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You know you're all right, Lopunny's not really worth it in OU. Due to the numerous annoying and bulky walls running rampant in OU, I thought Lopunny's speciallized nature for dealing with defensive and supportive Pokemon would be great and could carve itself a unique niche in OU, even most offensive teams have a wall or two. But yeah it's not that great against offensive teams generally and more often than not will disappoint against said teams.
So please enough talk about Lopunny, it's just taking up space for more viable OU candidates. I guess when the official xy tier list comes out I can make an RU moveset for Lopunny. :P
Why are people even talking about reserving things for the sake of it. I speak on behalf of the QC team when I say that Lopunny is not getting an analysis.
You should probably wait until NU for that. It is very shakey in RU as it is, and I don't ever see it carving a niche in that tier at any time in the forseeable future.
The fact that Lopunny holds AV means that Pokemon who can run AV more effectively won't be able to be used due to item clause, such as Conkeldurr, Tyranitar, and Goodra.
Okay, so I tested Porygon-Z in OU and it actually worked very well. Scarfed Porygon-Z was a bit underwhelming, but I tried a Choice Specs set and it's power became quite... I'm not sure how to put it. The only thing I can really say is that it felt OU worthy. Download is actually a great ability on Porygon-Z and when it gets the boost in SpA, something on the other side of the field is going to go down (aside from the pink blobs, Assault Vest Snorlax, and potentially a few others). With the boost to SpA, it 2HKO's Assault Vest Goodra with Ice Beam, it has an 18.8% chance to OHKO Aegislash with Dark Pulse, a 50% chance to OHKO Assault Vest Conkeldurr with Tri Attack (Porygon-Z gets Psychic), it 2HKO's Ferrothorn with Hidden Power Fighting, it 2HKO's Mega Scizor with Thunderbolt and Dark Pulse, it 2HKO's Heatran with Hidden Power Fighting, it 2HKO's Rotom-W with Tri Attack, it 2HKO's Mega Venusaur with Tri Attack (Porygon-Z gets Psychic), and it has a 96.5% chance to 2HKO Sylveon with Tri Attack after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Do I even need to say anything else about this guy? Yes, its reliance on that download boost hinder it greatly, but with a good amount of defensive OU pokemon such as Zapdos, Mandibuzz and Gliscor, it can find a chance to switch in and wreck havoc. It's relatively easy to find a partner for this guy. Conkeldurr, Lucario, and Terakion all make good partners for Porygon-Z as they deal with the pink blobs rather easily and annihilate Assault Vest Snorlax.
I'd also like to point out that Porygon-Z has access to Psyshock. With this, it has an 89.1% chance to 2HKO Blissey and it 2HKO's Assault Vest Snorlax. All of the above calculations were done using a Timid Porygon-Z with Choice Specs after a download boost to Special Attack. Modest Porygon-Z guarantees OHKO's and 2HKO's on key pokemon like Blissey, Conkeldurr, and Sylveon and gets a 75% chance to OHKO Aegislash with Dark Pulse. The biggest problems for Porygon-Z would be its Speed stat and its low defensive stats. A Speed Stat of 90 leave it outpaced by a large majority of the OU tier and almost forces it to run a Timid Nature. The biggest selling point for Porygon-Z would be how difficult it would be to get a pokemon like Talonflame or Greninja out to oppose the Porygon-Z, as Thunderbolt easily OHKO's them. Another great thing to point out about Porygon-Z is its wide variety of moves, creating unpredictability. This also allows it to fit into teams that need one or two of its coverage moves. Porygon-Z also has the great Bolt Beam combination, allowing it to get a lot of neutral and super effective hits. Porygon-Z, in my opinion, is one of the best wall breakers in the game. Any feedback would be nice. If Porygon-Z does indeed get an analysis, I would like to reserve it if that is acceptable.
Okay, so I tested Porygon-Z in OU and it actually worked very well. Scarfed Porygon-Z was a bit underwhelming, but I tried a Choice Specs set and it's power became quite... I'm not sure how to put it. The only thing I can really say is that it felt OU worthy. Download is actually a great ability on Porygon-Z and when it gets the boost in SpA, something on the other side of the field is going to go down (aside from the pink blobs, Assault Vest Snorlax, and potentially a few others). With the boost to SpA, it 2HKO's Assault Vest Goodra with Ice Beam, it has an 18.8% chance to OHKO Aegislash with Dark Pulse, a 50% chance to OHKO Assault Vest Conkeldurr with Tri Attack (Porygon-Z gets Psychic), it 2HKO's Ferrothorn with Hidden Power Fighting, it 2HKO's Mega Scizor with Thunderbolt and Dark Pulse, it 2HKO's Heatran with Hidden Power Fighting, it 2HKO's Rotom-W with Tri Attack, it 2HKO's Mega Venusaur with Tri Attack (Porygon-Z gets Psychic), and it has a 96.5% chance to 2HKO Sylveon with Tri Attack after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Do I even need to say anything else about this guy? Yes, its reliance on that download boost hinder it greatly, but with a good amount of defensive OU pokemon such as Zapdos, Mandibuzz and Gliscor, it can find a chance to switch in and wreck havoc. It's relatively easy to find a partner for this guy. Conkeldurr, Lucario, and Terakion all make good partners for Porygon-Z as they deal with the pink blobs rather easily and annihilate Assault Vest Snorlax. I'd also like to point out that Porygon-Z has access to Psyshock. With this, it has an 89.1% chance to 2HKO Blissey and it 2HKO's Assault Vest Snorlax. All of the above calculations were done using a Timid Porygon-Z with Choice Specs after a download boost to Special Attack. Modest Porygon-Z guarantees OHKO's and 2HKO's on key pokemon like Blissey, Conkeldurr, and Sylveon and gets a 75% chance to OHKO Aegislash with Dark Pulse. The biggest problems for Porygon-Z would be its Speed stat and its low defensive stats. A Speed Stat of 90 leave it outpaced by a large majority of the OU tier and almost forces it to run a Timid Nature. The biggest selling point for Porygon-Z would be how difficult it would be to get a pokemon like Talonflame or Greninja out to oppose the Porygon-Z, as Thunderbolt easily OHKO's them. Another great thing to point out about Porygon-Z is its wide variety of moves, creating unpredictability. This also allows it to fit into teams that need one or two of its coverage moves. Porygon-Z also has the great Bolt Beam combination, allowing it to get a lot of neutral and super effective hits. Porygon-Z, in my opinion, is one of the best wall breakers in the game. Any feedback would be nice. If Porygon-Z does indeed get an analysis, I would like to reserve it if that is acceptable.
Also, Adaptability is generally, the better ability, but download has it's niches to. Adaptability is great if you like spamming tri attack, giving a 50% boost to Normal Type moves no matter what. Download, however, can give a 50% boost to all moves, but porygon-z has to switch in on the right pokemon for it to be effective.
Also, Adaptability is generally, the better ability, but download has it's niches to. Adaptability is great if you like spamming tri attack, giving a 50% boost to Normal Type moves no matter what. Download, however, can give a 50% boost to all moves, but porygon-z has to switch in on the right pokemon for it to be effective.
Adaptability leaves it walled by Aegislash and, well, every bulky Ghost type. And I'm sorry... if it does get accepted, then you can take it, but I'd also like to know that if I handed it over to you, you'd have a general understanding of Porygon-Z and why it would be worth using in OU.
Adaptability leaves it walled by Aegislash and, well, every bulky Ghost type. And I'm sorry... if it does get accepted, then you can take it, but I'd also like to know that if I handed it over to you, you'd have a general understanding of Porygon-Z and why it would be worth using in OU.
How does adaptability make porygon-z walled by Ghost types? Shadow Ball can be used on every set fyi. Anyways it probs won't get accepted anyway, but it's a unique pokemon, definitely.
Just noticed Jolteon has been rejected from OU. Can someone tell me why? I mean, Jolteon has an amazing speed stat that can outspeed new threats such as Greninja, Talonflame and Noivern and can hit hard with specs, even has access to volt switch. The buff to ghost means Jolteon's shadow ball is more useful. I would've thought Jolteon's viability would have increased this gen, not decreased, so what gives?
Jolteon was always a pretty terrible Pokemon in BW2 OU, and XY OU hasn't really done much to change it. In fact, it has faced even more stiff competition and there is very little reason you'd want to use it in a serious team. It has overall mediocre stats (with Speed being the only exception) and can't really wallbreak or sweep. Moreover, in a metagame with more emphasis on bulk and priority, Jolteon struggles to make much of an impact compared to in the BW era. Finally, Jolteon's movepool is pretty tiny and its coverage moves are overall weak. Hidden Power Ice, Signal Beam, and Shadow Ball aren't particularly strong, nor will they be breaking any Pokemon. On top of that, Jolteon fails to be a good revenge killer to the top boosting threats in the metagame, such as Mega Charizard X and Mega Tyranitar. It is a pretty terrible mon and really doesn't deserve an analysis.
I hate to say it like this, but if you're just trying to justify a bad Pokemon's worth in OU for the sake of it, please reconsider your actions. If you really want to contribute to C&C, perhaps join up with UU comes around or comment positively on existing analyses. I have a feeling that people aren't even trying these Pokemon before suggesting them.
Just noticed Jolteon has been rejected from OU. Can someone tell me why? I mean, Jolteon has an amazing speed stat that can outspeed new threats such as Greninja, Talonflame and Noivern and can hit hard with specs, even has access to volt switch. The buff to ghost means Jolteon's shadow ball is more useful. I would've thought Jolteon's viability would have increased this gen, not decreased, so what gives?
Actually, you made a good point there. Jolteon serves as a good pokemon to stop Talonflame as it out-speeds and Jolteon can take a Brave Bird and OHKO Talonflame with Thunderbolt. I think it was rejected because Mega Manectric exists. Mega Manectric has much better stats overall; it's faster and sports a larger Special Attack stat while also having the ability Intimidate. No offense, but I would recommend doing some research on the pokemon before even considering to post about it.
How does adaptability make porygon-z walled by Ghost types? Shadow Ball can be used on every set fyi. Anyways it probs won't get accepted anyway, but it's a unique pokemon, definitely.
Well, the bulky Ghost type thing was a terrible example, but you miss out on a lot of 2HKO's by using Adaptability.
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 243-287 (34 - 40.1%) -- 40.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 191-225 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 151-178 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 191-225 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Just a few calculations. I will agree by saying that Adaptability is a lot more reliable in comparison to Download, but the difference in power really shows itself in the calculations above.
Edit: I actually used it in OU throughout the day and I have to say I was very impressed. There's a good chance of it getting an analysis in my honest opinion. I really don't think any pokemon can do what Porygon-Z is capable of doing and that in itself gives it a niche in OU. The question here is whether or not that niche gives it enough viability to be accepted.
The reason Jolteon didn't recieve an analysis is that it is outclassed by Manectric who has a higher special attack stat (after mega evolution), a better ability for an offensive pokemon (prior to mega evolution), better bulk due to Intimidate and all of this at the cost of one measly base stat point in speed. The only role that Jolteon can do that Manectric can't is SubPass (and maybe AgilityPass, but that is done better by both Ninjask AND Scolipede anyway due to Speed Boost) and the only reason it even remotely works in that role is due to its blazing speed.
As for PorygonZ, Adaptability is best left for UU on this thing. It needs a Special Attack boost from Download to deal decent damage with its other moves and Adaptability gets rid of that. Furthermore, if you're Choice locked, you aren't going to be able to Scarf PorygonZ is pretty underwhealming this gen outside of UU due to the bulky-offensive nature of the OU tier and the introduction of Assault Vest making a load of pokemon, such as Conkeldurr and Machamp, much better than they already were. However, in a metagame where nigh-every pokemon is carrying Knock Off, this very item-reliant pokemon is suddenly crippled, meaning that many common users - even ones which you can handle otherwise, such as Mandibuzz - have suddenly become checks to PorygonZ unless it has reached a point where it has completed its job. Scarf PorygonZ is underwhealming even when it does get a Special Attack boost and its unattractive speed tier make running Specs that much harder, although Specs is certainly the most viable set for it as it needs the power provided. Furthermore, in a metagame where at least one of Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Aerilate Quick Attack or Brave Bird is on practically every team, PorygonZ's roll has just got that much harder. Generally speaking, PorygonZ is outshined in OU by its younger brother Mallard Duck Porygon2 as it has better bulk and similar offensive stats, but I think that Specs has just enough viability to justify an analysis as a +1 Choice Specs Tri Attack is going to hurt. If it were to get an analysis, it would have one set on it:
However, I would question who would do the analysis after the same person who suggested it said that it should run Shadow Ball over Dark Pulse and that Adaptability doesn't leave you walled by bulky ghosts as, even when you predict correctly...
All Out Attacker Aegislash
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 190-224 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Swords Dance Aegislash
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 190-224 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and that is for the non-bulky sets (before you say "who runs those?" read the analysis). If you are running Shadow Ball, they can switch out to a Normal-type and force PorygonZ out, which is why it is not listed. If they get in for free...
All Out Attacker Aegislash
4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 248-292 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Swords Dance Aegislash
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 322-380 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There is no difference between damage with 4 in HP and in SpD. 4HP means that Porygon can only switch into SR 4 times rather than 5, hense why SpD is on the set up top. Now onto Download.
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 282-334 (107.6 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 282-334 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
And the bulky ghost problem is solved. They can very rarely come in, and if the latter switches in it then can't stay in. Now I'm just going to do a load of random PZ calcs.
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 211-250 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Conkeldurr can't switch in safely and Mach Punch doesn't OHKO, and when PorygonZ predicts and goes for Psyshock, +1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 420-496 (119.6 - 141.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - trolololololol...
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 220-259 (68.1 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Same situation as Conkeldurr, except it can KO back and outpace with or without scarf.
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 268-316 (90.2 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO - OHKO if Charizard has not mega evolved yet or if Mega Charizard Y switches in and Porygon got the +1 SpA boost, using Thunderbolt predicting Mega Charizard Y switch in
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 286-338 (79.2 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - once again, OHKO after a prior boost.
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 1040-1224 (247.6 - 291.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Tank Garchomp doesn't stand a chance when predicted, and when it isn't... +1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 346-408 (82.3 - 97.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - PZ outpaces and KOs with a second Tri Attack... if Garchomp actually survives the hit in the first place.
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
It's frail but powerful. I'm still unsure whether it should get an analysis.
some calcs:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 328-387 (101.8 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 309-367 (101.6 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 398-471 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 361-426 (91.6 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 322-380 (105.9 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 299-354 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 442-520 (106.7 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 278-330 (70.5 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 90-107 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 221-260 (57.5 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There's no way Porygon-Z is happening. I'm not explaining this because it's frankly a waste of time; you clearly have no clue if you think Porygon-Z is good in OU.
Adding on to what Jukain said, you can make calculations all day, but they're not sufficient enough on their own to justify using a Pokemon, it's all in theory (particularly when you're assuming every perfect condition to occur). Replays are worth much more when it comes to understanding how a Pokemon fares in the metagame. I'm not saying to go out and collect a bunch of half-assed replays about Porygon-Z against incompetent opponents, either. I'm talking about higher-level competitive battles that actually contribute to the tier. Furthermore, I don't wish to be mean, but I'm not getting the feeling that most of you actually understand the metagame enough. Examples like Blissey and Assault Vest Snorlax come up way too often for me to take some of you seriously.
There is a huge difference between "I can find a niche set for this seldom-seen Pokemon" and "I would take this into a serious, competitive match with the intent to win." Please learn this difference and post accordingly.
Please think before you post any more suggestions on this thread. You know who you are.
And again, if you want to contribute, PLEASE spend your time contributing to the threads we already have going, NOT begging to reserve an analysis for a shitty Pokemon.
I wasn't going for the analysis myself. I have used it a bit to know what is good and what is not, but I do not have sufficient experience using it to write a full analysis. If someone gets good replays for it - ie good enough for QC - they can take it. But atm the evidence, while kind of solid, is still fairly liquid. Its usefulness on a team has diminished this gen, so even when I was writing about what is good for it I was still very iffy about it.
Edit: Add the following to the list of rejected pokemon:
Flareon
Alomomola
PorygonZ
Lopunny
Furret (indirectly rejected in a Lopunny response)
Quality Control - Quality Control Ready: In the thread title, include [QC: 0/4]. The skeleton is complete in bullet point form and now needs to seek approval by the QC Team. Make sure you update the thread title with the number of QC checks you currently have. ONLY WHEN YOU REACH THREE QC APPROVALS MAY YOU BEGIN WRITING THE ANALYSIS IN PARAGRAPH FORM, OTHERWISE THE ANALYSIS REMAINS IN BULLET POINTS. YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FOURTH QC CHECK UNTIL THE ANALYSIS IS WRITTEN.
Galvantula? Nooooooooooooooooooooo. Makes sense though as it's only niche in OU is sticky web, and is outclassed as a sticky webber be Smeargle and Shuckle. Don't worry galv ur still cool :)
