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XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
Thanks lol but right now it's a little too early, I haven't contributed enough to C&C yet. I'm also kind of inexperienced with the current metagame.
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I was honestly surprised, I didn't think Seismitoad had what it takes. Good job! :)
Do any of you think Chatot is viable in OU? I haven't tried it myself but it seems interesting with access to nasty plot, STAB boomburst and STAB chatter. Chatter's side effect could also bring opportunities to set up nasty plots. It's certainly no Exploud, with a sparce movepool and essentially useless abilities, but I do see some light with access to nasty plot. Some calcs:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 442-523 (106.7 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 489-577 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 298-352 (42.3 - 50%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock!!!!!!!!!!
That's right, it 2HKO's Chansey.
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Stats are bad in every way and it will die before it does anything nope. NP doesn't matter when it's just going to die.
To add onto that, Chatot is actually walled by Chansey, since it usually runs 4 HP / 252 SpDef now.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 239-282 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And add on how terribly frail it is, to the point where it can almost never set up... Not worth it in the slightest.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 239-282 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And add on how terribly frail it is, to the point where it can almost never set up... Not worth it in the slightest.
Also, Chatter is weak and unreliable. Chansey isn't 2HKOed with the current spread (4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD) and it is outclassed as a Boomburst user by Exploud and even Swellow due to the former's higher power and the latters highers speed (and power before a Nasty Plot).
Just outplay the coin flip...
I am not saying chatot should get an analysis (although exploud got an analysis and chatot is literally a faster exploud with a worse movepool) but that is total bullshit.
exploud has base 91 special attack, while chatot has base 92
swellow has BASE 50 SPECIAL ATTACK. he is not a good user of boomburst at all
Chatot is garbage and is not getting an analysis... How many more threads will there be on this. Pretty sure if you can't come up with a solid arguement to use it you shouldn't be posting here
Dropping Darmanitan. Too busy IRL.
I have no problem taking over Darmanitan (but I thought QC was going to reject it?)
Darn it you greninja'd me by like 4 minutes
If RotomPoison doesn't want it, I'll take it over, otherwise RotomPoison can have it
Guys seriously. Quit fucking asking for random shit to get an analysis. If something is viable enough to get an analysis, it would have probably already gotten one by now. This thread isn't supposed to be treated about discussing the viability of Pokemon, it's to reserve Pokemon that NEED an analysis. If you MUST vouch for a Pokemon to get an analysis, it would be very wise have mid-higher ladder replays where you actually show it being useful instead of just a stupid tl;dr where you describe irrelevantly specific scenarios or incredibly niche reasons to use the Poke.
I just can't fathom how anybody in the right mind how has actually played a decent ladder match would find complete garbage OU Pokemon like Lopunny and Chatot worthy of an analysis. If you're not going to back up your nomination with solid evidence, there is absolutely no need to bring it up and derail this entire thread.
I just can't fathom how anybody in the right mind how has actually played a decent ladder match would find complete garbage OU Pokemon like Lopunny and Chatot worthy of an analysis. If you're not going to back up your nomination with solid evidence, there is absolutely no need to bring it up and derail this entire thread.
RotomPoison You can have Darmanitan, but it's under intense criticism and scrutiny at the moment, so if you're willing to fight and argue for its analysis with good knowledge of how to use it, go for it.
And to add onto Gary2346's post, here's a way of thinking about things: rather than ask yourself "Could X be viable in OU?," you have to proclaim that "X IS viable in OU." And if you're confident about the latter, give reasons why, go down the Viability Ranking list and tell us how a certain threat does against common and good threats in OU. So yeah. Please. I'd be happy to do more "cleaning up," but at the moment it's not cool.
And to add onto Gary2346's post, here's a way of thinking about things: rather than ask yourself "Could X be viable in OU?," you have to proclaim that "X IS viable in OU." And if you're confident about the latter, give reasons why, go down the Viability Ranking list and tell us how a certain threat does against common and good threats in OU. So yeah. Please. I'd be happy to do more "cleaning up," but at the moment it's not cool.
Remember, guys, the current policy on things getting analyses isn't "Is this viable?", but rather "Would this Pokemon be consistently successful against skilled opponents?" A tiny niche is not enough, being usable is not enough, it has to work consistently against people that know what they're doing.
So since Darmanitan got 1 rejection, I would like to raise some points in its defense and see if QC will reconsider, and if they do, I will finish the analysis.
Key reasons to use Darmanitan are the fact it is, of course, very strong. It can singlehandedly dismantle every common Defog user while outspeeding them if it holds a Choice Scarf, which it does not mind thanks to its access to U-turn to gain momentum as well.
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-191 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Latios has no hope of switching in. Due to this alone, Darmanitan is an excellent choice on hyper offense because it threatens every relevant hazard remover in OU. (barring Rapid Spin Kabutops, who it is possible to spinblock against should it come to this, which is not terrible as Aegislash fits into hyper offense very well)
Darmanitan also has access to moves such as Rock Slide, which if running a Jolly nature, allows it to revenge Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance boost if it is Adamant.
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 206-244 (69.1 - 81.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Stealth Rock is, of course, going to be present on hyper offense, and considering Flare Blitz recoil, it's not hard to knock it into revenge kill range. Darmanitan also has a reliable tool to beat Heatran in Superpower, doing a ton of damage which Heatran can not just shrug off, and Heatran can not OHKO back.
Now to answer your points:
I wouldn't call this a tiny niche. Bisharp may threaten to sweep teams after recieving a Defiant boost, Darmanitan can threaten the opposing team while keeping hazards up, and again, is a good revenge killer. It does have a problem against Rain Offense, which is a very powerful team archetype in the metagame, but so do a lot of Pokemon, and that's what teammates are for. Darmanitan also has decent synergy with, should it not be run on hyper offense, many Defoggers. Latios is immune to Ground-type moves, and depending on the chosen coverage check Pokemon such as Sand Rush Excadrill if it switches into Earthquake. It also resists Water, most notably both STABs of Rotom-W, while not minding Will-O-Wisp as much, as Darmanitan obviously would not risk switching into Will-O-Wisp against Rotom-W.
Key problems which prevent it from being better:
- High HP, low defenses, nice for getting off an extra Flare Blitz, not for taking an emergency Quick Attack from Pinsir.
- Bad defensive typing, it shouldn't be taking hits regardless
- If run on hyper offense, it is not possible to pair it with Defog, as this is counterproductive, fair point, as it has bad synergy with Excadrill for the most part
As a wallbreaker, Darmanitan suffers competition mainly from Charizard Y, who has even worse defensive typing but somewhat better coverage. Darmanitan can hold an item however, and can maintain momentum, while simultainously threatening Pokemon like Charizard X, something Charizard Y just can not do.
I hope this has at least considered the QC team to try out Darmanitan some more. If you need more evidence or arguement I would be happy to provide them.
Key reasons to use Darmanitan are the fact it is, of course, very strong. It can singlehandedly dismantle every common Defog user while outspeeding them if it holds a Choice Scarf, which it does not mind thanks to its access to U-turn to gain momentum as well.
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-191 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Latios has no hope of switching in. Due to this alone, Darmanitan is an excellent choice on hyper offense because it threatens every relevant hazard remover in OU. (barring Rapid Spin Kabutops, who it is possible to spinblock against should it come to this, which is not terrible as Aegislash fits into hyper offense very well)
Darmanitan also has access to moves such as Rock Slide, which if running a Jolly nature, allows it to revenge Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance boost if it is Adamant.
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 206-244 (69.1 - 81.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Stealth Rock is, of course, going to be present on hyper offense, and considering Flare Blitz recoil, it's not hard to knock it into revenge kill range. Darmanitan also has a reliable tool to beat Heatran in Superpower, doing a ton of damage which Heatran can not just shrug off, and Heatran can not OHKO back.
Now to answer your points:
I wouldn't call this a tiny niche. Bisharp may threaten to sweep teams after recieving a Defiant boost, Darmanitan can threaten the opposing team while keeping hazards up, and again, is a good revenge killer. It does have a problem against Rain Offense, which is a very powerful team archetype in the metagame, but so do a lot of Pokemon, and that's what teammates are for. Darmanitan also has decent synergy with, should it not be run on hyper offense, many Defoggers. Latios is immune to Ground-type moves, and depending on the chosen coverage check Pokemon such as Sand Rush Excadrill if it switches into Earthquake. It also resists Water, most notably both STABs of Rotom-W, while not minding Will-O-Wisp as much, as Darmanitan obviously would not risk switching into Will-O-Wisp against Rotom-W.
Key problems which prevent it from being better:
- High HP, low defenses, nice for getting off an extra Flare Blitz, not for taking an emergency Quick Attack from Pinsir.
- Bad defensive typing, it shouldn't be taking hits regardless
- If run on hyper offense, it is not possible to pair it with Defog, as this is counterproductive, fair point, as it has bad synergy with Excadrill for the most part
As a wallbreaker, Darmanitan suffers competition mainly from Charizard Y, who has even worse defensive typing but somewhat better coverage. Darmanitan can hold an item however, and can maintain momentum, while simultainously threatening Pokemon like Charizard X, something Charizard Y just can not do.
I hope this has at least considered the QC team to try out Darmanitan some more. If you need more evidence or arguement I would be happy to provide them.
You provide a decent argument, but just a few nitpicks:
Replays, against skilled players, are far more convincing than theorymonning. Provide us with a replay of darmanitan doing something significant that no other pokemon in OU could do and it would strengthen your argument a lot more.
Secondly,
People think that you suck defensively if you're weak to rocks or something, i dunno why, but that simply isn't the case. Fire/flying is an excellent defensive typing with resistances to fighting, fairy, grass, fire, bug, and steel, all with an immunity to ground. Sure, rocks hurt, but you have a really nice collection of resistances to work with here!
Comparing Darmanitan to char-y in general is sorta dumb. Char-y is a wallbreaker, and the role that you are saying darmanitan plays here is a choice scarf revenge killer/cleaner (because let's be honest, scarf darmanitan is not denting a proper stall.) It's inefficient to compare two pokemon which perform different roles. It's like saying scarf azelf is better than mega gardevoir because its faster and can maintain momentum.
The rest of what you say is pretty valid, but make smarter comparisons and show replays :]
Fire/Flying isn't that amazing. You're weak to Water, Electric, and Rock, which is a lot more important than a few small resistances like Grass. Going to add some replays though definitely. Comparing it to Char-Y was because both are powerful but Charizard can't hold an item and has a harder time keeping momentum. I know Scarf Darmanitan is technically a revenge killer but it's still a somewhat solid wallbreaker.
I was asking EVERYONE ELSE in this thread if THEY thought Chatot was viable. I didn't think Chatot was viable to be honest, but other mons managed to be accepted into OU that I thought wouldn't be able to (such as Seismitoad and Omastar), so I thought I'd ask others if they thought it was viable, because the same thing could have happened to Chatot (where I didn't think it was viable but actually was). If it's not viable like I originally thought, that's fine by me. Oh yeah, I think we can ALL agree that Lopunny is garbage in OU. :)
Please don't do this anymore. It's extremely pointless and it just clogs up the thread.
Just posting to say I support Darmanitan receiving an analysis, but RotomPoison, I'm a little concerned by your arguments. Darmanitan isn't good because it threatens hazard removers... it's good because under sunlight it's literally the most stupidly powerful thing you could use. Don't expect it to live long, but don't expect anything to safely switch into it, either.
The other weird thing about your argument is that Darmanitan faces no competition from Mega Charizard Y because you should always run both of them on the same team, because Darmanitan under sunlight is stupidly powerful. For reference, after a single layer of spikes and stealth rock, 252 HP Azumarill stands a chance to be OHKO'd by Flare Blitz. I'm not saying that fully sun-based teams are a good idea, but running Mega Charizard Y in conjunction with Darmanitan is an extremely potent combo.
My argument for Darmanitan getting an analysis is not only that it is stupidly powerful under sunlight, however. It's also the fact that outside of sunlight, it's still useful, which most sun-aided Pokemon cannot attest to. Flare Blitz is still extremely powerful, and Darmanitan gets excellent coverage moves as well as U-turn, which is a huge boon. It's a massively powerful hole-puncher AND late-game sweeper that I myself underestimated until I tried it out for myself.
Yes. I expanded more on its utility to hyper offense than sun in general, but I agree with everything else you said. The only thing is that it does threaten all hazard removers in addition to being an excellent wallbreaker under sun. I mentioned it had competiton because even though you'll usually be using both on the same team, they do have a similar role. They do work very well together, they just face competition seperately.
you could always see the analyses of pokemon you doubt should get an analysis yourself. If it's a rather questionable pokemon, like seismitoad, the analysis will heavily stress its niche in the metagame, and seismitoad's niche of beating electric types while being on a rain team is a solid enough niche to get an analysis. You will see that this is emphasized throughout the analysis as it should be.
I completely agree with CyclicCompound, the combination of Charizard and Darmanitan is extremely powerful, as Charizard Y OHKOes or 2HKOes most of the bulky Water-types Darm struggles with, while obviously powering up its STAB. This is definitely a niche other wall breakers such as Kyurem-B and Landorus-I can't fulfill, therefore I think Darm deserves an analysis, but the writer should stress that sun support is necessary, as well as hazard removal.
If Darm gets an analysis, I would like to reserve it if RotomPoison doesn't want it
Darmanitan is useful for its rediculous attack stat and decent speed stat. Its Flare Blitz outdamages Victini's V-Create after Sheer Force, it has access to useful moves for coverage like Rock Slide and Superpower and it can scout with U-Turn. It works well in a core with sun setters like Mega Charizard Y and the (now rejected) Ninetales. It does, however, require Defog or Rapid Spin support due to its weakness, likely use of U-Turn and its extreme frailty which hold it back greatly, but, given said support, it becomes a force to be reckoned with. Its best set is probably the choice scarf set as it is a brilliant cleaner/sweeper, but I personally prefer using the wallbreaker set.
Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Superpower
move 4: U-turn
ability: Sheer Force
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant
Wallbreaker
########
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Superpower
move 4: U-Turn
ability: Sheer Force
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly
I might take it if it hasn't been dibs'd yet. Will post replays later.
Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Superpower
move 4: U-turn
ability: Sheer Force
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant
Wallbreaker
########
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Superpower
move 4: U-Turn
ability: Sheer Force
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly
I might take it if it hasn't been dibs'd yet. Will post replays later.