Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Punchshroom]

He guarantees a spin only if he can predict the entry of a spin blocker.

For example, lets say excadrill is out against, say, Charizard.

Charizard fears the rock slide especially since, as he sees no air balloon, he knows its a scarf.

However seeing as he has a scarf, the first player knows he won't risk missing with rapid spin against his gengar, so he switches to a Pokemon that resists ground and rock, and now that excadrill must switch.

The above scenario is not the most eloquent but not rare either.

Offensive spinners rely on mind games whereas defensive spinners don't worry about that, they clear the hazards and let the sweepers in, as opposed to excadrill (and other offensive spinners) who need to play with lots of risk, to manipulate hazard clearing and balance that with sweeping.

Excadrill didn't get high usage because if his spinning capabilities, especially as Defog is a more reliable option. Excadrill gained the usage it did through its fantastic offensive capabilities and its ability, sand rush.

The fact that it can spin just adds a bit more utility to its role.

If Excadrill spins on a non-Balloon Aegislash switch, he can just respond by hammering it with EQ. Gengar would require a bit more prediction to catch on the switch, but Gengar does not like switching into anything but Rapid Spin, so it's risky for Gengar as well.

The Exca vs Charizard example is shaky, I wouldn't try to blow my Exca's cover just like that (it could be Life Orb or Assault Vest for all you know). Exca often tries this on Pokemon it can already threaten, such as Rotom-W, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Clefable.

Defensive spinners are used for their survivability, while offensive spinners are used for their ability to smash spinblockers and provide (mostly) uninterrupted spins. Defensive spinners may be 'safer', but they cannot get past spinblockers very easily; offensive sweepers are often preferred since they can provide more than just spinning: they also contribute with their powerful moves and usually don't kill offensive momentum, which is typically the kind of teams offensive spinners find themselves in.

Wrong. Excadrill is primarily used as a spinner first, powerful Ground attacker second. Most Excadrills don't even run Sand Rush in this Generation (they'd rather use Scarf), preferring Mold Breaker to get past bothersome abilities like Levitate (Excadrill's ability to KO Rotom-W easily is one of the reasons for its high use, not Sand Rush) or even Magic Bounce for Excadrills with Stealth Rock.

You misunderstood me. Excadrill doesn't initiate the mind games. It has to mind its step. Risk getting ko'd or possibly wasting a turn getting spin blocked. Those aren't games I wish I could participate in.

Who says Excadrill doesn't initiate mind games? If Excadrill is faster than your Ground- / Steel-weak pokemon, how can you tell it won't just attack you (which means your spinblocker is at risk) instead of going straight for the spin? It's not like it would have that much trouble with your spinblocker anyway should it not spin immediately, if you even have one.

 

[silfan]

You misunderstood me. Excadrill doesn't initiate the mind games. It has to mind its step. Risk getting ko'd or possibly wasting a turn getting spin blocked. Those aren't games I wish I could participate in.

I think you misunderstood the point. Excadrill as it is, is probably the only spinner with high chance of beating spinblocker and is therefore the most reliable/best spinner in OU.
I mean you can't argue Gengar or Aegislash can safely switch into Excadrill, can you? There are so many scenario you mentioned about Excadrill locked into specific moves, but guess what, Scarf is not the only item Excadrill can run. Scarf is just one of few viable options on it and makes him more threatening especially if you don't know what item it has.

Also, offensive spinner > defensive spinner in this meta as losing momentum is not a good idea with all those setup sweepers and volt switch/u-turn around.
When talking about defensive spinner, they are bulky for a reason, because if they are not bulky they would be useless.
Defensive spinner has a hard time beating spinblockers and thus, might need multiple try to switch in, i.e. needs to switch in and out a lot.
They are standing at even higher risk than Excadrill simply because you don't want to give common spinblockers free turn, especially not to Aegislash or Gengar.
The other risk is that opponent might not even need to bother about their SR and just switch in their setup sweeper. It's not fun to be a setup bait.
Even saying that, there are even less viable defensive spinners around, the most viable one probably is Tentacruel (Mega Blastoise has no recovery at all and IMO should go Bulky Offense Spinner). Tentacruel should always be careful of being used as a setup bait, especially against pokemon like Charizard X and Volcarona.
Toxic can sort of alleviate that, but it's still a big risk and not very reliable one at that.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Tentacruel can kinda beat Aegislash and Gengar with Knock Off/Scald, but Excadrill is still by far more reliable :D

 

[Baharoth]

One of the reasons I think that Conk is so dangerous in this current meta is that with AV he's one of the best existing checks to Thundurus(thundurbolt is a 3hko), Heatran (can't burn, fire blast/flamethrower/lava plume are all 3hko's) Sure he lacks reliable recovery, but he has better reliable recovery than every other Pokemon in A+ rank (excluding Mega- Venu, Talonflame and Kyu-B. who all get a 50% recovery move). 7 out of 10 of the mons in A+ rank get worse reliable recovery than Drain Punch provides Conk with. Therefore, I think it is a flawed argument to say that Conkeldurr shouldn't be A+ rank simply because he does not get the most reliable recovery available. Especially when his recovery options are greater than 70% of the A+ section.

I think he would fit nicely in the A+ section because of the power he has to make people think twice about switching, and his ability to check top threats this gen such as Thundurus and Heatran, which I mentioned above.

Most of the stuff that doesnt get good healing doesnt need it because its fast and powerfull. Conk is neither. Its slow as hell and its power is ok but not enough to hope to ohko or even 2hko much. Conk is supposed to take hits and status all the time and has no reliable way of recover the dmg taken, thats a rather big flaw.

Regarding that Excadrill discussion i just want to add that other spinners, especially the big bad D, are also easily capable of taking out Aegi and Gengar so Exca is by no means the only spinner that can beat them. Also from my experience, spinning with Excadrill is kinda risky most of the time because even the things he can outspeed and ohko can kill him in return if he goes for a spin instead of EQ. I lost count of the number of Excadrills that got killed by my Heatran because they tried to set SR or Spin on it assuming i would switch out. Yes in theory its risky for me as well but in practise it works like 90% of the time so... The number of things in the meta that CANT threaten Excadrill at all giving him a riskless spin is fairly low.

 

[epicdrill]

Regarding that Excadrill discussion i just want to add that other spinblockers, especially the big bad D, are also easily capable of taking out Aegi and Gengar so Exca is by no means the only spin blocker that can beat them. Also from my experience, spinning with Excadrill is kinda risky most of the time because even the things he can outspeed and ohko can kill him in return if he goes for a spin instead of EQ. I lost count of the number of Excadrills that got killed by my Heatran because they tried to set SR or Spin on it assuming i would switch out. Yes in theory its risky for me as well but in practise it works like 90% of the time so... The number of things in the meta that CANT threaten Excadrill at all giving him a riskless spin is fairly low.

How the fuck is Excadrill a spinblocker? Also, with Excadrill, you don't spin against something that commonly carries a SE move, you GTFO if it's faster or kill it if its slower and only if your opponent cannot afford to lose it and you outspeed should you attempt the spin.

 

[Colonial]

Most of the stuff that doesnt get good healing doesnt need it because its fast and powerfull. Conk is neither. Its slow as hell and its power is ok but not enough to hope to ohko or even 2hko much. Conk is supposed to take hits and status all the time and has no reliable way of recover the dmg taken, thats a rather big flaw.

Regarding that Excadrill discussion i just want to add that other spinblockers, especially the big bad D, are also easily capable of taking out Aegi and Gengar so Exca is by no means the only spin blocker that can beat them. Also from my experience, spinning with Excadrill is kinda risky most of the time because even the things he can outspeed and ohko can kill him in return if he goes for a spin instead of EQ. I lost count of the number of Excadrills that got killed by my Heatran because they tried to set SR or Spin on it assuming i would switch out. Yes in theory its risky for me as well but in practise it works like 90% of the time so... The number of things in the meta that CANT threaten Excadrill at all giving him a riskless spin is fairly low.

Personal experience is a bad indicator of viability. Your opponents not EQ'ing your Heatran is in no way an indicator of Excadrill's ability as a spinner, it just means that you outpredicted someone. Your point on how there are few pokemon that can do NOTHING to Excadrill is true, but what bearing that has comes down to the player, not the pokemon. As Epicdrill said, trying to spin against a Heatran isn't a brilliant idea, even if it can be a valid one.

Your first point confuses me. We aren't talking about fast pokemon, we're talking about a slow, very bulky attacker. Drain Punch is pretty good healing because of how much damage Conk deals with it. Conkeldurr has better recovery then just about any other AV mon, barring Regenerators. It's power is great considering it's using a 75 BP move, and what it doesn't kill is extremely unlikely to kill it back. Mach Punch can be used as a followup to avoid being hit a second time.

 

[Arcticblast]

Regarding that Excadrill discussion i just want to add that other spinblockers, especially the big bad D, are also easily capable of taking out Aegi and Gengar so Exca is by no means the only spin blocker that can beat them. Also from my experience, spinning with Excadrill is kinda risky most of the time because even the things he can outspeed and ohko can kill him in return if he goes for a spin instead of EQ. I lost count of the number of Excadrills that got killed by my Heatran because they tried to set SR or Spin on it assuming i would switch out. Yes in theory its risky for me as well but in practise it works like 90% of the time so... The number of things in the meta that CANT threaten Excadrill at all giving him a riskless spin is fairly low.

Donphan and Aegislash both take massive damage in a Donphan vs. Aegislash one on one - Quiet Aegislash takes an EQ (like 88% max from Adamant Donphan) and does massive damage with Shadow Ball in return. Adamant Excadrill avoids this by OHKOing Aegislash (needs some hazards or a damage boosting item - 80% min). Defensive Donphan poses little to no threat to a well built team with an EQ immunity anyway unless it's running suicide hazards (in which case it's HO and is probably running through you anyway).

 

[LoDart210]

I think you misunderstood the point. Excadrill as it is, is probably the only spinner with high chance of beating spinblocker and is therefore the most reliable/best spinner in OU.
I mean you can't argue Gengar or Aegislash can safely switch into Excadrill, can you? There are so many scenario you mentioned about Excadrill locked into specific moves, but guess what, Scarf is not the only item Excadrill can run. Scarf is just one of few viable options on it and makes him more threatening especially if you don't know what item it has.

Also, offensive spinner > defensive spinner in this meta as losing momentum is not a good idea with all those setup sweepers and volt switch/u-turn around.
When talking about defensive spinner, they are bulky for a reason, because if they are not bulky they would be useless.
Defensive spinner has a hard time beating spinblockers and thus, might need multiple try to switch in, i.e. needs to switch in and out a lot.
They are standing at even higher risk than Excadrill simply because you don't want to give common spinblockers free turn, especially not to Aegislash or Gengar.
The other risk is that opponent might not even need to bother about their SR and just switch in their setup sweeper. It's not fun to be a setup bait.
Even saying that, there are even less viable defensive spinners around, the most viable one probably is Tentacruel (Mega Blastoise has no recovery at all and IMO should go Bulky Offense Spinner). Tentacruel should always be careful of being used as a setup bait, especially against pokemon like Charizard X and Volcarona.
Toxic can sort of alleviate that, but it's still a big risk and not very reliable one at that.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Tentacruel can kinda beat Aegislash and Gengar with Knock Off/Scald, but Excadrill is still by far more reliable :D

I'm starting to get it. Like I said I think I've been arguing with a 5th gen state of mind.

While I still think being defensive is better for a spinner, between starmie and excadrill, I have to agree excadrill is better

 

[Baharoth]

Personal experience is a bad indicator of viability. Your opponents not EQ'ing your Heatran is in no way an indicator of Excadrill's ability as a spinner, it just means that you outpredicted someone. Your point on how there are few pokemon that can do NOTHING to Excadrill is true, but what bearing that has comes down to the player, not the pokemon. As Epicdrill said, trying to spin against a Heatran isn't a brilliant idea, even if it can be a valid one.

Your first point confuses me. We aren't talking about fast pokemon, we're talking about a slow, very bulky attacker. Drain Punch is pretty good healing because of how much damage Conk deals with it. Conkeldurr has better recovery then just about any other AV mon, barring Regenerators. It's power is great considering it's using a 75 BP move, and what it doesn't kill is extremely unlikely to kill it back. Mach Punch can be used as a followup to avoid being hit a second time.

It was just an example to show how difficult it is to find save spin opportunitys with Excadrill because so much stuff that sees high usage can do so much dmg to it.

Regarding my response to realythough, his argument was that most of A rank has no/bad recovery and therefor Conk deserves A+. Thats a flawed argument imo since most of the things in A and above dont realy need recovery but conk does. And no Drain Punch isnt good. He rarely gets opportunitys to use it and even if he does the amount of heal is rather low most of the time.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

It was just an example to show how difficult it is to find save spin opportunitys with Excadrill because so much stuff that sees high usage can do so much dmg to it.

Regarding my response to realythough, his argument was that most of A rank has no/bad recovery and therefor Conk deserves A+. Thats a flawed argument imo since most of the things in A and above dont realy need recovery but conk does. And no Drain Punch isnt good. He rarely gets opportunitys to use it and even if he does the amount of heal is rather low most of the time.

it's his main stab move

 

[Baharoth]

it's his main stab move

Yes and? Most of the time the opponent will switch out after conk got in and most of the time he will bring something that doesnt realy care about Drain Punch. The result, at least for me, is that i find myself using Knock off and Ice Punch much more than Drain Punch. The skill is simply not spamable.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Yes and? Most of the time the opponent will switch out after conk got in and most of the time he will bring something that doesnt realy care about Drain Punch. The result, at least for me, is that i find myself using Knock off and Ice Punch much more than Drain Punch. The skill is simply not spamable.

"I use moves that aren't my stab if the opponent resists my stab"
That goes for every pokemon ever, literally, every single one.

 

[Baharoth]

Yes, but most of them arent supposed to take hits and burn/poison dmg all the time without any recovery outside their stab. My point is that Conk would want to use Drain Punch much more often to recover lost health but he cant because a non braindead opponent will catch on and abuse it. That means he gets worn down faster than u would want him to and that means he doesnt deserve A+ at least not for me.

 

[Shady75]

I think what he means is Drain Punch doesn't have the Raw Power to be as easily spammable as a move like Close Combat or HJK.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

I wil say my part about Excadrill I actually used it, and it went to drop Rapid Spin for some point because I feel removing rocks aren't important (I don't have weak SR mons but I have 4 special sweepers and no Fire moves in my team). And trust me in saying that excadrill was generally the worst part of my team.

I can almost never switching it and trying to speed, because I have to know:
-That the pokemon isn't going to use a Fire, Water, Fighting moves before it switching it. And if you decide to not put the Balloon (I had to) Ground attacks. Those cases always apply unless pitful weak.
-That the pokemon doesn't get STAB Grass, Ice, Ghost and Dark attack in his moveset.
-That I'm not switching on a NVE attack with a mon with a Ground move in his set.

YOu can't reliably spin against this
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 225-266 (62.1 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither this (at +0)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 186-220 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither this
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 296-348 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The big problem of Excadrill is NOT spinblocking, specially if you don't use pokemon that lose 50% switching in. The problem is that there a lot of faster threats that has a super effective move or has an attack that doesn't resist.

As a sweeper, he is better but there's a OT of difference between BW Excadrill and XY Excadrill. 200 Base Speed is way different from 88 Base Speed.

 

[JASP01]

Havent heard this talked about yet-- How do you guys feel about Cresselia in OU? Niche? Able to compete? Strengths in -this- gen over others, and flaws? Think it could be higher than D tier?

 

[Taehl]

I wil say my part about Excadrill I actually used it, and it went to drop Rapid Spin for some point because I feel removing rocks aren't important (I don't have weak SR mons but I have 4 special sweepers and no Fire moves in my team). And trust me in saying that excadrill was generally the worst part of my team.

I can almost never switching it and trying to speed, because I have to know:
-That the pokemon isn't going to use a Fire, Water, Fighting moves before it switching it. And if you decide to not put the Balloon (I had to) Ground attacks. Those cases always apply unless pitful weak.
-That the pokemon doesn't get STAB Grass, Ice, Ghost and Dark attack in his moveset.
-That I'm not switching on a NVE attack with a mon with a Ground move in his set.

YOu can't reliably spin against this
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 225-266 (62.1 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither this (at +0)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 186-220 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither this
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 296-348 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The big problem of Excadrill is NOT spinblocking, specially if you don't use pokemon that lose 50% switching in. The problem is that there a lot of faster threats that has a super effective move or has an attack that doesn't resist.

As a sweeper, he is better but there's a OT of difference between BW Excadrill and XY Excadrill. 200 Base Speed is way different from 88 Base Speed.

I don't think you understand Exca doesn't get opportunities to spin because of it's bulk, but because it forces switches. Even though Pinsir can 2HKO Excadrill with return, it doesn't want to stay in because if fears rock slide, and that's when you spin.

 

[Colonial]

I wil say my part about Excadrill I actually used it, and it went to drop Rapid Spin for some point because I feel removing rocks aren't important (I don't have weak SR mons but I have 4 special sweepers and no Fire moves in my team). And trust me in saying that excadrill was generally the worst part of my team.

I can almost never switching it and trying to speed, because I have to know:
-That the pokemon isn't going to use a Fire, Water, Fighting moves before it switching it. And if you decide to not put the Balloon (I had to) Ground attacks. Those cases always apply unless pitful weak.
-That the pokemon doesn't get STAB Grass, Ice, Ghost and Dark attack in his moveset.
-That I'm not switching on a NVE attack with a mon with a Ground move in his set.

YOu can't reliably spin against this
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 225-266 (62.1 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither this (at +0)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 186-220 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither this
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 296-348 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The big problem of Excadrill is NOT spinblocking, specially if you don't use pokemon that lose 50% switching in. The problem is that there a lot of faster threats that has a super effective move or has an attack that doesn't resist.

As a sweeper, he is better but there's a OT of difference between BW Excadrill and XY Excadrill. 200 Base Speed is way different from 88 Base Speed.

So... don't switch a pokemon without any defensive investment in on some of the strongest attacks in the tier? This is not a flaw unique to Excadrill, in fact it's one you will find in any pokemon without investment. It's often pointed out that Exca is the best offensive spinner, not the best defensive one, so taking such powerful hits isn't really relevant because there is no reason for Excadrill to switch in on them.

 

[Vert]

More opinions:

Latios needs to be moved to A+. This thing provides a ridiculous amount of team support. It both wall-breaks essential things like Rotom-W and Heatran (EQ variants, but that's best kind) which end up getting hard walled by the two most powerful set-up sweepers in the metagame: Mega Charizard X and Mega Pinsir. In addition to that it can break past Blissey and tanks hits while either A, use Roost, or B, Defog hazards which are problems for many top tier threats. This thing is amazing and is so unpredictable because you do not know if that coverage move is a Surf to kill your Excadrill, an EQ to kill your Heatran, or even Hidden Power Fire to kill your Mega Scizor. Seriously, this thing is top tier. Choice Specs Latios is a fearsome wall-breaker and OHKOes - 2HKOesalmost everything non-Fairy. Calm Mind is a destructive set-up sweeper. And with Mega Latios coming soon, its ability to bluff sets is very valuable.

Skarmory needs to be moved to A. This is literally the best wall along with Mega Venusaur in OU. It walls a lot of threats like Mega Pinsir, SWords Dance Aegislash, Dragonite, etc., with ease and phazes them out like nothing. Rocky Helmet builds residual damage and it has Roost to heal ay damage. It even creates free turn which it can use to set up Spikes or just use Whirlwind and stack up hazard damage which can be major for thing like Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. It even has a strong Brave Bird meaning it can kill some weakened threats instead of phazing them out. This thing walls so much, it's unbelievable. Sadly, repeated special attacks will bring it down eventually.

Deoxys-D to A+. There really isn't much to say; it sets up hazards like a god and uses its bulk and speed to SPAM till it dies. Bulky sets don't play a t 6-5 disadvantage thanks to Recover, but its still on par with its Speed forme.

Greninja and Bisharp should be moved to A+. They are absolute god on HO teams. Bisharp goes in on Sticky Web or Defog, gets a +2 and forces threats out allowing it to get a +4 too. Then, it goes and sweeps teams. Iron Head annihilates Fairy-types and Sucker Punch and Knock Off are amazing due to the Steel-type nerf. Greninja a is a god too. It comes in, causes mind games and trashes everything and U-turns out. It can even set up SPikes, but I already talked about it in-depth in a previous post.

Regular Gyarados should stay in the same rank as Mega Gyarados. Regular Gyarados is hurt by Rotom-Wash, but other than that, it even has sets just as terrifying as Mega Gyarados. LO Moxie DD is one of the most powerful sets in the metagame and can screw weakened Rotom-W with Double-Edge edit: shit its illegal. In addition, SubDD also has it merits since it sets up easily with its amazing typing. The REstTalk set is good too but with Mega Lucario gone, its use has greatly diminished. It's still really powerful and deserves to stay in its current rank.

Can we please stop talking about Excadrill? It's clear that it's A-Rank. I has amazing typing, decent bulk, power, amazing utility, unpredictability, and great abilities; this makes it A-Rank.

 

[Assertingfire3]

I agree with skarmory moving to A rank

Skarmory is a premier physical with 140 defense stat. Skarmory is also capable of setting hazard. It also has roost for healing so that it can hold a rocky helmet for some residual damage. It can also whirlwind away sweepers boosts. It also a good counter to mega pinsir who is a prmier threat in the metagame.

 

[alexwolf]

LO Moxie DD is one of the most powerful sets in the metagame and can screw weakened Rotom-W with Double-Edge.

Minor nitpick, but Double-Edge is illegal with Moxie, which is a shame, because otherwise regular Normal Gem Gyarados would make for an excellent lure for Rotom-W.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Havent heard this talked about yet-- How do you guys feel about Cresselia in OU? Niche? Able to compete? Strengths in -this- gen over others, and flaws? Think it could be higher than D tier?

We unless you think it should be A or A-, which it isn't, it can't be talked about now. But I definitely think it is viable, and should be C ranked, especially since it has an analysis. Keep this in mind and nominate it when we're discussing the C's.

 

[Salemance]

Minor nitpick, but Double-Edge is illegal with Moxie, which is a shame, because otherwise regular Normal Gem Gyarados would make for an excellent lure for Rotom-W.

Really? well that's new to me.

Anyway, I'd like to resay that Bisharp is fine in A Rank. He is a powerful guy, but due to the fact that he is slow (a minor nitpick, but one non the less) and has un-reliable priority. The fact he does not carry some kind of priority better than Sucker Punch (which is great, but with other FASTER priority users running around, its a wonder if its worth it), can't see it going to A+ ranking.

 

[Aaron's Aron]

I am curious, what our your guy's opinion on Mega Scizor? I feel like he is pretty good, obviously, but I'm not sure id he should move or not. I know I didn't say much, but I'm really not sure at the moment...

 

[blazeVA]

A Rank seems to me fine for Mega Scizor. He does fulfill a few niches, such as a bulky Defogging and a powerful Swords Dance set. But it does have its issues, notably in that several Pokemon in the S and A rank can set up on it(both forms of Charizard, and even Aegislash if it runs HP Fire[something I should try at some point]). Skarmory doesn't fear it at all and can just phaze it out of its boosts, and bulkier spreads of Talonflame can keep even the SD versions in check. It's seems solid A rank.

 

[JASP01]

I am curious, what our your guy's opinion on Mega Scizor? I feel like he is pretty good, obviously, but I'm not sure id he should move or not. I know I didn't say much, but I'm really not sure at the moment...

Niche. Barely better than regular Scizor, and even then that's debatable. He uses up a mega slot. He's more of a set-up sweeper who can pivot, and less of a straight pivot/revenge killer.