Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[the-bumper-car]

Addressing your three points,

1. The very point of an offensive pivot is to be a faster threat and force a switch. Unlike defensive pivots like Rotom which take hits and bring in something safely.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/pokemon_dictionary#roles

(Yes it's a DP article, but what can we do?)

"A pivot is a Pokemon that is generally only used for switching. Due to good defensive stats and a solid defensive typing, they can usually take little damage as they switch in, and the opposing switch they force allows the player to switch again safely to another Pokemon. An offensive pivot will force a switch by threatening KO on the opponent, thus obtaining momentum, whereas a defensive pivot will be difficult to break past, and thus will slow the opponent's momentum."

I bolded all relevant parts. I think my calcs show that MegaMan does not have good defensive stats, neither does it take little damage (even factoring Intimidate!). It also can't threaten a KO on a large swath of the relevant offensive threats and risks being OHKO'd back (at full health!).

2. I think we can agree AV Excadrill is not as common as other sets, so along with Hippowdon I would put their combined usage at below 10%. If a scarfed Excadrill, Garchomp, or Lando-T come in on Volt Switch, it becomes fairly obvious that they're scarfed and a switch to something with ground immunity would EQ lock.

Yes, because it is TOTALLY obvious that a Pokemon is Scarfed, right? And your opponent is incapable of seeing you have a Ground-immune pokemon? Yeah, this is another case of "MegaMan's user has perfect prediction and his opponent doesn't."

Even if an AV Excadrill switches in, it would be assumed that it's either Scarfed or Bulky and Manectric would just switch out to something with ground immunity. In the course of the game, if it's found to be an AV, it just has to be dealt 25% by something else to strike it off as a Manectric check.

That still means that your statement "Groundtypes are afraid to switch into MegaMan" wrong, right? And your opponent won't see your switch to a Levitate pokemon (enjoy that Moldbreaker Earthquake!) or Rock Slide for a flying.

3. We're not talking about Chansey vs Mega-Manectric. Chansey gets forced out by Manectric's teammate after taking a Volt switch. With lack of leftovers, it's already below 70% after taking three of them. I believe it's common knowledge that Chansey doesnt like being below 70% when it's not in. This makes Mega Manectric better against Chansey than the hardest special hitters like Charizard Y since Chansey can use Softboiled after taking a Fire Blast. Also, the only way Chansey is ever going to land a Seismic Toss on Manectric is if it's down to just the two of them.

That situation isn't unique to Megaman - Rotom with Volt Switch can also do that.

After 3 Voltswitches, yes, Chansey would be below 70%, but nothing's stopping it from Softboiling on the Volt-switch.

 

[LightningLuxray]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/pokemon_dictionary#roles

(Yes it's a DP article, but what can we do?)

"A pivot is a Pokemon that is generally only used for switching. Due to good defensive stats and a solid defensive typing, they can usually take little damage as they switch in, and the opposing switch they force allows the player to switch again safely to another Pokemon. An offensive pivot will force a switch by threatening KO on the opponent, thus obtaining momentum, whereas a defensive pivot will be difficult to break past, and thus will slow the opponent's momentum."

I bolded all relevant parts. I think my calcs show that MegaMan does not have good defensive stats, neither does it take little damage (even factoring Intimidate!). It also can't threaten a KO on a large swath of the relevant offensive threats and risks being OHKO'd back (at full health!).



Yes, because it is TOTALLY obvious that a Pokemon is Scarfed, right? And your opponent is incapable of seeing you have a Ground-immune pokemon? Yeah, this is another case of "MegaMan's user has perfect prediction and his opponent doesn't."



That still means that your statement "Groundtypes are afraid to switch into MegaMan" wrong, right? And your opponent won't see your switch to a Levitate pokemon (enjoy that Moldbreaker Earthquake!) or Rock Slide for a flying.



That situation isn't unique to Megaman - Rotom with Volt Switch can also do that.

After 3 Voltswitches, yes, Chansey would be below 70%, but nothing's stopping it from Softboiling on the Volt-switch.

I agree; Mega Manectric is not a defensive pivot. 70/80/80 just isn't enough bulk, even with Intimidate. It's role is better defined as an offensive Check / Offensive pivot / Cleaner.

Also I think you're confused about the Chansey senario, it goes something like this:

Mega Manectric switches into something (Lets say Mandibuzz.) Mandibuzz obviously doesn't want to stay in, so it switches out into Chansey. Mega Manectric then Volt Switches out, doing a small amount of damage (~13% after Stealth Rock) and switches into something that can deal with Chansey (Lets say Terrakion). The opponent now has to switch out in fear of being OHKOd, and Chansey wasn't able to Soft Boiled. This allows for Mega Manectric to slowly whittle away at Chansey's health until a Thunderbolt will kill. Of course, this doesn't usually end up happening in a match, as Chansey can just come in on one of your other special attackers and Soft Boiled then. But at the very least, Mega Manectric is putting pressure on Chansey to heal itself.

Anyways I'm kind of starting to feel all this Mega Manectric discussion is getting slightly pointless... I mean people it's pretty obvious it's a ~B Pokemon, it just doesn't have the qualities to go anywhere near the likes of Chansey and Manaphy in A-. It's also is definitely good enough to not drop to C with the likes of Moltres lol. If you're going to discuss it, lets keep it in the B rankings, shall we?

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Yes, because it is TOTALLY obvious that a Pokemon is Scarfed, right? And your opponent is incapable of seeing you have a Ground-immune pokemon? Yeah, this is another case of "MegaMan's user has perfect prediction and his opponent doesn't."

If Excadrill or Lando-T or whatever is switching into Volt-Switch, and the opponent knows that Mega Man can OHKO them (because it basically runs one set and and one set only) there's good reason to suspect it's either scarfed or AV. It's not perfect prediction, it's just not being dumb.

That still means that your statement "Groundtypes are afraid to switch into MegaMan" wrong, right? And your opponent won't see your switch to a Levitate pokemon (enjoy that Moldbreaker Earthquake!) or Rock Slide for a flying.

OU has no shortage of good ground resists/immunes that can take on Excadrill. Such as, again, Lando-T.

 

[Rhaegar]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/pokemon_dictionary#roles

(Yes it's a DP article, but what can we do?)

"A pivot is a Pokemon that is generally only used for switching. Due to good defensive stats and a solid defensive typing, they can usually take little damage as they switch in, and the opposing switch they force allows the player to switch again safely to another Pokemon. An offensive pivot will force a switch by threatening KO on the opponent, thus obtaining momentum, whereas a defensive pivot will be difficult to break past, and thus will slow the opponent's momentum."

I bolded all relevant parts. I think my calcs show that MegaMan does not have good defensive stats, neither does it take little damage (even factoring Intimidate!). It also can't threaten a KO on a large swath of the relevant offensive threats and risks being OHKO'd back (at full health!).



Yes, because it is TOTALLY obvious that a Pokemon is Scarfed, right? And your opponent is incapable of seeing you have a Ground-immune pokemon? Yeah, this is another case of "MegaMan's user has perfect prediction and his opponent doesn't."



That still means that your statement "Groundtypes are afraid to switch into MegaMan" wrong, right? And your opponent won't see your switch to a Levitate pokemon (enjoy that Moldbreaker Earthquake!) or Rock Slide for a flying.



That situation isn't unique to Megaman - Rotom with Volt Switch can also do that.

After 3 Voltswitches, yes, Chansey would be below 70%, but nothing's stopping it from Softboiling on the Volt-switch.

You failed to bold "An offensive pivot will force a switch by threatening KO on the opponent, thus obtaining momentum" which I believe to be pretty relevant. I don't know if the part about taking hits referred to defensive pivots alone or pivots in general, but if it's the latter then that would mean that the meta is pretty much devoid of offensive pivots bar CB Scizor which in practice ends up being brought out less often than Megaman due to it's lower speed and limited coverage.

About the prediction, I doubt any person using scarfed Excadrill will risk double predicting and getting locked into Rock Slide or KOed by Overheat/Flamethrower. Also, Manectric won't be devoid of teammates. Landorus-T is a common VoltTurn Intimidate partner that takes both EQ and Rock Slide and easily switches in to any Excadrill variant.

I'm tired of comparisons with Rotom which is a defensive pivot. Rotom's Volt-Switch being slower and weaker often doesn't threaten anything enough for Chansey to be brought in against it in the first place. And no, Chansey can't Softboiled on the Volt Switch because it's coming in on the Volt Switch which would have otherwise outsped and killed/dented it's teammate.


In addition, however "Pivot" may be described by anyone, when Manectric is in, it generally doesn't let anything hit it due to it's great speed. When paired with a VoltTurn partner, it gets many opportunities to come in safely off it's teammates's U-Turn and proceed to threaten/Volt Switch. That would establish it as an effective pivot in my dictionary and in quite a few others' as well I believe. A good VoltTurn implementation can bring Manectric in 5+ times without a scratch apart from hazard damage which hardly slows it down. Defensive pivots on the other hand, lose their effectiveness with multiple switch-ins into hazards considering the hits they need to take.

 

[viperGTS]

Extreme bulk and offensive stats that allow it to do massive damage to offensive teams, great defensive and offensive typing, almost no counters, and even those "counters" are beaten by SubToxic variants. Extreme versatility as well; set including tank, SubToxic, Crumbler, SD, etc. Also fits onto all playstyles thanks to its great bulk and offenses. Also Balloon is great from stopping Excadrill from spinning on HO.

Thank you :)

 

[skies]

Ok, ok, ok, alright, alright, ok. Mega Manectric is not supposed to be breaking down all the walls, no Pokemon in the Metagame can just 2HKO and OHKO everything bar maybe M-Zard X, and none have the bulk to live every single hit, but Mega Manectric is supposed to come in ----> Intimidate ----> Volt Switch, not to break down everything in the tier. Infernape is a wallbreaker, Mega Manectric is an offensive pivot. Mega Manectric has 75 / 120 / 80 bulk, which I've mentioned many times, and yet everyone bashing it seems to overlook that it has 135 Speed and 135 Special Attack, and with a Lightningrod boost you hit 202 Special Attack. Mega Manectric is also most certainly a threat in this metagame, and posting calcs from S-B mean absolute nothing, as a.) it's very unlikely and b.) it will never be 1v1. If it faces something it doesn't like, it Volt Switches, if it faces a Ferrothorn or some shit, it Overheats, simple as that. I feel like you have not either not played with Mega Manectric enough or you have not played against it. I will post Mega Manectric replays if need be, it's really fucking good. I fail to see how it is not either B+ /A- / A. And I see the flaws, it is not as bulky as other defensive Pokemon (which you seem to insist it is) and it has to Mega Evolve first to be effective, which can be a pain. But Mega Manectric is an Offensive pivot, not a Defensive pivot, so stop comparing them, the only comparison between them is Electric-typing and Volt Switch, but Rotom-W is just meh, it has such a low HP and is now not hard to beat, the metagame adjusted around it.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Mega Manectric has 75 / 120 / 80 bulk,

Ummm what

It has 70 / 80 / 80 bulk according to Showdown....

 

[koista12]

I believe he was factoring in intimidate, though I don't think that's how it works.

 

[s_aman]

Ummm what

It has 70 / 80 / 80 bulk according to Showdown....

He means after taking intimidate into account.

EDIT : Ninjaed

 

[theV8man]

Mega-Man's bulk is really not that significant and shouldn't really be a topic of discussion. Even with intimidate, it's not impressive at all. He's not meant to take hits, he's meant to arrive on preferably a free switch, intimidate so a defensive pokemon can handle something or force a switch with its insane speed/good hitting power. Offensive support.

EDIT: I think A- is where it should be.

 

[Baharoth]

I am using Mega Man in my UU team and seriously, even there its underwhelming. Its extremely frail so it can only come in on predicted switches or resisted attacks (the attacking types he resists arent that common) or after something dies. And all it does afterwards is voltswitching back out. Its not like you can get him in over and over again with ease to wear something down, his ability to come in is very limited so he wont do much during the game. In UU its kinda ok to use him as there arent that many good Mega evolutions but in OU there are just so many better things to use so if someone realy needs an offensive pivot he would be better of using Raikou, Scarfed Rotom, offensive Zapdos or Thundy and have the mega slot free for something usefull.

B rank is fine for it imo, wouldnt mind a drop though. Moving it to A- is drasticly overrating its potential.

 

[Karxrida]

Mega-Man's bulk is really not that significant and shouldn't really be a topic of discussion. Even with intimidate, it's not impressive at all. He's not meant to take hits, he's meant to arrive on preferably a free switch, intimidate so a defensive pokemon can handle something or force a switch with its insane speed/good hitting power. Offensive support.

EDIT: I think A- is where it should be.

There a lot of things that do Mega Manectric's job better without requiring your Mega Slot. While I'm not saying it's unviable, it's outclassed by a lot and C-Rank is more fitting for it.

 

[MaoC]

I believe he was factoring in intimidate, though I don't think that's how it works.

Yeah. Assuming no other modifiers in play and no defensive investment its actually equivalent to about 130 base. It varies differently with other conditions though like existing boosts or whatever.

 

[theV8man]

There a lot of things that do Mega Manectric's job better without requiring your Mega Slot. While I'm not saying it's unviable, it's outclassed by a lot and C-Rank is more fitting for it.

What does it's job better? It's faster and has better coverage than every other fast electric type with volt switch AND gets intimidate... The only problem I see is that it takes up a mega slot.

 

[Bizdis]

Whilst Mega Manetric certainly isn't the strongest of OU pokemon, I feel like I should say it has utility on a rain HO team. It keeps momentum with Volt Switch, benefits slightly by having 100% accurate thunders as opposed to thunderbolts, and deals serious damage to Ferrothorn even inside of rain, a pokemon rain teams common struggle against. Likewise, it beats Thundurus 1v1, another pokemon rain teams have trouble with.

 

[Karxrida]

What does it's job better? It's faster and has better coverage than every other fast electric type with volt switch AND gets intimidate... The only problem I see is that it takes up a mega slot.

Rotom-W is the better pivot as stated on one of my posts on this page or last page.
Greninja is the better cleaner with better coverage and more power thanks to Life Orb + Protean. It also lols at Mega Venusaur thanks to Extrasensory and threatens Aegislash.
There are a shit ton of better revenge killers that can also fulfill other roles and/or have some degree of unpredictability (like ScarfChomp).

Also, as the-bumper-car stated, Mega Manectric needs perfect prediction to do its job, otherwise you've lost your pivot.

EDIT:

Whilst Mega Manetric certainly isn't the strongest of OU pokemon, I feel like I should say it has utility on a rain HO team. It keeps momentum with Volt Switch, benefits slightly by having 100% accurate thunders as opposed to thunderbolts, and deals serious damage to Ferrothorn even inside of rain, a pokemon rain teams common struggle against. Likewise, it beats Thundurus 1v1, another pokemon rain teams have trouble with.

252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 256-304 (72.7 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 4 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 100-118 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If Ferrothorn has Protect and Lefties/Leech Seed you're kinda fucked.

Also, you do not beat Thundy 1v1 when you give Defiant sets a free boost and cannot switch in when Thunderbolt + Focus Blast is a guaranteed 2HKO on Life Orb sets (and you're flat out fucked if it has Nasty Plot+Lefties and it boosts as you switch in) and you cannot OHKO it.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Guys, I feel like most of you are not getting Manectric at all.

It's not supposed to take hits. Period. It's supposed to create offensive pressure. When I play against it, it comes in on almost every single revenge kill, volt-turn, or free switch of any sort its team gets. On a 6x6 match, it will come in at least 6 times. It comes in more often than every pokemon on its team. And when it comes, it threatens to deal huge damage to everything, because it checks half of the high ranked mon, while threatening to deal huge damage to the other half, making them easy to revenge kill. Its high speed, and the fact it's not weak to any priority, plus having intimidate, guarantees it is always getting to attack before dieing, so the opponent will always have to pay a price to kill it. And if it misses the prediction and the opponent switches into a check, it can volt switch out in the next turn without taking damage. It just stays alive for the entire match, coming back over and over and wearing off the opposing team with its stab volt switches (whose power should not be taken for granted) and other stronger moves.

That's how it works. When you use it, you don't use it in hopes of "beating" anything. You use it to force switches and create pressure. This thing is the ultimate glue, the master scout. It doesn't win match ups, but it makes sure its teammates will always start their match ups with the advantage. It's one of the most annoying mon to face in the metagame, because it refuses to die and it's guaranteed to take a piece of your team every time it comes in.

It should be, at the very least, A-.

 

[Lunyck]

Is someone here really questioning the blue bomber's b-ranking?
Megaman gets intimidate, resists bullet punch, brave bird and pinsirs quick attack....aaaaannd volt switch to switch out fast. Flamethrower/overheat, thunderbolt, hp ice and volt switch is everything this beast needs to wreck havoc and grab that momentum
And even if megaman dies on the switch, the opponent still has that -1 attack which allows you to send out someone else to take care of it.
Let's not forget the fact that normal manectric can switch into thunderbolts and thunderwaves and get a +1 in the process.

If something walls megaman, why the fuck will you stay in? Volt switch outta there and let your beastly charizard or whatever deal with it

 

[theV8man]

Rotom-W is the better pivot as stated on one of my posts on this page or last page.
Greninja is the better cleaner with better coverage and more power thanks to Life Orb + Protean. It also lols at Mega Venusaur thanks to Extrasensory and threatens Aegislash.
There are a shit ton of better revenge killers that can also fulfill other roles and/or have some degree of unpredictability (like ScarfChomp).

Also, as the-bumper-car stated, Mega Manectric needs perfect prediction to do its job, otherwise you've lost your pivot.

I don't see why you're making comparisons to Greninja as it has a completely different role compared to Mega-Man. Perfect prediction??? Mega-Man is one of the safest Pokemon to use out there! With volt switch you can escape any situation you want... Mega-Man requires so little prediciton compared others such as Bisharp or any Choiced Pokemon lol.

 

[Karxrida]

Whilst Mega Manetric certainly isn't the strongest of OU pokemon, I feel like I should say it has utility on a rain HO team. It keeps momentum with Volt Switch, benefits slightly by having 100% accurate thunders as opposed to thunderbolts, and deals serious damage to Ferrothorn even inside of rain, a pokemon rain teams common struggle against. Likewise, it beats Thundurus 1v1, another pokemon rain teams have trouble with.

Guys, I feel like most of you are not getting Manectric at all.

It's not supposed to take hits. Period. It's supposed to create offensive pressure. When I play against it, it comes in on almost every single revenge kill, volt-turn, or free switch of any sort its team gets. On a 6x6 match, it will come in at least 6 times. It comes in more often than every pokemon on its team. And when it comes, it threatens to deal huge damage to everything, because it checks half of the high ranked mon, while threatening to deal huge damage to the other half, making them easy to revenge kill. Its high speed, and the fact it's not weak to any priority, plus having intimidate, guarantees it is always getting to attack before dieing, so the opponent will always have to pay a price to kill it. And if it misses the prediction and the opponent switches into a check, it can volt switch out in the next turn without taking damage. It just stays alive for the entire match, coming back over and over and wearing off the opposing team with its stab volt switches (whose power should not be taken for granted) and other stronger moves.

That's how it works. When you use it, you don't use it in hopes of "beating" anything. You use it to force switches and create pressure. This thing is the ultimate glue, the master scout. It doesn't win match ups, but it makes sure its teammates will always start their match ups with the advantage. It's one of the most annoying mon to face in the metagame, because it refuses to die and it's guaranteed to take a piece of your team every time it comes in.

It should be, at the very least, A-.

Pivots can't pivot if they are not switching in to take hits. Because they're pivots.

Is someone here really questioning the blue bomber's b-ranking?
Megaman gets intimidate, resists bullet punch, brave bird and pinsirs quick attack....aaaaannd volt switch to switch out fast. Flamethrower/overheat, thunderbolt, hp ice and volt switch is everything this beast needs to wreck havoc and grab that momentum
And even if megaman dies on the switch, the opponent still has that -1 attack which allows you to send out someone else to take care of it.
Let's not forget the fact that normal manectric can switch into thunderbolts and thunderwaves and get a +1 in the process.

If something walls megaman, why the fuck will you stay in? Volt switch outta there and let your beastly charizard or whatever deal with it

I assume you mean Mega Zard, which you cannot have on the same team as Mega Manectric. Also, losing a MEGA just for a -1 debuff is a really shitty trade.

EDIT:

I don't see why you're making comparisons to Greninja as it has a completely different role compared to Mega-Man. Perfect prediction??? Mega-Man is one of the safest Pokemon to use out there! With volt switch you can escape any situation you want... Mega-Man requires so little prediciton compared others such as Bisharp or any Choiced Pokemon lol.

People have said that Mega Manectric is also a cleaner, which is where the Greninja comparison comes from. Also, Mega Manectric needs that good prediction because it has almost no good switch-in opportunities and a misprediction means it gets severely crippled (if not die outright) due to its bulk.

 

[Baharoth]

Most defensive mons can easily switch into mega man take what ever he wants to throw at them and heal of the dmg while he leaves and offensive teams can simply take the dmg on one of their mons to kill it and solve the problem once and for all. He might have some use against offense, but against balance and stall he is kinda useless. He might be slighly better in his role than the other options but, and thats realy the point here, the others dont take up the mega slot. He is simply not worth using that slot for him in OU.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Pivots can't pivot if they are not switching in to take hits. Because they're pivots.

I don't care what the textbook definition of pivot says. If manectric doesn't fit it, then create a new name for its role or something. All I know is that it works. It's probably the safest pokemon there is to bring in a free switch, for how easily it can get out and how profitable it is to bring in even if it only volt switches and does nothing else.

 

[Lunyck]

Pivots can't pivot if they are not switching in to take hits. Because they're pivots.

I assume you mean Mega Zard, which you cannot have on the same team as Mega Manectric. Also, losing a MEGA just for a -1 debuff is a really shitty trade.

EDIT:

People have said that Mega Manectric is also a cleaner, which is where the Greninja comparison comes from. Also, Mega Manectric needs that good prediction because it has almost no good switch-in opportunities and a misprediction means it gets severely crippled (if not die outright) due to its bulk.

Wait wait wait... Crippled? You mean by what? Thunder wave? Paralysis is a no no. Toxic? For a pokemon that just stays in one turn on average, not really. Burned? Special attacker y'all. Greninja which is slower and frailer than the blue bomber...a better cleaner? Don't think so

Also... Losing a mega and then still gaining something is still pretty solid

 

[Karxrida]

I don't care what the textbook definition of pivot says. If manectric doesn't fit it, then create a new name for its role or something. All I know is that it works. It's probably the safest pokemon there is to bring in a free switch, for how easily it can get out and how profitable it is to bring in even if it only volt switches and does nothing else.

Rotom-W does the exact same thing without potentially dying, can spread burns like the plague, and doesn't give Bisharp users Defiant boners when you send it out.

Wait wait wait... Crippled? You mean by what? Thunder wave? Paralysis is a no no. Toxic? For a pokemon that just stays in one turn on average, not really. Burned? Special attacker y'all. Greninja which is slower and frailer than the blue bomber...a better cleaner? Don't think so

Also... Losing a mega and then still gaining something is still pretty solid

Greninja is stronger, has better coverage, and can fuck over the VenuTran core that Mega Man can't touch. Also, by crippled I mean taking over 50% in damage when you switch in to pivot.

 

[Lunyck]

Rotom-W does the exact same thing without potentially dying, can spread burns like the plague, and doesn't give Bisharp users Defiant boners when you send it out.

Rotom-W is also slower and not as powerful... and doesnt have intimidate... Or a fire move. Also.... Why the fuck would you send manectric out on a bisharp?

Rotom-W does the exact same thing without potentially dying, can spread burns like the plague, and doesn't give Bisharp users Defiant boners when you send it out.


Greninja is stronger, has better coverage, and can fuck over the VenuTran core that Mega Man can't touch. Also, by crippled I mean taking over 50% in damage when you switch in to pivot.

And thats why megaman has voltswitch, to let something else handle that crap

Subject 18 Edit: Please learn to Multi-quote do avoid double posting.