Like M-Mawile, I'd say the best answer is Venasaur. The standard set can come in on the belly drum and then kill it with Giga Drain or Sludge Bomb/Wave.
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Other XY OU Victim of the Week [WEEK 6 (Read post #181)]
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I'd say Belly Drum Azumarill is overrated, especially given how often people try to set up with it way too early and end up getting burned for it (Both literally and figuratively). I'll choose to think of something a bit more original than "Venusaur walls the world."
I toyed around with the idea of using Water Absorb Cacturne, unfortunately its Dark typing betrayed it, as Azumarill predicting the switch with a Play Rough would rip him to shreds. Even if run with a Focus Sash, if there are any hazards up Cacturne will bite the dust, and even if there aren't, it's pretty easy to switch into something else to take whatever Cacturne would want to do. Instead, I chose this:
Garbodor@Assault Vest/Leftovers
Ability: Aftermath
Impish Nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/ 4 SpDef
- Clear Smog/Haze
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch/Pain Split
- Seed Bomb/Explosion/Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Toxic/Ect
Garbodor gets a lot of hate for being a "Stupid Design" (Seriously people, back in Gen 1 we had Grimer, Muk, and Ditto, who were all BLOBS), but he's actually resonably effective, such as in this set. Now, the big issue I was having was finding something that could live the +6 Aqua Jet and then revenge kill. My issues were that everything that could live the Aqua Jet were either too slow and would get OHKO'd by the Waterfall, or couldn't hit hard enough. I was looking at the Water Absorb and Storm Drain users for a long time until it struck me: You don't have to revenge kill it, you just have to cripple it. Thus, Garbodor's numbers:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 259-306 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rocks
This is important, because with his 75 base speed, Garbodor outspeeds 164 Speed EV Azumarill, which allows him to switch in on the Belly Drum (I'll provide calculations later on how laughably little Azumarill can hurt Garbador without the Belly Drum), eat the Aqua Jet and then Smack him with a Clear Smog or a Haze, which effectively turns him into a normal Azumarill with no item. Now, take a gander at this number:
0- SpA Garbodor Clear Smog vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 80-96 (21.9 - 26.3%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO
You could take a Lax nature if you really wanted (I wouldn't) for a more powerful Clear Smog:
0 SpA Garbodor Clear Smog vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 86-104 (23.6 - 28.5%) -- 96.5% chance to 4HKO
But the point is, even with a negative Special Attack nature, Azumarill will be left with, at max, about 53% HP. Even if it gets off another Belly Drum (Fat Chance), pretty much any priority user who outspeeds Azumarill (Read: Most of them) can do at least 3% to it.
Now, you can run the set Assault Vest and give Garbodor Drain Punch, which will make him a better mixed wall, or just run regular lefties and use him as some support role with stuff like Pain Split and Spikes. Either way, even without an Azumarill to deal with, Garbodor will still be a valuable member of your team.
Oh, and here are the calcs from an unboosted Azumarill hitting Garbodor:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 73-87 (20 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 130-154 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- 91.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 65-77 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
And Garbodor's retort:
0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 300-354 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Another Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-88947882
That's a game in which I used the set. Regardless of Garbodor's viability in OU, it did its job perfectly and took out Azumarill. He went down in the process, but that was a trade I was perfectly willing to make.
I toyed around with the idea of using Water Absorb Cacturne, unfortunately its Dark typing betrayed it, as Azumarill predicting the switch with a Play Rough would rip him to shreds. Even if run with a Focus Sash, if there are any hazards up Cacturne will bite the dust, and even if there aren't, it's pretty easy to switch into something else to take whatever Cacturne would want to do. Instead, I chose this:
Garbodor@Assault Vest/Leftovers
Ability: Aftermath
Impish Nature
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/ 4 SpDef
- Clear Smog/Haze
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch/Pain Split
- Seed Bomb/Explosion/Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Toxic/Ect
Garbodor gets a lot of hate for being a "Stupid Design" (Seriously people, back in Gen 1 we had Grimer, Muk, and Ditto, who were all BLOBS), but he's actually resonably effective, such as in this set. Now, the big issue I was having was finding something that could live the +6 Aqua Jet and then revenge kill. My issues were that everything that could live the Aqua Jet were either too slow and would get OHKO'd by the Waterfall, or couldn't hit hard enough. I was looking at the Water Absorb and Storm Drain users for a long time until it struck me: You don't have to revenge kill it, you just have to cripple it. Thus, Garbodor's numbers:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 259-306 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rocks
This is important, because with his 75 base speed, Garbodor outspeeds 164 Speed EV Azumarill, which allows him to switch in on the Belly Drum (I'll provide calculations later on how laughably little Azumarill can hurt Garbador without the Belly Drum), eat the Aqua Jet and then Smack him with a Clear Smog or a Haze, which effectively turns him into a normal Azumarill with no item. Now, take a gander at this number:
0- SpA Garbodor Clear Smog vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 80-96 (21.9 - 26.3%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO
You could take a Lax nature if you really wanted (I wouldn't) for a more powerful Clear Smog:
0 SpA Garbodor Clear Smog vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 86-104 (23.6 - 28.5%) -- 96.5% chance to 4HKO
But the point is, even with a negative Special Attack nature, Azumarill will be left with, at max, about 53% HP. Even if it gets off another Belly Drum (Fat Chance), pretty much any priority user who outspeeds Azumarill (Read: Most of them) can do at least 3% to it.
Now, you can run the set Assault Vest and give Garbodor Drain Punch, which will make him a better mixed wall, or just run regular lefties and use him as some support role with stuff like Pain Split and Spikes. Either way, even without an Azumarill to deal with, Garbodor will still be a valuable member of your team.
Oh, and here are the calcs from an unboosted Azumarill hitting Garbodor:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 73-87 (20 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 130-154 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- 91.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garbodor: 65-77 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
And Garbodor's retort:
0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 300-354 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Another Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-88947882
That's a game in which I used the set. Regardless of Garbodor's viability in OU, it did its job perfectly and took out Azumarill. He went down in the process, but that was a trade I was perfectly willing to make.
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The only true counter to a +6 Azumarill is Mega Venusaur. However, there's quite a few checks. I'll use Breloom for this one...
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Jolly Nature
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Swords Dance
(The Poison Heal set beats it too, if it's running speed)
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 380-452 (94 - 111.8%) -- approx. 75% chance to OHKO (In other words, you'll always OHKO an Azumarill who's at 75%)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 191-225 (72.9 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Jolly Nature
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Swords Dance
(The Poison Heal set beats it too, if it's running speed)
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 380-452 (94 - 111.8%) -- approx. 75% chance to OHKO (In other words, you'll always OHKO an Azumarill who's at 75%)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 191-225 (72.9 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Reserving Quagsire, will put in later
Hmm... seeing as someone reserved quagsire (>_>)
I think I'll go with...this is harder than I thought (*_*;)
I thought tangrowth, but he can't take a +6 Play Rough...
Then Jellicent, but he too, can't take a +6 Play Rough...
And I've decided to forgo finding a counter and instead... came up with this!
WEEZING!!! (@ Chesto Berry/Black Sludge)
252 HP/252+ Def/ 4 Sp. Attack
Bold
- Belch/ sludge bomb
- Will-o-Wisp/ Fire Blast
- rest / will-o-wisp
- Stockpile
Okay okay, so, the first set goes with chesto berry, then after the slash is the black sludge set, but it doesn't matter. Point is, if you send it in, anticipating the switch, you're golden. WoW handles it easy, making the +6 useless... almost. Anyway.
But lets say you send it in after the +6 has been obtained? Better hope it doesn't use waterfall... still, wow and then recover and stockpile, kill it off with a poison move.
It isn't the most sturdy check TBH but its the best I can come up with, short of suggesting water-resist scarfer.
The thing is, Weezing does great till,
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 403-475 (120.6 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
otherwise, everything else is a safe 2KO that is neutered by WoW
I think I'll go with...this is harder than I thought (*_*;)
I thought tangrowth, but he can't take a +6 Play Rough...
Then Jellicent, but he too, can't take a +6 Play Rough...
And I've decided to forgo finding a counter and instead... came up with this!
WEEZING!!! (@ Chesto Berry/Black Sludge)
252 HP/252+ Def/ 4 Sp. Attack
Bold
- Belch/ sludge bomb
- Will-o-Wisp/ Fire Blast
- rest / will-o-wisp
- Stockpile
Okay okay, so, the first set goes with chesto berry, then after the slash is the black sludge set, but it doesn't matter. Point is, if you send it in, anticipating the switch, you're golden. WoW handles it easy, making the +6 useless... almost. Anyway.
But lets say you send it in after the +6 has been obtained? Better hope it doesn't use waterfall... still, wow and then recover and stockpile, kill it off with a poison move.
It isn't the most sturdy check TBH but its the best I can come up with, short of suggesting water-resist scarfer.
The thing is, Weezing does great till,
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 403-475 (120.6 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
otherwise, everything else is a safe 2KO that is neutered by WoW
The best counter out there for mega lucario is aegislash. come on guys why are we beating around the bushes here. Just simply loan it a sacred sword or a shadown ball and it should be dead or near dead. Lucario is a darn steel and fighting. Aegislash is a steel ghost. if that mega lucario lacks earthquake it is all dead meant. Especially these aegislashes with substitute and kings shield which can screw with any lucario lacking EQ.
Tentacruel is not a 100% counter but in my experience is pretty damn good against BD Azumarill.
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge | Liquid Ooze
Bold | 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
Can obviously switch in safely. Resists every attack Azumarill can throw, outspeeds and deals a very good chunk of damage with Sludge Bomb, killing Azumarill after SR and some other source of residual damage (deals 53.2 - 63.1%). Unfortunatey, it cannot guarantee the KO (even if you're mad enough to run 252 SpA, you're not doing so). Even if Azumarill manages to survive, it still has a 30% chance to die to the poison, and "only" a 56.3% chance to OHKO Tentacruel with Play Rough. This is probably enough to prevent Cruel from countering Azumarill, but at the very least it's a rock solid check.
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge | Liquid Ooze
Bold | 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
Can obviously switch in safely. Resists every attack Azumarill can throw, outspeeds and deals a very good chunk of damage with Sludge Bomb, killing Azumarill after SR and some other source of residual damage (deals 53.2 - 63.1%). Unfortunatey, it cannot guarantee the KO (even if you're mad enough to run 252 SpA, you're not doing so). Even if Azumarill manages to survive, it still has a 30% chance to die to the poison, and "only" a 56.3% chance to OHKO Tentacruel with Play Rough. This is probably enough to prevent Cruel from countering Azumarill, but at the very least it's a rock solid check.
One of my favorite Pokemon I use to stop it is actually a fellow Fairy, Clefable!
gud stuff bruh (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
This set is very common and is very good. If you wanted to make this set into a full on Azumarill check, the EVs can be adjusted to 88 HP / 244 Def / 176 SpA / 12 Spd, this avoids the 3HKO every time and can just put a full stop to it. It can then stall with Wish + CM and does phenomenal. Clefable can also do a number to it with Moonblast. Clefable takes 0 shits whatsoever from any other move in Azumarill's arsenal.
gud stuff bruh (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
This set is very common and is very good. If you wanted to make this set into a full on Azumarill check, the EVs can be adjusted to 88 HP / 244 Def / 176 SpA / 12 Spd, this avoids the 3HKO every time and can just put a full stop to it. It can then stall with Wish + CM and does phenomenal. Clefable can also do a number to it with Moonblast. Clefable takes 0 shits whatsoever from any other move in Azumarill's arsenal.
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While we're still early into this new week, lets just go with the "obvious" choice before anyone else talks about it :-)
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 372-438 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 298-351 (81.8 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Venusaur outspeeds and OHKOs with Sludge Bomb (at least, while Azumarill is at 80% because of the Belly Drum / Sitrus Berry).
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For a less obvious solution, here's Trevenant.
Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 120 Spd / Whatever (But lets say... 252 Def / 136 HP)
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Substitute
- Whatever
- Whatever
0 Atk Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
After the Belly Drum, Azumarill is at 80% and the Wood Hammer is a guaranteed KO. Trevenant can safely switch into a Choice Band Play Rough from Azumarill, survive and KO with Wood Hammer. (+HP from Sitrus Berry means that Trevenant wins without dying. Trevenant is effectively fighting at 125% hp)
Trevenant is faster than Azumarill, so the only attack at +6 of note is Aqua Jet.
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 136 HP / 252 Def Trevenant: 149-176 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
At 178 speed, Trevenant outspeeds the EV spread listed. If speed creep becomes an issue, Trevenant is always +12 speed over Azumarril due to being base 56 instead of base 50 speed.
The strategy is simple. Switch into anything (best case, Belly drum). KO with Wood Hammer.
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 372-438 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 298-351 (81.8 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Venusaur outspeeds and OHKOs with Sludge Bomb (at least, while Azumarill is at 80% because of the Belly Drum / Sitrus Berry).
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For a less obvious solution, here's Trevenant.
Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 120 Spd / Whatever (But lets say... 252 Def / 136 HP)
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Substitute
- Whatever
- Whatever
0 Atk Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
After the Belly Drum, Azumarill is at 80% and the Wood Hammer is a guaranteed KO. Trevenant can safely switch into a Choice Band Play Rough from Azumarill, survive and KO with Wood Hammer. (+HP from Sitrus Berry means that Trevenant wins without dying. Trevenant is effectively fighting at 125% hp)
Trevenant is faster than Azumarill, so the only attack at +6 of note is Aqua Jet.
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 136 HP / 252 Def Trevenant: 149-176 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
At 178 speed, Trevenant outspeeds the EV spread listed. If speed creep becomes an issue, Trevenant is always +12 speed over Azumarril due to being base 56 instead of base 50 speed.
The strategy is simple. Switch into anything (best case, Belly drum). KO with Wood Hammer.
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Meheheh this is almost cheating...
Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
While perhaps the most difficult to use pokemon in the game, Shedinja does have immunities to just about anything azumarill ever does bar Knock off. Will-o-wisp gives your team a chance to survive, and you force your opponent to make a switch. The only thing your opponent can do is cry about losing 50% of their health on the belly drum. Of course, you need to keep hazards clear, but this is one of the few counters to azumarill... Everything else I tested for my stall teams either died or was named Ferrothorn/mega venusaur.
Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
While perhaps the most difficult to use pokemon in the game, Shedinja does have immunities to just about anything azumarill ever does bar Knock off. Will-o-wisp gives your team a chance to survive, and you force your opponent to make a switch. The only thing your opponent can do is cry about losing 50% of their health on the belly drum. Of course, you need to keep hazards clear, but this is one of the few counters to azumarill... Everything else I tested for my stall teams either died or was named Ferrothorn/mega venusaur.
I understand that everyone's mentioned the best checks to Azu already, but... Shedinja? I love it, but these checks/counters are supposed to be viable in OU, or otherwise, I would post Qwilfish as a great counter to Azumarill!
Anyway, the only true counter is Mega Venusaur, completely walling anything Azu tries to do. Since Megasaur is so common this makes life awful against stall teams and you'll need a lot of double-switching and wallbreaker teammates to succeed. Beyond Megasaur and other bulky Poison-types, anything that resists Water and can KO in return makes a good check to BellyJet Azu. Rotom-W is the obvious example, although it needs to watch out for CB Play Rough.
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
I'll make Ferro my "official" entry this week. Although Azu can carry Superpower specifically for him, I've found that a lot of Azumarills are running Waterfall/Knock Off instead of Superpower due to Ferro's decline in usage. If it doesn't have Superpower, Ferrothorn can easily take any hit and KO with Power Whip. However, with Rocky Helmet equipped Ferrothorn still makes a solid switch-in thanks to Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet. The worst-case scenario is Azumarill suffering ~31% residual damage and -1 Atk/Def, leaving it easily revenged. Ferrothorn does well against CB variants as well, so long as you avoid Superpower on the switch.
Obviously not the best counter, but the best of the best have already been posted!
Anyway, the only true counter is Mega Venusaur, completely walling anything Azu tries to do. Since Megasaur is so common this makes life awful against stall teams and you'll need a lot of double-switching and wallbreaker teammates to succeed. Beyond Megasaur and other bulky Poison-types, anything that resists Water and can KO in return makes a good check to BellyJet Azu. Rotom-W is the obvious example, although it needs to watch out for CB Play Rough.
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
I'll make Ferro my "official" entry this week. Although Azu can carry Superpower specifically for him, I've found that a lot of Azumarills are running Waterfall/Knock Off instead of Superpower due to Ferro's decline in usage. If it doesn't have Superpower, Ferrothorn can easily take any hit and KO with Power Whip. However, with Rocky Helmet equipped Ferrothorn still makes a solid switch-in thanks to Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet. The worst-case scenario is Azumarill suffering ~31% residual damage and -1 Atk/Def, leaving it easily revenged. Ferrothorn does well against CB variants as well, so long as you avoid Superpower on the switch.
Obviously not the best counter, but the best of the best have already been posted!
Seems like a waste to just mention stuff in OU. I mean, what's the point of even discussing Azumarill if the answer is Venusaur with a big fat period on the end? I posted what I thought was a reasonably effective Assault Vest Garbodor and that got the axe from a mod (But Weezing didn't? Hmmmm...)
I would also like to point out that the viability of anything is completely subjective; Amoonguss was RU last gen but I saw him used to great effect in OU all the time.
My point is, I think this thread will suffer if the mods just elbow drop anything that isn't Upper UU/OU. Give us a LITTLE wiggle room!
I don't think you understand the difference between "OU" and "Viable in OU". The point of this thread is not just to find the best counters, but also discover new/underrated ones as well. Don't feel afraid of posting uncommon/underused Pokemon just because they're in a lower usage tier. There are plenty of Pokemon from UU/RU that are viable in OU, but Garbodor isn't exactly one of them (and neither is Shedinja or Qwilfish).
Excuse me? I'll have you know that Qwilfish is indeed a beast. It has a niche being able to ceck azumarill, scizor, physical genesect, mega mawile, volcarona and countless ohter massive threats in the metagame give qwilfish mountains of free turn to stack up spikes, and block cocky defoggers with its taunts. Beyond that, it's swift swim set is twice as dangerous as any other's thanks to its ability to set up so easily on many common attacks and proceed to end the life of common ou teams.
In contrast with ferrothorn, it just gets murdered by superpower which is a slash on the set that youre supposed to counter, it's not even worth mentioning.
In contrast with ferrothorn, it just gets murdered by superpower which is a slash on the set that youre supposed to counter, it's not even worth mentioning.
I'm a little sad they axed the garbodor post. I thought it was pretty good!
Also, as the maker of the weezing post I can't help but defend it, it is, as a poison type defensive behemoth with levitate a very good check for a lot of mons in OU, specifically mega lucario (who doesn't matter anymore)
I have to agree with you though. Once the obvious checks and counters are listed, what're we supposed to do? Wait till the next entry? I think posting things that we, I dunno, put a disclaimer or something saying "this isn't optimal but its something I use successfully" should be ok
The difference is, unlike the majority of lower tier pokemon, Shedinja can be made to be perfectly viable in OU, and provides a perfect endgame as well. A team that centers around removing five types of pokemon (Ghost, dark, Fire, flying, rock) is not all that hard, and one that has a hazard remover isn't difficult either. Consider in OU that the pokemon using flying type attacks are three fold: Talonflame, Pinsir-mega, Charizard-Y (and this is sometimes rare). The pokemon running ghost attacks, generally two fold (Aegislash, Gengar), the pokemon running dark attacks a little more common (Tyranitar, Mandibuzz, Scizor, Conkeldurr, Bisharp, Sableye, Greninja), fire pokes (CharizardXY, Heatran, Talonflame, Volcarona, Infernape, Garchomp) and rock type attacks (Tyranitar, Garchomp, Lando-T/I, Mamoswine) and the others to worry about (Mold breaker) Excadrill, Kyub, Gyardos-mega.
That's 20 pokemon. 20 pokemon in the metagame to prepare for before doing something like baton passing a sub and having an end game. So he does have viability if the team is built for him, unlike most lower tier pokemon. He is one of the most difficult pokemon to use, but he also provides an end game all his own. Saying he isn't viable in OU is incorrect, he just needs support to cover these pokemon. I can solve every one of the pokemon bar the dark type with a rain team/bulky water type.
You also have to mention grass types can just leech seed, tyranitar, hippowdon, or abomasnow can just set the weather and prevent it from ever coming in.
Anyway
Another great check to this guy is Amoonguss
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Spd / 248 Def
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play
- Spore
- Sludge Bomb
He can come in on most of the stuff this guy has to offer, incapacitate the switch-in, and keep itself healthy with regenerator, one of the best abilities in the game. He can hurt some unsuspecting dragons with Foul Play too. Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb are just basic STABs, making him a pretty good answer to fairies not named Gardevoir or Togekiss.
He's sorta lower tier, but he still performs pretty well in the upper tiers, despite the spore nerf and all.
The thing that is annoying about BD Azu is whatever easily sponges it's water moves can't exactly handle Play Rough, and whatever handles play rough, can't handle it's water moves, and if something handles both (Ferrothorn) it can't handle a coverage move like superpower.
Mega Venusaur is the only real counter to this annoying pokemon. That's why everything else suggested, mostly comes up short in the worst case scenario.
Mega Venusaur is the only real counter to this annoying pokemon. That's why everything else suggested, mostly comes up short in the worst case scenario.
The real way to take BD azumarill in practice is to find it coming in and roar it out. BD azumarill likes to lead a lot, apparently, so that's a great time to catch it. Hitting it on setup is another great option, and most of the 'checks' coming in on BD can take the last 50% away.
Mostly, you just need to survive aqua jet on a check
Mostly, you just need to survive aqua jet on a check
I didn't mean to offend; I have no problems with your Weezing post, I'm just a bit upset because I put a decent amount of time and effort coming up with that Garbodor post and I'm a little upset that it won't even get considered now, and it seems like both being NU 'mons, I'd think my build would get just as much consideration as yours. I'm talking with the guy who deleted it and I'm trying to get him to budge on the matter, so we'll see.
That's a pretty bold statement to make given that the meta hasn't even been settled on yet. On top of that, it's not terribly uncommon for a low-tier pokemon to rise due to a discovered niche. I don't ask that you agree with me, I just ask that you give every build (assuming it isn't just a troll build, which mine most certainly was not) it's fair chance.
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 248 Def Amoonguss: 353-416 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth RockYou also have to mention grass types can just leech seed, tyranitar, hippowdon, or abomasnow can just set the weather and prevent it from ever coming in.
Anyway
Another great check to this guy is Amoonguss
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Spd / 248 Def
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play
- Spore
- Sludge Bomb
He can come in on most of the stuff this guy has to offer, incapacitate the switch-in, and keep itself healthy with regenerator, one of the best abilities in the game. He can hurt some unsuspecting dragons with Foul Play too. Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb are just basic STABs, making him a pretty good answer to fairies not named Gardevoir or Togekiss.
He's sorta lower tier, but he still performs pretty well in the upper tiers, despite the spore nerf and all.
As much as I love Amoongus, this is hardly a solid counter since it can't safely come in on a Belly Drum. Amoongus can't OHKO Azu anyway if it's carrying Sitrus Berry (Sludge Bomb does 59.9% max), so you'd have to Spore and hope your sleep roll wasn't too low.
EDIT you actually did say it was a check, not a counter, which is true as long as Azu hasn't set up yet.
I know Venusaur-mega has been brought up a lot already, but i'd like to present a different set:
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spd
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
This reaches 220spe, which outspeeds 252+ jolly Azumarill. So even after it gets worn down, it only has to fear aqua jet when switching into belly drum. It also outspeeds and ohkos 44spe physically defensive rotom-w with leaf storm, which is trying to speed creep on jolly base 50 for Azumarill.
I have noticed that rotom-w stay in to volt switch on megasaur a lot, so in addition to being better against Azu this makes a great lure for rotom-w.
[ not sure how general usefulness is relevant to the sets in this thread, if it isn't please excuse :) ]
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spd
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
This reaches 220spe, which outspeeds 252+ jolly Azumarill. So even after it gets worn down, it only has to fear aqua jet when switching into belly drum. It also outspeeds and ohkos 44spe physically defensive rotom-w with leaf storm, which is trying to speed creep on jolly base 50 for Azumarill.
I have noticed that rotom-w stay in to volt switch on megasaur a lot, so in addition to being better against Azu this makes a great lure for rotom-w.
[ not sure how general usefulness is relevant to the sets in this thread, if it isn't please excuse :) ]
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I'm going to run a Skarmpoints analysis on Azumarill.
According to the charrt, 252 Atk Azumarill has 1.27 Skarmpoints of attack.
Skarmpoints * Adamant * Huge Power * Belly Drum * STAB? * (Base Power) / Stealth Rocks == Skarmcents for OHKO potential
1.27 * 1.1 * 2 * 4 * 1.5 * 90 (Play Rough) * 1.125 / 10 == 169 Skarmcents worth of damage.
With a Choice Band (instead of Belly Drum), Play Rough does 63 Skarmcents of damage.
That is, Azumarill would do 169% dmg to "standard skarmory" with Belly Drummed Play Rough + Stealth Rocks. No pokemon has the effective HP of a Skarmory at 169%, so only resists can take the play rough. On the other hand, any pokemon that can deal 80% damage to Azumarill only has to worry about the Aqua Jet. I think it is best to focus on pokemon that outspeed Azumarill, as opposed to pokemon that can actually take the +6 Play Rough.
1.27 * 1.1 * 2 * 4 * 1.5 * 40 (Play Rough) * 1.125 / 10 == 75 Skarmcents.
Any pokemon with less than 76 Skarmcents
To be a counter to both Belly-Drum Azumarill AND the potential Choice-band Azumarill, a Pokemon must be able to take 63 Skarmcents worth of "Fairy" damage (Choice Banded Play Rough), 75 Skarmcents of water damage (Belly Drummed Aqua Jet), outspeed Azumarill, and deal 80% damage.
Tangrowth (min: 71.69, max:103.65) (Ties Azumarill in speed however)
Cloyster (min: 70.16, max:102.58) (I don't think it can OHKO Azumarill)
Aegislash (min: 64.47, max:95.03) (I don't think it can OHKO)
Gourgeist-Super (min: 64.01, max:94.3)
Gourgeist-Large (min: 59.9, max:89.26) <--- Better Speed Stat for outspeeding Azumarill. Requires Life Orb or Choice Band to KO an 80% Azumarill with Seed Bomb.
Celebi (min: 59.16, max:88.8)
Leafeon (min: 58.97, max:88.15) (Leaf Blade)
Lapras (min: 57.78, max:88.34) (Lol Waterabsorb. Dies to Superpower... but barely gets 80% dmg with Freeze Dry + Specs)
-------------------------
Grass / Poison types btw, resist the entire set mentioned. So even a grass/poison pokemon with as weak defenses as Roserade technically counts as a counter (with appropriate EV investment)
Roserade (min: 31.85, max:54.54)
With 128 Defense EVs, Roserade survives the +6 Aquajet, the +0 CB Play Rough, and OHKOs with 252 Sp. Atk Sludge Bomb, or 0 EVed Leaf Storm.
--------------------------
252+ Atk Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
-------------------------
But really, all the good stuff has been already mentioned in this thread. The only pokemon that really seems viable in OU that hasn't been mentioned yet is Celebi... but Celebi either needs to use Leaf Storm or a +Attack item (Life Orb / Specs) to KO the 80% HP Azumarill.
NU / RU pokemon like Roserade and Leafeon definitely count as counters to Azumaril however, so maybe they'll rise in usage.
According to the charrt, 252 Atk Azumarill has 1.27 Skarmpoints of attack.
Skarmpoints * Adamant * Huge Power * Belly Drum * STAB? * (Base Power) / Stealth Rocks == Skarmcents for OHKO potential
1.27 * 1.1 * 2 * 4 * 1.5 * 90 (Play Rough) * 1.125 / 10 == 169 Skarmcents worth of damage.
With a Choice Band (instead of Belly Drum), Play Rough does 63 Skarmcents of damage.
That is, Azumarill would do 169% dmg to "standard skarmory" with Belly Drummed Play Rough + Stealth Rocks. No pokemon has the effective HP of a Skarmory at 169%, so only resists can take the play rough. On the other hand, any pokemon that can deal 80% damage to Azumarill only has to worry about the Aqua Jet. I think it is best to focus on pokemon that outspeed Azumarill, as opposed to pokemon that can actually take the +6 Play Rough.
1.27 * 1.1 * 2 * 4 * 1.5 * 40 (Play Rough) * 1.125 / 10 == 75 Skarmcents.
Any pokemon with less than 76 Skarmcents
To be a counter to both Belly-Drum Azumarill AND the potential Choice-band Azumarill, a Pokemon must be able to take 63 Skarmcents worth of "Fairy" damage (Choice Banded Play Rough), 75 Skarmcents of water damage (Belly Drummed Aqua Jet), outspeed Azumarill, and deal 80% damage.
Tangrowth (min: 71.69, max:103.65) (Ties Azumarill in speed however)
Cloyster (min: 70.16, max:102.58) (I don't think it can OHKO Azumarill)
Aegislash (min: 64.47, max:95.03) (I don't think it can OHKO)
Gourgeist-Super (min: 64.01, max:94.3)
Gourgeist-Large (min: 59.9, max:89.26) <--- Better Speed Stat for outspeeding Azumarill. Requires Life Orb or Choice Band to KO an 80% Azumarill with Seed Bomb.
Celebi (min: 59.16, max:88.8)
Leafeon (min: 58.97, max:88.15) (Leaf Blade)
Lapras (min: 57.78, max:88.34) (Lol Waterabsorb. Dies to Superpower... but barely gets 80% dmg with Freeze Dry + Specs)
-------------------------
Grass / Poison types btw, resist the entire set mentioned. So even a grass/poison pokemon with as weak defenses as Roserade technically counts as a counter (with appropriate EV investment)
Roserade (min: 31.85, max:54.54)
With 128 Defense EVs, Roserade survives the +6 Aquajet, the +0 CB Play Rough, and OHKOs with 252 Sp. Atk Sludge Bomb, or 0 EVed Leaf Storm.
--------------------------
252+ Atk Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
-------------------------
But really, all the good stuff has been already mentioned in this thread. The only pokemon that really seems viable in OU that hasn't been mentioned yet is Celebi... but Celebi either needs to use Leaf Storm or a +Attack item (Life Orb / Specs) to KO the 80% HP Azumarill.
NU / RU pokemon like Roserade and Leafeon definitely count as counters to Azumaril however, so maybe they'll rise in usage.
Having done calcs, even Roserade, amoongus and the other defensive Poison/Grass types fall due to being Spdef based compared to mega venu. Empoleon can fall to a waterfall still (candidate due to the other double resist). Qwilfish, Skrelp and Tentacruel can all come in and check fairly easily, but none counter. Surprised no one has thrown up Talonflame and gone "Heh, Checks it"
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