The fact that his huge speed is a killer for HO is a valid argument, as it provides a reason why his speed makes him broken. Just "He's way too fast" is not.
Yeah, but that's the issue I see. Most people claiming checks for Genesect and such, can probably also deal with Lucario. And also, those checks run risk of being outsped by Genesect, which can quite clearly happen, being eliminated, thus giving way for Genesect to sweep.
You don't have to run Deo-S on HO.
While true it is bisharp doing the sweeping, who layed down those hazards that allowed bisharp to get it's sweep rolling? And true Mach punch and dark resists with SE moves can stop sharp, bulky resists who can hit hard back are checks to anything. And i thought revenge kill possibility shouldn't affect the pokemon's impact on how good it is? And it's not just his role helping bisharp, but also his other dedicated attacking sets and the pressure his mix sets can easily apply. Like i said i'm pretty neutral on deo, but the pro ban arguements just hit home better with me than the con-ban arguements. I see the points they make as to how he's not broken. Tbh, the selfish part of me wants him to stay so i can use him more, but the intelligent part sees how it's probably for a healthier meta if he gets the boot. If he stays, fine by me i don't mind. If he goes, that's cool too. Just as long as i never see mega lucario ever again, i'm a happy man.
And you can avoid running a shit ton of priority in this meta? Jeez when people suggest running ESpeed on this thing and we don't bat an eye that says it all. Deo-S cannot deal with Dual bird very well and that's the most effective HO style,minus Deo-Sharp which it can and can't run through, depending on how it deals with Bisharp. If it's just a thrown together HO team it probably sucks anyway, especially if you don't have a shitton of priority to prevent Azu, Aegis and Talon running over you.
The Deoxys-S that HO teams would use is the hazard set. The one that HO struggles with is the offensive set. Regardless, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
He is killer to HO because of that outlier speed which makes him faster than all common scarfers and +1 mons, which is what I said in my first post.
I was just posting another set that's deadly, too. Between Flash Cannon and CC, you break through the specially bulky and physically bulky Pokemon that each common Mega Luke variant is walled by, which is nice.
And the point is it's not only Deo-S who can do that, a lot of Hazard users can team with sharp too, Deo-S does it better. But not "broken" better. If you lay hazards and they have defog, it's going to happen no matter what. When guranteed rocks become broken Deo-S can go but in this Metra thats all It gets.
And I said that HO doesn't care all that much because it carries lots of priority to beat him with regardless of his speed, restricting him to revenge killing (and when he's forced out by your priority user, something else has to take the attack). Deoxys-S can revenge kill a lot of HO staples, but it should never be able to sweep a well-made HO team unless most of its priority users have been taken out.
Any offensive team worth jack carries priority in bucketloads, especially HO. Read dcae s post.
It doesn't matter. Deoxys-S is all but guaranteed to revenge kill something every time it comes in against HO as long as it's not coming in on banded Talonflame or Aegislash.
Now you're just creating arguments out of thin air. No one ever said Deoxys-S is going to sweep teams.
Okay, I thought by "rip HO apart" you meant sweep it. Apparently your definition of ripping it apart is reliably revenge killing a large part of it, which makes your arguments make a lot more sense. It can indeed revenge kill a lot of HO, but so can a lot of other stuff (talonflame in particular). Basically, I don't see it being banned just because it's a great revenge killer.
It's not just his hazards sets. He also has the all out attacker LO set. And i'm pretty sure there's some mixed set he can also utilize. He too can be offensive or defensive. Actually, supportive may be a better term for the hazards set. I'd say more but what i would say has probably been repeated multiple times over by people with way more interest than i'll ever have for it to be banned. My opinion isn't that strong on anything up for reasonable debate(deo-s and genesect) so i'll let the mods and 1700+ people sort them out.
Yes it can run All Out attacker. Like all Deo-S sets it's good but. Not busted as you can see above. It's a great revenge killer but it's checked and countered by too many common threats with priorities and bulk everywhere. Even the frail HO deals with it. It's great but not broken.
Deoxys-S learns Knock Off which is great against all of those mons save Mawile (for obvious reasons). It's not as immediately useful as say Fire Punch or Ice Beam but it goes a long way towards reducing their efficacy as checks since like a third of those take SE damage, walls don't like losing Leftovers, and it screws over Pokemon that rely on Assault Vest to check it, plus it gives Deo-S yet another method of team disruption and supportive capabilities.
Obviously you're not going to revenge kill the entire team, but having the potential to revenge kill 4-5 mons on a team can make it very hard for you to lose.
And if it goes for knockoff and doesn't kill it dies. It put in work with a probable kill and a knock off but again not broken at all. It's really good but definitely not busted. Good points though.
You will only kill that many on a bad HO team. A really bad one. Most HO mons have priority and use it. So Not only do they sometimes run a bit of bulk (bulk on ho oh this gen) but they bypass deo-s best stat.
I honestly don't see Deoxys-S giving up coverage on his offensive set to beat his own counters. The offensive set is much more worried about having the coverage to revenge kill stuff than about wallbreaking. That said though, it certainly does have a ton of other viable options (dual screens anyone?).
True but...wait a second(flame shield activated). Sorry about that. Anyway since this was brought up earlier about luke multiple times(and shot down over and over), i thought it being easily revenge killed shouldn't deem it not broken. Bulky mons can take hits from it true, i just don't think it being revenged easily is a valid point to use against it. Hell, mega lucario probably already has bags packed and while he could take away huge chunks of HP bars with his prioriy before getting taken out, he's shouldn't be staying around.
