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Its fucking hilarious how "Grapha" took over the main Konami blog site, yet, Dark World didn't even make top 32 in YCS Columbus.

Granted, I wouldn't say we should assume that Dark World is a shitty deck, but I'm pretty amused about it though.
 
Any Machina Gadget fans around here? I've been playing with a variant of the deck, and find the Ultimate Offering OTK fairly consistent (Steelswarm Roach + Shock Ruler + Utopia + Starlight Road = complete lockdown). Limiter Removal is also a good backup OTK tool. I just find Dark Worlds to be a pain in the ass for the deck because of Grapha, who keeps coming back and runs over Machina Fortress. Machina's effect can actually backfire if Grapha gets discarded, since you may have to discard one of your opponent's Dark World monsters. Outside of DW, Machina Gadgets handle many of the meta decks well.

I love Machina Gadget. I run more of an aggro control version irl because I don't have all the fancy exceeds and synchros. Limiter Removal is nuts, you can use Gearframe to save your monsters from Limiter's destruction, or Exceed in main phase two to save your field prescense as well. Here is my build.

Monsters:16
3|Sdmm|Machina Fortress
1|Sdmm|Machina Force
3|Sdmm|Machina Gearframe
3|Sd10|Red Gadget
3|Sd10|Yellow Gadget
3|Sd10|Green Gadget

Spells:13
1|Psv|Limiter Removal
3|Drev|Pot of Duality
3|Ioc|Smashing Ground
1|Pgd|Book of Moon
1|Lob|Dark Hole
1|Mrl|Mystical Space Typhoon
1|Een|Pot of Avarice
1|Mrd|Heavy Storm
1|Lob|Monster Reborn

Traps:11
3|Sdmm|Dimensional Prison
2|Drev|Solemn Warning
2|Lod|Bottomless Trap Hole
1|Mrd|Mirror Force
1|Lon|Torrential Tribute
1|Mrd|Solemn Judgment
1|Dp10|Starlight Road

Deck:40

Its fucking hilarious how "Grapha" took over the main Konami blog site, yet, Dark World didn't even make top 32 in YCS Columbus.

Granted, I wouldn't say we should assume that Dark World is a shitty deck, but I'm pretty amused about it though.

Yeah, they were promoting Dark World. The deck is still very strong, but I believed it to be slightly overhyped. For one, on Dueling Network you can't sidedeck. Two, in Japan the deck wasn't doing all that much. For 3, the players on Dueling Network aren't very great. I would rather see how Dark World would do in a large YCS rather than dueling network any day. Yes, the deck can do some pretty nutty things, but they were only released 3 days before the YCS. People didn't have time to prepare and perfect their builds, especially with the possible inconsistencies they have. They also need Dark Smog. I also might reply to the banlists later, just been really busy.
 
With a couple things in mind, such as the usefulness of Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer and Royal Decree this format if you can protect them, I decided to make a new deck. This is the result:

Monsters (20)

|3| Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
|3| Gravekeeper's Spy
|3| Effect Veiler
|2| Chaos Sorcerer
|2| Oracle of the Sun
|2| Magical Exemplar
|2| Summoner Monk
|1| Gravekeeper's Decendent
|1| Flamvell Magician
|1| Night's End Sorcerer

Spells (17)

|3| Secret Village of the Spellcasters
|2| Forbidden Chalice
|2| Forbidden Lance
|2| Pot of Duality
|2| Shrink
|2| Solidarity
|1| Book of Moon
|1| Dark Hole
|1| Monster Reborn
|1| Terraforming

Traps (3)

|3| Royal Decree

So... I tested it a little, and I have come to the conclusion that Magical Exemplar just does not fine much use in this deck. So I thought of replacing them and perhaps Night's End Sorcerer for something else, such as Breaker the Magical Warrior, Lyla, or some other Spells. Any thoughts? Perhaps I am missing something...

On another note, this deck can side nicely into things like Necrovalley.
 
What? Where's the drawpower. It definitely needs Wonder Wands. I think either Sorciere de Fleur or Blizzard Princess could be decent in here as well!
Breaker and Lyla will be very good chaos fodder.
With a couple things in mind, such as the usefulness of Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer and Royal Decree this format if you can protect them, I decided to make a new deck. This is the result:

Monsters (20)

|3| Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
|3| Gravekeeper's Spy
|3| Effect Veiler
|2| Chaos Sorcerer
|2| Oracle of the Sun
|2| Magical Exemplar
|2| Summoner Monk
|1| Gravekeeper's Decendent
|1| Flamvell Magician
|1| Night's End Sorcerer

Spells (17)

|3| Secret Village of the Spellcasters
|2| Forbidden Chalice
|2| Forbidden Lance
|2| Pot of Duality
|2| Shrink
|2| Solidarity
|1| Book of Moon
|1| Dark Hole
|1| Monster Reborn
|1| Terraforming

Traps (3)

|3| Royal Decree

So... I tested it a little, and I have come to the conclusion that Magical Exemplar just does not fine much use in this deck. So I thought of replacing them and perhaps Night's End Sorcerer for something else, such as Breaker the Magical Warrior, Lyla, or some other Spells. Any thoughts? Perhaps I am missing something...

On another note, this deck can side nicely into things like Necrovalley.
 
Shoot. I knew I was forgetting something thematic, and Wonder Wand was it. It may be tough to find them, though... And honestly, as the deck stands now, aside from the little bit of pump it provides and the option to try and dig for outs, I generally would like to keep my board presence.

Huh, to be honest, I have never even known of Blizzard Princess until now. I would love to add her to the deck. Problem is, it will be even more difficult finding her (considering several Yu-Gi-Oh! players are low-life, worthless reprobates that are too pathetic to buy the manga and instead open the seal and steal the promotional cards). Sorciere de Fleur seems like a cool idea, but two tributes seems like it would be difficult to pull with this sort of deck.

How do you feel about the Apprentice Engine? As in, Apprentice Magician, and a couple other monsters such as Old Vindictive Magician and Night's End Sorcerer?
 
Hm, I forgot about Crystal Seer. Wonder if I could work in 2-3 Apprentice Magician, 2 Crystal Seer, and 1 Old Vindictive Magician.

how is royal decree good this format? traps aren't exactly at an all time high unless you are a TG magnet or something

Perhaps I should rephrase that. Royal Decree is particularly good this format in my area due to the prevelance of T.G. and other Trap-heavy decks.
 
Hm, I forgot about Crystal Seer. Wonder if I could work in 2-3 Apprentice Magician, 2 Crystal Seer, and 1 Old Vindictive Magician.



Perhaps I should rephrase that. Royal Decree is particularly good this format in my area due to the prevelance of T.G. and other Trap-heavy decks.
I used to run Magicians before Dragunity. Imo, Apprentices + Crystal Seer + Night's End Sorcerer work really well, go for it
 
I been running spellcaster turbo (magical exemplar) been working pretty well turn 2 I made 2 gachi gachi next turn I made a roach and utopia.
 
To promote some discussion I thought I'd show my revised proposed banlist.

Forbidden

Archlord Kristya (easy special summon lock, free 2800 beater, can't be killed, retrieves Honest? what could possibly go wrong?)I would limit it first then see what happens. One of the main issue with Agents is their boss monsters conflict with each. Sometimes Kristya is nuts, sometimes its dead in my experience.
Black Luster Solider - Envoy of the Beginning (why Konami why)I agree.
Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier (I mulled this over for a while, but finally decided that I feel Brio is simply too strong a card and makes OTKs far too easy. also infinite trish loops = bad)This is fine, especially since it is extremely easy to get out and splashable in everything.
Gateway of the Six (again, I don't like infinite loops, and even ignoring the infinite loop its way too easy to get multiple searches + plays off of this thing in a single turn)Samurai is still a solid deck in my opinion, but the deck is barely doing anything right now. When it becomes a problem card, I will re-consider it.
Mind Control (broken card is broken)I agree, especially with Exceeds.
Royal Tribute (still broken even considering Dark Worlds)Banning this would probably hurt the deck beyond belief. Risky considering Dark World. The card is only really nuts turn one and can become dead later in the game when the game is simplified. 3 MST really stunts the consistency that someone can Royal Tribute. You only open up with Royal Tribute first turn with Necrovalley about only 20% of the time. How many of those games do you actually go first? 50%. That essentially means the first turn Royal Tribute happens roughly every 10 games. Wonder Wand makes it slightly more consistent, but Wonder Wand is a card which is more useful when you have board prescense which is usually after you flip Spy. Gravekeeper is still meta, but it hasn't been doing all that great in YCS.
Trap Dustshoot (I think it's been proved time and again that first turn hand control is bad for the game)I personally don't think it deserves to be banned. Mostly for the same reasons of Royal Tribute. I personally understand your concern though because of Pot of Duality, Mind Crush, and chainability is great. Being playable in every deck doesn't help it either. The information is very good, even if it is soft removal and isn't an out to monsters which are already on the board.

Limited

Grapha, Dragon God of Dark World (Dark Worlds badly need nerfs)Maybe in the future, but I wouldnt say now.
Evolkaiser Lagia (it's like solemn judgment only stronger)I think it is a little too early to say.
Leviair the Sea Dragon (powerful ability is powerful, and TG makes it way easy to get out)How many people actually run more than 1 copy? I may be wrong or be thinking of another card, but extra deck space is tight.
Master Hyperion (too strong to leave at three copies)I would probably semi limit it.
Mind Crush (powerful even without Dustshoot)This is fair.
Rescue Rabbit (need for vanillas prevents it from being broken on the level of rescue cat, but still needs to be limited)
Tribe-Infecting Virus (roughly the same level of strength as Dark Hole if not weaker, don't see why this shouldn't get a chance at retesting)I personally don't think it is very broken at all. Fabled isn't top tier right now, and theme decks have evolved to not be killed by this card. Power creep of the game made Snipe Hunter suck, so I don't think TiV would be very broken at all.
Ultimate Offering (ridiculous card, maybe even needs to be banned)I agree with it being limited. Doesn't even kill the decks it is good in.

Semi-Limited

Emergency Teleport (Psychics are dead)This is fair, but might make the psychic engine a little too splashable.
Pot of Duality (not broken but makes a lot of decks a little too consistent imo)It is a very balanced card. Consistency is good. It makes inconsistent decks live, and makes already consistent decks even more consistent. When people limit problem cards like Black Whirlwind, Pot of Duality keeps the deck alive. It is a helper card. It makes decks less flexible, but makes decks more consistent in return
Reborn Tengu (Tengu is a stupid card)This is preference, but I don't think it is as crazy as it was last format. Backrows are smaller, so Tengu doesn't have as much of an impact. Especially with 1 Pot of Avarice.
Tour Guide From the Underworld (no longer broken but instant Sangan / Leviair / Acid Golem is not cool. Nixing to two kind of forces you to run a third lv 3 fiend like dark mimic lv. 3 or something to get the best effect out of it)I agree with this.
The Gates of Dark World (again, DW needs nerfs)Not right now. I would also hit Grapha before hitting their backbone. Grapha is the problem, it is their boss. Their win condition. Gate is just the card which leads to the nutty plays. It is like Formula Synchron. Not the problem, but it is the faciliator card. The card which leads to herp/derp.

Unlimited

Dewlorean, Tiger of the Ice Barrier (assuming Brio banned) (with fishborg gone as well future fusion otks are no longer possible, no reason to keep this semi'd)Agreed.
Magical Stone Excavation (nobody really uses this anymore; two cards is a pretty hefty price)Agreed.
Primal Seed (assuming BLS banned) (useless without BLS, guess it was only limited in the first place to deter usage)Should have never been limited in the first place.


My reactions to Tobes' banlist:



I would also make these additions:

Forbidden:

Morphing Jar
-- ridiculous in Dark Worlds, and has an extremely annoying OTK based around it.This is understandable since it is so easy to get easy pluses in any deck where its good.
Card Destruction -- also ridiculous in Dark Worlds, and potentially ruins any outs your opponent may have.This is fair.
T.G. Hyper Librarian -- This card lets synchro decks (plants in particular) plus multiple times in one turn. Putting it at one really didn't do anything.I agree that putting it at one didn't do all that much. This is fair, but another fix may be possible.
Dandylion -- This card isn't balanced at all. Its tokens are Lonefire fodder and make summoning things like Formula Synchron, Trishula, and Librarian a joke.I agree, especially with Junk Synchron, Debris Dragon, and friends.
Monster Reborn -- I really have no idea why Konami brought this card back.This is fair.

Limited:

Mystical Space Typhoon -- With Heavy Storm at one, this card is way too powerful to be at 3. With all of the boss monsters around, we need to be able to have a reasonably large backrow to slow them down.This is fair. It would make Dark World and Gravekeeper possibly a little too strong though.
Agent of Creation: Venus -- Is potentially a +3 in one turn. Its shine balls also create the infamous Gachi Gachi Gantetsu and are Hyperion/Kristya fodder. Hitting this would balance Agents tremendously.Maybe hit Earth. Once you use Venus, the other Venus become Vannila anyway.
Snoww: Unlight of Dark World -- searches absolutely everything Dark World related. Hit this to hinder the deck's consistency.The deck already has some notable consistency issues. I would rather hit the problem card or cards first before this.
Judgment Dragon -- I hate this card more than anything in this format. It's at 3, comes out of fucking nowhere, and blows up the whole field. If you mill them all, beckoning light can easily put 3 in your hand, in which case your opponent is probably screwed.This is understandable, but Lightsworn haven't been doing all that much if I recall correctly. Putting it at one which literally kill the deck. It already has some issues with 1 Lumina and Charge. Semi limiting is more fair

Also, idk but I think it might be a good idea to hit Super Polymerization. Even if it is a -1 in most instances, it's still annoying as hell since you can't negate it, and uses your own monster (that may have taken effort to summon) as fusion fodder.Maybe.
My thoughts are in bold. Just my opinions. Doesn't mean I am right, but it is how I feel.
 
Judgment Dragon -- I hate this card more than anything in this format. It's at 3, comes out of fucking nowhere, and blows up the whole field. If you mill them all, beckoning light can easily put 3 in your hand, in which case your opponent is probably screwed.This is understandable, but Lightsworn haven't been doing all that much if I recall correctly. Putting it at one which literally kill the deck. It already has some issues with 1 Lumina and Charge. Semi limiting is more fair

I thought about it, and I really wouldn't mind Lumina at 2 if JD goes to 1. It hinders the sacky broken factor of the deck, while increasing its consistency at the same time. The plain fact of the matter is that JD is capable of turning around games for a laughable cost when you get it out, since it can plus multiple times in one turn (symptomatic of bad card design), ruin your opponent's backrow, and proceed to attack your opponent directly. I'm not convinced bringing it to one would kill the deck (especially if Lumina goes to 2), since they have plenty of other boss monsters at their disposal, and it could open up spots for some tech, which could help, considering LS are rather predictable right now.
 
Any Machina Gadget fans around here? I've been playing with a variant of the deck, and find the Ultimate Offering OTK fairly consistent (Steelswarm Roach + Shock Ruler + Utopia + Starlight Road = complete lockdown). Limiter Removal is also a good backup OTK tool. I just find Dark Worlds to be a pain in the ass for the deck because of Grapha, who keeps coming back and runs over Machina Fortress. Machina's effect can actually backfire if Grapha gets discarded, since you may have to discard one of your opponent's Dark World monsters. Outside of DW, Machina Gadgets handle many of the meta decks well.

Just got the missing parts I needed to make a Machina Gadget deck actually, so I'm going to test it out next week at locals!

And yeah DW is a pain, but I will side in shadow-imprisoning mirror, debunk, etc. I guess. Just like I do when I am using X-Sabers. :P

EDIT: Congrats, Stathakis! I wasn't aware you played yu-gi-oh! :P
 
bought a zenmaister tin today for the kristya/duality and pulled a trishula 8)

just had to tell someone

Lucky you.

Breaker the Magical Warrior is pretty good in Machina Gadget. It is a beater which gets over Tengu, and it pops backrow for Machina Fortress. You can pop backrow then use it for xyz fodder too. Good budget card if you can't afford the better stuff like Raiou.
 
So what are your side decks all looking like at the moment, now that DN supports best of 3 matches and side-decking in between?

I've been putting royal decree and crow in every deck so far. Decree shuts down heavy backrow decks like GK and TG and is instant win vs burn (which seems so popular on DN...). Crow because it is amazing vs most the tier decks. Also Maxx C is a must vs. tengu synchro and KMP.
 
I'm glad to see Smogon has duelists. If anyone has any game rule questions, please, PM me. Also, if you see any cards online but you need them translated, PM me with your requests for info as well.
 
So what are your side decks all looking like at the moment, now that DN supports best of 3 matches and side-decking in between?
I side two Cyber Dragons just to get over these anti-meta decks, HERO, Karakuris, and Blackwing decks (why is this even still used).

Also, I use two or three copies of LiM and SiM in the side to destroy Agents and Dark World.
 
It's incredibly broken right now since you get a stupid amount of searching done every single turn. You can swarm, synchro, clear the field, etc, etc. Pretty much the only thing that can stop them is either A. Not drawing ANY monsters or B. Some kind of anti-summon lockdown STUN-ish deck (Rai-Oh, Royal Tribute, Necrovalley all do excellent jobs against it).
 
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