Zoroark

[Benlisted]

Oh, definitely a good point. I just think it might be benificial to take out your threats before they realize you ARE a Dark mon. And this is for VGC, where you have two targets to choose from. Much less switching in and out (unless you're sixonesix).

Precisely lol. Fake Out may make it harder to pull off, but anyway. I have no idea what dominates VGC however, so no HP advice from me sadly.

Incidentally, in the format where you pick 4 of your 6 pokemon to take part in the battle, how does Zoroark work in DS play? Will he copy the pokemon in the 4th slot or that in the 6th (ie one not being used)?

 

[PK Gaming]

My next project is going to be Naive and Rash Zoroarks. I could get 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 30 / 31 Zoroarks really easily using the seed/frames that I've been using. But I'm kind of thinking that HP Flying 70 (30 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 31) might be useful on it, seeing as its weaknesses are Bug and Fighting? Or should I just go for the easy seed/frame I've been using?

A Naive Zoroark is also useful. That way you can make him into a Physical or Special fighter without having to restart. HP Flying is absolutely useless, your hitting Bug types with Flamethrower anyway, and you don't want to be anywhere near Fighting types. I suggest you go for HP Ice, useless for taking down Dragons and other Ice weak Pokemon.

 

[mattj]

This is what I was thinking of:

ZOROARK
"Wolfos"

Focus Sash
Naive and Rash
Illusion
30 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 31 (Hidden Power Flying 70)
248 SAtk / 252 Spd
@L50: 135 / 125 / 80 / 171 / 72 / 172
@L50: 135 / 125 / 80 / 188 / 72 / 157
Night Burst (dual target), HP Flying 70, Sucker Punch, Protect

Opinions? I think that with the proper support, this could be a viable mon. I can do a Timid one when the "Bark Out, wifi event" comes out in February. And probably a Modest one when I capture the parent (though not HP Flying at the moment unless I CGear abuse it *ick*)

I do understand what you mean about HP Ice being more useful because it hits more mons in general, especially in Standard Play. But in VGC, so far, just 4 of the top 10 threats are Kojondo, Roobushin, Erufuun, and Morobareru, all of which pose serious threats in their own way, and all of which are weak to Flying. So it does have it's usefulness (although Ice could be just as useful against other top VGC threats.)

If I'm waaaaay off target, don't hesitate to let me know. I'm just trying to figure out some way to use this for VGC '11.

One question I have is, "what VGC '11 mons completely wall this Zoroark?" Unfortunately, Terrakion comes to mind. :x

 

[masterful]

I don't understand the lack of hype about Zoroark, this thing looks beastly. Basically like a better lucario but with out extremespeed, which is a big deal, however with 105 speed it might not need it.

Illusion sounds great/interesting, they switch out and bring in a counter for something that isn't even in the field of play while you get a nasty plot in and they still don't know it's zoroark.

Quite a deep movepool, maybe lacking on the physical side but how many things can take a +2 nightslash/nightburst? It also has taunt to wreck dedicated walls if you're feeling brave.

It may suffer with mono typing and being really fragile like alakazam, even still it's going to be a threat.

This and you wrote attack twice in the stats if that matters.

Gets revenged by Techniloom incredibly easily

 

[Chou Toshio]

While I'm not a fan of Zoroark in particular, why does everyone use Night Burst > Dark Pulse? I think I'd rather have flawless accuracy than 5 more power (not to mention way more PP). Flinch seems like a better effect too, coming from 105 speed

 

[Altair]

I find that Zoroark's best use is as a lead with Modest and Choice Specs - the basic strategy is to use team preview to see your opponent's lead or likely lead, then switch Zoroark to the lead position and a pokemon that is completely countered by the opponent's probable lead to the sixth position, then proceed to use your Choice Specs-boosted attacks to completely blindside your opponent.

An example of this would be seeing a Tyranitar lead on the opposing team, switching out your Azelf for Zoroark, switching your last pokemon to Celebi, and proceeding to OHKO the Tyranitar with Focus Blast.

Of course there are times when your opponents lead can take a hit from zoroark, in which case just use your normal lead, and times when your opponent will get suspicious enough to outpredict you, but it's been a pretty effective strategy for me thus far.

 

[evolutia]

While I'm not a fan of Zoroark in particular, why does everyone use Night Burst > Dark Pulse? I think I'd rather have flawless accuracy than 5 more power (not to mention way more PP). Flinch seems like a better effect too, coming from 105 speed

I agree. Using Dark Pulse also allows you to feign an illusion longer if you are using a pokemon that can learn Dark Pulse (ie Mew) instead of giving yourself away with the signature.

 

[mattj]

Oh, the only reason I'm thinking of using it is for VGC (doubles). 75% to one target and 75% to the other target (150% total) + what is it, 30% Acc drop to both isn't a bad deal. Yeah it's haxy, but Muddy Water haxed the crap out of pretty much all my opponents at the Atlanta '10 VGC stop (and seriously ticked them off and threw them off their game). The up side, is this has slightly better accuracy (my only gripe with MW). Win win IMO.

[edit]
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff it's single target. I swore Veekun said double.
<< fail

 

[breh]

@ Mattj

Fuck HP flying just use extrasensory

Also would you really want to use Zoroark against Roob?

Hell would you really want to use Erujondo at all? (Unless the meta has changed drastically since I left for a few weeks, it's still mostly goodstuffs/theme teams, isn't it?)

Finally there's really no point in trying to kill Morobareru when it has such amazing defence and you have this measly 70 (or 80) BP attack... it's not going to OHKO (or 2hko, I think), no matter how much you want it to :/

On that note, maybe you're better off just running some different filler? Maybe just run focus blast, taunt, SD... there are loads of possibilities

Finally, how much does LO (also Choice Specs) Max SpA Timid 75% Night Burst do to a variety of TR users? Musharna, Rankurusu, and others are good test chioces.

 

[NC]

While I'm not a fan of Zoroark in particular, why does everyone use Night Burst > Dark Pulse? I think I'd rather have flawless accuracy than 5 more power (not to mention way more PP). Flinch seems like a better effect too, coming from 105 speed

It's like Flamethrower vs Fire Blast, Dark Pulse is more reliable, but Night Burst does average more power per use.

 

[verycoolguy]

A simple set with Substitute and Life Orb really does punch massive holes in teams. I think Substitute would be the best set up move since it offers protection against revenge killing. Another reason why it's great is because every Pokemon has access to Substitute, so when the move is used, it keeps the opponent fooled, as a Nasty Plot on the many, many Pokemon that do not hold the move would give it away to easily.
One Pokemon that appreciates Zoroark as its teammate is Azumarrill. Azumarrill's access to Aqua Jet keeps many Pokemon in check, but Azumarill finds itself walled by the Burungeru/Natorrei core, which Zoroark can easily break with Dark Pulse and Flamethrower. Any Pokemon that would get walled by Steels or Ghosts would appreciate Zoroark's help.

 

[Fluffy Otters]

@ Mattj

Fuck HP flying just use extrasensory

Also would you really want to use Zoroark against Roob?

Hell would you really want to use Erujondo at all? (Unless the meta has changed drastically since I left for a few weeks, it's still mostly goodstuffs/theme teams, isn't it?)

Finally there's really no point in trying to kill Morobareru when it has such amazing defence and you have this measly 70 (or 80) BP attack... it's not going to OHKO (or 2hko, I think), no matter how much you want it to :/

On that note, maybe you're better off just running some different filler? Maybe just run focus blast, taunt, SD... there are loads of possibilities

Finally, how much does LO (also Choice Specs) Max SpA Timid 75% Night Burst do to a variety of TR users? Musharna, Rankurusu, and others are good test chioces.

Are you talking about the Poison Mushroom? A Life Orb/Choice Specs Flamethrower is a 2 hit ko (if they stay in which they won't) and if Choice Specs even if they have Regeneration and somehow accidentally somehow find themselves facing Zoroark again, it is still a 2 hit ko.

Life Orb Night Burst (Before Calm Minds if they use it)
Mushurna (Max hp/No Special Defense): 81.65-96.79% (58.97% ohko Stealth Rock)
Rankurusu (176 Hp/120 SDef): 88.44-99.75% (ohko with no SDef)
Desukan (Max hp/No Special Defense): 103.13-121.88%
Evo Stone Dusclops: (252 Hp/128 SDef): 59.15-69.72%

Choice Specs Night Burst (Before Calm Minds if they use it)
Mushurna (Max hp/No Special Defense): 94.04-111.47% (58.97% ohko)
Rankurusu (176 Hp/120 SDef): 96.79-114.57%
Desukan (Max hp/No Special Defense): 118.13-139.38%
Evo Stone Dusclops: (252 Hp/128 SDef): 66.2-78.87%

 

[breh]

Life Orb Night Burst (Before Calm Minds if they use it)
Mushurna (Max hp/No Special Defense): 81.65-96.79% (58.97% ohko Stealth Rock)
Rankurusu (176 Hp/120 SDef): 88.44-99.75% (ohko with no SDef)
Desukan (Max hp/No Special Defense): 103.13-121.88%
Evo Stone Dusclops: (252 Hp/128 SDef): 59.15-69.72%

Choice Specs Night Burst (Before Calm Minds if they use it)
Mushurna (Max hp/No Special Defense): 94.04-111.47% (58.97% ohko)
Rankurusu (176 Hp/120 SDef): 96.79-114.57%
Desukan (Max hp/No Special Defense): 118.13-139.38%
Evo Stone Dusclops: (252 Hp/128 SDef): 66.2-78.87%

er... are those taking into account the 75% power drop or no? If so (even if not) that's pretty awesome and pretty much only needs helping hand support to KO everything on the field.

Is level 50 taken into account?

Also since these are VGC calcs there's really very little point in adding SR as well.

 

[JRank]

er... are those taking into account the 75% power drop or no? If so (even if not) that's pretty awesome and pretty much only needs helping hand support to KO everything on the field.

Is level 50 taken into account?

Also since these are VGC calcs there's really very little point in adding SR as well.

Actually, breludicolo, mattj was wrong and Night Burst is a single target move, and everyone else knew that, not to bash you or him, but Night Burst only hits one opponent, not two. So the calcs are correct.

 

[Fluffy Otters]

er... are those taking into account the 75% power drop or no? If so (even if not) that's pretty awesome and pretty much only needs helping hand support to KO everything on the field.

Is level 50 taken into account?

Also since these are VGC calcs there's really very little point in adding SR as well.

Wait, I thought you were talking standard single battle lv100.

 

[Jabberjaw]

While I'm not a fan of Zoroark in particular, why does everyone use Night Burst > Dark Pulse? I think I'd rather have flawless accuracy than 5 more power (not to mention way more PP). Flinch seems like a better effect too, coming from 105 speed

I prefer night burst for the higher power and chance of accuracy loss on the side of the opponent.

Usually when I bring in Zoroark, it's disguised as something that will make the opponent wanna hit me with a resisted to neutral hit while I NP(or you can SD), then with minimal HP loss... attempt the sweeeeeeeep. Flamethrower is so fun on this guy... those poor steel types... looking at your nattorei... you too scizor...

 

[TSPhoenix]

Honestly the thing that suprises me most about Zoroark is how hard opponents find it to predict. You would think with team preview that when a Lucario switches into a Shandera that they'd wise up but alas no.

While I'm not a fan of Zoroark in particular, why does everyone use Night Burst > Dark Pulse? I think I'd rather have flawless accuracy than 5 more power (not to mention way more PP). Flinch seems like a better effect too, coming from 105 speed

Taking the flinch into account you get a 4% boost to damage output overall anyway. With Night burst you only do 1% more after taking accuracy into account.

Of course Dark Pulse will never miss meaning you won't lose any critical kills which can happen with Night Burst.

Flinch is far better considering Illusion and Zoroark's lack of bulk.

That and other things actually learn Dark Pulse.

 

[Jaroda]

The point is, using Night Burst sends up the red flag that you are using Zoroark. Whereas if you are disguising yourself as something that is capable of using Dark Pulse, aka Gengar, then you can keep the facade going that much longer. Not to mention the power/accuracy difference between the two compared to say Fire Blast and Flamethrower is way more minuscule. Dark Pulse seems like the winner as long as you are using a pokemon that is capable of using the move and even if it can't Night Burst is questionable since flinch is more likely a better side effect.

 

[Boomguy]

I like using Mismagius or any Psychic pokemon to use Illusion with. I'd rather have Dark pulse. Perfect counter againest that Steel/Grass pokemon

 

[Green Thunder]

The point is, using Night Burst sends up the red flag that you are using Zoroark. Whereas if you are disguising yourself as something that is capable of using Dark Pulse, aka Gengar, then you can keep the facade going that much longer. Not to mention the power/accuracy difference between the two compared to say Fire Blast and Flamethrower is way more minuscule. Dark Pulse seems like the winner as long as you are using a pokemon that is capable of using the move and even if it can't Night Burst is questionable since flinch is more likely a better side effect.

I'm sorry,but what idiot would fall for a gengar using dark pulse!? And IMO 40%>10%...that accuracy on night burst pisses me off though... I wold say they were about even.

Merry Christmas peoples!

 

[Fluffy Otters]

I'm sorry,but what idiot would fall for a gengar using dark pulse!? And IMO 40%>10%...that accuracy on night burst pisses me off though... I wold say they were about even.

Merry Christmas peoples!

How could the accuracy irritate people? Isn't it 95%? Like 5% accuracy for 5 extra power and the chance to lower accuracy instead of flinch? It can't be like Stone Edge or sometimes Megahorn/Meteor Mash.

And yeah, no Gengar would ever use Dark Pulse unless it was Zoroark. If it uses Dark Pulse, it would break the illusion of it being Gengar (unless you really are carrying Dark Pulse on Gengar just to mess with people as they send in Breloom/Roopushin and try to Mach Punch you) so you might as well Night Burst since after a boost, it could potentially make a difference (not usually but it can like having a greater chance of ohkoing Gyrados or something after Nasty Plot, 53>15% from Night Burst).

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I don't understand why they gave it a signature move. It's only 5 points stronger than Dark Pulse, and using it immediately tips the foe off that it's a Zoroark.

 

[A e t h e r]

I don't understand why they gave it a signature move. It's only 5 points stronger than Dark Pulse, and using it immediately tips the foe off that it's a Zoroark.

A lot of Pokemon have signature moves with questionable usage. I however, find Night Burst quite useful. Most Pokemon that pair well with Zoroark that learn Dark Pulse usually end up sending a red alarm to your opponent from what I've seen.

It's just a matter of preference, tbh.

 

[raike1028]

i Guess a Choice Specs Set with
Dark Pulse
focus Blast
flametrower
Grass knot
can work really well and with illusion it will be really hard to know when zoroark its on the field i'll try it and see how it works

 

[googlyeyesultra]

Physically based mix-Zoroark is actually one of the best supporters in the game. I've been running a LO set with Sucker Punch/Pursuit/U-turn/Flamethrower and you can quite frankly pretend to be a ton of things before surprising something with a pursuit or sucker punch. Strong priority, STAB pursuit, and a quick u-turn are also hugely useful. Depending on your team you could trade flamethrower for another attack, but regrettably his physical movepool lacks anything else terribly interesting, so it'd probably be flamethrower/grass knot/something like that. Naive, 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpAtk.

Some of the best things to disguise as:
Gliscor (uturn, also resists your weaknesses and is neutral to SR. Don't run toxic orb.)
Infernape (Flamethrower and uturn, neutral to SR, resists bug)
Scizor (Pursuit and uturn, resists bug, neutral to SR)
Latios (Blissey comes in and eats a uturn, nattorei comes in and eats a flamethrower, etc, also neutral to SR and resists fighting)
Tentacruel (Resists your weaknesses, lures spinblockers for you to pursuit, can spin to get rid of SR later to help ease uturn damage)

Obviously you'll want to pack a rock resist somewhere. Physical Zoro is really, really good, though, easily being able to pretend to be infernape by spamming Uturn the whole game, then picking off an infernape counter later on with pursuit or sucker punch. Then you get to bring out your actual infernape (with a completely different moveset) and clean up. Same applies with a lot of other uturners and stuff like that.