u know, Skymin only has 120 speed. It has 127 SPA. Check on Serebii here: http://www.serebii.net/platinum/forms.shtml
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Skymin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter 1059860
- Start date
bullet punch metagross and sucker punch spiritomb. CB scizor with quick attack works the same way as metagross. also pretty much anything with a priority move can revenge kill it with ease (dugtrio comes to mind)
@zxn I'm pretty sure that's a typo becuase if you go to their pokedex it says 127 speed and 120 spA
I already use Registeel, so I'm not that concerned. But it does indeed look like a force to be reconed with. This is going to be like Garchomp where if you don't have a counter for it on your team, you kinda get screwed over. But I can't wait to test against it :)
I never said it should be OU, what are you talking about.
I was using it as a comparison to skymin. having OU counters doesn't make something OU.
I think it would be like Manaphy in Ubers though, where it sees little to no use, and would be able to function better without completely overcentralizing the OU game.
The first few months of competitive Platinum, you'll see Skymin on every team, but I think eventually people will figure a better way to stop it and it may not be used as much
The first few months of competitive Platinum, you'll see Skymin on every team, but I think eventually people will figure a better way to stop it and it may not be used as much
I think comparing Pokémon 'x' to Pokémon 'y' is stupid because each Pokémon has different typing, stats, and moves that makes each other unique. Really the only way to efficiently come to a conclusion is to test it since there is lots of controversey about whether this Pokémon should be placed in Uber or OU.
Theorymon will only get you so far.
I remember the hype in early D/P about SpecsMence, Ryhperior, and Tyranitar being Uber because everyone was only applying theorymon to the situation.
Theorymon will only get you so far.
I remember the hype in early D/P about SpecsMence, Ryhperior, and Tyranitar being Uber because everyone was only applying theorymon to the situation.
or how about i run a life orb set with sub/seed flare/air slash/HP ground. Point taken about Deoxys-A, it was just the first thing that came to mind.
It would be better if you put Seed Flare over Growth. SubSeed sets cause so much havoc. Seed Flare can only make it more annoying. Look at it this way: Would you rather cut their SpD in half or increase your SpA by x1.5? I used this Shaymin with success in DP:
Shaymin @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Moves:
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power Fire
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
I see no reason why this couldn't be largely successful if you swap Hidden Power Fire out for Air Slash or Hidden Power Ground.
Captain Falcon: Because Life Orb + Sub = Dead Skymin after it gets SR'd, Subs then attacks. Thats 2 turns of 60% damage, not very good.
Kevie: I think Growth + Air Slash works better, just because it allows a flinch to get in atleast once, because it is so fast, and it can still increase power. It functions like CM Jirachi, Minus the +SDef, great typing, and the bulk, but +Power, Speed and Leech Seed
Kevie: I think Growth + Air Slash works better, just because it allows a flinch to get in atleast once, because it is so fast, and it can still increase power. It functions like CM Jirachi, Minus the +SDef, great typing, and the bulk, but +Power, Speed and Leech Seed
Tell me how much speed it has on its Dex page please?
Sure Sub might let you see what the opponent switches in and still be safely behind a Sub but wouldn't you think that Growth world work better than Substitute on this set for extended sweeping potential mid-late game?
If you want to use Sub you may as well just end up using the SubSeeding set anyways except replacing Life Orb with Leftovers.
I think the best Life Orb set would be:
Move 1: Growth
Move 2: Seed Flare
Move 3: Air Slash
Move 4: Hidden Power [Ground]
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 HP
Because growth actually keeps the boost power if even the opponent dies, drops goes away with the monster, so as a sweeper, boost>drop.
I don't know if anyone's run damage calcs on Skymin yet but I stumbled across a damage calculator in the BL/UU thread (thanks to skiddle for posting - http://ownpurpose.com/damage_calculator_test.php)
I have tried my best to get used to it using the Skymin stats from Serebii (get the salt shaker out) which say that on both defence stats a neutral nature minimum is 155, so with a 31 IV that makes 186 (which is what I used in all the calcs, along with max HP) :
Jolly Aerodactyl with 252 Attack EVs and Life Orb using Ice Fang on 252 HP/0 Def 4x weak Sky Shaymin :
Percentages: min:100% avg:107.92% max:117.82%
OHKO...barely (minimum does exactly 404 damage). SashDactyl OHKOs with Stealth Rock.
Timid Jolteon with 252 SpAtk EVs and Choice Specs using HP Ice on 252 HP / 0 SpDef Sky Shaymin:
Percentages: min:128.71% avg:138.61% max:151.49%
Without Choice Specs, you need SR up to OHKO.
Hasty Deoxys-E with Life Orb and 252 SpAtk EVs using Ice Beam on the same Shaymin:
Percentages: min:135.64% avg:147.52% max:160.4%
The only other OU viables who would outspeed Skymin without the use of Scarf are Crobat and Ninjask. You could check out Crobat using Air Slash/Aerial Ace/Sludge Bomb with various items and boosts.
I have not tested Weavile Ice Shard though I imagine it will be a OHKO...barring Substitute. And Mamoswine is more powerful than Weavile.
As I said, take this with a fair pinch of salt, as I'm not used to the calculator and I can't say for certain I used it right. But apparently this calculator is proven to be accurate.
Basically, Skymin IS counterable, but it is still quite bulky (especially if it runs Yache, which has not been accounted for), and needs specific counters, it seems. I still say Uber. but we shall see.
I have tried my best to get used to it using the Skymin stats from Serebii (get the salt shaker out) which say that on both defence stats a neutral nature minimum is 155, so with a 31 IV that makes 186 (which is what I used in all the calcs, along with max HP) :
Jolly Aerodactyl with 252 Attack EVs and Life Orb using Ice Fang on 252 HP/0 Def 4x weak Sky Shaymin :
Percentages: min:100% avg:107.92% max:117.82%
OHKO...barely (minimum does exactly 404 damage). SashDactyl OHKOs with Stealth Rock.
Timid Jolteon with 252 SpAtk EVs and Choice Specs using HP Ice on 252 HP / 0 SpDef Sky Shaymin:
Percentages: min:128.71% avg:138.61% max:151.49%
Without Choice Specs, you need SR up to OHKO.
Hasty Deoxys-E with Life Orb and 252 SpAtk EVs using Ice Beam on the same Shaymin:
Percentages: min:135.64% avg:147.52% max:160.4%
The only other OU viables who would outspeed Skymin without the use of Scarf are Crobat and Ninjask. You could check out Crobat using Air Slash/Aerial Ace/Sludge Bomb with various items and boosts.
I have not tested Weavile Ice Shard though I imagine it will be a OHKO...barring Substitute. And Mamoswine is more powerful than Weavile.
As I said, take this with a fair pinch of salt, as I'm not used to the calculator and I can't say for certain I used it right. But apparently this calculator is proven to be accurate.
Basically, Skymin IS counterable, but it is still quite bulky (especially if it runs Yache, which has not been accounted for), and needs specific counters, it seems. I still say Uber. but we shall see.
Seed Flare is a good attack, but I had two major reasons against using it in the set I listed. The first, it doesn't lower the Special Defense of pokemon with the Clear Body ability, namely Pokemon like Registeel, Regice, and Metagross. Sure, HP Fire could hurt Metagross and Registeel, but with no EVs in special attack it won't KO in time before it gets knocked out itself. Plus, the Fire/Grass combo really allows Heatran to walk all over you; Grass/Ground nets you worse coverage and allows Flying types and levitators a free switch in.
The second reason is its small PP amount and it's accuracy. With its accuracy factored in, it only (lol I'm making it sound so subpar) has a 68% chance to both hit and inflict the Special Attack drop. Plus with popular Pressure stallers like Zapdos, Suicune, Weavile, and Spiritomb around, Seed Flare will usually end up wasted.
With Growth, you can invest in HP EV's without feeling the loss in the long run; it also sets up for a sweep, whereas with Seed Flare you're only going to stall with it or go for a quick hit and run. Air Slash is really better overall for sweeping with its better PP and its amazing flinching side effect is resisted only by a choice few (Dragonite, Lucario, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Deoxsys-S, and Electrode, off the top of my head). Plus, no type is immune to it, and it deals with Grass types that try to nullify the Leech Seed.
Ah, I didn't know that.
Remember 80% accuracy though.
And Regice (somewhat).
Raj
CAP Playtesting Expert
I think someting along the lines of Seed Flare, Air Slash, HP whatever, Quick Attack would be good. Remember, this thing may have a focus on SP Att, but LO Quick Attack may not be so bad. I mean, it's movepool is for the most part limited, are you gonna have Seed Flare and Leaf Storm? No.
Yeah, I'm sure Registeel can do much while Skymin hides behind a sub with leftovers recovery, slowly sapping its life away with leech seed while attacking with a STAB Air Slash with 60% flinching. Not to mention it can also boost its special attack with Growth.
Registeel can Ice Punch Shaymin-S, and explode when it's done.
Also I'm beginning to see the usefulness of Aerodactyl. Outspeeds Shaymin-S, can Taunt to stop SubSeed, can hit with a SE STAB attack, resists Air Slash, is immune to HP:Ground and HP:Fire is NVE against it. And I'm sure it could take a Seed Flare, in Sandstorm at least...or most likely not.
Ice Punch can't even break Skymin's sub if it's running HP EV's, and good luck trying to even use it with a 40% chance of moving.
Aerodactyl seems like a potential counter, but if Skymin has a sub up and air slashes when Aerodactyl switches in, Aero's done.
EDIT: It won't even need a sub if it Air Slashes his switch in with Stealth Rocks up.
Aerodactyl seems like a potential counter, but if Skymin has a sub up and air slashes when Aerodactyl switches in, Aero's done.
EDIT: It won't even need a sub if it Air Slashes his switch in with Stealth Rocks up.
Yeah, that's right I forgot to add type bonus. Still, sub+leech seed+leftovers+flinch more than makes up for it.
I made that set a few pages back. I reckon it could work well... although I didn't use LO because Sub + LO recoil = a LOT of drained HP. It could still work, but you'd only ever get one sub out of it unless you manage to get Wish into it, and that wouldn't be practical at all times of the game.