Cloyster is the most used Ice-type in 5th gen OU-DW tier, i think that it deserve a mention.
I disagree. With improved Wish and Magic Coat mechanics, it's easier to keep up Abomasnow's health up (and SR off). Abomasnow still walls Bulky Waters with its SubSeed set, which also handily keeps its HP up. Abomasnow can also switch in on unsuspecting Doryuuzu.The point of Hail in gen 5 is putting a stop to Swift Swif, Sand Throw and Clorophyll pokemon.
You need a backup Hail user holding an Icy Rock in Gen 5, period. Abomasnow is not capable of switching in several times during the match and the best way to stop an opposing weather team which relies on speed boosts is Hail, which effectively makes otherwise dangerous pokemon like Doryuzuu a complete joke..
Yeah if you don't use a weather themed team i think its actually a pretty good idea to sacrifice a move slot on something bulky to stop the enemy weather.The point of Hail in gen 5 is putting a stop to Swift Swif, Sand Throw and Clorophyll pokemon.
You need a backup Hail user holding an Icy Rock in Gen 5, period. Abomasnow is not capable of switching in several times during the match and the best way to stop an opposing weather team which relies on speed boosts is Hail, which effectively makes otherwise dangerous pokemon like Doryuzuu a complete joke.
Abomasnow can easily deal with Hippodown and Politoed, but it's completely murdered by Ninetales and Tyranitar so your backup Hail user of choice needs to be able to handle them.
Suicune can fit this role well since it can take advantage of 100% accurate Blizzard and it can scare Tyranitar and Ninetales away with its STAB.
Please do not start complaining about how Hail is a "waste of a moveslot" because, in Gen 5, it's not.
Cloud Nine pokemon are predictable and any self-respecting offensive weather team has a way to deal with those, but nobody expects a random hail, which is why it's a much more effective way to stop such teams.
Cloyster sounds like junk for a hail team. Someone be a fabulous person and prove me wrong, because I would love to believe that he would make an amazing addition.To elaborate on the above posts: Cloyster can be a fine choice on offensive hail teams which rely on the extra ~6% damage to secure vital KOs. However I'm not too good with the calcs and such, so I can't really think of any situation where that would be needed. If you're not using Cloyster because of that, then it just gives you an additional fighting- and rock- type weakness, while sharing the same typing with Walrein. In other words, disastrous for synergy.
Zapdos shares the rock-weakness with Abomasnow and Walrein, but there is a point going there for DW Zapdos which can take electric-type attacks aimed at Walrein to redeem its Satk boost courtesy of Lightningrod.
Nidoqueen is an interesting point there as it can provide BOTH Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, while resisting fighting- and rock-type moves. I think there was a really successful RMT back in Gen IV that used Nidoqueen on a hail team; if I remember correctly it's featured somewhere in one of the Smog issues. Utility-wise, Nidoqueen is a fine choice with its dual roles and unique typing. Also, its DW ability Encourage grants a 1.3 boost on attacks with secondary percentage chances while cancelling LO recoil for that move. This means Nidoqueen can fire off 100% accurate, 203 base power Blizzards under hail. :D
Shed Shell has been added after I personally tested out that item as well as the combination you mentioned, it worked wonderfully.Great write up. Although hail hasn't gotten much this gen I believe that mamoswine and abamosnow are even better in this current meta. You might want to mention shed-shell up in your post about abamosnow. I know you put it in your shandera threat post, but I really believe that it is a necessary item. It also is great for setting up a flash fire boost for heatran.
Secondly I think that froslass works better with a choice specs set. Trick has saved me several times, Thunderbolt, shadow ball, and blizzard is what I ran.
Because I'm a moron who when writing this spent three days staying up until 2am and forgot to brush the article with a fine tooth comb when I was done d:One question, why is HP Ground listed for Heatran when it has Earth Power?
That's actually very helpful, as I can just copy and paste posts like these into the first post, which means less writing for me to do d:Wow, very nice OP. I was going to suggest Moltres, but I see that you already have it in the list of things to come. I ran a Moltres on my hail stall in gen4, and it was incredibly useful. I needed something to handle Infernape, Metagross, and Heatran, but Tentacruel just couldn't repeatedly switch into any of them. Moltres stopped all of those dead in their tracks, albeit it does have to resort to PP stalling Heatran lol.
[pimg]146[/pimg]
Moltres @ Leftovers Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Substitute
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp
The given EVs outspeed max speed Jolly Breloom so you can fry it or sub before it pulls any funny business. You have to be careful about Blaziken, as Stone Edge isn't exactly rare, but if they're running both Protect and Swords Dance, chances are they're not using Stone Edge. If you have a sub before Blaziken comes in, you can also easily stall out Stone Edge's 4 PP. Also, if you're looking to beat max speed Timid Heatran with HP [Ground] or something in the last slot instead, Moltres can actually do so while still running Bold, but you will need max speed. This isn't recommended as it does take away a lot of physical survivability against the likes of Lucario, Infernape, Metagross, and friends.
Hope it helps :)
Problem with both of these is that they both fear Roobusin.
Ability: Snow Warning
Item: Shed Shell
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
+
Ability: Flash Fire
Item: Balloon
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
I've been trying these two out together and I have to say I absolutely love it. If the opponent runs Shanderra, Abomasnow can lure him out and then escape, letting Heatran jump in and get a Flash Fire boost, letting him set ablaze whomever is sent in next, or take advantage of the situation and set up Stealth Rock. Even without Shanderra on the opponents team, Heatran is still fabulous at taking Fire attacks aimed towards Abomasnow.
I've updated the first post; what's been changed is in the spoiler box at the bottom. I was hoping for a little more discussion since its been a while and people have had time to try things out that work for them.
Which is why should not switch Abomasnow out to Heatran with Roobushin out front, and rather, one of the four other members on your team that can deal with him d:
Also; 252 Hp Roobushin is roasted by Flash Fire boosted Heatran: 100.7% - 118.8%
Can you elaborate?Personally I think a Abosmasnow with Shandera is broken. They make such a great team together.
You mean explain why, right?Can you elaborate?
Tyranitar wants a word with both of them.Personally I think a Abosmasnow with Shandera is broken. They make such a great team together.
HP Fighting would like word with T-tar.Tyranitar wants a word with both of them.