np: XY UU Stage 0 - I Lived

[pokemonisfun]

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 192 Atk / 188 HP / 60 SDef / 68 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Substitute

I find this Zygarde set to be my favorite. It has 101 subs and enough speed to beat Adamant Honchkrow. I think the extra spdef is for surviving someone's scald I do not quite remember already oops. Having so much attack (more than Jolly max Zygarde) means your Earthquake do a load of damage to anything weak to it except Aggron and Rhyperior and anything with weak defense like Florges. However the attack gives the most utility in Extremespeed with does enough to KO anything at low health (like in the low 30s) for the most part. Bronzong and Chesnaught are all set up fodder as is Hippo and sort of Aggron and Rhyperior in last poke situations which is fantastic.

Lack of dragon moves really hurts because you can't do too much damage to Latias or Zapdos or Hydregion without a lot of boosts but its ok because they for the most part are terrified of you using a Dragon move still until you reveal all 4 moves by which point it may be too late.


I'm sort of happy with Latias because it has lots of utility being immune to Ground and having defog with a lot of resists. Its pretty strong too with LO but not really wall breaking strong because all her moves are kind of middling in terms of BP except Draco Meteor which has obvious drawbacks. I'm not sure if a CM set is going to be terribly useful on Latias unless you have defog somewhere else since she is cramped for moveslots and her speed means she has little chance of outspeeding an entire team.

Hydregion is really cool with Dark Pulse hitting Steels for good or really good (Jirachi, Metagross) damage now. U-Turn is good on any set and Superpower lets it wallbreak better than Latias usually. It just doesn't have enough speed to sweep or enough attack to reliably wall break since Umbreon and Chansey can both easily tank one Superpower after some prior damage (like a Dark Pulse). Also Florges ruins his day.

 

[atomicllamas]

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 192 Atk / 188 HP / 60 SDef / 68 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Substitute

I find this Zygarde set to be my favorite. It has 101 subs and enough speed to beat Adamant Honchkrow. I think the extra spdef is for surviving someone's scald I do not quite remember already oops. Having so much attack (more than Jolly max Zygarde) means your Earthquake do a load of damage to anything weak to it except Aggron and Rhyperior and anything with weak defense like Florges. However the attack gives the most utility in Extremespeed with does enough to KO anything at low health (like in the low 30s) for the most part. Bronzong and Chesnaught are all set up fodder as is Hippo and sort of Aggron and Rhyperior in last poke situations which is fantastic.

Yes! Sub Coil Zygarde is super cool and underrated right now. One thing that I definitely think should be on all Sub Coil Zygardes is the move Dragon Tail (in this case over Extreme Speed), because it allows Zygarde to phaze out phazers before they can roar / whirlwind him away. It also has really good coverage hitting everything barring Bronzong and Togetic for neutral damage (yes I actually saw someone using a Togetic on the ladder @_@). Either way though, you can drop the speed you need to hit beat adamant Honchkrow because you are outspeeding it with E speed, or underspeeding it with D-tail so it seems to be an irrelevant bench mark either way (you aren't gonna set up on Honchkrow either so idk, seems pointless). I would personally invest the extra EVs in SpD because it has pretty good typing and defenses allowing it to set up more subs and keep them up against special threats.

 

[Schpoonman]

Actually, you absolutely could set up on Honchkrow. Zygarde has insane physical bulk, and after only two Coils Life Orb Brave Bird fails to 3HKO.

 

[Ununhexium]

Honchkrow is pretty bad imo. He had a tough run last gen and it will be tougher this gen. He has a bit of breloom syndrome and zygarde could easily set up in his face. I never used zygarde but I have watched battles and did a bit of theorymonning myself and it seems good. The only bad thing about him is that his ability sucks. I guess it is supposed to counter Xerneas and Yveltal but outside of ubers it sucks.

Tl;dr Zygarde is good even though his ability sucks.

 

[radianthero156]

what? honchkrow is still a beast, the fact that it can't kill zygarde means nothing, because A LOT of stuff can't kill it. honchkrow's brave bird still does a ton to everything

 

[TM13IceBeam]

with the feb usage results released, i suppose it'll be a good idea to talk about them now

UU Banlist:
Aegislash, Alakazam, Azumarill, Bisharp, Blissey, Breloom, Charizard, Clefable, Cloyster, Conkeldurr, Donphan, Dragonite, Espeon, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Galvantula, Garchomp, Genesect, Gengar, Gliscor, Goodra, Greninja, Gyarados, Heatran, Infernape, Klefki, Landorus-Therian, Latios, Lucario, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Mawile, Pinsir, Rotom-Wash, Sableye, Salamence, Scizor, Skarmory, Smeargle, Starmie, Sylveon, Talonflame, Tentacruel, Thundurus, Togekiss, Trevenant, Tyranitar, Venusaur, Volcarona

yeah wtf starmie donphan tentacruel forretress just get your ass down already (tldr nobody dropped or rose)

| 1 | Blastoise | 14.84873% | 114926 | 13.724% | 95734 | 13.911% |

Expected. Pretty strong, very reliable rapid spinner. It'll be a shame to see him go if he eventually rises.

| 2 | Florges | 13.88446% | 105029 | 12.542% | 86321 | 12.543% |

Another expected one. Florges is stupidly amazing in this metagame as a more offensive special wall compared to Chansey, and her Fairy typing counters a lot of the dragons in the tier.

| 6 | Umbreon | 11.34937% | 94407 | 11.274% | 77473 | 11.257% |

Very surprising o_O Umbreon isn't a top-tier Pokemon by any means imo, but he's still pretty effective at his job I suppose.

| 12 | Jirachi | 9.40178% | 72372 | 8.642% | 60582 | 8.803% |

The only newcomer who didn't get banned (dgaf about kanga), has a pretty high usage for her first month in UU. Looking forward to it as a staple.

| 21 | Tornadus-Therian | 8.19206% | 62021 | 7.406% | 53940 | 7.838% |

Wasn't this in the 40s last month or something? Anyway, good to see that more ppl are catching on to Tornadus. A very effective Pokemon in this metagame imo.

| 57 | Shuckle | 3.19769% | 27210 | 3.249% | 25051 | 3.640% |

rofl web

| 65 | Zygarde | 2.91189% | 20057 | 2.395% | 16145 | 2.346% | 
| 70 | Exploud | 2.77194% | 24515 | 2.927% | 18811 | 2.733% |
| 72 | Entei | 2.48463% | 16819 | 2.008% | 13852 | 2.013% | 
| 73 | Reuniclus | 2.25919% | 18545 | 2.215% | 14517 | 2.109% | 
| 82 | Escavalier | 1.87129% | 13143 | 1.569% | 11469 | 1.667% |
| 95 | Kyurem | 1.54714% | 10748 | 1.283% | 8112 | 1.179% |
| 97 | Shaymin | 1.41163% | 9958 | 1.189% | 7985 | 1.160% |

How are these guys lower than shuckle wtf

| 123 | Landorus | 1.02883% | 6572 | 0.785% | 5247 | 0.762% |

Very high amount of usage for a Pokemon that was legal for like, 2 days? rip landorus good riddance

 

[Shiny Minun]

It's worth noting that umbreons previously lackluster type is an amazing defensive type now. Dark being the only type that resists dark and ghost, which happen to be the holes of many cores lately. The mechanic changes of gen 6 have really made dark type as a whole way more usable. And the lack of defensive options leaving people using things like krookidile or hydreigon as tanks.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Why is houndoom so low for a S Rank? It deserves more usage as it tears through defensive cores besides those with Chansey. Really good NP sweeper, and I think it is in RU range. Kyurem is really good and fun to use. The SubRoost set especially.

 

[-Karmy]

Honchkrow is pretty bad imo. He had a tough run last gen and it will be tougher this gen. He has a bit of breloom syndrome and zygarde could easily set up in his face. I never used zygarde but I have watched battles and did a bit of theorymonning myself and it seems good. The only bad thing about him is that his ability sucks. I guess it is supposed to counter Xerneas and Yveltal but outside of ubers it sucks.

Tl;dr Zygarde is good even though his ability sucks.

Been using Honchkrow for quite a few battles now, and I can say he does work well if played right. Though it may not OHKO zygarde and other tanks with no boosts, they cant switch in fear of 2HKO after rocks. But one thing Honchkrow has going for it is moxie. Which means it can KO something, depending on the Zygarde set, have a 25% chance to KO Max Hp Zygarde, or leave a massive amount of damage for something else to finish it off with.

 

[skies]

Shh, let's not talk about Kyurem, it's too good and I don't want it out of this tier :[

 

[Shiny Minun]

Why is houndoom so low for a S Rank? It deserves more usage as it tears through defensive cores besides those with Chansey. Really good NP sweeper, and I think it is in RU range. Kyurem is really good and fun to use. The SubRoost set especially.

Special attackers are not allowed till chansey gets BL'd

Very simple answer.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Are you guys actually serious? There are like a crap ton of ways to get past Chansey which isn't even unequivocally the best special defender in the tier anymore because Florges and a whole load of Assault Vest Pokemon that can patch up a team's special bulk without having to resort to Chansey.

Every time Chansey comes in it is going to take some damage because well that's just how Pokemon works. If it wants to do anything other than heal then it won't ever get any of the health back because no Leftover's. If it wants to heal then fine fantastic you are probably giving your oppoennt a free switch.

There are so many special attackers that can beat Chansey one on one or if she tries to counter them including SubCM Chandelure SubRoost Kyurem Crocune Nasty Plot Houndoom CM Psyshock Latias Superpower Hydregion CM Reuniclus Keldeo. Those are just the ones I could think of in less than a minute. Thats not to mention the ones that cannot beat CHansey still maintain momentum with Volturn and U-Turn half the time with guys like Ampharos and Zapdos and Manetric and Tornadus.

I would go as far as to say Chansey can only counter a minority of UU's special attackers reliably. And then realize that as a defender CHansey's only role is to counter Pokemon.

If she can counter less than half of all UU special attackers I can hardly imagine she has more success in countering physical threats.

edit: oh and Knock Off is kind of a big deal imo
tldr Chansey is not actually stopping most special threats

 

[newfren]

FYI Chansey can actually beat superpower hydreigon because it can wishtect on the superpowers.

252+ Atk Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 328-386 (46.5 - 54.8%)

It can do a maximum of 54.8% to the chansey and that's using a pretty awful spread on the Hydreigon. Then the atk drop means it doesn't even 2hko.

Also and I can't be bothered calcing this, but I feel like subroost kyurem can do basically nothing to chansey while it wishtects. I mean sure chansey can't do shit back but it's not like kyurem is busting through anytime soon.

As for NPDoom Chansey can ruin its day with seismic toss pretty well even if it gets the NP on the switch in to chansey:

+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 243-286 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

While chansey does 34% back.

I mean hopefully chansey will have been weakened by the point you're setting up the NPDoom and you can just run through her, but chansey can actually wishtect on a lot of things.

Sure she's not as bad as she used to be with knock off everywhere and a few more powerful special threats in the tier that can actually bust through her but you're really selling her short.

 

[skies]

Are you guys actually serious? There are like a crap ton of ways to get past Chansey which isn't even unequivocally the best special defender in the tier anymore because Florges and a whole load of Assault Vest Pokemon that can patch up a team's special bulk without having to resort to Chansey.

Every time Chansey comes in it is going to take some damage because well that's just how Pokemon works. If it wants to do anything other than heal then it won't ever get any of the health back because no Leftover's. If it wants to heal then fine fantastic you are probably giving your oppoennt a free switch.

There are so many special attackers that can beat Chansey one on one or if she tries to counter them including SubCM Chandelure SubRoost Kyurem Crocune Nasty Plot Houndoom CM Psyshock Latias Superpower Hydregion CM Reuniclus Keldeo. Those are just the ones I could think of in less than a minute. Thats not to mention the ones that cannot beat CHansey still maintain momentum with Volturn and U-Turn half the time with guys like Ampharos and Zapdos and Manetric and Tornadus.

I would go as far as to say Chansey can only counter a minority of UU's special attackers reliably. And then realize that as a defender CHansey's only role is to counter Pokemon.

If she can counter less than half of all UU special attackers I can hardly imagine she has more success in countering physical threats.

edit: oh and Knock Off is kind of a big deal imo
tldr Chansey is not actually stopping most special threats

+6 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 387-456 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 178-211 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun on a critical hit: 552-649 (85.9 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+5 252 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 538-634 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 548-648 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 79-94 (12.3 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Hydreigon Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 238-282 (37 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 76-91 (11.8 - 14.1%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 58-69 (9 - 10.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 60-72 (9.3 - 11.2%) -- possible 9HKO
+4 4 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 539-637 (83.9 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 4 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 553-652 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Seriously, what Special Attackers can beat it? I'm genuinely curious as to what Special Attackers you believe can easily get through Chansey? What does it not counter on the Special side? Knock Off may have fucked it over, but that doesn't mean it is horrible. Seriously, it fits on a lot of teams that aren't HO, as it brings to the table fantastic bulk, huge Wishes, and very great support from Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, Toxic, all the way to even Stealth Rock.
Oh, and just for the record:
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 398-470 (61.9 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 488-576 (76 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 474-560 (73.8 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 554-654 (86.2 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Chansey still walls a shit ton of things, and I would definitely not say Flroges outclasses it, as it has far less bulk (compare 642 HP > 360 HP, 178 Def < 258, and 463 SpD > 346 SpD with spreads of 4/252+/252 for Chansey and 252/252+/4 for Florges. It does have a better typing, but that doesn't mean it is light years better than Chansey. And Assault Vest users usually can't heal themselves, meaning they actually don't have better bulk. Just for the record, actually, the only AV user that comes close to Chansey's bulk is Latias lol. Assault Vest users don't have the sheer walling capability that Chansey does.

EDIT:

Guys, don't run that shit spread of 252 HP / 252 Def+ / 4 SpD, it has far less bulk than 4 HP / 252 Def+ / 252 SpD!

 

[TM13IceBeam]

the whole idea of subroost kyurem is so that the opposition isn't supposed to be able to do anything to you: meanwhile you PP stall chansey out of seismic toss with pressure and pretty much laugh forever at a chansey that can't touch you at all outside of toxic (which chansey is very hard pressed to run: i actually tried SR chansey and chansey really really has issues running SR and it feels like deadweight imo when it can't wishtect or support my team with 350hp wishes)

 

[Shiny Minun]

edit: totally greninja'd by Chestnaught

basically anything that isn't a dedicated physical attacker, chansey gon wall.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Has anyone else tried wynaut? I have been using a dragon dance haxorus + wynaut core and its actually doing surprisingly well. Wynaut can get rid of annoying choice scarfers that haxorus hates and can also beat common priority users like choice band entei 1vs1. However the best thing about it is encore. Wynaut can easily switch on many defensive pokemon, encore them on a move and then act accordingly. If they decide to attack wynaut then you can use counter/mirror coat to kill them, if they decide to use a status move then they become setup fodder for haxorus and risk getting swept or at least losing some mons. Its definitely never going to be as effective as wobbufet obviously, but it can still do its job of trapping and eliminating things or turning them in setup fodder.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I cannot tell if you're trolling me Chesnaught or not but even if you are I will humor you just because some people might actually be convinced by your calcs.


First of all I might as well answer your question again. I did list in my post some special attackers that beat Chansey but let me be slightly more thorough since you are not apparently capable of looking this up yourself or reading my posts fully or you choose not to for some reason.

Special attackers that can beat Chansey if she tries to switch in with SR up and a bit of prior damage include but are not limited to

• Basically Nasty Plot anything including yes NP Houndoom. Chansey gets in as Houndoom uses NP. Houndoom will survive two Seismic Tosses and as Chansey uses this move Houndoom can use Dark Pulse twice. Statistically Chansey will get flinched or critted once almost half the time. If she does she will have to heal if she does not wish to die from Fire Blast. Even if she doesn't Houndoom will Dark Pulse a third time and statistically CHansey will have been flinched or critted by then. EVEN IF CHANSEY gets lucky and survives she will have to heal or be on extremely low death fodder health. If she heals in either case she will have to face two more Dark Pulses at least to be on decent health in which case Houndoom will almost certainly have gotten a flinch or critical hit by then. At best Chansey is usually on very low health and the fact she "wins" is pointless. She no longer can fulfill her role and the Houndoom user has eliminated what is certainly a key defensive Pokemon in their opponent's team.
• Shell Smashers who can Baton Pass away like Gorebyss. They may not kill Chansey themselves but you might as well consider the matchup lost for Chansey who will most certainly have to run away.
• Hydregion because LO Draco Meteor and Superpower will do on average about 73 or 74%. If Chansey is not yet damage enough just U-turn as she comes in and the next time she certainly will be.
• Tornadus can use Knock Off to cripple Chansey and then run away with U-Turn. He might run Superpower if he wants to try and kill Chansey himself.
• Life Orb Latias can use Psyshock which 2hkos Chansey after a boost.

Special attackers that can beat Chansey if they are in one on one include but are not limited to

• Most things with Substitute. For the most part they can actually counter Chansey if they avoid status actually. This means Kyurem can easily pressure stall Chansey and get a free sub. This means that Chandelure can use Chansey as set up fodder. Subseeders who tend to be specially based can just sit in and wait for Chansey to die or switch out and get a free sub.
• Keldeo will just pound Chansey of course and possibly set up on her.

Special attackers that could counter Chansey if they wanted to include but are not limited to

• Crocune and similar Pokemon that fear nothing from Chansey. Mega Ampharos can run Rest Talk sets which beat Chansey as well.
• Sigilyph because the ability. Also Renuiclus for the same reason. Both get access to Psyshock if they don't want to wait around boosting.

I am absolutely certain there are more Pokemon that can beat Chansey like I don't know Vivillon with Substitue and Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance.

It is also incredibly easy to play around Chansey because she has no Leftovers recover and her switches are so obvious. If your opponent has no response to Mega Manetric except Chansey then what do you do? Volt Switch will nab free damage and inch Chansey closer to death as she is forced to switch out when you send in your Heracross or sub cm Jirachi or something.

Nobody said Florges outclassed Chansey. You will never hear me say it in this generation because its not true. I said Chansey is no longer certainly the best wall anymore because Florges. I never said AV users had more special bulk than Chansey. I said they had enough special bulk to carry the team. By this I mean you have an AV Tornadus now that can survive a hit from Latias and then threaten to bash her with some move like U-Turn or Knock Off.

I really do not like your Fighting type calcs. All they say to me is that if you are competent you can easily OHKO Chansey with those moves. Realistically your Chansey is rarely going to be at full or even 90% plus health because lack of Leftovers and the constant amount of U-turns and Volt Switches in UU which really hamper Chansey again.

tldr Chansey cannot wall all special attackers like some of you clearly think she can and the ones she can wall often can use Volt Switch or just plain common sense to combat her (double switching is allowed guys)

 

[skies]

I cannot tell if you're trolling me Chesnaught or not but even if you are I will humor you just because some people might actually be convinced by your calcs.


First of all I might as well answer your question again. I did list in my post some special attackers that beat Chansey but let me be slightly more thorough since you are not apparently capable of looking this up yourself or reading my posts fully or you choose not to for some reason.

Special attackers that can beat Chansey if she tries to switch in with SR up and a bit of prior damage include but are not limited to

• Basically Nasty Plot anything including yes NP Houndoom. Chansey gets in as Houndoom uses NP. Houndoom will survive two Seismic Tosses and as Chansey uses this move Houndoom can use Dark Pulse twice. Statistically Chansey will get flinched or critted once almost half the time. If she does she will have to heal if she does not wish to die from Fire Blast. Even if she doesn't Houndoom will Dark Pulse a third time and statistically CHansey will have been flinched or critted by then. EVEN IF CHANSEY gets lucky and survives she will have to heal or be on extremely low death fodder health. If she heals in either case she will have to face two more Dark Pulses at least to be on decent health in which case Houndoom will almost certainly have gotten a flinch or critical hit by then. At best Chansey is usually on very low health and the fact she "wins" is pointless. She no longer can fulfill her role and the Houndoom user has eliminated what is certainly a key defensive Pokemon in their opponent's team.
• Shell Smashers who can Baton Pass away like Gorebyss. They may not kill Chansey themselves but you might as well consider the matchup lost for Chansey who will most certainly have to run away.
• Hydregion because LO Draco Meteor and Superpower will do on average about 73 or 74%. If Chansey is not yet damage enough just U-turn as she comes in and the next time she certainly will be.
• Tornadus can use Knock Off to cripple Chansey and then run away with U-Turn. He might run Superpower if he wants to try and kill Chansey himself.
• Life Orb Latias can use Psyshock which 2hkos Chansey after a boost.

Special attackers that can beat Chansey if they are in one on one include but are not limited to

• Most things with Substitute. For the most part they can actually counter Chansey if they avoid status actually. This means Kyurem can easily pressure stall Chansey and get a free sub. This means that Chandelure can use Chansey as set up fodder. Subseeders who tend to be specially based can just sit in and wait for Chansey to die or switch out and get a free sub.
• Keldeo will just pound Chansey of course and possibly set up on her.

Special attackers that could counter Chansey if they wanted to include but are not limited to

• Crocune and similar Pokemon that fear nothing from Chansey. Mega Ampharos can run Rest Talk sets which beat Chansey as well.
• Sigilyph because the ability. Also Renuiclus for the same reason. Both get access to Psyshock if they don't want to wait around boosting.

I am absolutely certain there are more Pokemon that can beat Chansey like I don't know Vivillon with Substitue and Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance.

It is also incredibly easy to play around Chansey because she has no Leftovers recover and her switches are so obvious. If your opponent has no response to Mega Manetric except Chansey then what do you do? Volt Switch will nab free damage and inch Chansey closer to death as she is forced to switch out when you send in your Heracross or sub cm Jirachi or something.

Nobody said Florges outclassed Chansey. You will never hear me say it in this generation because its not true. I said Chansey is no longer certainly the best wall anymore because Florges. I never said AV users had more special bulk than Chansey. I said they had enough special bulk to carry the team. By this I mean you have an AV Tornadus now that can survive a hit from Latias and then threaten to bash her with some move like U-Turn or Knock Off.

I really do not like your Fighting type calcs. All they say to me is that if you are competent you can easily OHKO Chansey with those moves. Realistically your Chansey is rarely going to be at full or even 90% plus health because lack of Leftovers and the constant amount of U-turns and Volt Switches in UU which really hamper Chansey again.

tldr Chansey cannot wall all special attackers like some of you clearly think she can and the ones she can wall often can use Volt Switch or just plain common sense to combat her (double switching is allowed guys)

I am not kidding, and what was I trying to fool anyone with those calcs? They're just numbers. They're demonstrating that Chansey is a great Special Wall, you can't neglect that. And realistically, you're going to face this situation:

1. Houndoom NP's
2. Chansey comes in on this
3. Chansey Toxics
4. Houndoom either attacks or NP's more
5. Chansey Wishes
6. Houndoom either attacks or NP's more
7. Chansey Protects
8. Repeat cycle

This eventually will end with Houndoom dying or Chansey leaving it with very small health. Except you said CM Latias, which does not run Life Orb, and which Tornadus are you talking about even, I assume -T, but I'm unsure honestly. Kyurem beats her, yes, but which Special Attackers 100% run Substitute, in all honesty. Certainly a lot due, but then Chansey breaks their Subs with Seismic Toss and keeps doing so until they cannot Sub anymore. Keldeo 2HKOes Chansey, yes, but no smart user will keep in Chansey versus Keldeo. Ok, something has always bothered me, people say she sucks because of no Leftovers recovery, yet that isn't the most important thing in the whole world, she can even run Soft-Boiled if not Wishpassing. And yes you did say it was outclassed, you said that it wasn't the best Special wall in the tier because of Florges, which certainly isn't true. And I just included those Fighting calcs because you said she can't counter Physical threats, yet she can take powerful SE hits if she needs to, but she shouldn't, she should just switch. This is seriously a pointless argument that will go on for a while, let's just stop? Chansey is a good Wall, a great wall even, but going far enough to say that it can't counter Special things is just absurd.

tl;dr: Chansey is good, it isn't great, you make valid points, Florges is cool too, Mega Houndoom does /okay/ against Chansey.

 

[Ununhexium]

This may sounds REEEEEAAAAALY hypocritical but you can weaken Chansey significantly with knock off. Without eviolite, it is significantly weakened and takes more damage from attacks.

 

[skies]

This may sounds REEEEEAAAAALY hypocritical but you can weaken Chansey significantly with knock off. Without eviolite, it is significantly weakened and takes more damage from attacks.

But who keeps in Chansey in on Knock Off anyways? People should know by now that it isn't the greatest idea.

Chansey + Cobalion lgi

 

[Ununhexium]

But who keeps in Chansey in on Knock Off anyways? People should know by now that it isn't the greatest idea.

Chansey + Cobalion lgi

I know but if you can catch it with knock off you can deal some good damage

 

[TM13IceBeam]

how is using dark pulse three times giving you a statistical chance of flinching? Even with 3 dark pulses, the chance of not flinching is 51.2%, so 51.2% of the time chansey is landing that last blow on houndoom. it's not exactly a "chansey is sure to fail" thing. if chansey goes down with houndoom, then chansey has achieved her job of removing a key threat from the game, which can be crucial if houndoom is the only special sweeper they have. you have limited the loss of your team to just chansey.

re: smashpass: chansey is barely 2hko'd by +2 pump from gorebyss, enough for you to abuse wishtect to pp stall pump while you fish for misses. i'm not sure what's the most common recipient for smashpassing (nidoking? idk) but you can still cheapen out with wishtect to pp stall focus blast.

re: hydreigon: chansey can wish-tect abuse again due to the stat drops from meteor or superpower. seriously, you're using hydreigon as an example, when hydreigon is probably one of the best things chansey can wall?

re: tornadus: superpower does like 40% with eviolite, protect can scout for knock off, and you can always rely on a physically defensive pokemon to scare out tornadus (i find zapdos to be perfect for this, as he resists air slash and superpower, doesn't really give a shit about knock off, and does other things too like beat lucha)

i dont really see the point of bringing up crocune when it IS specifically designed to shit all over chansey. scald is still a 3hko at +6 and at best you might as well be fishing for a burn. also yeah chansey shouldn't really be staying in on crocune at any rate (why the fuck would you let it boost to +6 anyway)

similarly, the same go for sigi and reun. both are designed to beat chansey (and that's something you know if you have played early gen 5: reuniclus was actually suspected because it just lulz all over chansey/blissey's face).

chansey is an excellent special wall, but similarly as to how you /use common sense/ to beat chansey, you can also /use common sense/ to play chansey. you may expect the opponent to switch in chansey, but what if his pokemon decides not to switch and instead does massive damage to manectric? it's all risk vs reward: chansey is the safe play, but it really depends on how the chansey user views it, whether it's the best choice to send in chansey or not. it's barely something where you "click volt switch and win": it's not.

Ununhexium: chansey is indeed crippled by knock off but chansey already loses to most knock off users outright so it has no business staying in on them anyway. tornadus-t is just about the only offensive user of knock off that chansey doesn't mind staying in (other users of knock off are limited to random stuff like empoleon and co.)

 

[Ununhexium]

Ununhexium: chansey is indeed crippled by knock off but chansey already loses to most knock off users outright so it has no business staying in on them anyway. tornadus-t is just about the only offensive user of knock off that chansey doesn't mind staying in (other users of knock off are limited to random stuff like empoleon and co.)

I know but I was just pointing out a little fact. Thank you for clarifying though.

 

[pokemonisfun]

You must not have read my post carefully which is my fault because I know it is long and unpleasant to read. Let me clarify for you TM13IceBeam.

I said crit or flinch. crit chance is 6.25% plus 20% to flinch yields 26.25%. So the chance of NOT getting critted or flinched is 73.75%. The chance of that 73.25% happening twice in a row is about 53.4%. I said after two turns Chansey will get critted or flinched about half the time. 53.4% was "close enough" for me but I did specify later in my post it was actually less than half the time so there was nothing at all inaccurate in my post if I understand the game mechanics correctly.

You are not honestly going to try and stall out smash pass when GOrebyss can just smash again are you? Also remember I said Chansey was at less than 87.5% health here in my post so the 2hko is more likely.

Again for Hydregion I made myself clear Chansey will have to be at 73 or 74% health on average to be 2hkod by Draco Meteor and Superpower assuming Hydregion has no attack evs. No amount of Protect will help Chansey in that case (well actually like 8 straight protects will to stall out PP but that is insignificant. I also made it clear Hydregion can use U turn to make sure Chansey is at that health range. Yes I am seriously using that example because that proves my point: you think Chansey can easily wall this guy but in reality you need to be at very high health like over 80% to do this 100% of the time.

I believe you are incorrect to say I should not have mentioned Crocune. Yes it is designed to crush Chansey. So what? Are we not allowed to mention Pokemon designed to crush Chansey when talking about Chansey's effectiveness in UU? Of course you wouldn't usually get to +6 unless your oppoennt had no response to you but Crocune is threatening enough at +1 and can easily be preserved in a game to serve as a win condition later.

i also believe you are incorrect when you say the Chansey user can make plays just as easily as the Manetric user. I seriously doubt this. To be clear I do not play any games at all outside top ladder games usually so many people say predictions are iffy their compared to "high leveled battles". But frankly I think that is just an attitude of elitism from a sheltered player base that composes of many UU players on Smogon. People of all ranks can make good plays in my opinion.

If you are using Chansey you are putting it on your team to counter special threats and possibly more utility, no questions asked. So when you see special threats it will always be a players instinct to send in Chansey because thats how you designed your team to be played. The Manetric player certainly knows this and can almost always safely volt switch. Often times there is little alternative. What do you plan to do, keep your Mega Blastoise in on Manetric? The only option you have in these scenarios is usually to go to a ground which you may or may not have and even that option is unavalible when you use U turn.

I hope I addressed your points fully.