Excadrill

The fact that scarf toed started to get popular is clearly show how dory affect the metagame. Also unlike rain and sun sandstorm doesnt particularly weaken any particular pokemon so your team choice is totaly wider than sun and rain. I always hestitating to use Kurimugan in Ran for example(kurimugan trolling FTW) thats why Sand has an edge in term of
weather advantage.
I'd say that Sand weakens anyone weak to Sand's main sweepers significantly - those vulnerable to Doryuuzu for example. The team choice is wider because mostly of the 3 types able to abuse Sand to some extent (excluding Cacturne), whereas the other weathers have one or two (Sun).

You must be ranked really low if you aren't facing teams with Mole because I just faced 10 Sandstorm teams in a row running Mole on the ladder. I have MP Roobu and other stuff to deal with it and it still gets me half the time. And that's without getting SD off, if it does get SD off then the game is over. Unless you want to make a team of 6 Pokemon that counter Mole (which would be a bad team) then it's going to wreck you from time to time.
I run a Sun team and the same applies - even with an opposing weather to counter it Doryuuzu manages to beat me occasionally, though not half the time. However I would say that the times it does is down not to Doryuuzu itself but my opponent's ability to keep their weather setter alive longer than Ninetales, as my entire team pretty much hard counters it out of Sand. Similarly, the Ground Genie can pose similar issues if their weather setter stays alive long enough. So to me, it doesn't seem too overpowering.

However, the fact that I don't have issues with it too often may be down to the fact that my team is a Sun one is reasonably concealed until I bring out Ninetales, and that Hippo in particular is commonly a lead. This enables me to pick it off (which my team is somewhat specialised to do due to its nature) then completely eliminate the threat of Doryuuzu by setting up Sun.
 
jezus hes hard to revenge.

ou viable revenge pogeys:
roopushin (needs iron fist for ohko)
breloom (needs life orb)
ditto (ohai balloon)
vaccuum wave infernape/lucario (needs life orb +modest)
iron fist infernape (needs life orb)
scarf TIMID shaymin-s
aqua jet azumarill

kabutops/daikenki/abugoora/kuredio/floatzel/empoleon/dragonite ALL FALL SHORT OF KO without max evs and choice band (life orb and +nature for some).

i always make sure all my pokemon on offensive teams have a way to ko the motherfucker and no choicers.
 

lmitchell0012

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jezus hes hard to revenge.

ou viable revenge pogeys:
roopushin (needs iron fist for ohko)
breloom (needs life orb)
ditto (ohai balloon)
vaccuum wave infernape/lucario (needs life orb +modest)
iron fist infernape (needs life orb)
scarf TIMID shaymin-s
aqua jet azumarill

kabutops/daikenki/abugoora/kuredio/floatzel/empoleon/dragonite ALL FALL SHORT OF KO without max evs and choice band (life orb and +nature for some).

i always make sure all my pokemon on offensive teams have a way to ko the motherfucker and no choicers.
This guy is just ridiculously overpowered. With sandstorm in effect, he's even deadlier than garchomp was during previous gens! This is just an assumption right now, but I'm thinking that he'll eventually end up in ubers, just like garchomp did. He doesn't really have any safe switch ins and like other ubers during previous generations it's easier to revenge kill him than try to switch something in.
 

jrrrrrrr

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He doesn't really have any safe switch ins and like other ubers during previous generations it's easier to revenge kill him than try to switch something in.
Dory might be a pain, but it is nowhere near as bad as DP Garchomp was. First of all, Dory NEEDS Sandstorm to be anywhere near as effective as people are saying. That means that off the bat, your entire team is predictable. This is a huge competitive disadvantage. Whenever I see a lead Hippo, or a Tyranitar anywhere, I can now automatically assume there is a Dory waiting in the wings and I can play accordingly. You'll whittle your team down to find the right spot to get Dory in, then surprise! I have a Ditto waiting to clear out your whole team. DPGarchomp on the other hand was broken with or without Sand.

Secondly, Dory has several hard counters (pokemon that can switch into any move and either KO or scare it away). Skarmory and Bronzong both destroy this thing straight up. Anything with a Balloon also wrecks it, most notably Heatran and Magnezone. Nattorei can take its attacks and 2hko with Gyro Ball, even though Dory resists it. Roobushin has great Defense and STAB Iron Fist Mach Punch to back it up. Breloom resists every move on the set and also has STAB Technician Mach Punch. Gliscor does a great job of dealing with it. Garchomp and Swampert also deal with it. Hippowdon too. Since it is so dependent on the weather, you will find that Politoed and Ninetales also make Dory sad. When not in the sand, you will see that 88 base Speed is not that great.

If it doesn't already have a Swords Dance, Dory really can't OHKO anything despite its good Speed. It really really wants Stone Edge :(. So much of its success depends on the Balloon that its 135 Attack isn't as scary as it sounds, especially considering that you have to run Jolly to cover other Doryuuzus.

Doryuuzu's biggest flaw is that it's Ditto bait. Big time. I can't even count how many matches I've won so far in BW by letting them set up and surprising them with a countersweep.

With all that said, Doryuuzu is a great OU pokemon and I don't see it going anywhere soon. If your team isn't ready for it, you will lose a lot of matches. Can we just stop using the "u" word in this topic please?
 
Hippo/Swampert/Garchomp can't even check balloon dory

Breloom dies to SD Life Orb X-scissor, Nattorei gets 2kod. rohpushin needs iron fist for the ko.

Really nice set that works vs other physical threats:

Erufuun @ leftovers, bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Cotton Guard (+3 Defence)
Stun Spore / Leach Seed
Giga Drain
Encore

Stops any physical sweeper

you heard it here first lol, this is going to be everywhere



edit some calcs (needs checking they are head calcs);

doryuuzu, assuming adamant with max evs, with a +2 X-scissor does 41-48% to +3 Erufuun. at +6 it does 25-30%

Cotton guard first and second turn, then stun spore followed with giga drains.
 
Adamant Max Attack Iron Fist Mach Punch from Rohpushin does not OHKO 0/0 Doryuuzu. Technician Breloom's Mach Punch, however, does.

Cotton Guard is lameish, and Sableye and Volbeat both do a better job at stopping setup sweepers than Erufuun. Volbeat can Encore SD, Tail Glow, and BP to a special Sweeper. Sableye can WOW, Taunt it, and Recover any damage.

Too bad Sableye didn't get Encore. Encored SD + Trickery = lol, not that the Encored Pokemon would stay in.
 
Erufuun has encore too. Mischeivous Heart cotton guard should have potential. Doryuuzu is an extreme example, but something like gyarados doesnt stand a chance

and they cant switch in and they cant revenge kill or counter

this erufuun can, and it can counter other stuff too.
 
^
If I'm going to run a Defense boosting move, it will be Reflect. Reduces less damage, yes, but supports the team more.

Giga Drain Eufuun counters and revenge kills Doryuzu? How so?

Sableye trolls every non MH Pokemon in the game. It has no fricking weaknesses. You can't even boost against it, and it has instant recovery. It is immune to half of the priority attacks in the game. Lacking Encore is the only thing stopping it from being the absolute best of support Pokemon.

Edit: Mischevious Heart Cotton Guard may have some use after all. Probably best with Sub Seed to avoid crits.
 

jrrrrrrr

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Hippo/Swampert/Garchomp can't even check balloon dory
Garchomp has Fire Fang and isn't OHKOd, Swampert has STAB Water moves and isn't OHKOd, Hippo roars. They can certainly check and/or counter Dory.
Breloom dies to SD Life Orb X-scissor
Dory is OHKOd by Technician Mach Punch.
Nattorei gets 2kod.
Only after an SD, and Nattorei 2hkos the mole with Gyro Ball or Power Whip.
rohpushin needs iron fist for the ko.
That doesn't sound unreasonable.
Erufuun @ leftovers, impish 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Cotton Guard (+3 Defence)
Stun Spore / Leach Seed
Giga Drain
Encore

Stops any physical sweeper
...Cotton guard first and second turn, then stun spore followed with giga drains
Stops them from doing what, exactly? You don't have any healing. Giga Drain will be doing nothing. Erufunn has a SpAtk stat of 159 with your EV spread. That is not a base stat, even things that are weak to Grass will laugh that off.
 
^lol I didn't notice the nature.

Priority users and gimmicks aside, Modest 252HP/252SpAtk Balloon-Zone is easily the best check to Doryuuzu. It's an awesome Pokemon in general.
 
But Breloom in all probability will be running Poison Heal, not Technician... not to mention, is Swampert 2HKOd?
 

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Balloon Ninetales switches in on the Earthquake and ends the sandstorm, outrunning it with flamethrower and potentially scaring it into switching out.

Sure, it loses to Rock Slide on the switch if predicted, but so does magnezone. Because then Zone's balloon will pop and the EQ will hit him next turn.
 
^Good point. If only Magnet Rise was priority...

I still think Magnezone is better, however, because if it gets in unscathed, Doryuzu is doomed. It's also a lot easier to just slap a Magnezone on your team, due to it's overall awesomeness.

Might give Doryuzu a reason to run Brick Break, though I'm not sure if +2 Brick Break OHKO's Max HP Zone tbh.
 
I like the fact you mention Fire Fang Garchomp as a counter to Doryuuzu. Just...no.

Also, Breloom and Infernape aren't particularly reliable counters to Dory (Breloom can't OHKO without a boosting item, which means no Lefties or Toxic Orb recovery, and Infernape can't take it out with Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch). I use CroCune with Boiling Water - while it can't OHKO, it can burn it, can heal off damage taken, and even set up given appropriate circumstances.
 
Garchomp has Fire Fang and isn't OHKOd, Swampert has STAB Water moves and isn't OHKOd, Hippo roars. They can certainly check and/or counter Dory.
Garchomp does horrible damage with fire fang and needs a very defensive spread not to be ohko'd. most hippos can even touch dory and roaring is hardly a good option, hippo will be finished off by something else and dory is still at 100%, great! Swampert can't ohko.
Only after an SD, and Nattorei 2hkos the mole with Gyro Ball or Power Whip.
whats your point exactly? nattorei almost checks doryuuzu?

Stops them from doing what, exactly? You don't have any healing. Giga Drain will be doing nothing. Erufunn has a SpAtk stat of 159 with your EV spread. That is not a base stat, even things that are weak to Grass will laugh that off.
Bold instead of impish. It beats dory. if your switching in on sd just encore. if not your up against a +2 doryuuzu. Cotton Spore first turn, cotton spore second, stun spore third turn, then giga drain again and again. encore if he trys to sd. he'll be stuck doing crap damage with x-scissor.

Doryuuzu without x-scissor is lol
 
Return Doryuuzu can't do shit to cotton guard erufuun. I dont think we'll be seeing many of them though as x-scissor is pretty good coverage move for him.
 
So wait, X-Scissor has 160 BP against Cotton Guard Erefuun. Return has 102 BP. Rock Slide and EQ both have 75. Plus Cotton Guard means you have major 4MSS on your fuun. (Taunt/Encore/Cotton Guard/Leech Seed? No attacking moves or a sub?)

X-Scissor does less to Breloom and Balloon Heatran (although Rock Slide does more there too.) It's not like Erefuun can kill Doryuzu back, anyway.
 
Balloon Ninetales switches in on the Earthquake and ends the sandstorm, outrunning it with flamethrower and potentially scaring it into switching out.

Sure, it loses to Rock Slide on the switch if predicted, but so does magnezone. Because then Zone's balloon will pop and the EQ will hit him next turn.
If you're running Ninetales, then the likelihood is that the opponent will not send Doryuuzu out until they have killed your Ninetales and reset sand with TTar or Hippo - why would they risk the sweep being revenged so easily?

Balloon is somewhat a waste of an item seeing as Tales can just come in for free after Doryuuzu KOs something and revenge it, rather than risking switching in (especially given that Grass types likely to be on Sun teams resist EQ). To me it seems Tales is better off checking Doryuuzu not trying to counter it.
 

SJCrew

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Return Doryuuzu can't do shit to cotton guard erufuun. I dont think we'll be seeing many of them though as x-scissor is pretty good coverage move for him.
Rock Slide, however, is not. You can safely run Return over it and still hit winged foes. I don't think any good Doryuuzu player would want to give X-Scissor up. You do suffer from some massive Skarmory blockage though, but nothing a little Shandera support or good strategy can't overcome.

Also, you guys are being way too proactive with your Erufuun scenarios. If the best Erufuun can do against Dory is Stun Spore, it's already done its job and can switch out to something else to deal with it. Spamming Cotton Guard is a waste of his capabilities when you could be SubSeeding or setting up on him with something more dangerous instead.
 
Rock Slide, however, is not. You can safely run Return over it and still hit winged foes. I don't think any good Doryuuzu player would want to give X-Scissor up. You do suffer from some massive Skarmory blockage though, but nothing a little Shandera support or good strategy can't overcome.
personally don't think thats a very good idea he needs rock slide for more things than he needs return.

Also, you guys are being way too proactive with your Erufuun scenarios. If the best Erufuun can do against Dory is Stun Spore, it's already done its job and can switch out to something else to deal with it. Spamming Cotton Guard is a waste of his capabilities when you could be SubSeeding or setting up on him with something more dangerous instead.
erufuun is ohko'd without cotton guard. he cant set up on him and cant directly beat him. with cotton guard however he can beat him, along with many other physical threats.
 
What about Aakens evolution?
Flying grants immunity to EQ.
Rock type makes rock slide not as hard hitting that it could´ve been(though it´s listed as *2.0 at serebii).
It also helps resisting x-scissor.

A base 140 EQ with 110 speed could help getting that KO.

Jolly could make 379 atk 525 speed with a choice scarf.
 
What about Aakens evolution?
Flying grants immunity to EQ.
Rock type makes rock slide not as hard hitting that it could´ve been(though it´s listed as *2.0 at serebii).
It also helps resisting x-scissor.

A base 140 EQ with 110 speed could help getting that KO.

Jolly could make 379 atk 525 speed with a choice scarf.
Rock doesn't resist rock. And even if it's NVE, it would still most likely take it down to below 50% anyways, which it becomes useless.
 
Theorymon here, but it seems Max/Max Bold Stone Dusclops does decently against it, capable of taking a +2 Jolly LO Earthquake and surviving with a good bit of its health left. Dusclops can then burn Dory and make it significantly easier to deal with, given the recoil damage and reduced output.

Marvel Scale Milotic also does a good job, and can hit it supereffectively with STAB Boiling Water or Surf.
 

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