Pokémon Lucario

[Mattman324]

How would I get both bullet punch and crunch in Gen 6? Sorry if asked in wrong thread.

Crunch is easy, a lot of random stuff gets it. Bullet Punch is a bit harder, unless Tyrouge is in the only way is a chain... alternatively, USE SMEARGLE.

EDIT: Double greninjad all the way across the SKY!

 

[Jimmyftw]

I was playing gen 6 Uber and was up against a Mega-Lucario so I sent in the best Physical wall:
Calcs for Mega Lucario.

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability (custom) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 352-416 (87.12 - 102.97%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Adamant
4HP/252Atk/252Spd
Sword Dance
Close Combat
Bullet Punch
Extreme Speed

+2 CC kills everything it out speeds which is a lot of stuff. For those that outrun Lucario, use the appropriate priority move at +2 to rip them apart.

 

[Ballofire]

This is how I did it.

I myself bred a lot of Riolus with Crunch and Bullet Punch, so if you are looking for slightly easier access to one, send me a PM with your FC.

Mine is: 1977-0116-7656

I PMd you.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Are there any specific KOs that Lucario can only net with HJK and not CC?

 

[MrEon]

Are there any specific KOs that Lucario can only net with HJK and not CC?

With normal Lucario, you always OHKO Hippo, Donphan and Skarmory at +2 with HJK. Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

With M-Lucario, the difference is negligible I believe, as Adaptability CC off 145 Atk, especially at +2 outright destroys everything not resistant/immune to it.

EDIT: Did some calcs. HJK really doesnt do much apart from what I mentioned above (and those KOs can be achieved with minor prior damage/hazards anyway).

 

[Ballofire]

Jolly or Addy? Can't decide. If you run two priority addy would probably be better right? But now lucario has that amazing 112 speed tier I am stumped

 

[Kazu Matsumoto]

Jolly or Addy? Can't decide. If you run two priority addy would probably be better right? But now lucario has that amazing 112 speed tier I am stumped

It'll probably come down to preference in the end. Do you want the extra power or the ability to hit first? I'll probably test out both styles (And maybe a special variant to mix it up a bit!) but until we get further into the competitive field there's no solid answer :3

 

[Ballofire]

Aye, that's what I'm thinking too. Everything Lucario needs to outspeed and KO with CC I feel he can probably do with just an adamant nature. (Anything base 100 or below iirc) This also gives more damage on your priority attacks which of course do not require speed.

But Jolly 112 speed mmmm.

 

[Moose V]

I just realized Lucario now has the strongest Close Combat in the entire game (before an item boost at least) assuming Medicham doesn't get it this gen.

I don't see NP Mega-Lucario being much of a thing considering NP LO regular Lucario hits a bit harder and it wasn't particularly popular in the first place.

 

[Ballofire]

NP do you mean BP? I used BP all the time for terrakion and I'm sure adaptability boosts BP power higher than LO

 

[AccidentalGreed]

NP do you mean BP? I used BP all the time for terrakion and I'm sure adaptability boosts BP power higher than LO

He means Nasty Plot, and yeah, I'll agree that Nasty Plot Lucario, while it looked good on paper, didn't exactly do a greater job than Swords Dance last generation. I don't expect this generation to be any different.

 

[Soul Fly]

^ The Speed buff and the Adaptability Vaccuum wave buff honestly sounds better than LO NP, but in the end that crazzy Close Combat does more damage anyways.

 

[Ballofire]

Ah yeah of course. Never really ran into a NP lucario outside of gimmick teams

Edit - a +2 cc is too strong, resistances? What's that.

Really am stumped on which lucario to train. Rei sent me one and I've managed to bred a 4/5 IV adamant and jolly one. Both are in my team waiting to be trained lol. Ugh. The only reason I'm debating jolly is for Garchomp and Keldeo.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Jolly or Addy? Can't decide. If you run two priority addy would probably be better right? But now lucario has that amazing 112 speed tier I am stumped

Taking into account that the most viable moveset for Adaptability Lucario will probably be Swords Dance, Close Combat, Crunch, and Bullet Punch, let's take a look at a few things that Adamant loses to and Jolly beats:

• Jolly Garchomp -- This is one of the most significant things you will outslow with an Adamant nature. +2 Adamant Adaptability Bullet Punch only does 62.7% - 73.9% to the frailest variant.
  
• Timid Thundurus-I / Thundurus-T / Zapdos -- Yeah, +2 Bullet Punch doesn't come close to killing any of these guys, even after Stealth Rock.
• Naive/Timid Infernape - meh, probably won't be too common
• Other things in the +speed 100 range (Delphox, maybe?)

So yeah, that's basically the gist of it. It should mainly on whether the user of Mega Luke will benefit from revenging faster sweepers with a more powerful Bullet Punch as well as being able to break walls more easily (i.e. Aegislash with Crunch), or whether he/she wouldn't want things like Garchomp to ruin Luke's sweep.

 

[PK Gaming]

Jolly or Addy? Can't decide. If you run two priority addy would probably be better right? But now lucario has that amazing 112 speed tier I am stumped

Jolly. There are too many Pokemon in the base 100-110 Speed tier that need trashing, and priority won't cut it for some of them. (It's not like you're always going to have Swords Dance set up either)

 

[AccidentalGreed]

The future prospect of outrunning Terrakion, Latios, Latias, and Gengar before it Mega Evolves makes Jolly a preferred option, even if it might cut down on some power. I mean, it get Adaptability for chrissake, and with additional coverage options and a higher base Attack, it's basically a better Terrakion (disclaimer: it can't wear scarf or get setup opportunities or have Rock-typing, shut up guys.).

 

[Shiruba]

Ah yeah of course. Never really ran into a NP lucario outside of gimmick teams

Edit - a +2 cc is too strong, resistances? What's that.

Really am stumped on which lucario to train. Rei sent me one and I've managed to bred a 4/5 IV adamant and jolly one. Both are in my team waiting to be trained lol. Ugh. The only reason I'm debating jolly is for Garchomp and Keldeo.

Why not train both? Could be useful depending on the team it's on.
I personally wouldn't worry as much about seeing Keldeo all the time - not like now, anyway. It's been nerfed quite a bit this gen, what with the rain only lasting two FIVE TO EIGHT [why the fuck did i say two] turns, the Hydro Pump and Hidden Power power reductions, and Faerie resisting fighting. As for Gaygar and Terrakion, Adaptability Bullet Punch from this is gonna do a shitton, if not outright KO.

PK, which Pokes're you talking about in particular?

 

[Ballofire]

Does anyone know if +2 Addy BP OHKOs gengar? Or if +2 Jolly can OHKO. I'm guessing both can. But does anyone know If +0 can do it as well? I remember a normal LO lucario would always fall short of the KO on regular gengar without any boosts.

 

[Lilligant562]

*PLEASE SMOGON DO NOT BANISH KING-MEGA-LUCCY TO THE UBER-BIN TIER EVER PLZ DONT DO IT - WE JUST WANT SOME GOOD OL FUN WITH AN EXCELLENT POKEMON*

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Does anyone know if +2 Addy BP OHKOs gengar? Or if +2 Jolly can OHKO. I'm guessing both can. But does anyone know If +0 can do it as well? I remember a normal LO lucario would always fall short of the KO on regular gengar without any boosts.

The following calculations should answer your questions. The calculations are, of course, tailored around Mega Gengar (using it in calcs since I predict Mega Gengar will become popular) having 80 Defense, and Lucario's other properties.

• +2 252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 250-296 (95.41 - 112.97%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
• +2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 228-270 (87.02 - 103.05%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

So with Stealth Rock damage, you're all set. You also gain guaranteed OHKO's on normal Gengar, which should answer part of your question. Obviously, you can't really say the same for +0.

• +0 252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 126-150 (48.09 - 57.25%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO
• +0 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 114-136 (43.51 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And for normal Gengar:

• 252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 158-186 (60.3 - 70.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 144-170 (54.96 - 64.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Somewhat unsettling considering Mega Gengar can't hurt itself with Life Orb recoil. Mega Lucario can also beat Gengar regardless because it naturally has more Speed than it, and uses Crunch.

Why not train both? Could be useful depending on the team it's on.
I personally wouldn't worry as much about seeing Keldeo all the time - not like now, anyway. It's been nerfed quite a bit this gen, what with the rain only lasting two FIVE TO EIGHT [why the fuck did i say two] turns, the Hydro Pump and Hidden Power power reductions, and Faerie resisting fighting. As for Gaygar and Terrakion, Adaptability Bullet Punch from this is gonna do a shitton, if not outright KO.

PK, which Pokes're you talking about in particular?

Targets should be highlighted in my previous post. Other targets include Garchomp, Salamence, Mienshao, and Charizard.

 

[Kazu Matsumoto]

Have we already covered Bullet Punch being used over Extremespeed? I can see the benefits of type coverage but surely having a +2 priority is a point of merit. Of course, since everything is still just speculation at this stage how about this:
Adamant
Lucarioite
EVs
- 252 Attack
- 252 Speed
- 4 HP
Moves:
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Crunch
- Swords Dance / Bullet Punch

Running the standard set but without boosting using SD might seem a little crazy but with two priority moves we cover ourselves with both ghosts and anything else with priority that may outspeed us. I get that losing +2 attack can hurt and not give us the crazy high damage output that we want, but I don't think it needs to be an essential part of Lucario's moveset if he's able to hit hard (off of 145 atk is still frightening especially with Adaptability) and fast (+1 priority on BP deals with our pesky ghost friends and +2 can handle any cheeky Mach Punchers)

Thoughts?

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Have we already covered Bullet Punch being used over Extremespeed? I can see the benefits of type coverage but surely having a +2 priority is a point of merit. Of course, since everything is still just speculation at this stage how about this:
Adamant
Lucarioite
EVs
- 252 Attack
- 252 Speed
- 4 HP
Moves:
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Crunch
- Swords Dance / Bullet Punch

Running the standard set but without boosting using SD might seem a little crazy but with two priority moves we cover ourselves with both ghosts and anything else with priority that may outspeed us. I get that losing +2 attack can hurt and not give us the crazy high damage output that we want, but I don't think it needs to be an essential part of Lucario's moveset if he's able to hit hard (off of 145 atk is still frightening especially with Adaptability) and fast (+1 priority on BP deals with our pesky ghost friends and +2 can handle any cheeky Mach Punchers)

Thoughts?

You fail to address one thing: What's the point of using Extremespeed? What threats does it hit that the standard doesn't already?

 

[Kazu Matsumoto]

You fail to address one thing: What's the point of using Extremespeed? What threats does it hit that the standard doesn't already?

Good point... More then anything I was considering it hitting stuff that resists Bullet punch since they'll both have the same base power. Zapdos and Thunderus as a prime example. Though I can see why running it for the sake of only 2 threats is a bit silly xD

 

[Ballofire]

Well going to try out Jolly for a while. Feel a little bit uneasy about it will post some results / battle vids later onon

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Good point... More then anything I was considering it hitting stuff that resists Bullet punch since they'll both have the same base power. Zapdos and Thunderus as a prime example. Though I can see why running it for the sake of only 2 threats is a bit silly xD

Swords Dance Mega Lucario already takes care of those two threats simply by outrunning them naturally and using Close Combat (which is more powerful than ExtremeSpeed even without Adaptability) or Ice Punch. I can only assume Extremespeed will be used for Choice Scarf users that resist Bullet Punch, but that is similar to cases with other Mega Evolutions without Speed boosting moves.