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Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Ashfield
- Start date
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Clefable seems like a decent candidate to UU. Reborn with a newfound typing in Fairy and a +10 boost to her base Special Attack (although I think it would've been better if it had been added to either Defense, Special Defense or HP), I think this is a crucial step for her to bolster her rankings up to UU. Now these changes coupled with decent bulk, offenses, two useful Abilities, and a diverse movepool, she can perform a variety of roles and strategies and more effectively at that; Cleric, Cosmic Power Sets, CM sets, Bulky LO Attacker and more.
Some Defensive Calculations:
With Physically Defensive EV's:
252 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 120-142 (30.45 - 36.04%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 178-211 (45.17 - 53.55%) -- 1.95% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 117-139 (29.69 - 35.27%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 153-181 (38.83 - 45.93%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 308-363 (78.17 - 92.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Lawd, have mercy)
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 322-379 (81.72 - 96.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Lawd, have mercy)
With Specially Defensive EV's:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 146-173 (37.05 - 43.9%) -- 99.93% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 144-172 (36.54 - 43.65%) -- 99.27% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 151-178 (38.32 - 45.17%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (2HKO'd by LO and Choice Specs Variants)
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.87 - 49.49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (iffy because of possible SpDef drops)
Not too shabby at all. Although Clefable isn't Gligar-high bulky in the physical side nor Snorlax high-bulky in the special side, she still has the capabilities to counter some of UU's offensive threats although not as effectively. However, a problem that would arise is that Clefable almost always needs to fully invest in either Def or SpDef to reliably counter these threats. And so, going for Defense would lead you susceptible to Special attackers that you should've taken well if you invested in Special Defense or vice versa. With that, you would need to choose what spread will cater to the needs of your team best in covering specific threats.
Some Offensive Calculations:
Bulky LO Attacker / Wallbreaker
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 208-247 (52.92 - 62.84%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 242-286 (71.59 - 84.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 114-136 (30.48 - 36.36%) -- 57.96% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 129-152 (25.95 - 30.58%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 172-203 (53.91 - 63.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 218-257 (55.32 - 65.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 140-165 (36.55 - 43.08%) -- 98.93% chance to 3HKO
It isn't particularly outstanding but fair enough. If Clefable had Play Rough with +252 Atk, then things might have been a bit different. :c
However yes, it does leave a dent against more Offensive Pokemon but then in turn, she wouldn't appreciate their onslaughts due to lack of defensive investments. I guess the best way to go if you want an Offensive Clefable is with the Calm Mind set.
Some Defensive Calculations:
With Physically Defensive EV's:
252 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 120-142 (30.45 - 36.04%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 178-211 (45.17 - 53.55%) -- 1.95% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 117-139 (29.69 - 35.27%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 153-181 (38.83 - 45.93%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 308-363 (78.17 - 92.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Lawd, have mercy)
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 322-379 (81.72 - 96.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Lawd, have mercy)
With Specially Defensive EV's:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 146-173 (37.05 - 43.9%) -- 99.93% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 144-172 (36.54 - 43.65%) -- 99.27% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 151-178 (38.32 - 45.17%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (2HKO'd by LO and Choice Specs Variants)
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.87 - 49.49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (iffy because of possible SpDef drops)
Not too shabby at all. Although Clefable isn't Gligar-high bulky in the physical side nor Snorlax high-bulky in the special side, she still has the capabilities to counter some of UU's offensive threats although not as effectively. However, a problem that would arise is that Clefable almost always needs to fully invest in either Def or SpDef to reliably counter these threats. And so, going for Defense would lead you susceptible to Special attackers that you should've taken well if you invested in Special Defense or vice versa. With that, you would need to choose what spread will cater to the needs of your team best in covering specific threats.
Some Offensive Calculations:
Bulky LO Attacker / Wallbreaker
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 208-247 (52.92 - 62.84%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 242-286 (71.59 - 84.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 114-136 (30.48 - 36.36%) -- 57.96% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 129-152 (25.95 - 30.58%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 172-203 (53.91 - 63.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 218-257 (55.32 - 65.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 140-165 (36.55 - 43.08%) -- 98.93% chance to 3HKO
It isn't particularly outstanding but fair enough. If Clefable had Play Rough with +252 Atk, then things might have been a bit different. :c
However yes, it does leave a dent against more Offensive Pokemon but then in turn, she wouldn't appreciate their onslaughts due to lack of defensive investments. I guess the best way to go if you want an Offensive Clefable is with the Calm Mind set.
If this bulky offense trend continues Suicune will be OU in a heartbeat. He counters so many offensive threats like Talonflame, Blaziken (both mega and LO variants), any Genesect that's not using Thunderbolt (and even then it needs a +SpA download boost to do any real damage, which Gene doesn't get if you have at least 1 CM), Excadrill, Lando-T, and of course can set up on plenty of stall mons as well.
Last gen, Keldeo and Politoed were better choices for waters. Politoed gave you rain, while Keldeo could abuse that rain or just abuse his scarf set which was basically unstoppable by HO teams. This gen, there's no perma rain so defensive Politoed loses most of his utility, and if you want a bulky water you don't really have a lot of other choices. Keldeo is still decent, but new offensive threats like Talonflame and mega Pinsir hard counter him, while defensive teams have fairies, who resist secret sword, generally have high SpD for surf, and can hit back with super effective moves like air slash or moonblast. Vaporeon and Tentacruel are still okay options, but without the permanent rain that they benefitted from so heavily last gen they are both inferior to Suicune when it comes to taking hits and dishing them out.
I've made like 4 posts so far on Suicune. He's really, really, really good. Especially right now since no one is using any electrics other than the Rotoms (who generally only have volt switch, which means if you need to you can just take the hit and start boosting, then be +2 by they time they come back in to hit you again).
As far as which pokes will fall? I believe the aforementioned Vaporeon will for sure. Tentacruel still has good typing and knock off so he can be a useful pivot in OU, but his usage is going to drop.
Heliolisk is a straight shot for UU with a little bit of OU viability. The Rotoms and Thundurus are better as general electrics, and plenty of other pokes do the glass cannon thing better with higher special attack and speed (sup Gengar), but his unique speed and ability make him far from useless.
Last gen, Keldeo and Politoed were better choices for waters. Politoed gave you rain, while Keldeo could abuse that rain or just abuse his scarf set which was basically unstoppable by HO teams. This gen, there's no perma rain so defensive Politoed loses most of his utility, and if you want a bulky water you don't really have a lot of other choices. Keldeo is still decent, but new offensive threats like Talonflame and mega Pinsir hard counter him, while defensive teams have fairies, who resist secret sword, generally have high SpD for surf, and can hit back with super effective moves like air slash or moonblast. Vaporeon and Tentacruel are still okay options, but without the permanent rain that they benefitted from so heavily last gen they are both inferior to Suicune when it comes to taking hits and dishing them out.
I've made like 4 posts so far on Suicune. He's really, really, really good. Especially right now since no one is using any electrics other than the Rotoms (who generally only have volt switch, which means if you need to you can just take the hit and start boosting, then be +2 by they time they come back in to hit you again).
As far as which pokes will fall? I believe the aforementioned Vaporeon will for sure. Tentacruel still has good typing and knock off so he can be a useful pivot in OU, but his usage is going to drop.
Heliolisk is a straight shot for UU with a little bit of OU viability. The Rotoms and Thundurus are better as general electrics, and plenty of other pokes do the glass cannon thing better with higher special attack and speed (sup Gengar), but his unique speed and ability make him far from useless.
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Oh. Damn.
Now to find something neutral to those that can take a hit in SUN. Let's see...
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra in sun: 143-169 (49.14 - 58.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I have officially lost hope....wait...
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lickilicky: 292-345 (68.86 - 81.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah! Except it doesn't really count.
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar in sun: 256-303 (76.64 - 90.71%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
...damn I'm scared. >.< And CLEFABLE has like 70% of this kind of bulk...wow.
The sky's the limit really, I don't think it's going to look remotely similar to Gen V UU.
We had the likes of Mew in BW UU, so it's not really bound by quality. I imagine a lot of "good" OU worthy Pokemon will wind up in OU, simply due to lack of space. (And I'm also willing to bet that "bad" Pokemon will wind up in OU too...)
EDIT: Lots of Dragon-types are going to end up in this tier. UU Salamence, lol!
We had the likes of Mew in BW UU, so it's not really bound by quality. I imagine a lot of "good" OU worthy Pokemon will wind up in OU, simply due to lack of space. (And I'm also willing to bet that "bad" Pokemon will wind up in OU too...)
EDIT: Lots of Dragon-types are going to end up in this tier. UU Salamence, lol!
I think Metagross is pretty much a given, it got absolutely shat on this gen, what with the Steel nerf and Meteor Mash nerf (seriously, MM is like my favourite move, mega pissed off about this) and it wasn't exactly safely OU in 5th gen.
I reckon Amph should end up in UU, its only of those "nearly-awesome-but-flawed-in-significant-ways" pokemon- Awesome bulk, awesome (and unique) typing both offensively and defensively, brilliant power, but then sullied by lack of item and turd Speed. Even bulky mons should be able to outspeed a few things.
Tangrowth is pretty interesting now that Assault Vest is a thing. Also buffed Knock Off, which now actually gives him decent coverage.
Florges/Sylveon also seem to me to be good fits in the "good but flawed category", their movesets don't seem all that versatile enough to adapt to OU, despite being otherwise pretty solid at what they do.
Medicham is probably gonna beast it up down there. Not sure what would be really dealing with it down there. And if by some means it got hold of Mach Punch later on in the gen...oh lordy lou
Hawlucha is probably gonna be pretty solid down there once Pokebank comes out. SD with Unburden and Flying/Fighting STAB coverage is kinda disgusting, especially when said STAB options have 110/130 base power respectively.
Eh, that'll do for now.
I reckon Amph should end up in UU, its only of those "nearly-awesome-but-flawed-in-significant-ways" pokemon- Awesome bulk, awesome (and unique) typing both offensively and defensively, brilliant power, but then sullied by lack of item and turd Speed. Even bulky mons should be able to outspeed a few things.
Tangrowth is pretty interesting now that Assault Vest is a thing. Also buffed Knock Off, which now actually gives him decent coverage.
Florges/Sylveon also seem to me to be good fits in the "good but flawed category", their movesets don't seem all that versatile enough to adapt to OU, despite being otherwise pretty solid at what they do.
Medicham is probably gonna beast it up down there. Not sure what would be really dealing with it down there. And if by some means it got hold of Mach Punch later on in the gen...oh lordy lou
Hawlucha is probably gonna be pretty solid down there once Pokebank comes out. SD with Unburden and Flying/Fighting STAB coverage is kinda disgusting, especially when said STAB options have 110/130 base power respectively.
Eh, that'll do for now.
I never thought, a 600 BST Dragon that was considered one of the hardest things to control last gen could possibly fall to UU. We live in interesting times.
I also think UU will see a big inflow of dragon-types. As said before, Hydreigon, Haxorus, and Kyurem-B (what?!) almost fell off OU in Generation 5, and now because of fairies, priority, and the shift away from hyperoffence, they (and also Salamence) are already starting to go by the wayside in favour of bulky dragons like Dragonite. Even if the 600 BSTs become BL (and Kyurem-B absolutely has to), new dragons like Tyrantrum, Dragalge, and M-Ampharos will likely be threatening forces in UU.
On the other hand, UU is likely where a lot of fairy-types would end up, which would go some way to balance the dragons' power. Things like Florges, Sylveon, and Clefable, who are fairly limited in what they can do in OU, but in UU can be valuable checks to Hydreigon and Ampharos (and possibly Salamence if it's really unpopular in OU) in particular.
A lot of Megas might not make OU even though they're solid in that tier, just because you can only use one Mega and everyone's daft over godliness like M-Lucario and M-Gengar. I suspect a lot of them will be BL though.
And yeah, Metagross is pretty much obvious now. The poor thing's scared to death of ghosts and the dark now...
I also think UU will see a big inflow of dragon-types. As said before, Hydreigon, Haxorus, and Kyurem-B (what?!) almost fell off OU in Generation 5, and now because of fairies, priority, and the shift away from hyperoffence, they (and also Salamence) are already starting to go by the wayside in favour of bulky dragons like Dragonite. Even if the 600 BSTs become BL (and Kyurem-B absolutely has to), new dragons like Tyrantrum, Dragalge, and M-Ampharos will likely be threatening forces in UU.
On the other hand, UU is likely where a lot of fairy-types would end up, which would go some way to balance the dragons' power. Things like Florges, Sylveon, and Clefable, who are fairly limited in what they can do in OU, but in UU can be valuable checks to Hydreigon and Ampharos (and possibly Salamence if it's really unpopular in OU) in particular.
A lot of Megas might not make OU even though they're solid in that tier, just because you can only use one Mega and everyone's daft over godliness like M-Lucario and M-Gengar. I suspect a lot of them will be BL though.
And yeah, Metagross is pretty much obvious now. The poor thing's scared to death of ghosts and the dark now...
Funnily enough Talonflame might be more manageable in UU given Rhyperior, Rotom-H and bulky waters are commonly seen in UU teams.
Kyurem-B has no chance of going UU, its stats are too good so I don't see the point in discussing this. As for Hydreigon and Haxorus, they have a good chance of dropping from OU but I still think they're too much for UU even with Fairy types around.
As for the Fairies, I don't see them being too common, Azumarill and Togekiss are probably going up, I can see Clefable and Florges being good UU candidates, Sylveon in general is outclassed by Florges so it'll probably go to RU. UU is a tier dominated by Fire types, Poison types are also a common sight between the Nidos, Crobat, Roserade and even RU mons like Qwilfish and Venomoth. I didn't even bring up potential new pokemon like Metagross or Scolipede.
That said Fairies will have some sort of impact on UU, Umbreon will probably be eschewed in favour of Snorlax/Porygon2, Flygon will be less useful but its typing and ability still make it a great scout. Kingdra would use its physical sets more often now and has to find space to fit Iron Head/Flash Cannon. Dragalge would be interesting, its typing has a lot going for it and its going to hit hard with Adaptability, obviously Metagross would be a problem but it gets Shadow Ball/Scald which scare it off.
There are a lot of potential UUs from the new pokemon, Hawlucha is a nice alternative to Heracross/Mienshao, Barbaracle is a strong SS sweeper, Malamar can check a lot of setup pokemon like MoxieKrow, Curselax and Crocune, Diggersby seems like a solid wallbreaker and has priority STAB and U-Turn in its movepool and although this is unlikely Chesnaught's good physical defense, access to Spikes and typing that gives it favourable matchups against common threats like Rhyperior and Umbreon and UU spinners(Including potential candidate Donphan) means its at least viable.
Kyurem-B has no chance of going UU, its stats are too good so I don't see the point in discussing this. As for Hydreigon and Haxorus, they have a good chance of dropping from OU but I still think they're too much for UU even with Fairy types around.
As for the Fairies, I don't see them being too common, Azumarill and Togekiss are probably going up, I can see Clefable and Florges being good UU candidates, Sylveon in general is outclassed by Florges so it'll probably go to RU. UU is a tier dominated by Fire types, Poison types are also a common sight between the Nidos, Crobat, Roserade and even RU mons like Qwilfish and Venomoth. I didn't even bring up potential new pokemon like Metagross or Scolipede.
That said Fairies will have some sort of impact on UU, Umbreon will probably be eschewed in favour of Snorlax/Porygon2, Flygon will be less useful but its typing and ability still make it a great scout. Kingdra would use its physical sets more often now and has to find space to fit Iron Head/Flash Cannon. Dragalge would be interesting, its typing has a lot going for it and its going to hit hard with Adaptability, obviously Metagross would be a problem but it gets Shadow Ball/Scald which scare it off.
There are a lot of potential UUs from the new pokemon, Hawlucha is a nice alternative to Heracross/Mienshao, Barbaracle is a strong SS sweeper, Malamar can check a lot of setup pokemon like MoxieKrow, Curselax and Crocune, Diggersby seems like a solid wallbreaker and has priority STAB and U-Turn in its movepool and although this is unlikely Chesnaught's good physical defense, access to Spikes and typing that gives it favourable matchups against common threats like Rhyperior and Umbreon and UU spinners(Including potential candidate Donphan) means its at least viable.
For potential UU candidates one Mega I'd like to bring up that I feel is being ignored but quite a good one, even in the current OU environment, is Mega-Manetric. His blistering speed coupled with decent defense supplemented by Intimidate makes him an excellent volt-turner that will easily find a home in UU, and with all the bulky waters down there it certainly helps that he'll be a good member to check them in addition to checking potential defoggers (which are mostly flying types). He's also an excellent check to Steel types, resisting the STAB and firing off an Overheat in retaliation. Intimidate is a blessing in this gen especially for a volt-turner member due to the bias towards physical sweepers, and again that speed helps in softening/checking them. He may not be one of the most immediately powerful mega-evolutions but he's certainly a fine addition to any volt-turn teams IMO.
One candidate for UU I am somewhat on the fence on is Diggersby, another excellent addition to volt-turn teams, in that it is really good and I do see it with some frequency on teams higher up the ladder with regular frequency. I'm more worried if he will end up in OU or UU, and the recent statistics aren't all that optimistic in this regard. I'd love it if he made UU as he'd certainly shake the ladder up with his incredible offenses and possible support.
One candidate for UU I am somewhat on the fence on is Diggersby, another excellent addition to volt-turn teams, in that it is really good and I do see it with some frequency on teams higher up the ladder with regular frequency. I'm more worried if he will end up in OU or UU, and the recent statistics aren't all that optimistic in this regard. I'd love it if he made UU as he'd certainly shake the ladder up with his incredible offenses and possible support.
Flygon might surprisingly benefit from the presence of new dragons despite its lesser power, especially if the monster-powerful ones like Hydreigon go to BL. The three new dragon I've mentioned (Tyrantrum, Dragalge, M-Ampharos) all look like things, a Scarf Flygon could check well. While he obviously can't switch into Dragon attacks, Flygon still has a great typing that lets take the other STABs of all three (though he fears a burn from Dragalge's Scald)
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Tyrantrum is for sure UU because his Speed tier is awful. Jolly Tyranitar outspeeds Neutral Tyrantrum by one point. One. He also gets outsped by Jirachi and the Rotom appliances most popular sets by two points. Two. Running Jolly on him doesn't really help him outspeed anything significant aside from Heatran, either, so he's pretty much reliant on Dragon Dance if he wants to sweep. Maybe there's an effective way to build him as a tank, but I sure as heck haven't found it.
Upstart
Copy Cat
Unfortunately Heat Wave is only from the move tutor along side nasty plot (maybe next game). Chatot will truly be a terrifying force in the lower tiers. I think the jump will be from NU to RU as the power increase in UU is appearing exceptionally high, but we shall see. It is truly mind boggling how hard a specs Chatot can hit.
If you're saying a poke is bad because if his low speed, but then you're not even maxing out that speed, that kind of defeats your argument.
For the record, I think max + jolly Tyrantrum has just enough speed to be viable as a dragon dancer (just barely enough to outspeed base 130s at +1). On the other hand, you can use a rock polish + life orb set with an adamant nature to hit harder without the boost. You still do 60% to Skarm with head smash. I think that raw power alone will keep him on the fringes of OU, just like Haxorus last gen.
Hawlucha is a 6th gen mon. How would pokebank improve him ?
If you're talking about gems, they're not coming with the bank since items aren't transferred with it.
As good as Boomburst is, I don't think Specs would do well with 91 speed, nor Scarf with 92 special. That's UU, though. RU is a different story, and let's not forget that he has Nasty Plot.
Plus, there's Exploud and Noivern to consider, the both of which I expect to see in UU (Noivern for sure). Exploud has better bulk and no SR weakness while Noivern has much better speed and coverage.
As for other candidates, even though I'm a little late to the conversation, Chesnaught seems to have decent stats for it, kinda like a more powerful Breloom (who will probably fall since Low Sweep got a pseudo-boost, Spore got nerfed, and sleep mechanics got nerfed), and Spiky Shield is pretty cool with Leech Seed. Delphox might be OU, but definitely UU as it has quite a few niches it can provide, like Will-o-Wisp and Calm Mind. Greninja's speed, offenses, and insane ability are too good for UU.
Someone said weather setters will likely drop; Politoed can stay in OU because he can do something besides set up weather. Ninetales is gone from OU; Megazard Y gets Drought after all. Abomasnow was never great to begin with, not sure about his Mega, but low speed + bad defensive typing doesn't sound so good imo.
I think I did point out what happens when you max out his Speed. Read my post againt.
I did. Your argument is that his speed tier is terrible because he gets outsped by the Rotoms, Tyranitar and Jirachi with a neutral nature, but running jolly isn't worth it because you "only" outspeed Heatran. Like what? If those 3 pokes are really important, you run jolly and then you outspeed them.
For the record, I don't think outspeeding any of those specific pokes is important enough to focus on. I think Tyrantrum should always run max speed and switch natures depending on the boosting move you use (jolly for dragon dance, adamant for rock polish). I was just pointing out that your argument was flawed.
Except you're actually agreeing with me. Tyrantrum can't do crap without relying on Dragon Dance/Rock Polish, which makes him extremely predictable and he's going to get obliterated in OU when you compare him to Dragons like Garchomp and Salamence who can eat people without needing a boosting move. Regardless of what boosting move you run, fast scarfers will still outspeed and easily revenge Tyrantrum as well.
Not exactly. I don't think Salamence will be obliterating anyone this gen. I actually see Tyrantrum as way more viable than Salamence, because head smash is awesome and the dragon/ground/fire coverage that Mence has is pretty lame right now. Garchomp will be solidly OU, but mostly because he can swords dance or use his mega form in the sand for insane power.
As far as sets without boosting, Tyrantrum as a scarfer is way more viable than either of those 2 pokes because virtually anything commonly seen on those 2 mons has immunities (outrage, eq, fire blast, poison jab all have common immunities, while Garchomp's stone edge is the only common move that lacks an immunity, but it's really weak without STAB). Tyrantrum can just spam head smash and even dedicated walls like Skarmory can't stand up to it. Only bulky resists like Ferrothorn and Aggron can handle head smash spam. Plus, Tyrantrum can't be revenged by Talonflame unless he's extremely low, which is huge.
Who would rise up to stand up to the dragons? Metagross can take outrages, but most dragons have a way around steels. For example, what would be a switch in to the following Haxorus set?
Haxorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab / Substitute
Metagross himself gets earthquaked. Even Levitate Bronzong gets earthquaked with Mold Breaker. Ferroseed is a possibility. The fairies (minus Azumarill and Togekiss) are mostly specially defensive, so they'll have a tough time standing up to non-stabbed EQ off of 147 attack. We'd need something like Granbull if physical dragons get out of control. We may end up with a tier where Ferroseed, Clefable and Granbull are the top non-dragons...
In theory, specially based fairies (Florges) can play mindgames with dragons. Just their existence in the game would discourage people from just spamming dragon attacks, so you can play guessing games and either bring a fairy in, or bring in something that can take the dragon's coverage move. The problem I see with that is that Haxorus/Tyrantrum are gonna DD as the fairies switch in. No mindgames needed for the dragons, just click DD and beat whatever comes in.
I didn't even think of Scolipede. My mind for some reason just assumed it would jump to OU as the premier Baton Passer in the tier, but all the priority (especially Talonflame) is just too harsh on it. It'll probably find a home in UU where it could easily pass boosts (to Sharpedo, lol) or sweep.
Good point on Suicune. I enjoyed its presence in UU, but its definitely good enough to be OU.
As for Staraptor, I think Metagross, Doublade (holy @#$#@ I'm not looking forward to dealing with this thing, maybe this'll handle haxorus despite being weak to its coverage move) and maybe Mawile can switch in. Bronzong should be alright as well. Staraptor'll be beastly, but we have some tools to deal with it.
Froslass will be fun. Suicide spikes while playing 5v6 is not as strong (unless you're able to pull off a Destiny Bond to make it 5v5). Ice STAB can hit a lot of defoggers. It'll be good, but it should be fun, both to play as and to play against.
I hope Diggersby drops. I'm using it on my team so I'm hurting its chances (curses to people like me). It's powerful, and U-Turn/Quick Attack makes it intriguing but I don't think it's enough to shine in OU. It would be great and balanced in UU.
Tyrantrum is my fav Gen 6 mon and I hope it terrorizes UU. It's usable in OU but I think OU is just a bit too harsh for Tyrantrum to shine. Its speed is just passable enough for Scarf, its Head Smash is awesome for Banded. It can DD, Rock Polish, or set rocks. It actually sounds really scary, especially now that Metagross/Bronzong actually get hit by Crunch. Maybe Ferroseed will rise up to UU just to slay some dragons (come on, who is gonna run Fire Fang just for Ferro?)
Haxorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab / Substitute
Metagross himself gets earthquaked. Even Levitate Bronzong gets earthquaked with Mold Breaker. Ferroseed is a possibility. The fairies (minus Azumarill and Togekiss) are mostly specially defensive, so they'll have a tough time standing up to non-stabbed EQ off of 147 attack. We'd need something like Granbull if physical dragons get out of control. We may end up with a tier where Ferroseed, Clefable and Granbull are the top non-dragons...
In theory, specially based fairies (Florges) can play mindgames with dragons. Just their existence in the game would discourage people from just spamming dragon attacks, so you can play guessing games and either bring a fairy in, or bring in something that can take the dragon's coverage move. The problem I see with that is that Haxorus/Tyrantrum are gonna DD as the fairies switch in. No mindgames needed for the dragons, just click DD and beat whatever comes in.
I didn't even think of Scolipede. My mind for some reason just assumed it would jump to OU as the premier Baton Passer in the tier, but all the priority (especially Talonflame) is just too harsh on it. It'll probably find a home in UU where it could easily pass boosts (to Sharpedo, lol) or sweep.
Good point on Suicune. I enjoyed its presence in UU, but its definitely good enough to be OU.
As for Staraptor, I think Metagross, Doublade (holy @#$#@ I'm not looking forward to dealing with this thing, maybe this'll handle haxorus despite being weak to its coverage move) and maybe Mawile can switch in. Bronzong should be alright as well. Staraptor'll be beastly, but we have some tools to deal with it.
Froslass will be fun. Suicide spikes while playing 5v6 is not as strong (unless you're able to pull off a Destiny Bond to make it 5v5). Ice STAB can hit a lot of defoggers. It'll be good, but it should be fun, both to play as and to play against.
I hope Diggersby drops. I'm using it on my team so I'm hurting its chances (curses to people like me). It's powerful, and U-Turn/Quick Attack makes it intriguing but I don't think it's enough to shine in OU. It would be great and balanced in UU.
Tyrantrum is my fav Gen 6 mon and I hope it terrorizes UU. It's usable in OU but I think OU is just a bit too harsh for Tyrantrum to shine. Its speed is just passable enough for Scarf, its Head Smash is awesome for Banded. It can DD, Rock Polish, or set rocks. It actually sounds really scary, especially now that Metagross/Bronzong actually get hit by Crunch. Maybe Ferroseed will rise up to UU just to slay some dragons (come on, who is gonna run Fire Fang just for Ferro?)
Well In my opinion these Pokemon will become uu or future uu due to those suspect test. so without further ado
Mega Venasaur: With two weakness after mega-evolving bulky in both defence and sp.defence this thing is a monster. Although many think this is ou material remember that sun will be running wild and mega charizard y or x flamethrower burst through it like no tomorrow. Also remember alakazam, Cobalion ferrothorn staraptor sword dance talonflame aegislash and etc are most likely in ou. Sub seeding is wall and with venasaur coverage a offensive set is hard to use being walled by a lot
Carbink:support new shuckle nuffield said
Metagross:Steel typing has been nerfed this gen. Sure steel it se aganist fairy but it lose it resistances aganist dark and ghost type. And with mega gengar running rampant in ou shadow ball to the face is gonna hurt. It agility set is hard to use now because with added weakness ur gonna be taking so much damage too quickly. But with decent stat and a good movepool it stand a chance in uu. A big one.
Tyrantrum: Head Smash rock head choice scarf anhillation
Dragalgle: Great sp.defence good movepool although it defence are sky low when a choice band iron fist infernape fire punch is 2 hit ko. Adaptability and yeah.
Delphox: the rock kill but a calm mind set it sp.attack to legendary levels use this
Delphox Leftovers
252 speed sp. attack whatever remaining your choice modest
Flamethrower psyshock hp ice calm mind.
Goodra: Giant maybe because of the special attack nerf and the mega mawile popularity.
Mega Heracross: u know why tat ability pin missile and rock blast... Talonflame
Vivillion: It a farfetchd idea but qd sleep powder hurricane infestation. It might be the best bug flying type in year (sorry scyther)
Exploud and Noivern: great sp.attack movepool boombursrt for exploud while Noivern Draco inflirater. Omg oh and great speed. Sadly exploud doesn't get that.
Greninja: This is gonna drop when poke bank come out due to keldeo and Virizion walling it. Protean the only reason it would stay ou after all.
Diggersby: imagine Azumarill with a ground type that this thing normal ground huge power eq stone edge slap a life orb on it and whola. It is the ultimate ds aegislash check by the way.
Hawlucha: Flying Press no other reason
Galvauntla: Sticky Web
Zygarde:Worst legendary movepool evar probably get move up when z come out or instead we have ex and ey.
Gogoat: The miltank tarous hybrid that a grass type brilliant.
Charizard stealth rock reason only
Gardervoir mega: I can see this being in uu but nothing higher. Moon last psychic etc
Suicune: Legendary along with zapdos make sense?
Returning with no changes: Darmantian Rhyperior swampert machamp chandelure yanmega rakiou cobalion empoleon porygon 2 and z umberon nidoqueen and nidoking
Can see dropping: gothitelle breloom hydregion staraptor forretress starmie jolteon vaporeon Latios latias haxorus
Can see rising: moody bidoof smeargle ariados whimscott scolipede tan growth electrode mega absol and etc
Can see escaping uu: pinsir azumarill togekiss and etc
other 6th gen that can make uu. barbarnacle trevenent heilloskik chesnaught avalugg klefli doublade
Edit even longer well greninja forgot extrasensory but how often does it run that almost never so keldeo a counter. It can replace u turn but switch initiative is really handy but extrasensory doesn't provide much extra coverage.
Thank u for reading but this is my personal opinion so u may post your opinion if u want to
Mega Venasaur: With two weakness after mega-evolving bulky in both defence and sp.defence this thing is a monster. Although many think this is ou material remember that sun will be running wild and mega charizard y or x flamethrower burst through it like no tomorrow. Also remember alakazam, Cobalion ferrothorn staraptor sword dance talonflame aegislash and etc are most likely in ou. Sub seeding is wall and with venasaur coverage a offensive set is hard to use being walled by a lot
Carbink:support new shuckle nuffield said
Metagross:Steel typing has been nerfed this gen. Sure steel it se aganist fairy but it lose it resistances aganist dark and ghost type. And with mega gengar running rampant in ou shadow ball to the face is gonna hurt. It agility set is hard to use now because with added weakness ur gonna be taking so much damage too quickly. But with decent stat and a good movepool it stand a chance in uu. A big one.
Tyrantrum: Head Smash rock head choice scarf anhillation
Dragalgle: Great sp.defence good movepool although it defence are sky low when a choice band iron fist infernape fire punch is 2 hit ko. Adaptability and yeah.
Delphox: the rock kill but a calm mind set it sp.attack to legendary levels use this
Delphox Leftovers
252 speed sp. attack whatever remaining your choice modest
Flamethrower psyshock hp ice calm mind.
Goodra: Giant maybe because of the special attack nerf and the mega mawile popularity.
Mega Heracross: u know why tat ability pin missile and rock blast... Talonflame
Vivillion: It a farfetchd idea but qd sleep powder hurricane infestation. It might be the best bug flying type in year (sorry scyther)
Exploud and Noivern: great sp.attack movepool boombursrt for exploud while Noivern Draco inflirater. Omg oh and great speed. Sadly exploud doesn't get that.
Greninja: This is gonna drop when poke bank come out due to keldeo and Virizion walling it. Protean the only reason it would stay ou after all.
Diggersby: imagine Azumarill with a ground type that this thing normal ground huge power eq stone edge slap a life orb on it and whola. It is the ultimate ds aegislash check by the way.
Hawlucha: Flying Press no other reason
Galvauntla: Sticky Web
Zygarde:Worst legendary movepool evar probably get move up when z come out or instead we have ex and ey.
Gogoat: The miltank tarous hybrid that a grass type brilliant.
Charizard stealth rock reason only
Gardervoir mega: I can see this being in uu but nothing higher. Moon last psychic etc
Suicune: Legendary along with zapdos make sense?
Returning with no changes: Darmantian Rhyperior swampert machamp chandelure yanmega rakiou cobalion empoleon porygon 2 and z umberon nidoqueen and nidoking
Can see dropping: gothitelle breloom hydregion staraptor forretress starmie jolteon vaporeon Latios latias haxorus
Can see rising: moody bidoof smeargle ariados whimscott scolipede tan growth electrode mega absol and etc
Can see escaping uu: pinsir azumarill togekiss and etc
other 6th gen that can make uu. barbarnacle trevenent heilloskik chesnaught avalugg klefli doublade
Edit even longer well greninja forgot extrasensory but how often does it run that almost never so keldeo a counter. It can replace u turn but switch initiative is really handy but extrasensory doesn't provide much extra coverage.
Thank u for reading but this is my personal opinion so u may post your opinion if u want to
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Whether Greninja stays OU is neither here nor there but walled by Virizion and Keldeo? Lol
252 SpA (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 212-252 (54.92 - 65.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA (custom) Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 242-288 (74.69 - 88.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Those don't even take into account Life Orb, and I don't play UU but I think only Virizion's Dual screening sent runs max HP.
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