OU Suspect Testing Round 4 Voter Identification and Nominations

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RIP SOMALIA ^ (lol)

Nominating

DRIZZLE - I've been nominating and voting to ban this since round 1. Drizzle is flat out dumb and imo it is the main contributor to these dumb weather wars we have going. It creates highly favorable conditions for: nattorei , bronzong, jirachi, thundurus, politoed, toxicroak, azumaril, tornadus, gastrodon, every water / steel type, etc. The main sell out is it dumbs down the metagame, it centralizes it, and it also its pretty broken in my opinion contrary to many beliefs. For example starmie in the rain, as snunch mentioned, is more powerful than a specs Latios which has just about no solid counters. You literally click Hydro Pump / Coverage move to victory. Tornadus and Thundurus can abuse it by having 120 base power stab moves being 100% accuracy.

Secondly, I think complex bans are a horrible idea and they lead to this precendent. First people tried Speed Boost + Blaziken ban now they are trying Sandveil + Sandstream or Sand Veil + Garchomp Bans. This complex ban is creating what some might call a slippery slope and I think we need to stop it now. If we end the complex ban on Swift Swim + Drizzle then drizzle is CLEARLY uber and should be banned immediately anyways.

GARCHOMP - under 'lol clause'. All jokes aside Garchomp is the definition of a perfect pokemon. Stat wise, it has a speed stat above the average base in the speed tiers, its attack is phenomenal and to it all off hes bulky. Beside that he has arguably the best offensive typing with Dragon / Ground and has a great movepool that allows him to abuse it. On top of that is Sand-Viel. Sand Veil pushes chomp over the edge because it makes people miss attacks on him...A LOT....which pretty much gives him free turns to set up and attack making it very simple to sweep.

THUNDURUS - Is there anything that isn't 2HKO by this after a Nasty Plot? I think Quagsire and thats it. 111 base speed outspeeds 95% of the metagame and 115 / 125 base offenses is incredible. That fact that just about nothing can beat this besides two mediocre pokemon in Swampert and Quagsire, after a Nasty Plot, says it all. This thing is broken, flat out, theres not much else to say.

LATIOS - I know its already nominated but im just going to say this. BAN IT
 
Confirming as World So Cold.

Thunderus - Is there anything that can safely switch into this thing without taking a huge amount of damage? Wait, it gets Nasty Plot to aid it? And.. 111 base speed with 125 base special attack? Damn, what the hell is this thing? Now add Pranker to the mix with a +1 taunt and +1 thunder wave and bam! You have a fantastic sweeper, and great crippler, and the fact nothing can safely beat it after +2 besides maybe Swampert or Quagsire. Both of which aren't very reliable or common. I abused this genie with one of my previous teams, and I got to #4 with it rather quickly. Mainly on NP sweeps. This thing has had its fun, but now its time to kick it out.
Drizzle/Politoed- I suggest banning Drizzle because it greatly limits the pokemon that can be used in BW OU. I believe it leads to lack in creativity, and forces the use of weather(either this, sand, or sun). Apart from the creative perspective, it overpowers too many pokemon and helps abilties like Dry Skin, Rain Dish, and Hydration leading to an unpredictable turnout when facing it.
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Garchomp: Sand Veil is just dumb. There is about 70% chance that, after 5 Substitutes, one completely healthy Pokemon using 100% accurate moves will miss Garchomp at least once. That alone isn't a huge issue as Cacturne isn't the biggest bitch around, but when you couple that with a base 102 Speed, a high as hell attack and amazing defenses, which allow Garchomp to take an Ice Beam from Slowbro if entry hazards aren't down, you know a single miss can give Garchomp just enough power to muscle through a team.
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Confirming as Grimm70.

Nominations:

THUNDURUS: For all the reasons which people said, no counter blablabla.

Sandstorm+sand-viel or Garchomp: For all the reasons which people said², very good BS, good types + sand-viel ^^'.

Shell smash + Baton pass: It is really hard to counter it even with skarmory because once passed to Jirahaxx with iron head+ all the elementary punch it is unstopable. ( it is an exemple but there is many possibilities)
 
I'm qxs, [ol, and mka

Garchomp: Garchomp is one of the best OU pokemon in terms of stats, typing, and movepool. On top of that, it gets an ability which lets it heavily abuse luck. The Sub+SD set gives Garchomp many chances for free turns, especially against paralyzed opponents. When facing other OU threats, you know that your 100% accurate moves will hit. Facing Garchomp lacks that certainty, so I think it adds too much luck into the metagame.
 
Francis Arthur and Norgen Leugim, the sexiest immigrants in town:

Thundurus: This is just pretty ridiculous. Base 111 Speed means not even Latios can revenge kill, and thus you have a limited amount of Pokemon that can actually outspeed Thundurus (most of which are torn to pieces if they switch in, like Starmie). That leaves only priority and Scarfers to deal with the Nasty Plot set, and being Thundurus resistant to the 2 most common priority moves out there (Bullet Punch and Mach Punch), that really only leaves scarfed Pokemon. Yes, random Pokemon like Quagsire, Swampert, Chansey and Gastrodon can decently handle it (as long as it doesn't carry Grass Knot for the three Water-types), but limiting your counters to a pool of 4 Pokemon, all of which can be muscled through with some hazards support, is just ridiculous. And boy don't get me started on priority Taunt and Thunder Wave...

Garchomp: Sand Veil is just dumb. There is about 70% chance that, after 5 Substitutes, one completely healthy Pokemon using 100% accurate moves will miss Garchomp at least once. That alone isn't a huge issue as Cacturne isn't the biggest bitch around, but when you couple that with a base 102 Speed, a high as hell attack and amazing defenses, which allow Garchomp to take an Ice Beam from Slowbro if entry hazards aren't down, you know a single miss can give Garchomp just enough power to muscle through a team.
 
Stuntly

Luvdisc back to OU - Luvdisc won't fit into the uber setting, but can definitely see some usage in OU as a decent revenge killer.

and if the weather bans do take place, maybe even a UU tier in ubers for the not so strong ubers like Politoed (who will always be shadowed by Kyogre)
 
I'm Ginku.

And I'd like to nominate Garchomp. It just tears everything apart; subSD sets up on tons of things, and more or less the only things able to beat it are Skarmory and Bronzong, who fall to Fire Blast. On top of being impossible to wall, it's also incredibly hard to revenge kill with its swampert-level bulk, Sand Veil (which makes things a lot worse), and the occasional yache berry. While it is not possible to run sub/SD/fire blast/outrage/earthquake with leftovers and yache berry, it's also not possible to counter or even check them without extensive preparation. Not to mention that apart from being a ridiculously good sweeper it turns games into praying that your moves don't miss.

Oh btw I got an OU checkmark for voting in UU, that doesn't seem right.
 
Nominations

Drizzle/Politoed- I suggest banning Drizzle because it greatly limits the pokemon that can be used in BW OU. I believe it leads to lack in creativity, and forces the use of weather(either this, sand, or sun). Apart from the creative perspective, it overpowers too many pokemon and helps abilties like Dry Skin, Rain Dish, and Hydration leading to an unpredictable turnout when facing it.

Excadrill- I nominate Excadrill as a result of his ability Sand Rush; if Politoed leaves OU then I can see this taking over and becoming even more broken then what it already is imo. SD, Air Balloon, Rapid Spin, LO are just some of the assets that paired with increadibly high speed can wreck more then half the metagame. It forces the use of priority, steels off-ground, and a different weather user.

Garchomp- This guy is just broken with or without sand imo. The multiple sets it can run like SD, CB, CS, and Bulky SD just make it too difficult to handle and makes you have to resort to getting a pokemon killed especially when it is behind a substitute. Not to mention that Sand Veil adds on to the torture Garchomp can cause in OU. Strongth as fuk imo.

Drought- Nominating it now because it will wreck if Politoed leaves, and is already strong as fuk with the secondary effects it has on Fire-Type moves and Chloropyhll pokemon.
 
I am confirming as : ihopethisworks

SandVeil: As we all know Garchomp is the best user of the ability sandveil and also the most annoying in the current metagame. Garchomp without addressing sandveil is a very powerful pokemon that can sweep with just one SD, however the most sweeps occur when the opponent misses a move because of sandveil. This doesn't mean that Garchomp alone is broken though. With his typing, movesets, and stats he is very good but not quite uber material. Garchomp's typing makes him very good in OU but not overpowered unless sandveil activates. Banning SandVeil would be a great option so Garchomp won't be as abusable.

Thundurus: Thundurus is an extremely powerful pokemon right from the start. With his base 115 atk, 125 sp atk, and base 111 speed with a great move pool on top of that he is already good enough to be a mixed sweeper or just an sp atk sweeper. Not only that though he has the ability prankster and moves like thunder wave, nasty plot, and substitute. Thundurus is hard to check once he is +2 in sp atk unless you have blissey or chansey. With LO he nearly ohkos sp def rachi and when used in rain with Lo Thunder OHKOs rachi with life orb at +2. This makes thundurus extremely hard to counter. His only weakness as far as coverage is focus blast misses a lot but still has decent acc considering it hits more than half of the time. Even without NO thundurs with a +1 priority thunder wave cripples teams and stops sweepers without struggling.
 
Nominations
Garchomp-Its more of a problem to slower teams actually, since it can subspam on most slow pokemon. When there are excadrills, chloraphyll users, and the genies running around, its almost impossible to build a team without a solid defensive core. Garchomp can beat many of these defensive cores, and gliscor doesn't counter it because it gets 2KO by a +2 dragon claw. That leaves only bronzong, quagsire (it gets 3 Koed with spikes, and I don't know if that warrants that as a counter), and skarmory as reliable counters.
Thunderous-Basically same as garchomp actually, few pokemon can outspeed it and it can beat chansey and blissey with proper toxic spikes and stealth rock support.
 
For the first time ever, I'm not going to nominate Excadrill. The only thing I'm going to nominate this time is

Drizzle

I've been on board with banning Drizzle since day 1. My general idea regarding Drizzle is "Why not?" Even without Swift Swimmers, it's silly how easy Drizzle is to abuse, and it's stupidly easy to fit on to a team, hence "Why not?" Simply because of the threat, you're forced to run either your own weather or dedicated anti-weather Pokemon. Whats more is that the main Pokemon that abuse Drizzle nowadays are still excellent outside of rain, such as Thundurus, Tornadus, Latios, Scizor, and Ferrothorn. As much as I love Politoed itself, I really want to see Drizzle go away forever.

As a side note, BAN LATIOS
 
-Ban Drizzle

Still way too powerful, and it will continue to be. It makes Thundurus/Starmie/Latios/Tornadus/etc far too powerful, and immediately puts non-weather at a substantial disadvantage. Recent statistics support this, as the otherwise useless Politoed sits comfortably within the top 20 at rank 14. The fact that we took Aldaron's route rather than voting on Drizzle at face value is something that still does not sit well with me, and even taking that into account Drizzle succeeds as the most effective weather.

-Unban Manaphy

On the condition that Drizzle is banned, I would like Manaphy to be retested. The loss of a coverage/defensive move that would result from the need to run Rain Dance would open Manaphy up to substantially more checks and counters, allowing it to fit viably into OU.
 
Identifying as LowNoHP.

Garchomp: Garchomp has been omnipresent this Generation. With the Substitute+SandStream+Sand Veil Combo, the only consistent counters to Garchomp tend to be Skarmory, Bronzong, and the occasional Rest Talk Gyara. This has caused to some extent an overcentralization of defense in the metagame. The Sand Veil argument is going to be made time and time again on this thread because it takes true skill out of the equation. Sand Veil misses have caused many losses recently ,(especially during the Smogon Tour) and while there is always luck in pokemon, Garchomp abuses "luck" to an unfair advantage.

Thundurus: Thundurus is most likely the most threatening Special Sweeper in the current Metagame. Without a truly dedicated Special Wall, Thundurus can put huge holes in any team. Even with a Special Wall such as Chansey or Blissey, Thundurus can almost bypass them through the use of Nasty Plot. While his abilities aren't terribly threatening his stats and movepool far outclass most pokemon in OU.
 
Not identifying, ran out of time again. Fuck you laser-guided karma, and fuck you real life for doing this shit.

Nomination(s) :

Garchomp - He'd be perfectly fine if Sand Veil didn't push him over the edge, but it does. Sure 102 speed isn't as amazing as it used to be, but that doesn't matter if he can abuse sand with substitutes. You are probably going to lose something to this thing. That, and he still hits like a truck with bulk on par with Swampert of all things. Couple it with the best offensive typing in the game and a Thunder Wave immunity and you have this thing. No checks are guaranteed unless you're running a weather to disrupt sandstorm. The only thing that outright can stand against this is what, Bronzong and maybe Skarmory.

My main beef with this thing is Sand Veil. On say, Gliscor or Cacturne, it's of no major consequence if you miss. A miss against this thing on the otherhand will probably cost you a mon, and maybe the match if you're unlucky enough. Add that with my thought process of just banning the pokemon if the ability doesn't break every poke with it, and that's about as simple a reason to get rid of him.

Shell Smash + Baton Pass (SmashPassing): This shit is ridiculous. HURR PASS +2 ATTACK AND AGILITY BOOST IN TWO TURNS HURR. Fuck you and fuck your mother's cunt hair if you use this. It's stupidly powerful too seeing how Gorebyss and by extension Huntail can find enough openings to do this. If they pass it off to something that can handle a priority hit, it's GG. Nevermind the fact that even if you survive against it, it'll probably just find another opening to pass off ANOTHER Shell Smash. You practically need Haze, Perish Song, or some other move, and the latter isn't even guaranteed with Espeon running around. Hell, even Smeargle can do it, arguably even better with Spore.

Just... I give up if this crap happens. Unless you can phaze out Gorebyss while it's passing or KO it before the pass combo completes, you'll be facing down something at +2/+2 for it's offensive stats and speed. Now try applying that to something like Lucario, who doesn't really worry much about priority outside of Mach Punch, and chances are they're dead from a boosted Extremespeed. Now realize that there are probably other Pokemon waiting in the wings for another boost, after your team is weakened after dealing with this combo once during a battle.


That's all.

I personally don't feel as though weathers need to go, seeing how they currently keep each other in check.
 
Noms:

Drizzle: Despite swsw+drizzle being banned a while back, drizzle is still by far the best weather. It grants already defensive steels an important fire neutrality and provides water types with double stab hydro pumps. Specs politoed 3hkos blissey in the rain, getting a possible 2hko with sr/spikes support. Starmie is a monster in the rain, sporting great coverage, good defensive typing, and outstanding speed. Drizzle forces players to run ninetales or ttar, neither of whom can safely take a specs hydro pump even in their respective weathers, in order to prevent the match from being a terribly uphill battle. As much as I love rain, it's time for it to go.

Thundurus: There isn't a lot to be said for it other than it has very few reliable checks, has access to nasty plot, has 111 base speed, and can cripple scarfers that might normally stop it with t-wave.

Garchomp: Since the sub+sd set was popularized, garchomp has become a menace to the metagame. Sand veil isn't even the only problem. While garchomp loves the 20% accuracy drop in sand, sub+sd chomp still works amazingly well outside of the sand. Other than skarmory and bronzong (who still risk getting fireblasted/fanged), nothing can come in on garchomp certain that it won't get ko'ed. It's fast, bulky beyond appearance, and threatens nearly everything in OU.

Excadrill: The only reason that people don't complain about excadrill as often is because we overprepare for it. Outside of changing the weather, The only pokes that can check it are skarm (who can do nothing other than ww it away), conkeldurr, azumarill, gliscor, and tangrowth (who can still be threatened with balloon variants).

Get rid of latios this time kthx

EDIT: I'm also going to nominate Drought/Sandstream/Snow warning. Even if drizzle goes, the metagame will still be heavily centralized around weather (sun and sand, more specifically). Most teams that aren't sun teams are still going to require running ttar in order to not get utterly decimated by su n sweepers, which will do nothing to help the stagnant metagame
 
Identifying as Ro²

Nominations :

Sand Veil + Sand Stream (or Garchomp if it's too complex) : That's already said. Garchomp is very strong, and Sand Veil puts it over the edge. Its only counters (and there aren't a lot) can't counter it under tss.
As Franky, if it gonna be banned, i sugger to debann it when it can use Rough Skin for a new test period.

Thundurus : Already said too, it can too easily sweep the entire metagame with its movepool and its access to Nasty Plot. Can only be RK'd by Scarf, Ice Shard. And that isn't normal when you have to play Quagsire to safety switch on it...

Shell Smash + Baton Pass : Just put Gorebyss on a Pokemon who can't KO him after its Shell Smash and then (so, an easy strategy to play), you have to manage very hard to counter the baton pass receiver who can sweep hard your team when you just can practilly use priority move against him.

Reuniclus : I would like to not forget this thing who has a really bad influence of the metagame. The minder one outstall entire stallteam alone and can take very strong physical move, when its ability give him free set-up and switch-in against Pokemon who can't do anything on him. The Trickroom one is very hard to deal with offense team and you just have to make no mistakes in your prediction during 4 tours if you don't wanna loose a member (or more) of your team or seeing one of these almost dead.
 
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