-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
The Outsiders Challenge — Mk II
- Thread starter Harsha
- Start date
- Status
Name: undisputed
Alt: dancing dragons
Ladder standing: 7-1, 1420
ugh I just realized starmie isn't allowed god damn it... Stalled my way to 1816 and man I'm so disappointed in my inability to read
Alt: dancing dragons
Ladder standing: 7-1, 1420
ugh I just realized starmie isn't allowed god damn it... Stalled my way to 1816 and man I'm so disappointed in my inability to read
Name: senegal
Alt: tunisia
Ladder standing: 1855
Currently using Metagross in the absence of Jirachi and Scizor, proving to be pretty underwhelming so far.
Finding it difficult to break through 1850, missing Heatran the most.
What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
At first, I didn't think the challenge of teambuilding would be too, err, challenging. The cohort of pokes sitting below the top 10 are still great (I mean Salamence is there for one!) and are staples on many successful teams. It did not feel like a chore to pick 6 from that group. That being said, there were definitely times when Heatran or Jirachi would have made the perfect fit and I was made to change my team to accommodate the "replacement"; that was fun. I also discovered that my first attempt at offense was a flop, so I opted to stall instead.
How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
My battles seemed to take a bit longer, maybe just due to the nature of my team but also I think because I was not autopiloting with roles I was very used to. I did a fair amount of damage calcing with my walls lol.
What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this?
None of the banned pokemon felt impossible to handle, even without the use of said pokemon on my own team. However, Genesect was a huge challenge. As Lavos Spawn mentioned, two of its great checks were banned, and the special sponge I opted for (Latias) was not a consistently great switch in to the metal bug. I also severely missed the options of steels Ferro, Scizor, Jirachi and Heatran. I hadn't realized just how well those 4 worked at fulfilling dual roles of checking dragons and setting hazards/revenge killing/special walling until I asked things like Forry and Metagross to do it.
What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat?
I modified a former hail stall team of mine with a scarf Kyurem cleaner.
The hardest teams to face were those will well played Ttars and spinblockers. A set of rocks on my side easily limits my switching, which I think was my strength in this team, and Ttar can actually threaten every single member of my team. Beating Ttar ALWAYS required keeping hazards up on my opponent's field and usually meant getting a smart (and accurate) Will-o-Wisp or Focus Blast in.
I found a specially defensive Latias to be my saving grace in place of things like Heatran and Jirachi, able to take on sun teams, Tornadus, Thundurus, and keep CM Reunis at bay until I was ready for it. Forry, Jelli, and Aboma are pretty self explanatory; hazards + spinblocker + hail. Hail really is a wonderful weather for stall cause nothing* on your opponents team is getting lefties back, and even Heatran and Rachi can only take so many Blizzard + hazard switch ins. Metagross was my most awkward member, and I still think he could be improved. I just really needed a steel type that could actually threaten dragons and something physical to scare away Blissey/Chansey. Pursuit was a nice touch for taking out Lati@s, and he actually wasnt a bad Ttar switch in even if he caught a Flamethrower to the face.
*barring opposing hail teams
What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
Enjoyed it, would be fun to chop off even more than the top 10 + 3 monsters
Alt: tunisia
Ladder standing: 1855
Currently using Metagross in the absence of Jirachi and Scizor, proving to be pretty underwhelming so far.
Finding it difficult to break through 1850, missing Heatran the most.
What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
At first, I didn't think the challenge of teambuilding would be too, err, challenging. The cohort of pokes sitting below the top 10 are still great (I mean Salamence is there for one!) and are staples on many successful teams. It did not feel like a chore to pick 6 from that group. That being said, there were definitely times when Heatran or Jirachi would have made the perfect fit and I was made to change my team to accommodate the "replacement"; that was fun. I also discovered that my first attempt at offense was a flop, so I opted to stall instead.
How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
My battles seemed to take a bit longer, maybe just due to the nature of my team but also I think because I was not autopiloting with roles I was very used to. I did a fair amount of damage calcing with my walls lol.
What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this?
None of the banned pokemon felt impossible to handle, even without the use of said pokemon on my own team. However, Genesect was a huge challenge. As Lavos Spawn mentioned, two of its great checks were banned, and the special sponge I opted for (Latias) was not a consistently great switch in to the metal bug. I also severely missed the options of steels Ferro, Scizor, Jirachi and Heatran. I hadn't realized just how well those 4 worked at fulfilling dual roles of checking dragons and setting hazards/revenge killing/special walling until I asked things like Forry and Metagross to do it.
What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat?
I modified a former hail stall team of mine with a scarf Kyurem cleaner.
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 236 HP / 200 Def / 72 Spd
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic
- Recover
Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
Metagross @ Choice Band
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 208 HP / 190 Atk / 108 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Pursuit
Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 236 HP / 200 Def / 72 Spd
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic
- Recover
Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
Metagross @ Choice Band
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 208 HP / 190 Atk / 108 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Pursuit
Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
The hardest teams to face were those will well played Ttars and spinblockers. A set of rocks on my side easily limits my switching, which I think was my strength in this team, and Ttar can actually threaten every single member of my team. Beating Ttar ALWAYS required keeping hazards up on my opponent's field and usually meant getting a smart (and accurate) Will-o-Wisp or Focus Blast in.
I found a specially defensive Latias to be my saving grace in place of things like Heatran and Jirachi, able to take on sun teams, Tornadus, Thundurus, and keep CM Reunis at bay until I was ready for it. Forry, Jelli, and Aboma are pretty self explanatory; hazards + spinblocker + hail. Hail really is a wonderful weather for stall cause nothing* on your opponents team is getting lefties back, and even Heatran and Rachi can only take so many Blizzard + hazard switch ins. Metagross was my most awkward member, and I still think he could be improved. I just really needed a steel type that could actually threaten dragons and something physical to scare away Blissey/Chansey. Pursuit was a nice touch for taking out Lati@s, and he actually wasnt a bad Ttar switch in even if he caught a Flamethrower to the face.
*barring opposing hail teams
What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
Enjoyed it, would be fun to chop off even more than the top 10 + 3 monsters
Name: BlueAquaRabbit
Alt: Mordin Solus
Ladder Standing: None yet
Alt: Mordin Solus
Ladder Standing: None yet
lol just realised Lavos Spawn and I, by pure coincidence have pretty much the same team rofl. Might put my challenge on hold so I can ladder with something different xD
Anyway, current experiences
Firstly, dealing with Genosect / Tornadus-T and Dragons to a certain extent, is really tricky since a fair amount of steel types are banned for this challenge. With that said, while not using those 13 pokemon was indeed tough, as far as laddering went, it was fairly easy. I was bored so I chucked Deoxys D + 5 sweepers and tested that for a few battles on an alt and it was fairly easy to get up wins. I think the tricky part of the challenge really is teambuilding, once you get that team built, its not hard at all to ladder.
Anyway, current experiences
Firstly, dealing with Genosect / Tornadus-T and Dragons to a certain extent, is really tricky since a fair amount of steel types are banned for this challenge. With that said, while not using those 13 pokemon was indeed tough, as far as laddering went, it was fairly easy. I was bored so I chucked Deoxys D + 5 sweepers and tested that for a few battles on an alt and it was fairly easy to get up wins. I think the tricky part of the challenge really is teambuilding, once you get that team built, its not hard at all to ladder.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
Damn, sorry about that. Can you PM me your team? I'd like to see just how similar they are.
EDIT: We have 3 of the same Pokemon and the same basic playstyle. I guess great minds think alike.
I have to agree with on this. Team Building is exceptionally hard seeing as how the pokemon banned a typically pokemon I slap onto a team as glue.
I've been playing around with a Jelli/Ferro combo with sweepers and wall breakers. So far it's been okay. Nothing magnificent in the way of underused sets or pokes.
Name: tytoandnoob
Alt: tytoandnoob
Ladder Rank: 1417
Currently using Hippowdown + Sand Rush Sandslash, and Mienshao as a scout/revenger.
Alt: tytoandnoob
Ladder Rank: 1417
Currently using Hippowdown + Sand Rush Sandslash, and Mienshao as a scout/revenger.
Name: Audiosurfer
Alt: Magileine
Ladder Rank: 1562
Alt: Magileine
Ladder Rank: 1562
MEHNDIbuzz Is God
Name: Jobriq
Alt: TunakTunakTaco
Ladder standing: 1952, 144-15
Wow this was hard
I guess I'm second to finish?
anyway
1. What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
I used a team which I laddered with before and managed to peak 7th OU around 1900 ACRE (I don't know how, it was before Techniloom and Genesect were released) and the only poke I had to replace was heatran. I tried bronzong, empoleon and registeel and ultimately bronzong worked the best, but zong hardly filled heatran's role as Tran was my main switch in to common sun sweepers. I was even using Heatproof Bronzong which actually worked. Tho only time it hurt me to not have levitate was a few times when zong took spikes damage.
2. How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
Playing around my team's fire weakness was very difficult especially in sun. I often had to sack a poke in order to get Abomasnow in without dying. One of the crushing defeats I had was against a Gen4 style sunny day team. (Gen4 style as in using heat rock and the move sunny day)
Looking at my team you'll notice it has quite a few troublesome weaknesses, but I think my success on the ladder relied in part on the element of surprise my team has. I use Mandibuzz (MEHNDIbuzz) as a special wall and the average PS random playing OU will not know what to expect from an RU poke they've never seen in OU before. For example, many of my opponents switched their ferrothorn in to set up hazards only to be taunted and then lose ferrothorn's lefties to knock off (yes, I was actually using knock off).
Also multiple times a heatran would lava plume or fire blast my bronzong expecting a KO, only to have it do half damage and be KOd themselves by bronzong's EQ.
3. What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
The main things that gave me trouble were breloom and thundurus-t. Breloom is always tricky to deal with due to spore and subpunch, but skarmory and tentacruel help defend against him, and kyurem destroys breloom with blizzard if it's not behind a sub. Techniloom was dangerous as well but I used timid Tent in order to outspeed and KO with blizzard.
Thundurus-T can sweep my entire team if it puts up a sub to prevent abomasnow from revenging with ice shard (also barring focus blast missing kyurem) as my team is rather electric weak. Abomasnow often ends up paralyzed from switching into thunders.
4. What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
I used a full stall Hail team with the deceptively bulky SubRoost Kyurem to pressure stall those troublesome high power moves that often come with a measley 8 pp, and also to blast things with its deadly Blizzard. It faired well against some rain teams as the rain makes it easier for tentacruel to spin hazards and set up Tspikes, and abomasnow beats any politoed without specs focus blast. My team had serious difficulties against sun teams since I couldn't use heatran. Voltturn also gave me trouble, especially if they had magnezone. Actually, almost any team with magnezone gives me serious trouble as I don't use shed shell on skarmory because of hail damage and without skarmory, all sorts of physical sweepers can destroy me. My team can generally deal with donphan and forretress easily and set up hazards once they're gone, but opposing starmie and tentacruel were a big pain as its pretty easy for then to spin away my hazards although starmie is destroyed by wood hammer. Abomasnow actually kills a lot of things with wood hammer in my matches because most of my opponents seem to expect blizzard spam over a physical abomasnow.
http://pastebin.com/vtu0JBT1
5. What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
I loved this challenge. I love to use uncommon pokemon on the ladder (I played 300+ OU battles with MEHNDIbuzz in August) and its nice to have some fresh battles without the usual OU faces. I could keep writing about my team and my laddering experience, but this post is getting a little long. Maybe I'll make an RMT of my original team eventually.
Name: Jobriq
Alt: TunakTunakTaco
Ladder standing: 1952, 144-15
Wow this was hard
I guess I'm second to finish?
anyway
1. What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
I used a team which I laddered with before and managed to peak 7th OU around 1900 ACRE (I don't know how, it was before Techniloom and Genesect were released) and the only poke I had to replace was heatran. I tried bronzong, empoleon and registeel and ultimately bronzong worked the best, but zong hardly filled heatran's role as Tran was my main switch in to common sun sweepers. I was even using Heatproof Bronzong which actually worked. Tho only time it hurt me to not have levitate was a few times when zong took spikes damage.
2. How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
Playing around my team's fire weakness was very difficult especially in sun. I often had to sack a poke in order to get Abomasnow in without dying. One of the crushing defeats I had was against a Gen4 style sunny day team. (Gen4 style as in using heat rock and the move sunny day)
Looking at my team you'll notice it has quite a few troublesome weaknesses, but I think my success on the ladder relied in part on the element of surprise my team has. I use Mandibuzz (MEHNDIbuzz) as a special wall and the average PS random playing OU will not know what to expect from an RU poke they've never seen in OU before. For example, many of my opponents switched their ferrothorn in to set up hazards only to be taunted and then lose ferrothorn's lefties to knock off (yes, I was actually using knock off).
Also multiple times a heatran would lava plume or fire blast my bronzong expecting a KO, only to have it do half damage and be KOd themselves by bronzong's EQ.
3. What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
The main things that gave me trouble were breloom and thundurus-t. Breloom is always tricky to deal with due to spore and subpunch, but skarmory and tentacruel help defend against him, and kyurem destroys breloom with blizzard if it's not behind a sub. Techniloom was dangerous as well but I used timid Tent in order to outspeed and KO with blizzard.
Thundurus-T can sweep my entire team if it puts up a sub to prevent abomasnow from revenging with ice shard (also barring focus blast missing kyurem) as my team is rather electric weak. Abomasnow often ends up paralyzed from switching into thunders.
4. What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
I used a full stall Hail team with the deceptively bulky SubRoost Kyurem to pressure stall those troublesome high power moves that often come with a measley 8 pp, and also to blast things with its deadly Blizzard. It faired well against some rain teams as the rain makes it easier for tentacruel to spin hazards and set up Tspikes, and abomasnow beats any politoed without specs focus blast. My team had serious difficulties against sun teams since I couldn't use heatran. Voltturn also gave me trouble, especially if they had magnezone. Actually, almost any team with magnezone gives me serious trouble as I don't use shed shell on skarmory because of hail damage and without skarmory, all sorts of physical sweepers can destroy me. My team can generally deal with donphan and forretress easily and set up hazards once they're gone, but opposing starmie and tentacruel were a big pain as its pretty easy for then to spin away my hazards although starmie is destroyed by wood hammer. Abomasnow actually kills a lot of things with wood hammer in my matches because most of my opponents seem to expect blizzard spam over a physical abomasnow.
http://pastebin.com/vtu0JBT1
5. What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
I loved this challenge. I love to use uncommon pokemon on the ladder (I played 300+ OU battles with MEHNDIbuzz in August) and its nice to have some fresh battles without the usual OU faces. I could keep writing about my team and my laddering experience, but this post is getting a little long. Maybe I'll make an RMT of my original team eventually.
Ok, this seems fun :)
Name: Hot N Cold
Alt: Altagracia Loreal
Ladder standing: None yet
Name: Hot N Cold
Alt: Altagracia Loreal
Ladder standing: None yet
Name: MysticNova
Alt: Memories
Ladder standing: 1644
Alt: Memories
Ladder standing: 1644
Magma
Guest
Name: Magma
Alt: Magmarizer
Ladder standing: N/A
Alt: Magmarizer
Ladder standing: N/A
Congrats to Lavos for starting this challenge with a bang!
Shame on anyone who uses Sun, Deoxys-D, or a Baton Pass team to cruise through this challenge >:o Anybody found cheating using any of the banned 13 mons would be disqualified and infracted under bad sportsmanship.
Name: Pocket
Alt: PockOut
Ladder standing: 1710
Shame on anyone who uses Sun, Deoxys-D, or a Baton Pass team to cruise through this challenge >:o Anybody found cheating using any of the banned 13 mons would be disqualified and infracted under bad sportsmanship.
Name: Pocket
Alt: PockOut
Ladder standing: 1710
Name: Me So Shiny
Alt: Gettin it
Ladder Standing: 1604 ( just ran out of bonus pool, gonna be slow rising from here)
I have found that Salamence and Landorus are my best friends, I just have to get mamo and weavile out of the way first
Alt: Gettin it
Ladder Standing: 1604 ( just ran out of bonus pool, gonna be slow rising from here)
I have found that Salamence and Landorus are my best friends, I just have to get mamo and weavile out of the way first
Name: DarkBlazeR
Alt: Perpetual Motion
Ladder: N/A (new alt for the challenge)
Alt: Perpetual Motion
Ladder: N/A (new alt for the challenge)
Thanks for asking before doing so -- I forgot to include that in the OP. You need to start if you make substantial modifications to the original team, but if you're improving it by just switching out one Pokemon that makes the team more efficient or swapping moves, feel free to keep the same alt.
Also congratulations to Lavos Spawn for winning the challenge within the first two days. We'll see if he can get past the 1950 barrier later!
So how is everyone else faring? I've seen a lot of people in the upper 1700s, are there any specific difficulties you're facing? Part of the reason I decided to host this challenge now is that I wanted to see what ways people used to deal with Tornadus-T, considering Jirachi, arguably its best counter, is banned.
edit: congrats Jobriq and senegal. To everyone else, please post again instead of editing so I actually see the post!
Also congratulations to Lavos Spawn for winning the challenge within the first two days. We'll see if he can get past the 1950 barrier later!
So how is everyone else faring? I've seen a lot of people in the upper 1700s, are there any specific difficulties you're facing? Part of the reason I decided to host this challenge now is that I wanted to see what ways people used to deal with Tornadus-T, considering Jirachi, arguably its best counter, is banned.
edit: congrats Jobriq and senegal. To everyone else, please post again instead of editing so I actually see the post!
- Status