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The Outsiders Challenge — Mk II

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Harsha, Sep 2, 2012.

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  1. 1996ITO


    Jun 21, 2011
    Name: 1996ITO
    Alt: Don Juan
    Ladder standing: 701
  2. jeppeapan


    May 31, 2012
    name:Ladder sucks
    Alt: Fix ladder
    ladder Standing: lets see about that
  3. undisputed

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Aug 16, 2009
    Name: undisputed
    Alt: dancing dragons
    Ladder standing: 7-1, 1420

    ugh I just realized starmie isn't allowed god damn it... Stalled my way to 1816 and man I'm so disappointed in my inability to read
  4. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a defending SPL Champion

    Oct 22, 2006
    Name: chimpact
    Alt: champact
    Ladder standing: 1808 (30-5 or something like that). few DC's and first game lost because of not having full moveslots on my pokes :[.
  5. senegal


    Aug 27, 2012
    Name: senegal
    Alt: tunisia
    Ladder standing: 1855

    Currently using Metagross in the absence of Jirachi and Scizor, proving to be pretty underwhelming so far.

    Finding it difficult to break through 1850, missing Heatran the most.


    What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
    At first, I didn't think the challenge of teambuilding would be too, err, challenging. The cohort of pokes sitting below the top 10 are still great (I mean Salamence is there for one!) and are staples on many successful teams. It did not feel like a chore to pick 6 from that group. That being said, there were definitely times when Heatran or Jirachi would have made the perfect fit and I was made to change my team to accommodate the "replacement"; that was fun. I also discovered that my first attempt at offense was a flop, so I opted to stall instead.

    How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
    My battles seemed to take a bit longer, maybe just due to the nature of my team but also I think because I was not autopiloting with roles I was very used to. I did a fair amount of damage calcing with my walls lol.

    What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this?
    None of the banned pokemon felt impossible to handle, even without the use of said pokemon on my own team. However, Genesect was a huge challenge. As Lavos Spawn mentioned, two of its great checks were banned, and the special sponge I opted for (Latias) was not a consistently great switch in to the metal bug. I also severely missed the options of steels Ferro, Scizor, Jirachi and Heatran. I hadn't realized just how well those 4 worked at fulfilling dual roles of checking dragons and setting hazards/revenge killing/special walling until I asked things like Forry and Metagross to do it.

    What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat?
    I modified a former hail stall team of mine with a scarf Kyurem cleaner.
    Show Hide
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball

    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Leech Seed
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 236 HP / 200 Def / 72 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Surf
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Draco Meteor
    - Focus Blast
    - Earth Power

    Metagross @ Choice Band
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 208 HP / 190 Atk / 108 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Meteor Mash
    - Hammer Arm
    - Pursuit

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roar

    The hardest teams to face were those will well played Ttars and spinblockers. A set of rocks on my side easily limits my switching, which I think was my strength in this team, and Ttar can actually threaten every single member of my team. Beating Ttar ALWAYS required keeping hazards up on my opponent's field and usually meant getting a smart (and accurate) Will-o-Wisp or Focus Blast in.

    I found a specially defensive Latias to be my saving grace in place of things like Heatran and Jirachi, able to take on sun teams, Tornadus, Thundurus, and keep CM Reunis at bay until I was ready for it. Forry, Jelli, and Aboma are pretty self explanatory; hazards + spinblocker + hail. Hail really is a wonderful weather for stall cause nothing* on your opponents team is getting lefties back, and even Heatran and Rachi can only take so many Blizzard + hazard switch ins. Metagross was my most awkward member, and I still think he could be improved. I just really needed a steel type that could actually threaten dragons and something physical to scare away Blissey/Chansey. Pursuit was a nice touch for taking out Lati@s, and he actually wasnt a bad Ttar switch in even if he caught a Flamethrower to the face.

    *barring opposing hail teams

    What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
    Enjoyed it, would be fun to chop off even more than the top 10 + 3 monsters
  6. BlueAquaRabbit


    Aug 3, 2012
    Name: BlueAquaRabbit
    Alt: Mordin Solus
    Ladder Standing: None yet
  7. ginganinja

    ginganinja How do I live? How do I breathe?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    lol just realised Lavos Spawn and I, by pure coincidence have pretty much the same team rofl. Might put my challenge on hold so I can ladder with something different xD

    Anyway, current experiences

    Firstly, dealing with Genosect / Tornadus-T and Dragons to a certain extent, is really tricky since a fair amount of steel types are banned for this challenge. With that said, while not using those 13 pokemon was indeed tough, as far as laddering went, it was fairly easy. I was bored so I chucked Deoxys D + 5 sweepers and tested that for a few battles on an alt and it was fairly easy to get up wins. I think the tricky part of the challenge really is teambuilding, once you get that team built, its not hard at all to ladder.
  8. Joeyboy

    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Nov 30, 2010
    Name: Joeyboy
    Alt: Loose Seal
    Ladder standing: 1711

    Did some battles between classes.

    PS how do you make screenshots 0_0 (noob)
  9. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Mar 17, 2012
    Damn, sorry about that. Can you PM me your team? I'd like to see just how similar they are.

    EDIT: We have 3 of the same Pokemon and the same basic playstyle. I guess great minds think alike.
  10. NATdude


    Oct 8, 2011
    Ugh I've got to start over because someone already has the username "the kraken" and it's just told me now.
    Name: Natdude101
    Ladder standing: None....sigh
  11. NATdude


    Oct 8, 2011
    I have to agree with on this. Team Building is exceptionally hard seeing as how the pokemon banned a typically pokemon I slap onto a team as glue.

    I've been playing around with a Jelli/Ferro combo with sweepers and wall breakers. So far it's been okay. Nothing magnificent in the way of underused sets or pokes.
  12. tytoandnoob


    Jun 15, 2012
    Name: tytoandnoob
    Alt: tytoandnoob
    Ladder Rank: 1417

    Currently using Hippowdown + Sand Rush Sandslash, and Mienshao as a scout/revenger.
  13. Audiosurfer

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 24, 2012
    Name: Audiosurfer
    Alt: Magileine
    Ladder Rank: 1562
  14. Jobriq


    Oct 31, 2011
    MEHNDIbuzz Is God

    Name: Jobriq
    Alt: TunakTunakTaco
    Ladder standing: 1952, 144-15
    Wow this was hard
    Show Hide

    I guess I'm second to finish?

    1. What did you think was the biggest challenge when not being allowed to use any of the restricted Pokemon? Was it overcomeable?
    I used a team which I laddered with before and managed to peak 7th OU around 1900 ACRE (I don't know how, it was before Techniloom and Genesect were released) and the only poke I had to replace was heatran. I tried bronzong, empoleon and registeel and ultimately bronzong worked the best, but zong hardly filled heatran's role as Tran was my main switch in to common sun sweepers. I was even using Heatproof Bronzong which actually worked. Tho only time it hurt me to not have levitate was a few times when zong took spikes damage.
    2. How did you feel the challenge tested your metagame skill? Did it make playing much harder, or were you still able to leaderboard with relative ease.
    Playing around my team's fire weakness was very difficult especially in sun. I often had to sack a poke in order to get Abomasnow in without dying. One of the crushing defeats I had was against a Gen4 style sunny day team. (Gen4 style as in using heat rock and the move sunny day)
    Looking at my team you'll notice it has quite a few troublesome weaknesses, but I think my success on the ladder relied in part on the element of surprise my team has. I use Mandibuzz (MEHNDIbuzz) as a special wall and the average PS random playing OU will not know what to expect from an RU poke they've never seen in OU before. For example, many of my opponents switched their ferrothorn in to set up hazards only to be taunted and then lose ferrothorn's lefties to knock off (yes, I was actually using knock off).
    Also multiple times a heatran would lava plume or fire blast my bronzong expecting a KO, only to have it do half damage and be KOd themselves by bronzong's EQ.
    3. What is your opinion on how overpowered the Pokemon that you were not allowed to use, but were required to face? Were they too strong to deal with, are there metagame shifts you would consider to correct this? Please don't derail the thread with a constant debate over this point, only reply once you've won!
    The main things that gave me trouble were breloom and thundurus-t. Breloom is always tricky to deal with due to spore and subpunch, but skarmory and tentacruel help defend against him, and kyurem destroys breloom with blizzard if it's not behind a sub. Techniloom was dangerous as well but I used timid Tent in order to outspeed and KO with blizzard.
    Thundurus-T can sweep my entire team if it puts up a sub to prevent abomasnow from revenging with ice shard (also barring focus blast missing kyurem) as my team is rather electric weak. Abomasnow often ends up paralyzed from switching into thunders.
    4. What team style did you use, and how did it fare against the metagame? Were there team styles you couldn't beat? (As an aside, please share your team with an importable! It'll be fun to disect those, and you may even be featured in a Smog article!)
    I used a full stall Hail team with the deceptively bulky SubRoost Kyurem to pressure stall those troublesome high power moves that often come with a measley 8 pp, and also to blast things with its deadly Blizzard. It faired well against some rain teams as the rain makes it easier for tentacruel to spin hazards and set up Tspikes, and abomasnow beats any politoed without specs focus blast. My team had serious difficulties against sun teams since I couldn't use heatran. Voltturn also gave me trouble, especially if they had magnezone. Actually, almost any team with magnezone gives me serious trouble as I don't use shed shell on skarmory because of hail damage and without skarmory, all sorts of physical sweepers can destroy me. My team can generally deal with donphan and forretress easily and set up hazards once they're gone, but opposing starmie and tentacruel were a big pain as its pretty easy for then to spin away my hazards although starmie is destroyed by wood hammer. Abomasnow actually kills a lot of things with wood hammer in my matches because most of my opponents seem to expect blizzard spam over a physical abomasnow.
    5. What is your personal opinion on this challenge?
    I loved this challenge. I love to use uncommon pokemon on the ladder (I played 300+ OU battles with MEHNDIbuzz in August) and its nice to have some fresh battles without the usual OU faces. I could keep writing about my team and my laddering experience, but this post is getting a little long. Maybe I'll make an RMT of my original team eventually.
  15. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 11, 2011
    Ok, this seems fun :)

    Name: Hot N Cold
    Alt: Altagracia Loreal
    Ladder standing: None yet
  16. MysticNova


    Jul 3, 2012
    Name: MysticNova
    Alt: Memories
    Ladder standing: 1644
  17. erratic


    Aug 24, 2011
    Name: erratic
    Alt: halcyon
    Ladder standing: none yet
  18. Magma


    Apr 27, 2009
    Name: Magma
    Alt: Magmarizer
    Ladder standing: N/A
  19. chaos 9

    chaos 9

    Apr 19, 2007
    I'll Try this.

    Name: chaos 9
    Alt: Peace is Here
    Ladder standing: None yet!
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    Congrats to Lavos for starting this challenge with a bang!

    Shame on anyone who uses Sun, Deoxys-D, or a Baton Pass team to cruise through this challenge >:o Anybody found cheating using any of the banned 13 mons would be disqualified and infracted under bad sportsmanship.

    Name: Pocket
    Alt: PockOut
    Ladder standing: 1710
  21. Me So Shiny

    Me So Shiny

    Aug 14, 2012
    Name: Me So Shiny
    Alt: Gettin it
    Ladder Standing:
    1604 ( just ran out of bonus pool, gonna be slow rising from here)
    I have found that Salamence and Landorus are my best friends, I just have to get mamo and weavile out of the way first
  22. DarkBlazeR


    May 20, 2009
    Name: DarkBlazeR
    Alt: Perpetual Motion
    Ladder: N/A (new alt for the challenge)
  23. Asch


    Jun 6, 2007
    Name: Asch
    Alt: Flash Kick
    Ladder Standing: 0
  24. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jun 11, 2011
    Quick question: are we allowed to change the team while laddering, or are we required to create a new alt if (substantial) modifications are made to our team? Thanks!
  25. Harsha

    Harsha Rest in Beats
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 18, 2011
    Thanks for asking before doing so -- I forgot to include that in the OP. You need to start if you make substantial modifications to the original team, but if you're improving it by just switching out one Pokemon that makes the team more efficient or swapping moves, feel free to keep the same alt.

    Also congratulations to Lavos Spawn for winning the challenge within the first two days. We'll see if he can get past the 1950 barrier later!

    So how is everyone else faring? I've seen a lot of people in the upper 1700s, are there any specific difficulties you're facing? Part of the reason I decided to host this challenge now is that I wanted to see what ways people used to deal with Tornadus-T, considering Jirachi, arguably its best counter, is banned.

    edit: congrats Jobriq and senegal. To everyone else, please post again instead of editing so I actually see the post!
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