Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)

[honchkro13]

That's an interesting Volcarona set. It must be a nasty surprise when people expect the Quiver Dance set instead. I like the HP Rock suggestion--it'll give you better coverage and since you're going to be switching in and out anyways, you should have another Pokemon that can take on Heatran anyhow. Speaking of whom:





Porygon2 @Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 228 HP/88 Defense/180 Sp. Attack/12 Sp. Defense
Nature: Quiet
-Recover
-Hidden Power Fire
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

I honestly haven't played singles in a while because of VGC 2012, but when I did, I found this set to be surprisingly effective. Trace and BoltBeam allows Porygon2 to counter many major threats in the metagame such as Heatran but here's the real beauty of the set: HP Fire.

You're probably wondering why I'm using HP Fire as opposed to Thunderwave like many other standard Porygon2 do. I originally ran Thunderwave but found myself getting Taunted almost every time I tried to use it. I also found that people love switching in Ferrothorn, Scizor and Forretress every time they saw it, so normally I used HP Fire on the switch in and followed up next turn for a KO. I've actually been wondering whether I should deliberately make the HP Fire have a BP of 60 so that if it Traces Scizor's Technician, it'll do even more damage to Scizor but that's very situational.

The given EV spread is unusual, yes, since it's not purely defensive, but I've found that investing in Porygon2's Sp. Attack allows him to strike back and score major KO's for my team while sponging attacks thanks to Eviolite. This set also allows me to attack right through the predicted Taunts that Porygon2 always seem to attract. Heavily damaging the opponent with that fantastic coverage gives me room to use Recover when needed.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by Fat bubbly

Fresh from using it to get #3 on the PO ladder:
Keldeo @ Salac Berry
Timid, 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (actually there's probably a better spread to make Salac activate with one less Sub).

-Hydro Pump
-Secret Sword
-Substitute
-Calm Mind

THE best CM Keldeo (Specs Keldeo ftw too). I'm not sure if anybody else is using this but; things which outspeed and OHKO Keldeo are everywhere. Tornadus, Scarf Thundurus, Latios / Latias, Starmie and Scarf Landorus-T are all on top of the metagame right now, and all of them can easily revenge kill a +1 or even +2 Keldeo. With Salac you can simply Sub down into berry activation range, outspeed and KO. Substitute is also just a nice move to have on Keldeo to catch Therians switching in.

There are a few issues with this set, the most obvious being it struggles even more than other sets to get past Amoonguss, Jellicent, and Latias. The other is that it absolutely needs Rain support so that it can pull off a clean sweep. But the extra speed is absolutely fantastic and anyone who wants to use Keldeo but can't make it work should give this a go.

While this is very effective, CM Keldeo is the only Keldeo I ever see, so it is quite predictable, and Tornadus/Thundurus can Taunt it, then shut it down with STAB Hurricane, an easy OHKO when Keldeo has no SpD boosts.

Here is a set I enjoy using on rain teams:

Jellicent (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
Nature: Bold/Modest
-Water Spout
-Shadow Ball
-Ice Beam/Blizzard
-Giga Drain

Jellicent is known as a defensive Pokemon, yet with Choice Specs, Jellicent becomes an extremely potent attacker. With a boost from rain, Water Spout destroys non-resistant Pokemon, considering that, when at full health under rain, Water Spout has a base power of 456.25! Shadow Ball is the other STAB which is good when Jellicent is weakened. Giga Drain gives Recovery and destroys Gastrodon, but it is not as important. Ice Beam gives one last coverage move for the Therians, Gliscor, Breloom, Dragonite, and Chlorophyll abusers. If on a Hail team, Blizzard is better in this slot. The nature gives either more bulk or more power, and the EVs help to do this as well.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by Fat honchkro13

Porygon2 @Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 228 HP/88 Defense/180 Sp. Attack/12 Sp. Defense
Nature: Quiet
-Recover
-Hidden Power Fire
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

I honestly haven't played singles in a while because of VGC 2012, but when I did, I found this set to be surprisingly effective. Trace and BoltBeam allows Porygon2 to counter many major threats in the metagame such as Heatran but here's the real beauty of the set: HP Fire.

You're probably wondering why I'm using HP Fire as opposed to Thunderwave like many other standard Porygon2 do. I originally ran Thunderwave but found myself getting Taunted almost every time I tried to use it. I also found that people love switching in Ferrothorn, Scizor and Forretress every time they saw it, so normally I used HP Fire on the switch in and followed up next turn for a KO. I've actually been wondering whether I should deliberately make the HP Fire have a BP of 60 so that if it Traces Scizor's Technician, it'll do even more damage to Scizor but that's very situational.

The given EV spread is unusual, yes, since it's not purely defensive, but I've found that investing in Porygon2's Sp. Attack allows him to strike back and score major KO's for my team while sponging attacks thanks to Eviolite. This set also allows me to attack right through the predicted Taunts that Porygon2 always seem to attract. Heavily damaging the opponent with that fantastic coverage gives me room to use Recover when needed.

Using a BP of 60 on HP Fire to copy Technician is too situational, I would agree. My question is, what is with the 12 SpD EVs? Other than that, this is a great set. Plus it counters Thundurus-T very well, because it can switch into an Electric STAB and heal itself. There are many things you can do with Trace...

[Antihaxxer]

Switching on Heatran and absorbing Fire attacks pumps also HP Fire, so that could be very good !

[Electrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fat honchkro13

That's an interesting Volcarona set. It must be a nasty surprise when people expect the Quiver Dance set instead. I like the HP Rock suggestion--it'll give you better coverage and since you're going to be switching in and out anyways, you should have another Pokemon that can take on Heatran anyhow. Speaking of whom:





Porygon2 @Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 228 HP/88 Defense/180 Sp. Attack/12 Sp. Defense
Nature: Quiet
-Recover
-Hidden Power Fire
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

I honestly haven't played singles in a while because of VGC 2012, but when I did, I found this set to be surprisingly effective. Trace and BoltBeam allows Porygon2 to counter many major threats in the metagame such as Heatran but here's the real beauty of the set: HP Fire.

You're probably wondering why I'm using HP Fire as opposed to Thunderwave like many other standard Porygon2 do. I originally ran Thunderwave but found myself getting Taunted almost every time I tried to use it. I also found that people love switching in Ferrothorn, Scizor and Forretress every time they saw it, so normally I used HP Fire on the switch in and followed up next turn for a KO. I've actually been wondering whether I should deliberately make the HP Fire have a BP of 60 so that if it Traces Scizor's Technician, it'll do even more damage to Scizor but that's very situational.

The given EV spread is unusual, yes, since it's not purely defensive, but I've found that investing in Porygon2's Sp. Attack allows him to strike back and score major KO's for my team while sponging attacks thanks to Eviolite. This set also allows me to attack right through the predicted Taunts that Porygon2 always seem to attract. Heavily damaging the opponent with that fantastic coverage gives me room to use Recover when needed.

You're pretty right about HP fire, sure it does more to scizor but nothing to anything else and the loss of certain IV's make Porygon2 not as effective as it could be. I also question the Sp Def EV's, just put them in Sp Atk and you're good to go.
Also why Quiet? Wouldn't something like Modest or Timid work much better? Sure Porygon2 is slow but it still values its speed stat more than its attack stat.

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat Explorer

While this is very effective, CM Keldeo is the only Keldeo I ever see, so it is quite predictable, and Tornadus/Thundurus can Taunt it, then shut it down with STAB Hurricane, an easy OHKO when Keldeo has no SpD boosts.

Here is a set I enjoy using on rain teams:

Jellicent (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
Nature: Bold/Modest
-Water Spout
-Shadow Ball
-Ice Beam/Blizzard
-Giga Drain

Jellicent is known as a defensive Pokemon, yet with Choice Specs, Jellicent becomes an extremely potent attacker. With a boost from rain, Water Spout destroys non-resistant Pokemon, considering that, when at full health under rain, Water Spout has a base power of 456.25! Shadow Ball is the other STAB which is good when Jellicent is weakened. Giga Drain gives Recovery and destroys Gastrodon, but it is not as important. Ice Beam gives one last coverage move for the Therians, Gliscor, Breloom, Dragonite, and Chlorophyll abusers. If on a Hail team, Blizzard is better in this slot. The nature gives either more bulk or more power, and the EVs help to do this as well.

Yes you're totally right with your Jellicent set. That's why it's already on site. Please check the site for your set before posting it here in the future.

As for the Porygon2 set, I dunno it seems fairly solid to me. It gives you a way to deal with stuff like Ferrothorn and Forretress that might try to set up on you as well.

[preliator]

Originally Posted by Fat Buttobi

But blizzard is still much better. It is much more powerful and has 100% accuracy in hail. So why would you choose ice beam then?

Again: "PP"...

[Slim Slendy]

Originally Posted by Fat preliator

Again: "PP"...

I'm sorry, but if used correctly, PP should never be an issue. Blizzard hits MUCH harder than Ice Beam, and with 100% accuracy in hail, there's not an excuse to replace it.

Let's think about it this way; If PP was more important than power in this instance, why would anyone EVER elect to use Blizzard. There's a reason people favor Blizzard over Ice Beam on a hail team. The less PP isn't really all that important.

[MrVonic]

So I have a fairly obscure, and probably never before seen Ferrothorn. If this, or something like this has been posted already, I apologize ahead of time. But here's my curse tank Ferrothorn:

Ferrothorn @Leftovers
Ability: Ironbarbs
EVs: 252HP/8Def/248SpDef
Nature: Sassy
-Curse
-Power whip
-Gyro ball
-Leech seed/Spikes/Toxic

With this EV spread, and set, you can throw many people off. They won't expect Ferrothorn to use curse, and when it does, it becomes an amazing tank. With one curse boost, ferrothorn gets 450 def and 336 att. This ferrothorn can take huge hits from powerful physical, and special attackers once it sets up. Also, with the speed drop from curse, gyro ball has increased power on slower pokemon. The 2 attacks are there for ferrothorn to have it's 2 most power STABs. The last moveslot is up for grabs. Leech seed allows ferrothorn to survive longer, and rack up more residual damage. Toxic serves the same purpose, but doesn't give ferrothorn extra health back. Of course spikes is there, mostly because if ferrothorn does set up, he can easily get spikes on the field.

[Griff]

I can vouch for that Specs Jellicent. It works well and can catch ppl off guard if used correctly.
The thing is with Curse Ferro is that, you take a fighting hit, you live. You set up a curse, you die. IDK it's not really as good as Snorlax with it because no instant recovery.

[preliator]

Originally Posted by Fat Slim Slendy

I'm sorry, but if used correctly, PP should never be an issue. Blizzard hits MUCH harder than Ice Beam, and with 100% accuracy in hail, there's not an excuse to replace it.

Let's think about it this way; If PP was more important than power in this instance, why would anyone EVER elect to use Blizzard. There's a reason people favor Blizzard over Ice Beam on a hail team. The less PP isn't really all that important.

He wanted to use Blizzard on a more "defensive" Frosslass and Blizzard as its only attacking move wouldn't be that great in my opinion.
Also a weather summoner could easy switch into whatever that Frosslass packs... (Sub,Protect,Torment,Blizzard) and "wall" the hit...T-tar will wall, Toed will [he even laughts], Tales will laught as well... ahh I do not forget its ACC drop from 100 to 70...
If the weatherwar is won... and if your team really is able to win a weatherwar like 90% of the time, than Blizzard is useable...

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Fat preliator

He wanted to use Blizzard on a more "defensive" Frosslass and Blizzard as its only attacking move wouldn't be that great in my opinion.
Also a weather summoner could easy switch into whatever that Frosslass packs... (Sub,Protect,Torment,Blizzard) and "wall" the hit...T-tar will wall, Toed will [he even laughts], Tales will laught as well... ahh I do not forget its ACC drop from 100 to 70...
If the weatherwar is won... and if your team really is able to win a weatherwar like 90% of the time, than Blizzard is useable...

If he's running a sub torment set then imo theres really no reason not to run blizzard because even if he ends up missing a hit because the weather isn't going his way he can sub torment protect stall until he can try to hit another. The thing is your argument that the weather starters all shrug off a blizzard is true of ice beam as well. If you've revealed blizzard and its obvious enough you'll use it then you can either switch to a more favorable situation. Basically what I'm trying to say is that in practice blizzard is the better option but on paper ice beam potentially sounds more reliable.

[tehy]

Kiyo, but if he only has 8 blizzards, he will run out of PP quickly. Then, even a hippow can switch in for free, not to mention plenty of other stuff, and set up in his face.

I get it that you can just switch out if it's obvious that you will use it, but even good stallers need a way to inflict damage other than just sub torment stalling. Ice beam provides a more reliable way to chip away at things. If we go "It's unlikely that it will use all 8 blizzards", well of course-it's unlikely that set works well at all. But if we assume that it does, we need to give it ice beam, in the hopes that it will stall more.

Or we could just give it d-bond really.

[HabibsHotDogs]

I have been using this Moltres set in rain for a while to huge success. It's amazing how many threats Moltres can ohko (or 2hko) with hurricane + LO + SR damage.

Moltres @Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56Hp/252+SpAtk/200Spd
Nature: Modest
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast/Hidden Power [Fighting]
-Roost/Hidden Power [Fighting]

with the ev's at +2 you outspeed all common scarf carrying pokemon, you also hit an important 266 speed to outspeed various lower speed threats without a boost. The main advantages Moltres has over Volcarona is stab hurricane + consistant 1 turn +2 speed (tailwind is non-permanent but has its advantages) and better resits + natural defence. After a single turn you get a hurricane with the same effective BP as volcarona at +1 and you have more speed.

Really hurricane is the only attacking move you need.. it has a VERY good chance to ohko all Gyarados after SR (even rest talk) as well as dragonite etc. It's a solid ohko on the whole metagame (that doesn't resist it) after they have taken enough hazard damage making it a great late game sweeper.

The hard counters to this are electrics (specifically Rotom-w), some Gastrodon, Tyranitar, roar or toxic Heatran and dedicated special defensive wall Jirachi's (takes JUST under 50% from fire blast)... Ninetales loses 1 on 1 and allows Moltres to sweep with fire blast anyway.. most bulky waters take 60%+ meaning they only need some hurricane spam OR prior damage (which is very plausible.. considering they are supposed to check pokemon). HP fighting lets you deal with the most dangerous threat (Tyranitar) being a solid 2hko on most :) Rotom-W is often 2hkoed by hurricane anyway and Jirachi literally only JUST survives two fire blasts (Gastro takes about 50% with max special defence from hurricane making it a shaky counter)

edit: Forgot the blobs are hard counters... they can only be handled with toxic.. or incredible confusion hax

[SirNugget28]

would passing that rest cresselia eventually break sleep clause

[preliator]

Originally Posted by Fat Kiyo

If he's running a sub torment set then imo theres really no reason not to run blizzard because even if he ends up missing a hit because the weather isn't going his way he can sub torment protect stall until he can try to hit another. The thing is your argument that the weather starters all shrug off a blizzard is true of ice beam as well. If you've revealed blizzard and its obvious enough you'll use it then you can either switch to a more favorable situation. Basically what I'm trying to say is that in practice blizzard is the better option but on paper ice beam potentially sounds more reliable.

Thats exactly what I was trying to tell, Ice Beam is More reliable.

And I also totally aggree with tehy.

[bubbly]

Originally Posted by Fat Explorer

While this is very effective, CM Keldeo is the only Keldeo I ever see, so it is quite predictable, and Tornadus/Thundurus can Taunt it, then shut it down with STAB Hurricane, an easy OHKO when Keldeo has no SpD boosts.

I'm guessing you didn't read the set at all? The point is the Salac Berry; if it's facing Tornadus or Scarf Thundurus it can easily get the speed boost from the berry and KO with Hydro Pump (or, if it's 1v1 and you don't need the extra speed for an extended sweep, you can just attack straight away from behind your Sub).

[Cuban Vader]

Bit of an odd phazing duo I've been having luck with lately, team was initially made as a stupid gimmick team but it's winning about 80% of my battles


Jirachi @ Red Card
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 32 Spd / 160 Def / 76 SDef
Impish Nature
- Recycle
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Wish

Mew @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Calm Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Taunt
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss

I'll admit, it looks gimmicky as hell, but with sand, Spikes and Stealth Rock it can quickly weaken teams. The Jiarchi set revolves around parashuffling. Once you paralyze with Body Slam use Wish if needed and Recycle when you get a chance to get the Red Card back. The Mew set is more of a traditional phazer, but on a odd poke. In all honesty I rarely use anything other than Dragon Tail and Softboiled so I'm open to suggestions for the other 2 moves. With the right support this duo can easily weaken teams for a sweeper to come in and clean up.

[2sly4u]

Originally Posted by Fat Cuban Vader

Bit of an odd phazing duo I've been having luck with lately, team was initially made as a stupid gimmick team but it's winning about 80% of my battles


Jirachi @ Red Card
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 32 Spd / 160 Def / 76 SDef
Impish Nature
- Recycle
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Wish

Mew @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Calm Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Taunt
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss

I'll admit, it looks gimmicky as hell, but with sand, Spikes and Stealth Rock it can quickly weaken teams. The Jiarchi set revolves around parashuffling. Once you paralyze with Body Slam use Wish if needed and Recycle when you get a chance to get the Red Card back. The Mew set is more of a traditional phazer, but on a odd poke. In all honesty I rarely use anything other than Dragon Tail and Softboiled so I'm open to suggestions for the other 2 moves. With the right support this duo can easily weaken teams for a sweeper to come in and clean up.

Mew should probably run Roar instead of Dragon Tail so it can get past Substitute. Taunt lets it shut down other Taunters, and Dragon Tail won't do much damage anyways.

[Cuban Vader]

Originally Posted by Fat 2sly4u

Mew should probably run Roar instead of Dragon Tail so it can get past Substitute. Taunt lets it shut down other Taunters, and Dragon Tail won't do much damage anyways.

Good point is good. Any suggestions to run over Seismic Toss?

[Mister Tak]

Durant (M) @ Wide Lens / Life Orb
Trait: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Hone Claws
- Superpower
- Iron Head

this thing is a very destructive machine.
double (or triple with hone claw) booster who can hit very well a lot of threat with also the support of hustle who power up his atk.
wide lens like a counter of the negative effect of hustle, but with hone claw it can be useless (unless you change the moveset with a move with lower accuracy), so you can easily use life orb too.
the problems of this set are thundurus (who can be banned early i hope), zapdos, gyarados and volcarona, but they take a lot of damage

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Fat Mister Tak

Durant (M) @ Wide Lens / Life Orb
Trait: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Hone Claws
- Superpower
- Iron Head

this thing is a very destructive machine.
double (or triple with hone claw) booster who can hit very well a lot of threat with also the support of hustle who power up his atk.
wide lens like a counter of the negative effect of hustle, but with hone claw it can be useless (unless you change the moveset with a move with lower accuracy), so you can easily use life orb too.
the problems of this set are thundurus (who can be banned early i hope), zapdos, gyarados and volcarona, but they take a lot of damage

I don't think that this set is too creative since the only reason it differs from the one on-site here: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/durant/ou is agility.

[FrostFire]

Well, I've been toying around with the idea of a Choice Specs Jirachi recently, after I looked at a gen 4 analysis, and I was wondering what other people thought about it in gen 5. The on site analysis goes:


Jirachi @Choice Specs
Serene Grace
Modest - 224HP/ 252Sp. Atk/ 32 Spe
-Doom Desire
-Thunderbolt
-Psychic
-Trick

It's kind of interesting. Firstly, Doom Desire which is rarely used competively, is intriguing, though it's mechanics have changed since gen 4. Basically, DD is a 140 base power 100% accurate special Steel attack that strikes two turns after use, even once you switch out. Kind of cool, because if you switch rachi out, and force a switch with something else, then your opponent may well have to sac something when faced with a specs DD on top of the attack you choose that turn. Thunderbolt allows Jirachi to hit water types and alongside a reliable STAB psychic, provides relatively good coverage. Lastly, Trick cripples wally stuff as usual.

It's pretty unexpected and can work pretty well, but I was wondering if it's a bit gimmicky? Has anyone else tried a Specs set?

EDIT: Over a year on Smogon, and I've reached my 50th post. Woooo! :D

[preliator]

Originally Posted by Fat FrostFire

Well, I've been toying around with the idea of a Choice Specs Jirachi recently, after I looked at a gen 4 analysis, and I was wondering what other people thought about it in gen 5. The on site analysis goes:


Jirachi @Choice Specs
Serene Grace
Modest - 224HP/ 252Sp. Atk/ 32 Spe
-Doom Desire
-Thunderbolt
-Psychic
-Trick

It's kind of interesting. Firstly, Doom Desire which is rarely used competively, is intriguing, though it's mechanics have changed since gen 4. Basically, DD is a 140 base power 100% accurate special Steel attack that strikes two turns after use, even once you switch out. Kind of cool, because if you switch rachi out, and force a switch with something else, then your opponent may well have to sac something when faced with a specs DD on top of the attack you choose that turn. Thunderbolt allows Jirachi to hit water types and alongside a reliable STAB psychic, provides relatively good coverage. Lastly, Trick cripples wally stuff as usual.

It's pretty unexpected and can work pretty well, but I was wondering if it's a bit gimmicky? Has anyone else tried a Specs set?

EDIT: Over a year on Smogon, and I've reached my 50th post. Woooo! :D

Now thats a set that I call interesting...
I'll use and test it! Sounds like alot of fun :D

Edit: Doom Desire hits like a truck even if resisted!

Testing this baby atm on PO and PS.



I think I'll have hell of alot more fun with this :P

[The Reptile]

Originally Posted by Fat FrostFire

Well, I've been toying around with the idea of a Choice Specs Jirachi recently, after I looked at a gen 4 analysis, and I was wondering what other people thought about it in gen 5. The on site analysis goes:


Jirachi @Choice Specs
Serene Grace
Modest - 224HP/ 252Sp. Atk/ 32 Spe
-Doom Desire
-Thunderbolt
-Psychic
-Trick

It's kind of interesting. Firstly, Doom Desire which is rarely used competively, is intriguing, though it's mechanics have changed since gen 4. Basically, DD is a 140 base power 100% accurate special Steel attack that strikes two turns after use, even once you switch out. Kind of cool, because if you switch rachi out, and force a switch with something else, then your opponent may well have to sac something when faced with a specs DD on top of the attack you choose that turn. Thunderbolt allows Jirachi to hit water types and alongside a reliable STAB psychic, provides relatively good coverage. Lastly, Trick cripples wally stuff as usual.

It's pretty unexpected and can work pretty well, but I was wondering if it's a bit gimmicky? Has anyone else tried a Specs set?

EDIT: Over a year on Smogon, and I've reached my 50th post. Woooo! :D

I haven't used either Specs Rachi or Super Rachi, but I would assume Super Rachi (Offensive Calm Mind) works better than Specs Rachi just because it can switch up moves and potentially get multiple boosts. Something like Calm Mind / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon | Hidden Power Fire could potentially be better.

Again, I haven't used either of the Jirachi's so I'm pretty much theorymoning here.