Big 2official2mafia - POSTGAME

[UncleSam]

Funny I had no problem dealing with Haruno you just have to tune out his bullshit

Then again I'm not sure why after explicitly saying 'Haruno's role makes no sense and he's being nonsensical about not claiming he's almost certainly Aquanaut' anyone on my team was listening to you like ???

Why would he A. not claim alias B. not target who we ask ever C. not claim role for forever D. not have a vote-based role

If he were Stars

zZz

 

[Yeti]

I actually don't know why the Electros WC was that and they didn't even know how they won... I didn't know von was going to do that (I cbf to write role PMs after I did my village role PMs so the mafias all got skimped and I never saw theirs) and wouldn't have done it myself. game had flaws.

 

[kirsche]

Oh yeah big shout outs to my teammates who all tried their best given the circumstances.

Electros should get a pity banner imo ;)

 

[Haruno]

Funny I had no problem dealing with Haruno you just have to tune out his bullshit

Then again I'm not sure why after explicitly saying 'Haruno's role makes no sense and he's being nonsensical about not claiming he's almost certainly Aquanaut' anyone on my team was listening to you like ???

Why would he A. not claim alias B. not target who we ask ever C. not claim role for forever D. not have a vote-based role

If he were Stars

zZz

If sam was not a mole stars would not have gotten fucked as hard as they did was what I said. They also were incredibly worried since they had no idea either would step up if you died and thought it was due to moling capabilities. Also how do you feel about sam literally telling you jack shit while you just blindly follow orders?

That was the gist of what I told them iirc. It didn't help that literally every other faction was calling you a mole which made it easier

Edit: I would've said I was scared after weeb mafia if you really pushed for my alias more than you did tbh

 

[Ampharos]

sam i'm glad my coaching of drawesome worked out ;)

 

[Former]

This was fairly fun. First multifaction game like this and with Oddish and I being that new we both certainly had misplays. Though to clear a few things up, Oddish and I knew/suspected Haruno was a mole for quite a few cycles in advance and hence moved most of our discussion elsewhere. Also Josh sorry to burst your bubble but you didn't convince us lynching aqua was better. The only thing we actually thought from that was that we could win with you in the first place Then Oddish and I had a fun discussion in which we thought we could win with magma's/josh or aqua's and decided we didn't like a random post of twins and so we decided to lynch aqua.

 

[Lrr]

I would like to add fuck Pidge for randomly claiming Sand King and make Light Wolf not trust me when he already thought I was an ELECTROS because my role was similar to Memoric/Archer's

cmon dude

 

[Empoof]

If I had more time for this game maybe having the single worst role to hardclaim would've been easier

 

[Empoof]

Gg though had fun talking about aquatic animals with you all, even if my croc went 0 places

 

[King_]

I'm kind of salty and I blame myself for not being involved and trusting my sand members to do a good job

 

[vonFiedler]

Game is called, Magmas win.

So like, I REALLY am having trouble finding me time lately. I can't promise that I'll do this justice even tomorrow. So how about we compromise and I try to make get Postgame up on Saturday?

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Better than most, man.

I skimmed over all this discussion but I just gotta say it's hard to expect the villagers to lynch wolves on the spot. Like, that's not what wolves are for. They're a BALANCING mechanic - you can count on wolves to kill the stronger factions for you in a pinch and stuff. No one expects them to steal the game. Because they're wolves, and especially vanilla wolves are supposed to have the hardest wincon in the game.

What I'm saying is "lynch all wolves immediately" shouldn't be meta and isn't even a good idea.

EDIT: bonus insight

Multifaction games are hard to get invested into. It's usually the one guy running your faction and everyone else just hanging out at best and forgetting about the game at worst. No actually "at worst" is people like Pidge who wanted to be involved but couldn't. Anyway, what I'm saying is, multifaction, man.

 

[vonFiedler]

I mean, yes, but wolves usually get lynched halfway through the game. I've made tons of interesting wolves who never got a shot because even a little less than the halfway point the village turns on them. And I can't say that was ever the wrong move really, even though it disheartened me at the time.

By cycle 6, every cycle was a big question of "aren't they going to do it now?!", and no, they weren't. Even on cycle 9 they could have turned things around and anyone but Aquanauts had a chance of winning. But 2 factions and dogfish chose to support agape. And that was game.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I mean, yes, but wolves usually get lynched halfway through the game. I've made tons of interesting wolves who never got a shot because even a little less than the halfway point the village turns on them. And I can't say that was ever the wrong move really, even though it disheartened me at the time.

By cycle 6, every cycle was a big question of "aren't they going to do it now?!", and no, they weren't. Even on cycle 9 they could have turned things around and anyone but Aquanauts had a chance of winning. But 2 factions and dogfish chose to support agape. And that was game.

Tbh it's interesting, I wold bring up the possibility of getting rid of agape/Walrein on occasion, especially when we were in the lead, and it was just kind of brushed off as something that's gonna happen but soontm (okay actually I don't remember, Acid can you confirm/deny?)

 

[JALMONT]

discord chat tldr:

everyone who isn't magmas: magma veil is fucking stupid and how were magmas expected to lose

magmas: no it isn't what are you talking about it doesn't matter that 100% of players didn't notice and that the numbers made sense either way until very late game (except for atars probably but this is the least of stars fucking up)

Probably because every-non MAGMA player isn't biased and doesn't have a need to blame game mechanics for our mistakes. Sounds more like people are taking the easy route and blaming the obvious instead of looking at how they could play better.

I don't disagree with Paperblade in that I'm not a big fan of anonymous factions or things kept hidden from players. In fact Paperblade probably gets everything right when he talks about the inherent advantage that MAGMAs have. But to act like this game was a complete wash and failure is very extreme when most other factions did not play very well at all lol. In any case I do really dislike moles and basically any sort of lying to players by the host. But to say that "lul magmas won because of magma veil so op" like come on lol every faction made some very elementary mistakes which happen. Look at the mistakes you made instead of just blaming everyone else for losing.

The MAGS were an all or nothing faction (which as pblade points out is maybe not great) but I truly believe things just really happened to go our way and that alongside strong negotiation by Agape/Walrein (early)/Josh(late) won us the game. The strength of our faction was our stealth element, and we used it to our advantage. Whether or not a faction that is useless when discovered is actually a balanced faction is a different discussion. It's probably not ideal for "competitiveness" or whatever you want to call out, but it's not as if we were handed the game from the start. i think there's probably an equal probability that things go wrong for us, we lose a couple early/roles get found out and we become useless.

I'm still not sure why everyone is telling me the ELECTROS played the best but that's because I wasn't really involved with them so interested in hearing that. I think if anything the ELECTROS could've been buffed. They should've been the only DESPERATION team and the only team that could win with another village faction. That probably would've helped things immensely imo. I would say out of all factions things were hardest for them not to mention they got most of the bad luck itg. But the fact that everyone decided it was a good idea to eliminate them isn't the MAGMAs fault. It's the people who decided to agree to off them's fault.

This game is exactly what you get with multifactions. I think it's okay not to like multifactions, but I'm not sure what people expected? Multifactions are highly variable and prone to luck which is surprise surprise, what happened! We got incredibly lucky the Walrein got resurrected. We got lucky that no one decided to rand me or inspect drawesome or whatever. Mafia is luck. Multifactions are very hard to get right and you can just look at the game listing to get proof of that. This game wasn't a failure and acting like it was and blaming von for w/e is a major overreaction.

e: "biased" in the sense that we have a tad more objective viewpoint of the game given that we were more informed than most. biased prob isn't a good word to use there since i guess we are also biased in that we weren't the ones having to guess at looking for another faction. so maybe "isn't emotional" is a better way of putting it

 

[Lrr]

I wasn't trying to take anything away from the winners for the record. I wasn't trusted by my faction so I basically did nothing this game and thus can't really comment on who did or didn't play well

 

[JALMONT]

My sense was that people were mad at magma veil because it was too strong not necessarily that MAGMAs didn't play well or anything. I just think the blaming of magma veil is a little over the top.

 

[Empoof]

My sense was that people were mad at magma veil because it was too strong not necessarily that MAGMAs didn't play well or anything. I just think the blaming of magma veil is a little over the top.

They should be like me tbh
I don't even know what the magma faction is

FeelsGoodMan

 

[MoodyCloud]

Props to Kirsche for putting in work and giving us the one card we could play, good job man

 

[OM]

Tbf, Josh played like an actual god for a magma mole

 

[LightWolf]

Funnily I'm not really pissed that our kills would fail on MAGMAs we inspected early, and we'd need late game inspectors to be alive to have any chance ever offing them, that is par for the course.

As a SANDS I can't help but pity the ELECTROS immensely, being the hidden faction of the game completely outclassed by a better hidden faction. I care far less about being ineffective vs magmas than a faction that is in the long run pointless compared to another. Sorry for killin Archer, I thought it was Pblade.


As for Leadership decisions. I knew from my role PM that Desperation was a thing(though I think it was implying the mechanic a bit differently than it worked). As claims came in it became obvious we had no means to win on our own, so I went in with despair in mind, preferably with STARS which is why I was ok with them dying early at every turn. I however didn't expect the hidden faction could despair, so when ELECTROS did that plan fell through, as STARS were p much set to go next at that point, which is why I welcomed that huge overkill on them afterwards.

Also one of Josh and Pidge was never a one is SANDS kind of deal, what with Pidge and Pblade claiming the role name. I never trusted Josh, his behavior was completely anti SANDS at every turn, and I voiced the fact I'd never add him to the sheet unless everyone was dead. I blame myself for probably misunderstanding a lot of what TIK said, which made me peg him as some neutral, and it was unlucky that he got Dogged(though I approve of walrein going through with that).

I think the biggest mistake after a frankly GREAT anti MAGMA start we had(one was public, another one was in an alias MUDS knew), was letting them get away with too many failed kills and never questioning the flavour. The whole melting thing should have been kinda obvious in hindsight, but after ELECTROS I don't think many expected another hidden faction, and tensions were mainly between the villages and aquas which removed the chance of such mass communication ever happening.

Also UncleSam was the really an Anti SANDS Alliance convo, or was Agape yanking my chains? Also sorry for any criticism I had of yours.

 

[Agape]

I still want an explanation for the why Magmas wiped out the Electros first aka the downright easiest team for them to win with and help them win. Brain damaged team. Like I actually think the Magmas are idiots based off that.

I thought the electros were the ones redirecting my kill, not aquas. I also read moody as the most hostile faction leader towards us, ergo the least under my control. My goal in electro persecution was to deal with their redirector and eliminate the active players from their faction. The Bones lynch was me trying desperatedly to get the lynch off myself.

 

[acidphoenix]

Funnily I'm not really pissed that our kills would fail on MAGMAs we inspected early, and we'd need late game inspectors to be alive to have any chance ever offing them, that is par for the course.

As a SANDS I can't help but pity the ELECTROS immensely, being the hidden faction of the game completely outclassed by a better hidden faction. I care far less about being ineffective vs magmas than a faction that is in the long run pointless compared to another. Sorry for killin Archer, I thought it was Pblade.


As for Leadership decisions. I knew from my role PM that Desperation was a thing(though I think it was implying the mechanic a bit differently than it worked). As claims came in it became obvious we had no means to win on our own, so I went in with despair in mind, preferably with STARS which is why I was ok with them dying early at every turn. I however didn't expect the hidden faction could despair, so when ELECTROS did that plan fell through, as STARS were p much set to go next at that point, which is why I welcomed that huge overkill on them afterwards.

Also one of Josh and Pidge was never a one is SANDS kind of deal, what with Pidge and Pblade claiming the role name. I never trusted Josh, his behavior was completely anti SANDS at every turn, and I voiced the fact I'd never add him to the sheet unless everyone was dead. I blame myself for probably misunderstanding a lot of what TIK said, which made me peg him as some neutral, and it was unlucky that he got Dogged(though I approve of walrein going through with that).

I think the biggest mistake after a frankly GREAT anti MAGMA start we had(one was public, another one was in an alias MUDS knew), was letting them get away with too many failed kills and never questioning the flavour. The whole melting thing should have been kinda obvious in hindsight, but after ELECTROS I don't think many expected another hidden faction, and tensions were mainly between the villages and aquas which removed the chance of such mass communication ever happening.

Also UncleSam was the really an Anti SANDS Alliance convo, or was Agape yanking my chains? Also sorry for any criticism I had of yours.

convo was real but it was anti aqua too

also Sam made it and I saw no reason to contradict him so I just went with it and then also talked to you

idk why Sam put agape and walrein in the convo tbh

 

[kirsche]

Tbh it's interesting, I wold bring up the possibility of getting rid of agape/Walrein on occasion, especially when we were in the lead, and it was just kind of brushed off as something that's gonna happen but soontm (okay actually I don't remember, Acid can you confirm/deny?)

I brought it up like every cycle in our chat and was shut down everytime with "nah Agape isn't like moody bidoof letting him influence us will have no consequences ever". Unfortunately without a kill electros had no way of getting rid of acid so I could lead MUDS to victory with my team (my first act as MUDS leader was gonna be kill Agape/Walrein).

Balancing mechanics are great and all but when you're the strongest village faction itg and supposedly allied with aquanauts (?) it's time to get rid of them so you don't end up being balanced yourself. Also not trusting wolves and letting them dictate lynches is always legit even if wasting shots on them isn't.

 

[Josh]

Funnily I'm not really pissed that our kills would fail on MAGMAs we inspected early, and we'd need late game inspectors to be alive to have any chance ever offing them, that is par for the course.

As a SANDS I can't help but pity the ELECTROS immensely, being the hidden faction of the game completely outclassed by a better hidden faction. I care far less about being ineffective vs magmas than a faction that is in the long run pointless compared to another. Sorry for killin Archer, I thought it was Pblade.


As for Leadership decisions. I knew from my role PM that Desperation was a thing(though I think it was implying the mechanic a bit differently than it worked). As claims came in it became obvious we had no means to win on our own, so I went in with despair in mind, preferably with STARS which is why I was ok with them dying early at every turn. I however didn't expect the hidden faction could despair, so when ELECTROS did that plan fell through, as STARS were p much set to go next at that point, which is why I welcomed that huge overkill on them afterwards.

Also one of Josh and Pidge was never a one is SANDS kind of deal, what with Pidge and Pblade claiming the role name. I never trusted Josh, his behavior was completely anti SANDS at every turn, and I voiced the fact I'd never add him to the sheet unless everyone was dead. I blame myself for probably misunderstanding a lot of what TIK said, which made me peg him as some neutral, and it was unlucky that he got Dogged(though I approve of walrein going through with that).

I think the biggest mistake after a frankly GREAT anti MAGMA start we had(one was public, another one was in an alias MUDS knew), was letting them get away with too many failed kills and never questioning the flavour. The whole melting thing should have been kinda obvious in hindsight, but after ELECTROS I don't think many expected another hidden faction, and tensions were mainly between the villages and aquas which removed the chance of such mass communication ever happening.

Also UncleSam was the really an Anti SANDS Alliance convo, or was Agape yanking my chains? Also sorry for any criticism I had of yours.

My anti sands play was due to noobiness, not being magmas. I needed some kind of time to adapt to oc as this was my first game. You dying was excellent for me because I could restart with pancake. I definitely did screw up with you at the beginning, and someone idr in my faction told me I fucked up, it was a learning experience.