Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
I have a question about using Pursuit in doubles/triples
VS.
Let's say Krookodile in the middle there uses Pursuit. If it targets Aron at the same time that I switch out Camerupt, does Pursuit switch targets and hit Camerupt instead or is the AI just reading the hell out of my inputs? Krookodile4 has been kind of a pain in situations like these where Slowbro gets flinched turn 1 and I don't want Camerupt to eat an Earthquake.
Possibly switches targets:
- Interested in this question, and luckily stumbling upon an instance of Center lead Krookodile4 on my current streak, I decided to test this out. I won Battle #301 of said streak, saved the replay, and subsequently tried out several lead trios during Mock Battle to elicit Pursuit out of him
- I eventually got a hit by utilizing Virizion/Hoopa/Flygon. Having Center lead Hoopa basically guaranteed Pursuit usage, so I tested various Turn 1 scenarios to see what would happen:
Double switch with Virizion & Flygon, Hoopa Protect: Pursuit hits Flygon (note: this Flygon outpseeds this Virizion by seven points)
Switch with Virizion, Double Protect with Hoopa & Flygon: Pursuit hits Virizion
All leads attack: Pursuit hits and OHKOs Hoopa
Switch with Virizion, Hoopa and Flygon attack: Pursuit hits Virizion (note: this was done twice to be sure)
Switch with Flygon, Virizion and Hoopa attack: Pursuit hits Flygon
So, it could be tracking switches. I will share this replay after I get home tonight so that others may test it out.
EDIT: Battle #301, vs. Delaney (Delphox/Krookodile/Absol/Nidoking/Bisharp/Blaziken) (Set 4)--just another day at the office for Something About Debrief PST Z5UG-WWWW-WW4V-7LBY
Hey everyone, I decided to do something a little different.
This is a streak of only 50 wins currently (basically up through the Chatelaine)- however, the difference is I did the run completely blindfolded.
I used the team from here, with a few changes, detailed below:
Fletchling and Blastoise remained unchanged.
---------------------------------------------
Ludicolo was swapped out for:
Once again, I can't remember what the EVs were for, but I do know they held some sort of purpose. A 31 Speed IV, a non-hindering nature and 12 Speed EVs allowed Gastrodon to outspeed a surprising number of Pokemon under Tailwind (reaching 122 Speed, outpacing things all the way up into the Base 80s), while also still being slow as dirt for Trick Room.
Gastrodon still was probably the weakest member of the team, but he was far better than Ludicolo and still played a critical (albeit highly specific) role- he was the best answer I had to Water Absorb Vaporeon and Suicune (who both loved to freeze things with Blizzard, and be annoying with other spread moves like Surf and Icy Wind). He also served as a reliable Thunder switch-in and made the AI paranoid about using Water-type moves (so no Surf, Muddy Water, Aqua Jet, etc.), and had great coverage. Obviously, I had to be ultra-careful about how I used him because of how easily he was dispatched by stray Energy Balls and the like, but he actually came through for me big time on many occasions. Leftovers is really good on this team because all the Protecting and free turns has a way of racking up recovery really quickly, and Gastrodon is a good fit for it (Dragonite needed Lum, Blastoise needs its Mega Stone, Gastrodon likes having all 3 coverage moves and as such doesn't really have room for Recover).
---------------------------------------------
I was a bit stuck when it came to Dragonite. It needed both Roost and Lum in order to perform its role(s) (one time status absorber; emergency switch-in to Thunders and strong Grass moves, general "Blastoise/Gastrodon can't handle this"/"the AI probably can't do too much to this" utility mon) optimally. It needed Protect because otherwise it would get double targetted and die (when Fletchling comes down). It needed some way to boost its Attack (to make certain defense-boosting and Intimidate-heavy matchups winnable). As an attacker, it needed coverage and a strong STAB. With two slots already taken, and Power-Up Punch being about as close as you can get to combining coverage and set-up into one slot, that left me with Dragon Claw as my STAB.
However, carrying Dragon Claw worsened many already bad matchups this team had, and created many neutral matchups that would otherwise have been good matchups had I had room for, say, Fire Punch. Worse, having only Dragon Claw and Power-Up Punch as attacks made Dragonite utterly useless against Fairies, who were among some of the teams most difficult matchups already (they generally like spamming Dazzling Gleam and throwing out random Grass moves at my two Water-types after they have been weakened, as well as having obnoxious special bulk). Dragon as a STAB is complete ass in gen 6, and there just wasn't any way around it.
So, I caved. I fired up my Aerial Ace TM for the first (and probably last) time, facing into the headwind of the inevitable mockery I would receive for doing so, and replaced Dragon Claw.
And, you know what?
It did alright. Actually, it did more than alright. It performed beyond my wildest expectations. Let me explain.
With Aerial Ace, Dragonite suddenly becomes a great counter for Grass-types, as it ought to have been originally- no longer does it need to Power-Up Punch once (or even multiple times) to have a chance at KOing that annoying Effect Spore Vileplume, praying that it doesn't Stun Spore Dragonite's Lum away and then stick Dragonite with a Sleep that causes it to get KOed by not waking up in time to Protect. Instead, Dragonite can just toss out an Aerial Ace, have any chance of triggering Effect Spore nulled by its still-intact Lum Berry, and proceed to sweep the rest of the team (likely comprised of other Grass-types).
Suddenly, the team now has a much better answer to Asshole Cresselia (the Toxic + Double Team one), simply Power-Up Punching whatever it can until Cresselia gets around to Toxic-ing away its Lum Berry, after which Dragonite is more than happy to Aerial Ace right through any evasion boosts it might have picked up. The Dragon Claw-packing alternative, by comparison, simply missed to death, leading the rest of the team to a similar fate. Packing Aerial Ace even allows a full-health Dragonite to become a pretty decent switch-in to a Sylveon or a Florges that has eaten a Water Spout, easily tanking one Dazzling Gleam thanks to Multiscale and finishing off the offending Fairy with a physical STAB that can actually hit them.
These are but a few of the many great things Aerial Ace did for this team, and I won't be going back.
I know there's no categories for this sort of thing currently, but I thought it would be a cool and interesting challenge and it was a lot of fun.
If you're interested in how I did it, I posted a bunch of info in the description of the video. I also intend to get the rest of the Maison trophies blindfolded as well- I might even create a real streak with this team too, if I can get around to it before Sun/Moon comes out.
As I anticipated, this team's biggest foe eventually brought it down...
Battle #424: vs. Gwen (Wailord/Accelgor/Escavalier/Krookodile/Yanmega/Milotic) (Set 4)--In addition to lead Escavalier4 rearing its ugly head, I make a crucial error and replace the fallen Hypno with Megarupt instead of Exeggutor as I should have done. The rest of the battle is kind of an inevitability, and though I actually make a comeback, the subsequent opposing backups are well-suited to finishing me off. Amusingly, Accelgor/Escavalier (two 'mons so closely linked) and Krookodile4 (the subject of some recent discussion) contribute to the loss, and accordingly, the latter did the least amount of damage. BJ4G-WWWW-WW5W-8SHY
This team got a lot farther than I thought it would, so I'm estatic with this streak. Though I attribute the idea of this team to MasterUphaze , he himself simply adopted and tweaked an idea from Pikiwyn , so I'm very happy with the fact that this streak ends up slightly behind the latter's version of the concept. It's too bad that -Snorlax- , Fencas , and turskain all have streaks in between mine and his, denying me the opportunity to make this streak's placement even more appropriate (thanks a lot, ya goofs).
I wish I could say this gets the Maison out of my system and I can focus on newer, shinier things that are on the way...and yet, here I am preparing a copy of my Battle #381 to take on a fun run (Exeggutor/Glaceon/Lickilicky/Accelgor/Flareon/Gyarados) (Set 4)...the Maisoning experience will never truly end for me until SM come out, I suspect. Besides, my Imperfect Army still has plenty of room to grow, so there is that to keep working on in the meantime.
A separate note to all Doubles/Triples/Multis folks: I would take the time to have something, anything ready to deal with Krookodile4 (while we're kinda on the subject). The recent discussion reminded me that it can appear on 35 of the 100 post-Dana trainers' rosters...that's plenty of opportunities for it to fuck you over with untimely boosted Pursuits or Rock Slide flinches. It might seem silly for someone with six weaknesses to be considered that much of a threat, but its appearance rate, varied offensive coverage, and
abilities make it at least a minor concern.
This post seems a bit dry right now, so to spice things up a bit, replays! (These will be a bit more truncated than usual, I'm feeling kinda lazy.)
Battle #106: Lead Snow Warning Abomasnow2 contributed to the end of my 538-win streak. This was my first chance at revenge against it and Cobb since then. FNSW-WWWW-WW5W-9C9G
Battle#200: Typical Starf Battle, presented mainly as a demonstration of the team at work, also because the opposing leads and one of the backups are all fairly tricky for this team to deal with in a vacuum, though they weren't too tough this time around. EJAG-WWWW-WW5W-9CQF
Battle #246: After the success that the Slowthings4 brought me when I paired them up for Unova Classic, I strove to save every battle featuring both of them. This one is shared because it came not from a Psychic/Hex Maniac, but from a Ranger. Interesting, I think. 7V4G-WWWW-WW5W-9D46
Battle #277: One of my most explosive battles to date. JXUG-WWWW-WW5W-9DDV
Battle #283: Typical Jensen battle, I've come to love fighting this guy. 9M6W-WWWW-WW5W-9DMP
Battle #300: My first encounter with Escavalier4 during this streak. The bastard actually faked me out, as I was expecting it to take Hypno out Turn 1, so I went on the attack to take it out before setting TR up, but he went and attacked Aron, flinching him with Iron Head. I figure "oh, he's acting normally, I can set up TR now!" So of course, he acts like the bastard he is on Turn 2, and I have to fight back from there. GFRW-WWWW-WW5W-9DSV
Battle #348: My most recent encounter with the Aron Killer, a.k.a. post-Dana Greninja3. 28DG-WWWW-WW5W-9ECX
Battle #373: My most recent encounter with the pair I've dubbed Infinity Judge (Bastiodon4/Mienshao4). 9KGG-WWWW-WW5W-9F3C
Battle #380: My most recent encounter with the Set 4 Water/Ice trainers (or as I want to call them, Cool Glasses Of Water). This is a MonoWater variant, as it turns out, always fun. ZQTG-WWWW-WW5W-9F5A
Enjoy. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to teambuild around Aerodactyl1...
Reporting a streak of 130 wins in Super Rotations.
CB Rock Head Head Smash Tyrantrum > my life. I was counterplayed nearly every turn so I knew it was over when I saw Chandy.
Team has otherwise been unbreakable so far; Sunny Day + Weather Ball Victreebel is a bitch but its rare and easy to smash into on the Sunny Day setup.
Leading trio of Vaporeon / Ferrothorn / Altaria is horrifically good defensive synergy, and decent offensively (Grass/Poison walls you. Hard).
Altaria abuses obnoxious typing, usually baiting a Dragon Pulse, to set up a DD, and slams into your foes with mono Fairy coverage.
Perish Song decisively and quickly ends Minimize shitfests, nasty threats, SubSeed stall, etc. Good suicide move.
Ferrothorn spams Leech Seed, crushes Fairies, Victreebel, Vileplume, and Gengar, while biting into bulky Waters and baiting Fire moves. Altaria covers its Fire/Fighting weaknesses effortlessly.
Vaporeon does what it always does in Rotations, passing fat Wishes and Heal Bells. Strong Scald is a nice chip damage and Burn fishing.
Gliscor is running the wrong nature and EVs. I lost because I wasn't running Jolly + Max Speed. Stalls forever, killing PP, stalling Leech Seed / Burn / Toxic / Perish Song turns, and covers Vaporeon solidly.
Works great, I need to rerun with bulkier sets + jolly Gliscor, and appearently CB Tyrantrum with flawless counterplay and Rock head is simply unbeatable even if you're running 4 things that hit Tyrantrum SE.
And I don't know where I do want to take this one from here. My main motivation by far was to become the first one to hit 1k with lead Greninja, that one fanboy favourite everyone wants to see successful, or indeed with any "lead Starmie" team at all (assuming Jumpman didn't beat me to this one lol), and I know it's not the longest Greninja streak yet, but beating Draegininja feels like less of a noteworthy goal because with all due respect it's "just" a setup sweeper lead team like several others, not an archetype of its own. I'll still probably fnd some targets to shoot for, but since I can't realistically move up on the leaderboard anyway there likely won't be a real reason to start grinding maniacally again. And if I'll continue without a goal I'll probably lose in the blink of an eye anyways, and that'd be a bit of a waste.
As a final note, yeah Scizor's EV spread is wrong even aside from the 4 Def / 4 SpD EVs thing that I still need to fix, it should not run 44 Spe because the Speed tie with Milotic4 is aggressively suboptimal for no good reason. 196 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 52 Spe creeps it by one point. Undercreeping is an option as well, for a spread of 220 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 28 Spe—I went with 101 Spe at first because "wow so many threats in the 100 tier" and never really stopped to think about it ever again, but now that I've got more Singles battles under my belt than just the dumb Mega Kangaskhan / Aegislash / Dragonite streak, a closer look at the Speed tiers tells me there's honestly not that much in the 100 Speed bracket where outspeeding it actually makes a difference, since most of those get smacked by BP / set up on easily either way or Scizor shouldn't stay in on to begin with. Outspeeding is beneficial against Altaria4 (puts Scizor to sleep but it's so piss weak that it can't inflict over 50% of damage even if Scizor sleeps for the max number of turns. Waking up before it attacks gives Scizor one more turn to boost / Roost before it gets put to sleep again, which saves a fair bit of PP and especially time in the long run) and Gallade3 (super duper rare but I guess being able to Roost before the barrage of crits was nice the one time I faced it as a lead); otherwise, it technically is favourable against Mandibuzz4 (but only to a stupidly minor extent) and Shiftry4 (timewise alone though, 101 Speed lets you outprioritise Sucker Punch but you can switch-stall that anyway. Sorta stupid since this was the main reason for 101 Speed that I had in mind at first). 99 Speed provides a theoretical advantage against Dragonite3 since this would allow Scizor to Roost on its Superpowers, but lol talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel; Regice2 might be a bigger reason, since underspeeding it guarantees it will use Thunderbolt against Scizor rather than Icy Wind, which makes switching Gliscor back in a lot safer and could come in handy in very sticky situations. But yeah the point I'm making is that it honestly looks optional whether you go with 99 or 102 Speed, just as long as it's not 101.
Of course I ended up continuing my streak, with turskain's record and "Mega Scizor > Mega Slowbro" being very near targets to shoot for and 1,5k (and maybe even 2k) starting to look feasible. As I already expected though, it was not meant to be. Battle 1477 had a Cofagrigus4 lead, which Greninja 2HKOed and was followed by Skuntank4. Skuntank4 is a threat that has rightfully left me kind of paranoid, since it seems to pick its moves nearly at random. I've seen it use Fire Blast against both Water / Dark Greninja and regular Gyarados, and I distinctly remember one battle on some earlier run that got sticky because Gliscor got burned by Fire Blast on the switch. I still go to Gliscor against lead Skuntank because it's the safest option overall, but now that it came out second against Dark Greninja, my thought process was basically like "if it already can use resisted Fire Blast who knows how likely it is to use neutral Fire Blast, and don't switch non-poisoned Gliscor into a Fire-type move ever", and "Greninja is the most expendable member of the team by far, even if it uses Explosion I'd be simplifying the battle to a 2v1 and Scizor + Gliscor should beat 'everything'." So that's basically what happens, I use Surf, Skuntank uses Explosion, and I send out Gliscor to see what thirdmon awaits me.
And it's Noivern, and it doesn't telegraph Frisk. Which really fucking sucks because I can't Sub / Protect it, it OHKOes Scizor, and whoever said that Noivern is frail probably has to resort to coining new adjectives to properly describe Greninja / Weavile / Lucario / etc. Nevertheless, Gliscor + Scizor still beats Noivern if I can get off four rounds of Toxic damage + one Bullet Punch, which in this case means Toxic, Protect, go to Scizor, Bullet Punch as Scizor is KOed, win. But in one of those 10%-ish occurrences, Hurricane hits, Gliscor gets confused, and it hits itself in confusion. Code red with no reliable way to security at this point. Protect successfully for PH recovery, try Toxic again—and another self-hit. At this point, Gliscor is comfortably in Hurricane KO range, so I have to Protect—and confusion wears off, leaving Gliscor at 79 HP. I still have to Toxic Noivern before switching to Scizor, and 79 HP is enough to survive a mid-low Hurricane roll, and if I can get the Toxic off then I can still rack up those four rounds... but Noivern gets the roll it needs and doesn't miraculously not use Flamethrower against Scizor, and the run is over.
The misplay... was there, not gonna lie, I was too paranoid against Skuntank and just switching to Gliscor would've made the battle trivial. While switching back and forth to Scizor to reset confusion wouldn't have worked (leaving the "what if it uses Hurricane on the switch back to Gliscor, after all it is a guaranteed OHKO at that point too" scenarios aside, which are in no universe more likely than a confusion self-hit,", I wouldn't have been able to switch out to Scizor again, meaning I'd have to sack Gliscor first—which would have left only three rounds of Toxic damage rip), going for Protect over Toxic after the first confusion self-hit probably was playing the odds in stupid ways too.
However. Noivern needed hax to 1v2 Scizor + Gliscor. There is legit not a single foe that comes to mind that can beat them without hax (Hydreigon3 probably, but not that it was relevant in that particular battle, and even Tyrantrum4 needs to have Rock Head and get a high roll on Gliscor and get a very high roll on Mega Scizor, that's pretty much "hax" at that point). All I'm trying to say is that this was a much "better", and easier-to-swallow, loss than the Marathon one, and that I can't hold _that_ much against myself. Unlike with actual brain meltdowns I can still defend what I did, not to mention the hax was pretty substantial. I also just realised that had I switched to Gliscor I would have been one crit away from losing to lastmon Darmanitan4. Or would at best have been at the mercy of damage rolls had it not been for that Dark Pulse flinch Greninja got on Cofag. Close calls will happen with this team I guess...
But yes, there's absolutely nothing left for me to do in Singles now this generation, and this was a nicer note to end this mode on than my Marathon loss. Additionally, like I already mentioned before, it was nice to feel how much the Marathon runs made me improve my play in Singles in general too. To end with a replay / anecdote, one thing in particular that I noticed was how Gyarados4 and Suicune1 that came out against Gliscor usually actually just ended up dying outright to the Toxic I'd throw out to "pressure" them, rather than just using Rest like they should, all because "muh guaranteed OHKO, huh a Sub in the way, what even is a Sub". Battle 1197, JLUW-WWWW-WW4T-DRRK, started with another Latias3 lead critting its way through Scizor, and then Virizion4 came out against Gliscor. Which actually should be a "guaranteed" loss at this point since I didn't have the required 32 Sub / Protect PP to stall it out, especially after my initial plan of "immediate Toxic, then Toxic it again on the Rest turn, and if it Rests a second time, kill it with Greninja" seemed to fall through when it used Rest one turn too early. I was still able to use that second Toxic though since Gliscor usually can take a +4 Leaf Blade and set up a Sub afterwards, which it did manage to do (though just barely haha); and when Virizion was one round of Toxic damage away from succumbing, I just clicked Sub again, rather than get cute and use a different move to preserve HP or (worse) go to Greninja right away on the "Rest turn" and potentially take a +4 Leaf Blade to the face and be forced to take on the last mon with only a weakened Gliscor—since, indeed, I knew from the Gyarados and Suicune matchup that there was a very big chance of it attacking and dying to Toxic damage. It was not much of a next-leve, game-winning play in the actual battle, since I would have just 2HKOed it with Greninja had it indeed Rested, but it's nice little observations like this that have shown me that practice really is the way to bring one closer to perfection, and it's a nice feeling to be able to irrefutably prove to myself that I'm still able to improve even with 1000+ streaks under my belt already. Let's hope it bodes well for whatever SM is gonna bring.
Now then, for something else too, which I had been wanting to make a post about for a long time. Little is more annoying than having beaten your best record with a given team while you still have a better record in the same mode and the improvement over your old record with this team is incredibly minor; being stuck with an inaccurate record on the leaderboard while at the same time the new record really isn't worth posting about in any universe really sucks if you want to give a team that you love all the credit it deserves.
So excuse me for hijacking this post to talk about a Doubles team too. Let's talk about something that happened in March. It was a couple weeks after my Marathon loss, and I hadn't touched the Maison since, but there's funny ways in which one can get back into the game.
21:21:52: <Annasayshi> someone on bulbagarden wants help with a super doubles team
21:23:03: <Plumberjack> what kind of team?
21:23:25: <Annasayshi> the team they're currently using is gren/kanga/gengar/talon
The following discussion led to me quickly throwing together two rudimentary teams. The Bulbagarden dude's team becoming Greninja / Kangaskhan / Gastrodon / Talonflame, since Gengar was redundant with Talonflame already providing a Fighting resistance + Greninja wanting the Focus Sash too, and Gastrodon covering Greninja better. However, a different lead pairing that was mentioned was Greninja / Mega Gardevoir. Which obviously sounded like it had decent potential. "Okay we're using a lead Greninja and a lead Fairy so we're gonna have to use an Electric-immune backup and a Steel-type, for the former Gastrodon has the best synergy with Gardevoir, and for the Steel-type let's just go with Scizor again because otherwise lead Aerodactyl + literally any Scarfer / Jolteon from a Roller Skater can go suck a dick." So ding dong, congrats, new team in two minutes work. Sounds familiar? Yes, very. It's literally my Weavile / Gardevoir team with Greninja over Weavile. Which meant this was the perfect opportunity to do a direct one-on-one comparison between the two. At a glance, it also sounded a less soft to Steel- and Fire-types, so I was pretty excited to try it out, because for that reason I honestly was expecting it to be more or less on par with Weavile / Mega Gardevoir. And because "Greninja > Weavile", as the rumour goes at least.
So I played. About a 160 games. And then some Punk Girl appears, with the always fun lead matchup of Muk + Volcarona. Usual plan against Muk with Weavile + Mega Gardevoir is Fake Out + Psyshock to get it off the field with no risk for Quick Claw bs, but obviously with Greninja I just have to cross my fingers for no procs. Or (preferably) make a defensive switch to Scizor, but that's a pretty bad idea with a Volcarona on the field. No bs this time though, and Muk crumbles to Psyshock. Meanwhile I also switched Greninja out for Gastrodon, since Mat Block is useless in this matchup and Greninja is a liability against Volcarona anyways, so the perfectly logical play is to get my Volcarona check on the field right away before it boosts out of control.
Volcarona boosts.
Punk Girl sends out Roserade.
"whoops". About the only Grass-type (that actually runs Grass moves) Punk Girls can bring that doesn't get one-shot by Gardevoir on sight. Not entirely sure what happened next, and in hindsight this was probably still winnable with a decent backup (I don't think I lived to see that one, but simultaneously trying to keep Gastrodon alive and keep Volcarona under control didn't end up working out well in practice, and I was swept savagely.
But yeah at that point I realised this team was shakier than I thought at first, for reasons that I'll elaborate on in a bit. I tried swapping things around a bit to see if that'd go better, replacing Gastrodon with the more proactive Thundurus-T which still checked Steel-types pretty well and still provided an Electric-immune backup for Greninja; and since that made the Fire-type weakness even bigger I swapped out Grass Knot for Scald on Greninja. After all, those moves have reasonably similar coverage anyway, and doing this also crossed my mind in my runs with Greninja / Mega Blaziken / Thundurus-T / Scizor. I started another streak, and at some very early point (even before the Chatelaine if I recall correctly), there was lead Terrakion. Against which the standard play with Greninja / Mega Blaziken was, and it would be the same with Greninja / Mega Gardevoir and, presumably, Greninja / essentially everything, use Protect with the partner + attack Terrakion with Greninja. And so I did.
252 SpA Greninja Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 128-152 (77.1 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
...yeah, get this weak piece of shit out of here. Immediately after this battle I went back to the Weavile / Mega Gardevoir team, and I never looked back. I now had a reasonable sample size to say for sure that Weavile / Mega Gardevoir >>> Greninja / Mega Gardevoir, for a couple reasons:
- As already hinted by the Muk matchup, Fake Out is SO MUCH BETTER than Mat Block (Triples is a different story than Doubles yeah but shush), like seriously it's not even funny. I get that Mat Block blocks two attacking moves at once, but as soon as one of the foes is faster or has Quick Claw or uses status moves or runs Fake Out, you're essentially helpless and have to resort to defensive switches / AI predictions / hoping it'll work out in practice, whereas Fake Out does only stop one foe but does so while ignoring all those additional variables. It's hard to explain the difference properly, you just have to actually play with Mat Block again after having used Fake Out for a while and you'll feel right away how much sketchier otherwise trivial matchups become. It's just so much more consistent, and I've always assumed that's what we were aiming for here. Honestly, one of my main motivations on these runs was to prove Fake Out > Mat Block in numbers too, so that's one more reason I'm pretty bummed I wasn't able to beat even my Greninja / Mega Blaziken record (also note that these attempts are from even before turskain broke 1k with Mega Salamence), good thing turskain managed to prove that point instead haha.
- For this team/pairing specifically, Weavile is a physical attacker. I get that I have Psyshock too, but over my battles with Greninja I found that being able to consistently dish out physical damage too helps cover a lot more lead matchups.
- Weavile can run Protect. Greninja / Gardevoir has only three options on turn 1, being Mat Block + attack, two attacks, and Greninja attack + Gardevoir Protect, but Weavile / Gardevoir can also Protect bait with Weavile (essentially giving Gardevoir a free turn against dual Fighting-type move users, for example) and double Protect (good option against opposing Fake Out users, for example). This increased flexibility, combined with how much more consistent Fake Out is than Mat Block, enables Weavile / Gardevoir to reliably manoeuvre its way through so many more lead matchups than Greninja / Gardevoir can.
One rebreed and a few renames from previous iterations:
I've already explained this team a couple times and most of it should be self explanatory, but in short, Weavile + Gardevoir are a standard Fake Out + spread move lead pair with great offensive synergy. Sets should be largely standard too, with HP Ground on Gardevoir to slightly ease the matchup against (4x weak in particular) Steel-types like Heatran and Bastiodon. Gastrodon and Scizor then serve to cover the lead duo's weaknesses against Poison-, Steel-, and Fire-types and Trick Room, with Scizor also providing priority and Gastrodon keeping defensive setup mons like Volcarona, Gyarados, and Zapdos in check and occasionally providing speed control that Gardevoir and Scizor appreciate. I used to run Quiet 0 Spe IV Gastrodon in order to maximise its effectiveness under Trick Room whereas "it gets outrun by anything outside of Trick Room anyways". This gave Gastrodon a Speed stat of 39. However, one of the biggest threats to the team, Escavalier4, happened to sit at 40 Speed, smashing both Weavile and Gardevoir, mandating Superpower from Scizor, and outspeeding and Swaggering Gastrodon, so it honestly was kind of a no-brainer to go for 41 Speed instead. It took me some time to actually get around to rebreeding it because, as always, lazy, but here the new Gastrodon is finally. Minor optimisation, no real downsides.
No time (or characters probably lol) for an elaborate threatlist, but for that I'll gladly refer you to my previous two posts about this team. I should add, though, that Registeel (especially its boosting sets) are public enemy #1 easily, since Weavile and Gardevoir have trouble touching it, which forces you to gang up on it or, if that's not possible due to a threatening partner, potentially see it get out of hand real quickly. Another surprisingly big threat that I never got around to mentioning prior is (lmao) Rapidash, which OHKOes all of Weavile, Gardevoir, and Scizor, outspeeding the latter two as well and being unpredictable in its targeting. Fake Out helps, and Gardevoir survives Flare Blitz after you Knock Off its Charcoal, so it's not all bad, but yeah it's a lot dumber than it would appear at first heh.
Anyone that's read my previous writeups should notice a pattern here, and this is where I'd usually post something along the lines of "and all this successful brainstorming and experimenting gave me the confidence and drive that I needed, and I went on to break 1k." Honestly, I wish that would have happened again, but no such luck, and not because I didn't try.
The initial run ended after 433 straight wins. No battle video because no record, but a warstory based on IRC logs. Worth one because tense battle + mild bullshit involved.
April 7th, 2016
23:26:13: <Plumberjack> dammit lost
23:26:32: <Plumberjack> whiscash4 nukes both gastro and scizor with fissure in an otherwise won endgame situation
23:26:34: <Plumberjack> dammit
23:26:40: <Plumberjack> 434
23:27:06: <Turska> did it activate storm drain earlier already?
23:27:15: <Turska> or use fissure twice without muddy water being out?
23:27:44: <Plumberjack> storm drain was active yeah (activated by ludicolo and empoleon)
23:27:53: <Plumberjack> gastro was dead when it used the second fissure though
23:27:59: <Plumberjack> was scizor vs. whiscash one-on-one at that point
23:28:02: <Plumberjack> let's see...
23:28:07: <Plumberjack> lead leafeon and empoleon
23:28:30: <Plumberjack> fake out into detect (fake out is mandatory because qc bs) and use hyper voice
23:28:39: <Plumberjack> emp uses surf, crits weavile
23:29:17: <Plumberjack> turn 2, protect on weavile while hyper voice does lots to leafeon and something to emp, leafeon kills garde with leaf blade, emp kills leafeon with surf
23:29:22: <Plumberjack> send out gastro and ludicolo
23:29:45: <Plumberjack> switching out gastro is death at this point, so i knock off ludicolo
23:29:51: <Plumberjack> which uses hydro pump, yay
23:30:09: <Plumberjack> emp uses surf to kill weavile, gastro nukes emp with +2 earth power
23:30:16: <Plumberjack> send out scizor and whiscash
23:30:27: <Plumberjack> use bp to kill ludicolo and use earth power on whiscash
23:30:33: <Plumberjack> but fissure hits on gastro
23:30:39: <Plumberjack> and then fissure also hits on scizor
23:31:01: <Plumberjack> 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 168 HP / 168 Def Whiscash: 117-138 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
23:31:26: <Plumberjack> +2 220+ SpA Gastrodon Earth Power vs. 168 HP / 168+ SpD Whiscash: 127-151 (61.6 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
23:31:33: <Plumberjack> nine out of ten times, i win this one
23:31:34: <Plumberjack> :<
23:31:45: <Plumberjack> at least i didn't misplay, heh
23:31:47: <Plumberjack> refreshing
23:32:16: <Turska> what does leafeon do? x-scissor on weavile?
23:32:22: <Plumberjack> completely random
23:32:23: <Turska> or not enough dmg and might do anything?
23:32:27: <Plumberjack> but lots of crits and lots of bs
23:32:28: <Plumberjack> yeah
23:32:35: <Turska> at least greninja baits leaf blade
23:32:46: <Plumberjack> haha yeah...
23:32:53: <Plumberjack> though it cannot stop quick claw
23:35:09: <Plumberjack> 252+ SpA Ludicolo Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 164 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Gastrodon: 136-168 (65.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
23:35:15: <Plumberjack> also a nice calc to keep in mind :o
23:35:53: <Plumberjack> urgh, idk how i'll feel tomorrow, but right now i'm actually not demotivated lol
23:36:04: <Plumberjack> that 607 really feels beatable if i'm playing my a-game
23:36:06: <Plumberjack> which i was
23:36:08: <Turska> yeah grass knot doesn't kill gastrodon
Some Pokemon Ranger whose name I don't recall sends out Empoleon and Leafeon
Go! Catweazle and Gardevoir!
Turn 1
vs.
Leafeon's threat level is reasonably high with Quick Claw crits happening and potentially removing Gardevoir right away, so that one tends to demand the immediate Fake Out. Empoleon is obnoxious but can't really do anything when I have Gastrodon on the field, which obviously is another reason to kill Leafeon asap.
- Gardevoir has Mega Evolved into Mega Gardevoir;
- Leafeon uses Detect;
- Weavile uses Fake Out on Leafeon – Detect;
- Gardevoir uses Hyper Voice – Leafeon Detect, Empoleon takes damage;
- Empoleon uses Surf – Weavile critical hit, Gardevoir takes damage.
Turn 2
vs.
Probably should have double targeted Leafeon here, but I Protect on Weavile in case Quick Claw hax happens, having one mon use Protect is a weird autopilot play that I have against Quick Claw users.
...crap. Can't really afford to switch Gastrodon out now, so I'll have to pray Ludicolo attacks Weavile with Hydro Pump. Not the unlikeliest occurrence fortunately, since that's the only guaranteed OHKO it has at its disposal atm.
- Weavile uses Knock Off on Ludicolo – Ludicolo takes much damage;
- Ludicolo uses Hydro Pump – Gastrodon's Special Attack rose!;
- Empoleon uses Surf – Weavile KO, Ludicolo takes damage, Gastrodon's Special Attack rose;
- Gastrodon uses Earth Power on Empoleon – gruesome KO;
- Pokemon Ranger sends out Whiscash;
- Go! Gene!
Turn 4
vs.
Okay, this is looking good, with Ludicolo being in Bullet Punch's KO range and Whiscash being 2HKOed by any sensible combination of moves. Only way I can lose now is it hitting two Fissures in a row.
- Scizor uses Bullet Punch on Ludicolo – KO;
- Whiscash uses Fissure on Gastrodon – KO.
Turn 5
vs.
Oops... it _was_ guaranteed to use Fissure here since Storm Drain had Muddy Water blocked, but still...
- Scizor uses Bug Bite on Whiscash – 45%;
- Whiscash uses Fissure on Scizor – KO.
I lose.
However, since I was in good shape and playing well and enjoying the crap out of this team like always, I continued playing on and off. Until I finally did hit that one number I had been shooting for. And lost pretty much right afterwards, very much to my annoyance, since I had been wanting to make this post that I'm writing now for a long while (for my 2k, nothing less), but "hey guys I broke my record with not even my most successful doubles team by a whopping ten wins" is lame with a capital letter L.
Replay: #618: KS4W-WWWW-WW4T-DS75
Not worth a full warstory because I pretty much checkmated myself right away by being dumb. Veteran Saba, lead Cobalion + Regirock, and Fake Out on Cobalion + Hyper Voice since Cobalion is a huge threat that murders both Gardevoir and Weavile, especially if there's a risk of set 3 or 4 outrunning Gardevoir. As expected, Regirock4 uses Superpower on Weavile. Then, foolishly, I erroneously recall Knock Off being a KO on Cobalion at this point. It's not, Cobalion finishes off Gardevoir after also getting a Justified boost, and Regirock finishes off Weavile. Scizor and Gastrodon clear away the two of them by finishing off -2 Regirock with Bullet Punch, tanking the Close Combat, and finishing off Cobalion, but Raikou + Cresselia becomes a sticky matchup afterwards. Scizor uses Protect on Raikou's Thunderbolt while Gastrodon weakens it, but the double Protect that would have let Scizor get past Raikou and leave with a reasonable matchup against Cresselia fails. Gastrodon does manage to finish off Raikou, but Gastrodon versus Cresselia1 is an automatic loss.
The next run was lost at 200-something, and by then it I was getting burnt out of the Maison and it was obvious I wasn't gonna be able to make 1000 for my 2k, so I ended up taking a Maison break while I did something else (presumably better anyway, since I had already done a Maison writeup for my 1k) for 2k and returned to the Maison not for Weavile / Mega Gardevoir but for my Greninja singles team, which ended up being rather more successful haha. But after I hit 1k with that one and really after I lost that run, I went on another run with Weavile / Mega Gardevoir since I still had "form" running through my veins. And it was a good run. Until battle 607 happened.
Replay #607: 6PCG-WWWW-WW4T-DS8C
Veteran Alfie sends out Regirock and Entei
Go! Catweazle and Gardevoir!
Turn 1
vs.
Entei's threat level, especially sets 3 and 4, is enormous, with Eruption doing lots and Sacred Fire OHKOing both Weavile and Gardevoir, the former even through its Sash 50% of the time, it resisting Hyper Voice, and me not having any other move that can OHKO it either. Regirock, on the other hand, can have Drain Punch, which it can and will use against Weavile first chance it gets because muh 4x weakness, meaning it's kind of futile to prioritise damaging it as long as it'd regain all its HP off Weavile right away anyways. Whereas I have to attack Entei right away with its massive threat level. Trace / Pressure Speed tiers have confirmed set , there's no way it'd use Protect, is there?
- Gardevoir has Mega Evolved into Mega Gardevoir;
- Entei uses Protect;
- Weavile uses Fake Out on Entei—Protect;
- Gardevoir uses Psyshock on Entei—Protect;
- Regirock uses Rock Slide; Weavile at 1 HP, Gardevoir takes ~50% damage.
Turn 2
vs.
1 HP; 50%
LOL. Entei still has to die no matter what, so I Protect on Weavile since that one's most likely to get double targeted (worst-case scenario I'd get off one attack with both either way, and this gives me the biggest odds to buy one extra attack), and attack Entei while crossing my fingers because I pretty much have to pray for opportune backups right now already.
- Weavile uses Protect;
- Gardevoir uses Psyshock on Entei—50%;
- Entei uses Sacred Fire on Weavile—Protect;
- Regirock uses Rock Slide—Weavile Protect, Gardevoir KO;
- Go! Membrane!
Turn 3
100%; 50%
vs.
Time to smack Entei again, even if this doesn't kill then it'd at least get into Scizor's KO range. I don't know why I picked the moves I did rather than make sure Entei would die, I probably just assumed Knock Off would KO, but even then this did get off most damage on both targets without me taking a lot in return or giving Virizion the chance to get in immediately, so I guess it was okay... and not like it mattered much with the backups that were to come.
- Weavile uses Knock Off on Entei – 10%;
- Entei uses Sacred Fire on Weavile – KO;
- Regirock uses Drain Punch on Gastrodon – some damage;
- Gastrodon uses Earth Power on Regirock – 25%;
- Go! Pinwheel!
Turn 4
25%; 10%
vs.
100%; 90%
Okay, Entei is in Bullet Punch KO range and will be for a while, let's keep that one busy with Protect while finishing off Regirock. Probable misplay since just finishing off Entei (with Gastrodon) would have been better (or just removing both) and Regirock was in BP's KO range too, and judging by my plays I apparently was anticipating the Regirock switch anyways rip. But again, not that it mattered with those backups.
- Alfie withdraws Regirock for Latios;
- Scizor uses Protect;
- Entei uses Sacred Fire on Scizor – Protect;
- Gastrodon uses Scald on Latios; some damage.
Turn 5
100%; 10%
vs.
100%; 90%
Time to kill Entei for real now while slowing down Latios...
- Entei uses Protect;
- Scizor uses Bullet Punch on Entei – Protect;
- Latios uses Energy Ball on Gastrodon – KO.
Turn 6
100%; 10%
vs.
100%
LOL, mark 2. Erratic Protect again, and the one Latios set that OHKOes Gastrodon, so Scizor on its own versus four foes, although two of those are in Bullet Punch KO range and the third is locked into a move that can't hurt it. No real point in clicking forfeit yet I guess...
- Scizor uses Bullet Punch on Entei – KO;
- Latios uses Energy Ball on Scizor – some damage;
- Alfie sends out Moltres.
Turn 7
100%; 100%
vs.
90%
...nope, it's over.
- Scizor uses Bullet Punch on Moltres – some damage;
- Moltres uses Flamethrower on Scizor – KO.
...like seriously where the actual hell did that come from, it has a guaranteed OHKO on both Weavile and Gardevoir. Same with that random Protect against Scizor later. And meanwhile Regirock puts both of my Pokemon in its KO range for the next turn while there's no way I'm KOing it in return (and still I'd have to prioritise Entei either way), so after this turn it's obvious that I'm going to lose both Weavile and Gardevoir the next time they're getting attacked. And with a Grass-type move user and another Fire-type as the backups, I don't think the matchup was winnable anymore after that bizarre first turn. I don't think I misplayed either, since Entei34's threat level is so high that Fake Out is mandatory no matter what, and even then "why bother damaging Regirock as long as Weavile is still a walking bag of Drain Punch recovery". The funniest thing is, with Regirock being in BP KO range too and Latios locked into a move that does absolutely nothing to Scizor, had that final backup not been fucking Moltres but something like Regice or Terrakion (okay pretty much only those two I guess, probably even just Terrakion) then Scizor actually might have brought this one home 1v4 haha, but alas that was not the case, and so this run, too, ended, with me being outmatchupped by the AI. And outskilled. Mostly outskilled. And this is one of the very rare cases where there's actually nothing ironic about that word.
There's one final warstory, from the same run, that I'd like to present you guys with, because it's really tense and really good, again without a replay though since my battle vids were full but who needs those anyway.
Battle 525
Hex Maniac Anastasia sends out Metagross and Slowking
Go! Catweazle! Go! Gardevoir!
Turn 1
vs.
Slowking is an easy target for Knock Off, but Metagross is always pretty dumb to face. Standard play is either Fake Out it or switch out Gardevoir (its preferred target anyways) out for Gastrodon, like I do in this case. Fake Out Metagross + switch out Gardevoir for Gastrodon with Weavile using Protect on turn 2 would have been the better play in hindsight; even if set 4 sets up Trick Room, Gastrodon would be able to 2HKO Metagross and Weavile would still OHKO Slowking because it would just take one hit from Slowking at most. Does depend on Weavile being double targeted on turn 2 and (especially) Metagross4 not randomly using Protect, and in the event of Slowking3 the threat of Metagross3 Bullet Punch combined with potential Explosion usage might've made it messy, but still it would've been a lot better than the position I ended up finding myself in heh. But yes, two species I've faced tons of times before that have very clear "standard plays", and you know how it goes.
- Switch out Gardevoir for Gastrodon;
- Weavile uses Knock Off on Slowking – KO;
- Metagross uses Meteor Mash on Weavile – Weavile 1 HP, Metagross gets an Attack boost;
- Anastasia sends out Gourgeist.
Turn 2
vs.
1 HP
With potential Gourgeist3 and Metagross3, the latter at +1, this might be _very_ bad. Since Weavile is easy bait now, the threat of Bullet Punch killing it before Gourgeist gets to target it exists, and Scizor should take nothing from a Grass-type move should Gourgeist target Gastrodon, I click Protect on Weavile to scout sets + get Scizor in, which has a good matchup against all potential foes except Gourgeist3, unlike Gastrodon, which gets obliterated by any Gourgeist set. I have to preserve Gastrodon no matter what, since I need it to kill Meta and it would get obliterated on sight by Gourgeist4.
- Switch out Gastrodon for Scizor;
- Weavile uses Protect;
- Metagross uses Bullet Punch on Weavile – Protect;
- Gourgeist uses Flamethrower on Weavile – Protect.
Turn 3
vs.
1 HP
Code red like it's never been before—standard plays up to this point really, but I honestly think I've already lost the game, also since Metagross got that dumb Attack boost to make Bullet Punch a guaranteed OHKO on Gardevoir. I carefully weight my options for a long time, but I keep hitting the same brick wall. Weavile and Gardevoir beat Gourgeist (with its Sash broken Weavile needs any partner to deal the finishing blow but zzz y'all get the point) but get outsped and OHKOed by Metagross. Gastrodon and Scizor beat Metagross, but both get outsped and KOed by Gourgeist before they can finish it off. I need to remove one in order to be able to kill the other, but it looks like these two foes have got each other covered flawlessly. It's then that I realise that the only way one of these two is getting killed is through Metagross removing itself via Explosion. Clearly it won't use that one if Weavile or Gardevoir is on the field, but against a Gastrodon + Scizor lineup it might be an idiot and explode, since it can't really touch Scizor either way and in terms of damage output it's its only reasonable option against Gastrodon. And Gourgeist naturally won't be much of a deterrent. So I'm aiming to get those two Pokemon on the field now, since it's the best shot I've got—and if this plan succeeds, I can come out on top with Gardevoir + Scizor, which should have a reasonable matchup against Gourgeist + whatever lastmon Anastasia can bring.
- Switch out Weavile for Gastrodon;
- Scizor uses Protect;
- Gourgeist uses Flamethrower on Scizor—Protect;
- Metagross uses Earthquake—Scizor Protect, Gastrodon takes damage, Gourgeist takes a bit of damage.
Turn 4
vs.
Okay, let's see how intelligent this artificial intelligence really is...
- Switch our Scizor for Weavile;
- Gourgeist uses Flamethrower on Weavile—KO;
- Metagross uses Explosion—Gastrodon KO;
- Anastasia sends out Trevenant;
- Go! Gardevoir and Pinwheel!
Turn 5
100%; 90-ish%
vs.
Oh my goodness it actually worked, and an unknown Trevenant set won't be much of a problem, after all it's got no Fire-type move lol. Use Hyper Voice to weaken both badly while having Gourgeist use Flamethrower into Protect, and then even if Gardevoir dies Scizor shouldn't have a problem beating them 2v1.
- Gardevoir has Mega Evolved into Mega Gardevoir;
- Scizor uses Protect;
- Gardevoir uses Hyper Voice—Gourgeist KO, Trevenant takes lots of damage;
- Trevenant uses Shadow Claw on Gardevoir—KO.
Turn 6
40-ish%
vs.
Protect on Scizor ends up being unnecessary since Hyper Voice KOes Gourgeist outright (which wouldn't have happened without the chip damage from Earthquake and the mid-high roll that I apparently got), but who caresss
- Scizor uses Bug Bite on Trevenant—KO.
I win.
Sept. 18th, 2016
12:38:16: <Plumberjack> 1 HP weavile and scizor out versus +1 metagross3 and gourgeist3
12:38:18: <Plumberjack> is this a loss
12:38:31: <Plumberjack> backups are fully healthy
12:38:41: <Plumberjack> gourgeist does not ohko gastro
12:40:03: <Plumberjack> urgh lemme
12:40:04: <Plumberjack> think
12:40:23: <Plumberjack> if i use bullet punch on gourgeist now it comes in ko range of spread hyper voice
12:41:57: <Plumberjack> earth power does not ohko metagross
12:42:09: <Plumberjack> so there goes my plan of sack both, protect on garde, kill metagross
12:44:16: <Plumberjack> i can switch weavile out for gastrodon to get a free fake out but there's no real purpose if that won't be enough to get rid of metagross anyway
12:45:02: <Plumberjack> i have literally four pokemon alive and this looks like a complete checkmate
12:45:11: <Plumberjack> three pokemon at full
12:45:14: <Plumberjack> z_z
12:46:02: <Plumberjack> alternatively
12:46:17: <Plumberjack> try double protect on weavile, likely sacking it
12:46:37: <Plumberjack> switch scizor out for gardevoir
12:47:05: <Plumberjack> which probably makes the matchup gardevoir + gastrodon
12:47:09: <Plumberjack> protect on gardevoir
12:47:44: <Plumberjack> while earth powering metagross
12:47:59: <Plumberjack> and pray gastro survives the energy ball
12:49:01: <Plumberjack> but i need either a second earth power or a bug bite to kill metagross, both of which aren't happening as long as gourgeist is alive
12:49:29: <Plumberjack> and gourgeist is only getting killed by gardevoir or weavile, which are dead meat with +1 metagross on the field
12:49:44: <Plumberjack> why do i play this game
12:50:45: <Plumberjack> how about
12:50:59: <Plumberjack> switch weavile out for gastrodon, use bug bite on scizor, use protect on scizor the next turn
12:51:12: <Plumberjack> *use bug bite on metagross
12:51:31: <Plumberjack> hoping gourgeist miraculously targets weavile turn 1 and scizor turn 2
12:51:49: <Plumberjack> o wait that won't work either since gastrodon will be in gourgeist's ko range for sure
12:54:09: <Turska> is is still going n
12:54:14: <Plumberjack> yeah
12:54:17: <Plumberjack> haven't done anything
12:54:38: <Plumberjack> i assume metagross would use explosion against a gastrodon + scizor lineup
12:54:44: <Plumberjack> which would get it off the field
12:55:32: <Plumberjack> turn 1: metagross and slowking, knock off ohko on slowking, switch gardevoir out for gastro, gourgeist comes in
12:55:45: <Plumberjack> turn 2: protect on weavile, weavile is double targeted, confirming gourgeist3
12:55:52: <Plumberjack> while switching gastro out for scizor
12:55:59: <Plumberjack> standard plays really but im pretty fucked rn
12:56:43: <Plumberjack> im honestly tempted to switch weavile out for gastro and click protect on scizor
12:56:44: <Turska> uh, maybe meta will explode at some point like an idiot
12:56:57: <Plumberjack> and then switch scizor out for weavile and hoping meta explodes
12:56:58: <Plumberjack> yeah
12:57:10: <Turska> it's got a gourgeist partner too
12:57:19: <Turska> so there should be nothing discouraging it aside from weavile potentially
12:57:25: <Plumberjack> mhm
12:57:28: <Turska> and scizor resisting but it doesn't seem to care very often
12:57:30: <Plumberjack> which would be off the field with this plan
12:57:31: <Plumberjack> yeah
12:57:39: <Plumberjack> im mainly assuming itd use it to target gastro
12:57:50: <Plumberjack> because it's the only move it's got that can do reasonable damage on either gastro or scizor
12:58:17: <Plumberjack> okay here goes nothing because it really seems like the best ive got
12:58:20: <Turska> is switching vile needed though, could hit gourgeist and sac it too?
12:58:27: <Plumberjack> bullet punch
12:58:31: <Turska> oh right
12:59:10: <Plumberjack> okay and meta used earthquake
12:59:39: <Plumberjack> oh my goodness it actually worked
12:59:51: <Plumberjack> garde + scizor vs. gourgeist + ??
12:59:51: <Turska> did meta explode
13:00:03: <Plumberjack> yeah
13:00:19: <Plumberjack> vs. gourgeist and unknown trevenant set
13:00:35: <Plumberjack> okay, mega evolve hyper voice + protect on scizor should be a guaranteed win
13:00:40: <Turska> isn't gourgeist3 one of the (irrelevant) grass sets i ev'd gastrodon to survive too
13:01:39: <Plumberjack> 252+ SpA Wise Glasses Gourgeist-Average Energy Ball vs. 164 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Gastrodon: 172-208 (83 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
13:01:41: <Plumberjack> sorta yeah
13:01:55: <Plumberjack> also my battle vids are still full so i can't save it
13:02:00: <Plumberjack> but
13:02:24: <Plumberjack> so yeah gourgeist was damaged from the earthquake and died to hyper voice right away lol
13:02:28: <Plumberjack> trevenant3 ohkoes garde
13:02:33: <Plumberjack> and scizor finishes the job
13:02:51: <Plumberjack> whewwwww
13:03:47: <Plumberjack> yeah i mean gourgeist3 wouldnt target gastro if that one's on the field
13:04:19: <Plumberjack> but i "had to" switch out gastro anyway because gourgeist4 does ohko it and i need it around to kill meta
13:04:54: <Plumberjack> and gourgeist3 would only not target gastro if i could get it on the field at full somehow
13:05:03: <Plumberjack> even bullet punch chip damage makes the ohko that much more likely
13:09:24: <Plumberjack> also, lol, this was battle 525, and the kingdra houdini act with my greninja team was battle 526 im pretty sure
13:09:40: <Plumberjack> seems like this is a pretty treacherous range x_x
With this team now having streaks of 617, 607, and 606 under its belt, I'm feeling the word "ceiling" getting rubbed into my face so hard that maybe it's time to take the hint. Which is pretty bitter, since out of the five (hopefully) noteworthy teams that I have built there's one that I always return to when I want to play Maison for fun. And it's not Dance of the Dawn, not Greninziken no. 7, not Marathon, not even Clockwork Angels, but this unnamed fifth one that's my favourite. I'm not angry about that final streak since honestly I lost fair and square and apparently it only took one unexpected move + a poor matchup to checkmate my team, I'm just... bummed. Bummed that apparently this is the way it is.
I honestly couldn't care less if the Doubles records are added to the leaderboard because they're not even the slightest hint of a ripple in the pond in the grand scheme of things, but yeah now that I've got something else to post too, just posting them here for completion's sake I guess and for some closure. With SM on the horizon and pretty much all my Pokemon time going into my forum work right now, I'm pretty much done with the Maison I think—nothing left to prove in singles, nothing left I should be shooting for in doubles, lost the motivation to ladder for triples a long time ago with how ridiculous those records are (especially proportionally to the teams in some cases) + how much bigger the power gap between brainless teams and goodstuff teams is than in other modes, no good team for rotations. I still have an ongoing triples streak of 300-something (and have had one for ages), and right before I lost I bought five ability capsules to prevent my BP count from maxing out, so I probably will be playing some more with team Clockwork Angels to get back to 9999 BP, but I'd very surprised if I manage to get more records to post after this post. I know I've said this several times before, so we'll see, but SM will likely be here by the time I regain my motivation, anyway. Good luck to you all, and whether or not I'll still find some other reasons to post in this thread, thanks for having me.
Excellent work, The Dutch Plumberjack! Looking forward to see you hopefully make a return with whatever Battle Facilities Sun & Moon will offer.
I've noticed the same with Skuntank4 against lead Dragonite; it pretty much uses any move at random, even Fire Blast.
Another oddity is that against a Nite with Aegi in the wings, I've haven't seen an Ursaring4 go for Return once; it always picks Aerial Ace.
Hi guys, I'm thinking of creating a competitive triples team with the 3 Kanto starters plus their pledge moves as the main lead. Kind of a themed team. Maybe a Tailwind Charizard plus Water Spout Mega-Blastoise with Support Venusaur? Any ideas would be most welcome :) How about the supporting mons which would synergize with the 3 main mons?
I FINALLY have been able to get an all-Maisonmons team past the Dana mark--as of about an hour ago, I beat her using a kinda-thrown together team. Leaderboard-ineligible due to the majority of the team being PokeGen-ed, I used: - Exeggutor4 (Left) - Lickilicky4 (Right)
- Glaceon4
- Dusknoir3
- Gyarados4
Leading the charge here is the one legit creation on the team:
Imperfect Aerodactyl1, doing what Aerodactyl1 does best...terrifying Maison novices (just kidding).
The team itself is the second one made as part of my "teambuild around Aerodactyl1" project. The idea behind it is pretty simple: use the absurd potential of Scarf STAB Rock Slide flinches to either get TR set up (most of the rest of the team is either quite slow or, in the case of Gyarados4, fairly slow), give Exeggutor4 & Lickilicky4 a chance to pick off things they can OHKO, or have the opportunity to make safe switch-ins. The three backups are all bulky in their own ways and can switch in for Aerodactyl if I feel like preserving him; Gyarados4 serves as a sort of status absorber; half of this team have evasion items/Double Team as an occasional safety net (in the case of Glaceon4/Lickilicky4, a semi-regular safety net). The team is somewhat inspired by Team Slip 'n' Slide, though I also rely on the increased probability of STAB Rock Slide finishing off weakened foes and giving time for Gyarados4/Dusknoir3 to set up (or spread status in the case of the latter) on top of the pure flinching shenanigans. And of course, my centerpiece has the durability of a hospice patient compared to SlipN'Slide herself. This is the furthest I've ever gotten a Maisonmons team; as always, limited type overlap and good defensive synergy can help prop up even the most half-baked of teams. I still don't expect to get past 75, though.
The rest of this page so far is shaping up to be excellent...I promise to read your most recent work at some point tonight, TDP. It seems like the kind of post that you need two hours, a cold glass of VitaminWater, and a nice couch to get through...
I'll also see if I can rack up some ideas tonight for your Pledge team concept, kuladiamond ...of course, you can also look to the recently-returning ProjectTitan313 and his Battle Spot Doubles Elemental Pledges team to shamelessly rip off or draw inspiration from (check the first entry under the 'Teams' tab). Don't know much of it you could apply to the Maison, but I have to imagine it could put in serious work.
I won't reveal much, but just know that AegisCave has not stopped his work with his most recent post here, not by a country mile...stay tuned (preferably, to his Twitch).
With the way activity here has picked up in the last week or two, next thing you know Chinese Dood will return from the grave and reveal he's been racking up Maison streaks all along...
I won't reveal much, but just know that AegisCave has not stopped his work with his most recent post here, not by a country mile...stay tuned (preferably, to his Twitch).
Hey, it's not my fault your work so far has been so entertaining to watch. Once you've got yourself into the Trophy Hall of Fame, let me know and I'll try to commission someone from The Workshop to make you a...special reward.
Side suggestion, you should name your Triples team NO DAMP ROCK.
So uh, were you indoctrinated into The Blindfolded Brotherhood?
No time (or characters probably lol) for an elaborate threatlist, but for that I'll gladly refer you to my previous two posts about this team. I should add, though, that Registeel (especially its boosting sets) are public enemy #1 easily, since Weavile and Gardevoir have trouble touching it, which forces you to gang up on it or, if that's not possible due to a threatening partner, potentially see it get out of hand real quickly. Another surprisingly big threat that I never got around to mentioning prior is (lmao) Rapidash, which OHKOes all of Weavile, Gardevoir, and Scizor, outspeeding the latter two as well and being unpredictable in its targeting. Fake Out helps, and Gardevoir survives Flare Blitz after you Knock Off its Charcoal, so it's not all bad, but yeah it's a lot dumber than it would appear at first heh
Looking at both teams posted, Registeel was the first thing I thought of when thinking of hard counters ("he's got no real answers for it, just a few "wear it down" answers"). Team Marathon seemed a little bit better prepared for it, I noticed. How do you deal with it if you're forced to let it set up (due to the aforementioned more threatening partners) in Doubles? What is your strategy against it using this recent Singles team? (They're all boosting sets, btw, in some form or fashion.)
Also, thank you for reminding me of Rapidash4, kind of want to add it to my Imperfect Army now. Shit, I could probably make Rapidash23 work somehow, if I thought about it hard enough.
I'll also see if I can rack up some ideas tonight for your Pledge team concept, kuladiamond ...of course, you can also look to the recently-returning ProjectTitan313 and his Battle Spot Doubles Elemental Pledges team to shamelessly rip off or draw inspiration from (check the first entry under the 'Teams' tab). Don't know much of it you could apply to the Maison, but I have to imagine it could put in serious work.
Oh that's a bit old hun. Current incarnation of horror is a bit different (same basic concept of "Char-Y's Fire Pledge is broke as fuck"), new version is still in testing and doing disgustingly well, but I haven't posted it anywhere. Gonna fix that later, gotta run out the door for work x_x
Double Mega seems to actually work in the Maison though, been running Char-Y + Mega Venu + EQ Spammer + Water Pledge user for a bit and Mega Venusaur is a bitch even with the massively larger Psychic / Flying pool than BSD. Psychic trainers get blasted by Char-Y; Venusaur has its odd moments but is 90% Char-Y.
I've been thinking about ways to generally describe each of the Set categories and think I've been finally been able to do so. Though each Set category has exceptions, each displays general prevalent trends featured by the individual sets:
- Set 1: "Kinda Gets It"-- sets are made with some idea of an individual Pokémon's strengths/weaknesses/viable roles but feature holes and are simply lesser versions of what could be superior sets with some tweaking (Gyarados1, Lucario1). Will sometimes feature attempts to shoehorn signature moves onto a set (Pyroar1, Greninja1) or try to fulfill multiple, sometimes conflicting roles on one set (Machamp1). Basically, these sets seem to be made by someone who is learning & feeling their way around the metagame but has potential to be a player.
- Set 2: "That's...Interesting"-- Lots of gimmick sets (Registeel2), sets playing to Pokemons' weaknesses (Gengar2), sets with seemingly no purpose in mind (Politoed2), and outright bad sets (Bastiodon2). Basically, sets made by a troll and someone focusing on the element of surprise.
- Set 3: "First-Strike Deck"-- Offense-oriented sets. While Choice items, Power/White Herbs, LO, and other offensive items do appear in earlier Set categories, this is where they begin to become more prevalent. Examples: Durant3 & Emboar3 are the only sets of their species with all damage-dealing moves. Bascially---barring the exceptions sprinkled throughout (Cradily3, Lopunny3)--these are the sets you would expect any fan of offensive teams (let's say, I don't know, dodmen) to come up with if GF asked Smogonites to design battle facility stuff.
- Set 4: "Streak-Stoppers"-- the closest things the Maison has to viable/competitive sets, these are generally the ones that show a good understanding of how to utilize 'mons to their full potential, while still displaying small flaws here and there, presumably to leave the fully viable sets for the players to create. It goes without saying that these are generally the most dangerous sets the Maison can throw at you. Some of these also come off like sets that were more viable/dangerous in earlier generations and are holdouts from an earlier era (Alakazam4). A few are legitimate survivors from Gen IV Frontier (Muk4, Ampharos4). Examples: Meganium4 could be the right idea with a stally Meganium set, but choosing Ingrain over Synthesis and being complete Taunt bait would be seen by some as issues, and having no HP EVs is questionable; Blaziken4 is Hardy; Mienshao4 has potential as a Doubles/Triples/Multis support set, but it holds Muscle Band when certain other items would probably serve it better. Basically, sets made by a middle-of-the-road competitive player who can get into the 1600s in any ladder or Battle Competition, but not much further.
I will ask the community-at-large: do these sound about right?
Smuckem, I generally agree with your classifications, but I think especially for Set4's, "viable/competitive" should be used as a loose term. Mons like Zapdos2, Walrein4, Blissey4 etc. have less than optimal sets, but due to the difficulty in taking them out in one hit, and also if enough bad luck crosses your path, streak-ending potential is pretty high. Even the rare Quick Claw Slowbro/Cradily can pose problems for the same reason.
My post doesn't end here though! Seeking a change of pace from Singles play (which I haven't lost..yet), I've decided to venture into the Triples realm on the side. Truth be told this is unfamiliar territory for me, but the Triples format offers a completely different dynamic, one I've been eager to try for quite some time. It was about a week ago when the teambuilding process came into fruition. Wasn't going to blatantly copy someone else's team this time (lol); I wanted it to be of my own creation.
I'm not super experienced at teambuilding, but I'd say I have a good enough idea about what strategies work and which ones don't. Thus, I was tossing up between the two most common Doubles/Triples archetypes, Tailwind or Trick Room, both of which have amassed impressive numbers on the leaderboards. I decided to go with the latter (more for convenience really), since I already had a healthy amount of TR abusers in my PC Boxes ready for battle.
So for the lead positions, an ideal setup would be a reliable, bulky TR setter on one side; a slow, hard hitter in the centre, preferably with a spread move; and either a support/another powerful mon to complement my main damage dealer. Mental Herb Cresselia was the obvious choice for my TR setter; Camerupt ticks all the boxes for the centre role, not to mention she's one of my favourite Mega Evolutions; Klefki however, was certainly the most unorthodox decision, but not without reason. As I was mapping out the team on Showdown, a thought came to me; priority is a powerful tool, so why not give the entire squad a pseudo Lum Berry (except better) to counter status, and Sun support for Mega Camerupt? Prankster Safeguard + Sunny Day was the answer I was looking for.
Mind you, this team is very much still in the trial & error stage. I'm 100 battles in, which I guess is a decent enough sample size to get a feel for how it plays. I actually had animations on mainly to see Camerupt unleash glorious burning hell, but they're off now that the initial novelty's worn out. The bits in bold are changes I'm considering making, but any feedback, tips, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
[edit] Battle No. 101 vs Pokemon Ranger Hunter: 887G-WWWW-WW5X-X8XA
Cresselia (F) @ Mental Herb
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 31/3/31/31/31/0
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Helping Hand
- Moonlight
252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Pretty standard fare here; Mental Herb for Cress to setup TR in front of Taunt, Helping Hand to boost allies' moves, and Moonlight for reliable recovery, restoring a massive 2/3 of total HP when the sun's out. The nature and EV spread favours Cresselia's higher Special Defense, while still offering respectable Defense.
-->
Camerupt (F) ("Hot Humps") @ Cameruptite
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magma Armor --> Sheer Force
IVs: 31/1/31/31/31/0
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Protect
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Not much of an explanation needed for the camel either. STAB Earth Power and Solar Beam beat down Fire-resistant threats, but even so, Helping Hand, Sun-boosted Eruptions can do things like this: 252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Helping Hand Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum in Sun: 97-114 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Protect is mandatory for something so slow, but there are rare instances where you can afford not to Protect even before TR is up.
Klefki (M) ("Key Chainz") @ Leftovers/Wide Lens
Nature: Impish
Ability: Prankster
IVs: 31/31/31/7/31/31
- Safeguard
- Sunny Day
- Play Rough/Magnet Rise/Protect
- Swagger
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Safeguard's ability to protect my whole side is an absolute godsend, as we all know how prevalent status is in the Maison. Sunny Day powers up Eruption to scary levels (imagine if it got a Sheer Force Boost as well!), and Swagger provides utility in two ways: in conjunction with Safeguard, Klefki can boost Conkeldurr or Bisharp's Attack if the need arises; or if there's no better option, he can use it in an attempt to dismantle the CPU. Play Rough is the filler move, its main target being Dragon types which it still does respectable damage too. Other options are Magnet Rise or Protect, which would make Klefki Taunt-bait. He has 31 Speed IVs which may not be optimal here, but I couldn't be bothered breeding for a new one, and the non-Prankster Play Rough is rarely used anyway. Max physically defensive build works out well here, balancing out with the more specially oriented teammates.
Gastrodon's a great switch-in to the Water moves Camerupt attracts, redirecting any single-target move. Storm Drain doesn't protect Camerupt from Surf or Muddy Water, however, which I need to remember haha. Standard coverage, but the main change I'm considering is Scald; Muddy Water does provide spread damage, but that 85% accuracy will probably bite me in the butt before too long, and Gastrodon's damage output isn't that impressive without any boosts. Scald's 100% accuracy and 66% chance to burn may be in my best interests. Also, I'm not sure how often Rindo Berry will actually come into play, so Sitrus Berry was another option. I believe the EV spread was taken from R Inanimate's Rain team.
Conkeldurr (M) ("Mr Muscle") @ Assault Vest
Nature: Brave
Ability: Iron Fist
IVs: 31/31/31/13/31/0
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch
108 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 140 SpD
With the Assault Vest and Iron Fist, Conkeldurr's a good switch-in to special attackers with great power to boot. Drain Punch recovers lost health and is his most damaging move, Knock Off & Ice Punch were too good to pass up for coverage, and Mach Punch is the emergency response for threats that need to be dealt with ASAP, and for picking off weakened foes. I just used Eppie's EV spread, as I liked the look of the damage calcs he displayed.
Bisharp (F) ("Mileena") @ Black Glasses
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Defiant
IVs: 31/31/31/0/31/31
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect
124 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
The Speed EVs might look weird, but Bisharp's middling Speed tier and access to STAB Sucker Punch means he can function well both inside or outside of Trick Room. I wanted her to hit 106 Speed so she can outrun Articuno1/2, Cresselia1/2/3, and Suicune1/2/3, while still "underspeeding" a decent number in TR. Protect is always handy for baiting SE moves (especially Fighting ones), as is Knock Off for its power and item-removing effect, while STAB Iron Head rounds off Bisharp's coverage nicely.
So there you go, a sorta hybrid Trick Room-Sun support team designed to tear holes through the opposition quickly and efficiently. Note that Cresselia is the only mon that knows TR; this was intentional however as I didn't want my team relying too heavily upon it. The Maison's bound to throw countermeasures at me (mons even slower than mine for example), so I wanted to make sure I had the tools to tackle these problems head-on.
So, I'm trying out the Battle Maison in ORAS, and I'm working on a Super Singles Run. I attempted this a little while back, but never got past... 28, I think. My previous team was Choice Specs Goodra, Assault Vest Azumarill, and a Bulky Talonflame (no item for acrobatics). This time I decided to bring a stronger dragon type in, and I'd already bred a Jolly Outrage Garchomp, and since I wanted to keep Azumarill, I started looking at choices for a third pokemon. The guides here led me to Mega Scizor, so this is my current team.
Scizor@Scizorite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician (I know Light metal is superior, but I can't be bothered to find a Hidden ability one among the hordes, since those only show up 5% of the time. Besides, I can run it as a regular scizor in the battle spot this way)
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP/108 Atk/28 Def/116 SpD/4 Spe (The standard Battle Spot array reccomended on this sight)
-Bug Bite
-Bullet Punch
-Roost
-Swords Dance
Does anyone have any alterations they'd reccomend (Should I ditch the battle spot EV spreads in favor of simpler 252/252/4 speads?) Do I need a special attacker?
Camerupt "Krakatoa"
Cameruptite
Quiet
Solid Rock > Sheer Force
252HP/252SpA/4Def
Earth Power/Eruption/Heat Wave/Yawn
Obviously the standard Aron abuse team and definitely has flaws that I doubt will get it much farther than this. Earthquake spam got really common in fights 40 to 50, but honestly it was some of the lower streak matches that gave me the most trouble, particularly one at 24 against double priority Talonflame and Aqua Jet Dewgong that almost made me bite it (partially due to bad plays on my part). Also despite ghost types being an effective counter they just stopped appearing after match 30 or so.
Zebstrika with Air Balloon was extremely common, despite never amounting to anything. Slowking and Escalvier were my priority targets whenever they showed up. Other thing I noticed was weird AI quirks, as it liked to change the weather a lot (match 12 had it set rain, then sun, then back to rain again). It even did this with sun and a sandstorm in match 44!
The other odd thing was no Wide Guard, not even once which I found VERY odd. Since Divine is almost useless against it (although since he can't be tuant-ed he's never useless) and Camerupt relies on it I thought I'd see it more. Probably will if I kept going.
Other than that not much to say, I barely used more than Aron and Armoatisse. Really simple but I've been struggling with doubles for a long time (using Disquake, Cresselia + Garchomp, M-Lucario, M-Charizard Y + Typhlosion and even Aron + Musharna but always biting it by the 40's).
So forgive me for sharing a little happiness on finally beating this. Yeah!
Now I've beaten 50 on all the super lines except Rotation Battles which I'll be trying next! Unfortunately not all on the same cartridge though.
All that means is that you got past your previous best of 28, and past 50...more experience, in and of itself, will get you past this hump pretty soon, as I think the current team is solid enough and should get you your Lansat Berry. Anything past that? You might need that special attacker ready...
stage7_4, a lack of Wide Guard opponents is not that weird that you consider the small number of Maisonmons that run it, relative to the total number. There are, what, seven Wide Guard users in full? Set 3 doesn't even have any.
EDIT: For whatever reason, I very suddenly got the urge to head back to X and try to secure my Lansat/Starf Berries from there (my best streak on there didn't even hit 60). That urge didn't last very long, but in the process of getting that out of my system, I tested out a couple of teams, picked up a quick Battle #4 loss along the way, and had an interesting Battle #4 on the following attempt. Both battles featured the annoying pair of opponents, which is why I saved them. No need to share them, but the seocnd one of these piqued my interest in a different way...
I've always wanted to collect the "quintessential sample battles" from each Maison Set category: opposing teams that could offer the best possible litmus test against the widest variety of player teams possible. Set 1-wise, and as far as Triples go, I think I've found it.
With that said, I offer a rhetorical question for all those dabbling in Triples to think about/chew over:
The opposing leads are Slowking/Aerodactyl/Dewgong (Set 1). What's your Turn 1 move?
So after a string of attempts at different game modes and a few pathetic streaks, I finally managed to construct a team which has passed the 100 mark in the Triples Game mode without much problem.
Here's the video code for my 100th battle: BR4W-WWWW-WW5X- 9ATG
currently sitting at 104 and climbing.
Drew inspiration from brakeriders set-up so credits there. I initially thought that having 3 special attacking leads maybe a problem but I've had a fairly smooth journey thus far. Landorus can come in when any of the pokes go down and wreck havoc with Eq/Rock slide. Greninja and Kangaskhan are battle spot superstars so no explanation needed there. Moltres is probably outclassed by talonflame but I'd argue the opposite based on my team structure. Wide lens ensures that air slash and heatwave always hit. Tailwind is only really needed if I know thundurus is going down before I can shoot of a couple of t-waves or if I need landorus-T to do some outrunning which is fairly rare.
I thought of going calm on thudurus but already had an ev trained timid hp ice and the speed coupled with sp.att actually works out cause I primarily use him as an attacker and use t-wave sparingly (aerodactyl, weavile. Bascially anything that can outrun him) and taunt even less so (I taunted slowbrow and slowking to stop trickroom but they ended up having that ability which doesn't allow taunt to take effect and in a few cases, slowbrow shot off the TR anyway so now I just T-bolt+Shadow ball. Guaranteed KO). I know I should go timid on greninja but too lazy to breed for one, if anyone has one they are willing to give me, i'm more than open to charity. Overall, a good run thus far. Maybe one or two close calls which are often the product of serious hax. Will report when I make serious progress or prematurely lose.
Looking at both teams posted, Registeel was the first thing I thought of when thinking of hard counters ("he's got no real answers for it, just a few "wear it down" answers"). Team Marathon seemed a little bit better prepared for it, I noticed. How do you deal with it if you're forced to let it set up (due to the aforementioned more threatening partners) in Doubles? What is your strategy against it using this recent Singles team? (They're all boosting sets, btw, in some form or fashion.)
Whoops by "boosting sets" I just meant sets 1, 3, and 4, since unlike set 2 they actually become harder to break through as they boost >_>
The good thing about Registeel in Doubles is that Weavile and Gardevoir are the only ones that have trouble damaging it, Gastrodon and (especially) Scizor are able to blow huge chunks out of it if they can get in before it uses the proper defensive boosts, and that the only set with (actual) recovery is set 1. Set 2 has no bulk investment so it's not hard to KO, and it's honestly not much harder to handle than other obnoxious Steel-types. Sets 3 and 4 can get obnoxious if they can get a couple boosts in, but they're weak and have no real recovery (and no recovery at all if I Knock Off their Leftovers) so they can be worn down reasonably well. Set 1 is the only one that can actually snowball, and it's the most dangerous one. It's super dangerous in theory, but in practice I'm usually able to slow it down while I remove its partners or to get Gastrodon / Scizor in and blow a decisive chunk out of it. Additionally, unless I really don't find any room to attack it it'll spend a lot of its turns asleep, and the AI is a moron that'll often prefer trying to KO Weavile / Gardevoir over Resting back up when on low HP, occasionally allowing me to finish it off in situations where I really shouldn't be able to. If it gets room to get up four boosts or so then yes I'm in big trouble, but "that almost never happens" p_p the two worst cases that I recall are one that I lost and one that I only won because of a decisive HP Ground crit, in all other cases I was able to overwhelm it before it got too bad. Sorta all over the place sorry, how I tackle it depends on the rest of the opposing lineup so much that I don't really have standard plays for it, but the bottom line is that "pressuring" it is very much doable and that the rest of the opposing lineup actually is only very rarely so threatening that I'm unable to altogether.
Against my recent singles team it's a non-threat; set 4 is setup bait for Scizor, set 2 is 2HKOed by Gliscor, and Scizor sets up on sets 1 and 3 after Gliscor stalls them out of attacking PP (set 3 also needs to be switch-stalled for getting rid of Charge Beam but yeah you get the point. Or Gliscor just manages to muscle through them on its own if they pick their moves poorly). Obviously +6 Bug Bite still doesn't do much to +6 Def Registeel, but set 3 doesn't have recovery apart from Leftovers so that one gets taken down without trouble, and set 1 uses up its Rest PP before its Amnesia / Curse PP if I keep attacking it (so no taking +6 Struggles from that one) so the same thing goes for that one really. Or I just crit it while it's asleep heh.
I just hit 145 in the Super Singles with this team:
Sawk Choice Band
Sturdy
Adamant
31/31/31/X/31/31
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 Sp.def
Close Combat / Poison Jab / Ice Punch / Knock Off
Notes: Poison Jab for fairies, Knock Off for ghosts (and other weird things like Volc), Ice Punch for Grass/Poisons and Dragonites, Close Combat for literally everything else.
Notes: I have no idea where I got this from, but it's attacks don't do so little compared to a normal Aegislash. This definitely needs to be changed around.
I do think this team has potential, just with a different Aegislash set. Sawk one-shots things like Milotic, but can't one-shot Ampharos which is interesting. Two very notable threats: Lead Focus Sash T-tar with sandstream beats Sawk. Volcarona basically always burns something if it is the Quiver Set, as Flame Body is the bane of this team.
EDIT: I dunno how to upload replays (or find the number to share it on here), but the only one I remembered to take was my most recent (145) where I played horribly and still won because it was a Furisode Girl.
I just hit 145 in the Super Singles with this team:
Sawk Choice Band
Sturdy
Adamant
31/31/31/X/31/31
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 Sp.def
Close Combat / Poison Jab / Ice Punch / Knock Off
Notes: Poison Jab for fairies, Knock Off for ghosts (and other weird things like Volc), Ice Punch for Grass/Poisons and Dragonites, Close Combat for literally everything else.
Notes: I have no idea where I got this from, but it's attacks don't do so little compared to a normal Aegislash. This definitely needs to be changed around.
I do think this team has potential, just with a different Aegislash set. Sawk one-shots things like Milotic, but can't one-shot Ampharos which is interesting. Two very notable threats: Lead Focus Sash T-tar with sandstream beats Sawk. Volcarona basically always burns something if it is the Quiver Set, as Flame Body is the bane of this team.
EDIT: I dunno how to upload replays (or find the number to share it on here), but the only one I remembered to take was my most recent (145) where I played horribly and still won because it was a Furisode Girl.
if you saved the battle video, just find the Vs. Recorder in your key items, and you can see all your saved videos. It'll have the option to let you upload the video, and it'll give you a code that you can post for anyone else to see it. Make sure you connect to the internet before using the VS. Recorder tho, because if you're not connected, the options aren't greyed out or anything, they just completely don't exist, and it confuses me every single time I try to upload a video.
Also, cool team! I like seeing random guys like Sawk getting into the mix.
I was actually wondering about how to upload video as well, I thanks for that. With that said, the code for the inglorious battle that stopped me before getting a record is NCAW-WWWW-WW5X-Y4HY. In hindsight, I really should have sent Garchomp out immediately and just let it go nuts with outrage.
Been flipping through the thread for some random shit I might do in the limited time we have left pre-SM, and noticed several Triples streaks that had insufficient proof or were just not noticed in time. In my effort to bloat the Triples leaderboard as much as possible, I'll be trying to get in touch with several folks to see if they still have replays or photos available, so that we can get them on said leaderboard ASAP. The tabbed list below will be updated as I keep revisiting more of the thread:
