im not saying its not threatening but people are just making an overly big deal about it.
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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It is just THAT big of a deal.
Mega Khan may be the best luke but there's a good reason it's being looked as the undisputed second-best mega in the ou by most people. We're not talking about whether it's broken or not (and we shouldn't in this thread).
But mega luke is, without a doubt, disgustingly powerful pokemon that wins a game because of a mistake.
It "snowballs" too hard.
Mega Khan may be the best luke but there's a good reason it's being looked as the undisputed second-best mega in the ou by most people. We're not talking about whether it's broken or not (and we shouldn't in this thread).
But mega luke is, without a doubt, disgustingly powerful pokemon that wins a game because of a mistake.
It "snowballs" too hard.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, Mega Luke can be so disgustingly powerful it's rediculous. Mega Aggron's one goal in Life is to Sponge Physical hits and hit back hard, what with 230 Defense and Filter, so how does that fare against a Mega Lucario running a Physical set, after a single Swords Dance:
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 327-387 (95 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Before getting SD up: 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 165-195 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO
So even with those Colossal Defenses, Filter, full defensive investment and a Defense boosting nature Mega Aggron cannot switch in safely to a Mega Lucario, the only thing holding it back is that MLuke's a bit squishy. Oh and Mega Aggron get's royally ****** by any Luke's running Special Sets, because of how many different sets MLuke can run he's a offensive menace. Maybe not ban worthy, but still pretty damn impressive.
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 327-387 (95 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Before getting SD up: 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 165-195 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO
So even with those Colossal Defenses, Filter, full defensive investment and a Defense boosting nature Mega Aggron cannot switch in safely to a Mega Lucario, the only thing holding it back is that MLuke's a bit squishy. Oh and Mega Aggron get's royally ****** by any Luke's running Special Sets, because of how many different sets MLuke can run he's a offensive menace. Maybe not ban worthy, but still pretty damn impressive.
I personally don't have a big problem with MLuke and don't think its broken (not that this should be talked about to much in this thread) but to say it isn't any stronger than regular Luke in 4th gen is insane, because its a lot more powerful. Could regular Luke 2 hit KO Skarm from stock in 4th gen, no it couldn't. MLuke is a lot more powerful than regular, that in my book doesn't mean its broken though just means you have to play it better.
Your pretty correct in saying that its really hard to find something that can wall both Physical and Special Lucario but I do believe Rest Talk Gyarados does a pretty nice job of walling both. Its typing in conjunction with it great natural special bulk and Intimidate seems like it could do a good job. Better yet while uncommon Rest Talk Gyara is very viable, its not like I've just pulled out something like say Golurk from NU and claimed that Terakion isn't very terrifying because Golurk can take its hits (bad example I know).
Still this all theory mon so it may not be that good of a counter, and its SR weakness cant help but still it seems like it could be one of a few that can wall both Physical and Special Luke.
I'm just saying that I played a lot of 4th gen and had my fair share of Lucario sweeps when he was wildly popular. Once 5th gen rolled around, Lucario got outclassed and outmuscled by a lot if threats. Now that he has a mega evolution, he's a top tier threat, like he was in 4th gen and using him now reminds me of his old glory days.
Except MegaLuke now outspeeds most threats that used to give him a problems.
Here you go, it's at +1 instead of +2 to take into account Intimidate:
+1 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Gyarados: 195-230 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Still has the possibility of being 2HKO'ed.
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Its a defiant 2Hit KO with Rock then but you shouldn't be switching in your Gyara on a plus 2 Luke anyway. You should switch it in when you first see it and if you somehow let Luke get to plus 2 then sack something in order to switch it in. That's like saying Terrakion has no counter because nothing can switch in on it at plus 2 that's OU viable.
Speaking of Terrakion do people think he will be as dominate as he was in BW? I think he will defiantly still be a huge threat but with some new Pokémon roaming OU like Azumarill for example he wont be quiet as good as he was last gen.
Speaking of Terrakion do people think he will be as dominate as he was in BW? I think he will defiantly still be a huge threat but with some new Pokémon roaming OU like Azumarill for example he wont be quiet as good as he was last gen.
That reminds me of something someone said on the Charizard thread that was something along these lines: "Because Charizard has two radically different sets it's hard to find a hard counter until you know what set he's running, I'm sure everyone who had their Hippowdon nuked by YZard and Goodra mangled by X Zard agree."
Or something like that. Anyway, while I doubt the difference between MLuke's Physical and Special Sets is as radically different as Charizard's two Megas, Mega Luke has enough tools to the point where stuff that kill the Special Set are mangled by the Physical Set, and vice versa.
Sadly, Gliscor can only really counter that set. Variations of this set with Ice Punch put Gliscor into the infinite dreamland (ie. death). Special Lucario can cut up all the Physical walls that try to come in on move 1. Mixed Lucario....brrr, I love Lucario, but that makes me think it belongs in Uber. Mixed is that everything that comes in gets smashed to pieces on the switch. Only looks like it can be revenge killed, not countered or even checked. This thing is a powerhouse
Think you're forgetting that Steel / Rock packs a quad weakness to Fighting and Ground, as well a weakness to water. Tyrantrum is much better defensively because of its Dragon typing. Dragon Dance cranks Tyrantrum's Speed up to the same levels as Aggron's Automize, but grants it an attack boost too, so that point is kinda moot. Also, base 70 Speed was fast enough for Breloom to run Swords Dance and Choice Band last gen, but 71 isn't enough to run Dragon Dance or Scarf this gen? Tyrantrum doesn't get Spore, but it can actually tank a physical hit to set up, which is pretty good as well.
This thing will be more than just Rock Head Head Smash big attack stat, its other stats make it solid outside of that. Tbh this thing reminds me much more of Haxorus than Aggron, and Haxorus was still hanging onto OU last gen, plus Tyrantrum can actually spam its best STAB without getting locked into it.
Can you elaborate what Tyrantrum offers as a DDancer that other DDancers in ou doesn't have?
Nevermind the fact that Tyrantrum will be raped by Conkeldurr, CB Scizor, Lando-T, Gliscor, Greninjas, Scarfed Genesect, Lati@s twins, Garchomp, Zygarde, Azumarill, faster dragons and fairies, which basically makes up half of OU.
But the fact remains that Tyrantrum can switch in on Heatran and Talonflame, so he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Most Dragon Dancers are Dragons, which means that either they use Dragon Claw, which is kinda weak, or Outrage, which locks them into it and confuses them once its done. Tyrantrum gets better STAB in Head Smash that is more powerful than Outrage and still allows it to switch moves if something that can actually take it comes in, which is nice since Head Smash / Dragon Claw / Earthquake, iirc, is perfect neutral coverage on everything except Bronzong. Apart from that, physical bulk and the ability to turn Talonflame into a liability are decent.
Also, nearly everything on your list of counters also applies to Terrakion and Tyranitar as well, and both of those are pretty decent, right?
reply in bold
Its not just that Tyrantrum doesn't have to use Outrage, its the option it gets over Outrage. Outrage is 180 BP after STAB, Head Smash hits 225 BP. Megados Waterfall doesn't get anywhere near this much power.
Also, I wouldn't say that Tyrantrum's typing and stats are bad. Tyrantrum is neutral to Aqua Jet, and can actually take a super effective Bullet Punch or Ice Shard due to its massive defence, which is nearly as high as its Attack. Yeah, its Speed isn't exactly ideal, but its enough to outspeed positive 130s, which is as fast as the unboosted meta gets (Mega Alakazam tho lol)
Look, I get that Tyrantrum isn't going to be as popular or useful as things like Terrakion or Salamence or whatever, but the point I'm trying to make is that while Tyrantrum won't see OU usage, it will be viable in OU for teams that can use its unique strengths and cover its weaknesses.
Ahh. Viable in OU =/= OU though. Lotsa mons are viable in OU but ended up in UU.
Maybe weedle can come to a viability since his line got buffed with 10 more base attack?
252+ Atk Choice Band Weedle Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 21-25 (12.2 - 14.5%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weedle Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 21-25 (12.2 - 14.5%) -- possible 7HKO
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Yep. There's only so many Pokemon that can make that 3% usage. Tbh I don't really care about what's OU, UU, etc, I care more about if it actually has a niche in OU. I'd say Tyrantrum has one, so yeah. It absolutely won't get the usage of an OU poke, but it could hold its own on specific teams.
I get that, Quagsire was fairly popular last gen despite it being UU or something like that and while Tyrantrum, Terrakion and Tyranitar have the same or at least similar counters Tyrantrum has nothing to offer over Terrakion or Tyranitar. Mega Tyranitar has the same base speed as Tyrantrum and runs a better D-Dance set than Tyrantrum due to its higher defenses and higher attack. Terrakion is naturally faster than Tyrantrum and has a better movepool to show for it. There is no way Tyrantrum is ever going to be more viable than regular or mega Tyranitar or Terrakion. A high attack and defense stat with recoil-less Head Smash might sound good on paper but a lot of pokemon do all of its roles significantly better than it ever will.
Yes, Tyrantrum's use is more situational than anything. It has recoil less Head Smash but so does Aggron. D-Dance is done better by T-Tar, and anyways Tyrantrum suffers from a weakness to most priority moves, another major downfall of its that can end its sweeps. Tyrantrum is just outclassed in its roles and got that wrong typing, Rock Dragon is unique but nothing special, gives it weaknesses to prevalent types. It may do well enough in OU but it wont be OU, high UU at best. Lets move on.
Dragalgae OU, anyone?
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