So, how accurate are the Pokebank OU stats? Obviously for the most part, the top 50 or so can be expected to stay OU, but that includes some gimmicks like Smeargle. Also, some pokes have gotten minuscule usage despite most people agreeing they're certainly powerful enough to be in OU. When I compared October and November, there were a lot of discrepancies, so I was wondering when things can be expected to settle down.
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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I still think we need some time for the metagame to mellow out. We just got off Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Gengar, so I wouldn't expect the stats to be appropriate for what I'd consider the final markup for OU. There's some stuff like Thundurus, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D, and Genesect that obviously aren't appropriate for OU and are most likely going uber, but are still near mid-usage.
I'm assuming I'm a bit late for the dragalge argument, but I just wanted to say that an assult vest set with dragalge would be pretty scary, last I checked it was 154 base special defense (maybe that's florges though...). So that with a +1 stat boost isn't too shabby as a nice special defensive wall with a decent offensive presence. Adaptability Draco meteor definitely isn't too bad.
EDIT: wow... Herp my derp, I was way off. 123 not 154
EDIT: wow... Herp my derp, I was way off. 123 not 154
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Dragalge has base 123 special defense, not 154.
Nah, I think that bulky Specs will be Dragalge's main set. The secondary Poison typing is very anti-meta, and when Adaptability is released it'll see much more use. It has a decent shot at OU, I think, as it has plenty of resistances and the bulk to abuse them.
I just wish that it got Volt Switch...
Can we speculate that slurpluff will be ou? At least uu, since a belly drum set with sitrus berry activating unburden is op!
As a Dragon Dancer, Zygarde is going to struggle to compete. Dragonite can run the exact same set and the only things I see that DD Zygarde has over DNite is rock resistance, and the ability to block Volt Switches. Mind you, those are two very good things, but I think as a sweeper DNite can pull it off better
The Coil set is extremely dangerous. It's every bit as dangerous as some of the top setup sweepers. But it's "worse" in the sense that it's harder to pull off, use and build around, so even if it's equally dangerous as the best dragon dancers it'll struggle to compete with them in usage just because it's harder to just throw it on a team and call it a day.
While I wish that it would be, there is no chance. Not only does it have too low stats for OU, my QC thread got rejected, so nobody thinks this thing will be high tiered.
Slurpuff has no physical movepool (Play Rough, Thief, Return, lol), and if you are unable to fight a Belly Drum Sitrus Berry variant in some way, you kinda deserve to lose to it. It has to run Flamethrower to do any damage at all to Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory, and if you steal an item with Thief that nulls Unburden, so you're stuck with Play Rough, Return, and Flamethrower. Heatran completely walls that, as does physically defensive Mega Venusaur. It's also really susceptible to priority, and fast Scarfers.
Its Calm Mind set is slightly better in terms of coverage, but it's not like the monster Berry Juice Swirlix is in LC at all.
Yes they do mostly the same job but a flogres holding an assualt vest can be a huge wall. I tried it out and it tanks everything. A super effective flash cannon from a heatran didn't do even half. The reason why it suits flogres is because it has a lot of special attack and has a wider move pool to take full advantage of. Moon blast 4 stab energy ball for coverage, psychic for poison types and HP fire for steel types. Although heartan does wall it.
Assault Vest Florges is a horrible idea. What's the point in tanking special hits if you can't recover damage. it's the same problem vest Goodra has, it can take hits but gets worn down as the game progresses with n way to heal off. Florges isn't powerful enough to sing home about either, plus your left vulnerable to pretty much all priority in the tier. Florges isn't viable just because Sylveon exists as the only thing it can do is be a cleric which Sylveon does better, Sylveon hits harder, has better physical bulk, pretty much the same special bulk and more. Besides why couldn't Sylveon wear the vest to? It would do that better too (although i do not promote Sylveon in a vest, it's a bad idea.)
Tl;dr Dont use Florges, use Sylveon and don't put a vest on either of em.
First of all, if your not taking to much damage then there's no point in healing. If you are concerned about healing though there is wish, healing wish and lunar dance and if your in a double battle (which is probably flogres' strong point over sylveon) the there's heal pulse. Also I only suggest flogres because it has a much wider move pool in the way of special attacks than sylveon has. Also I'm just saying what I found when using this type of flogres, you can use a different option.
This is an overused speculation thread, doubles don't really matter for this thread. In singles, florges doesn't have the move pool or HP to run assault vest. If you want a special tank to heal with wish, things like goodra, tyranitar, and heatran are all more realiable and hit harder than florges with better move pools to boot.
the point is, although you take little damage from Special hits, since theres no recovery the damage adds up. its why MegaAggron isn't that good. it can tank any hit but can't take many repeated hits, try passing a Wish at low health at the wrong time, your wall is gone. its called RELIABLE recovery for a reason and a Vested Florges doesn't have it. stack onto this the fact that Florges movepool sucks for Assault vest as it just hits things with little utility (Think moves like Knock Off and Drain Punch. these kind of moves are Necessary for Assault Vest which is why Conkeldurr is one of the best users, that and it has great physical bulk so the vest makes up for its poor special side, where as Florges crumbles under any physical hit unlike its superior counter part SYlveon who has a chance of taking one) this is fact. and although Florges hits harder with its coverage, it doesn't hit as hard with its STAB and most Florges should be Mono Attacking because the ONLY reason to run Florges is as a cleric which Sylveon does better because it has bette mixed bulk with Slightly worse special bulk but much better HP and Defence and as such passes better wishes more reliably and gets of Heal Bells easier AND hits harder. why would you use Florges
as for doubles A) it doesn't matter here as this is the OU forum not doubles and B) why use either while Cress Exists? Cress is godly in doubles, Florges hasn't changed that.
I maintain there is NO good reason to use Florges. it has NO niche, its completely outclassed, its doomed to fall a tier below Sylveon who may not even get OU after people get over the "Shiny new toy" Syndrome.
It's +6 though and skarm and ferro won't enjoy taking a move from that guy.
Well it's not OU worthy for sure, but in UU that thing wrecks everything.
Megavenusaur won't enjoy taking a +6 return to the face either.
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 138-163 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 204-240 (57.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 348-410 (113.7 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Unburden
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 133-157 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 144-171 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 219-258 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 290-344 (94.7 - 112.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 110-130 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 97.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 167-197 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 138-163 (45 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'm not sure what kind of teams you are wrecking with that thing lol. UU has a shitton of Fire-types too, and a Scarfed Victini or Mienshao can outspeed Slurpuff and kill it. 486 Speed with Adamant is nothing special, and with Jolly you lose quite a bit of power.
Greninja's lack of bulk will make it BL or high UU, as with Talonflame;SR is too much to make it OU.
Aegis will shoot straight to top OU. Definitely not Ubers(though it could be viable) because it is slightly predictable.
Goodra's ability and stats are ok, but it's either high UU or BL.
Aegis will shoot straight to top OU. Definitely not Ubers(though it could be viable) because it is slightly predictable.
Goodra's ability and stats are ok, but it's either high UU or BL.
lolwut
Greninja is speedy and powerful. Its coverage discourages many switchins. It doesn't have to worry about bulk that much because it won't be taking hits in the first place. Talonflame is the fastest revenge killer in the game, and hits really damn hard with Choice Band. Goodra has awesome Special Defense, and is a really, really good tank. Also neither Greninja or Goodra would ever be banned to BL if they drop (UU would be more worried about Haxorus).
Greninja is staying. Talonflame is staying. Goodra is possibly staying, but it would be a welcome addition to UU too.
Decent point there. U turn will get Frog out quickly.
I am however worried by priority picking it off before it gets to U-turn out. Also Protean can backfire and leave him open to a Pursuit or some random move I would normally not be weak to.
I have used Goodra as a tank. It works.
BL was something I might have said while not paying attention (typing at 11 pm in a bathroom)
I however can't see Talonflame staying with that nasty SR weakness.
You know, you can just...switch? Unless you use Extrasensory, you don't really fear Pursuit at all, and common Pursuit users, such as Tyranitar and Scizor, cannot switch in on you at all.
Remember last gen's Volcarona? Talonflame is like that. If you are playing it without adequate Spin or Defog support, you are really, really dumb. There are so much more ways to deal with SR this gen, and Talonflame's role is so needed on just about every team. It can revenge kill any setup mon, regardless of how many boosts, unless it either resists Brave Bird or is a Dragonite with Multiscale intact.
Forgive me but I don't see the Extrasensory/Pursuit connection. U-turn does respectable damage as well. I should note it has absolutely no stat boosting moves outside of PUP?
Talonflame to me is a niche mon for revenge killing then getting the f*k out before it dies. It could be viable in OU. But Greninja IMO is solidly UU.
This is where I get the feeling you don't know what you're talking about lol.
Greninja has STAB on every move. Along with its decent movepool. Hydro Pump/Grass Knot/Ice Beam/HP Fire or Dark Pulse is awesome coverage, and its Life Orbbed HP Fire is stronger than Genesect's Flamethrower. It needs no stat boosting moves.
Talonflame is a niche mon, but it's a gigantic niche, and can find use on pretty much every team. And there's the Bulk UP stallbreaker set.
A bit of an unneeded stab, but whatever.
I kinda see where you're coming from. Greninja's constant STAB makes it a threat in OU. Talonflame I actually use in Ubers against Blaziken and in OU against Pokémon who are obvious Baton Passers.
Your arguments are good. I will not retract mine, but where the hell is the Extrasensory connection btwn Pursuit? Is it an inside joke or is this a joke on Extrasensory's mediocrity compared to Psychic?
Extrasensory makes Greninja Psychic-type. Otherwise, it is not Scizor bait at all. Greninja also does not learn Psychic.
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