Seems like a pretty fitting analogy imo
But...
Who the fuck is blaming the women? Maaaybe Reverb, who you never addressed and didn't call out as "stupid shit"? Ben's certainly not. I'm certainly not. Newtonja and Trax are not. Nobody's blaming the women nearly as much as the backwards system that we still have left in place from that.
~~~
"Perpetuate the inequality and damage the slave trade did to black people" - elaborate what you personally mean by that? I've seen a lot of different definitions of those, ranging from not perpetuating racism to white people being oppressive simply by existing.
I agree with misogynistic men as well, but "misogynistic systems" is also ridiculously broad; do you include pornography as misogynistic? If yes, pornography as a whole, or only certain kinds of porn? How about teaching, when most elementary-level teachers are females because they deal better with kids, while higher levels are more usually male? What's the status on misogynistic women? I find that, particularly in times where housewives were more common, it was more often than not the women of the household drilling submissiveness into their daughter's heads than anything the males ever did. I honestly found that my father was more absent than anything, and while my parents were indeed divorced when I was eight years old, I can't help but think that men would be largely absent from the average girl's day as she grew up learning how to do housework with her mother and female siblings while her male relatives worked in the fields.
[so i guess i'm now partially blaming women]
I'd say "some men" is very relevant to add to the conversation unless you think the vast majority of males in the western world are intentionally, blatantly sexist, which I simply don't think is true unless you're referring to "old white men" in the sense of those 50+ year old staunch conservatives who watch FOX news and have their wives make them sandwiches etc. Maybe I just don't get out much, maybe I don't live in the right area, but I usually see a lot of sensitivity towards women in particular.
I'd also like to know what your opinion is on women who actually want to be housewives/mothers instead of employed/generally "traditional" in their roles. Are they bringing themselves or other women down by doing this and not taking charge, or are they actually taking charge by having the choice and still choosing to do what they want.
Define "actively fighting" for me as well. I dislike the hatred of homosexuals strongly, and I don't typically tolerate blatant showing of it when I see it [not that I see it that often, surprisingly], but if I don't do things like go to parades and campaign for equal rights, am I part of the problem? I'm not really an "outgoing" person in any way, shape, or form. Does that mean I'm just a burden who rides on the waves of the status quo?
No, I'm not trying to say that shitty behaviour is excused by upbringing; what I am trying to say, though, is that they didn't make the system and shouldn't be blamed for the fact that it exists; people in here, at least, seem to be at least somewhere convenient of its existence. People that don't want the system to remain as it is shouldn't be blamed for its upkeep just because they're part of the group that started it; being male doesn't suddenly make you part of the problem unless you choose to be.
last wall of text im gonna sludge through before i go to bed...
i said i wasnt going to respond to the racial issues in this thread anymore and im not, take it up with me in pm if you are really that interested in pursuing further conversation (im not)
blaming women, not blaming men, trying to argue the good things women have over men, trying to show the scales as tipped towards women- whatever way you wanna split the hairs of my language, im getting to the same point: men created a system of inequality to oppress women, and trying to argue otherwise is avoiding the heart of the issue. why else would this thread be created other than to vilify a woman trying to do something good... so far most of the posts in this thread have been, in essence, "lets try to deflect the blame away from men, look how women overreact to simple words, women have it better in some cases, etc etc"
misogynist systems referring to most everything, western culture is based in a patriarchy. trying to dissect everything and look at it separately is not seeing the world for how it is. everything is impregnated with sex inequality and everything connects
yes porn is misogynistic. most of it is created by men for men and treats women as objects, not to mention to extreme conditions most female porn workers must go through- eroticism of this type only very recently in human history has been so readily available and creates and atmosphere in which nearly everything is sexualized- when i see sexy hot pocket ads and images of 12 year old girls modeling clothes in a sexual manner, i think it indicates a problem that has been caused by a culture that has been shaped by the degradation of women as sexual objects- the sex industry is a multi billion dollar industry and a powerful one at that. please do not mention the fact that men are sometimes sexualized as well, as i know somebody is bound to try and make this argument- the fact that occasionally exceptions to the rule of female objectification are made does not invalidate what i have said... it is such a broad and sweeping issue that branches out over so much of our culture that i would need a few months of free time to fully explain all of the details of it, so i will leave it here for the time being
yes, the teaching system is misogynistic as well... (im running out of steam ah... im so tired i have work to do in the morning i should go to bed...) the younger grades are often taught by women because such teaching is essentially based upon the activity that occurs between a child and a parent (historically woman) while higher education is male dominated because it moves away from the supposed "maternal" and into areas that, until recently, women have been not been able to tread
misogynistic women are a sad case. i see very misguided people who oppress themselves... they are victims of a system meant to keep them in a certain inferiority, they believe in the system because they cannot see themselves as anything but inherently inferior or different. they are certainly a different beast than a misogynistic man due to the fact that the system is not tipped in favor of them
i cannot blame the victims of a system designed to make them inferior for passing it onto their children, it doesnt make it right, but it still isnt the fault of the women... again, its tricky enough and detailed enough that i would need time i dont have to tackle the issue with the delicacy it needs
intention doesn't mean anything in this case, men do not have to be purposely sexist to be blatantly sexist, it doesnt make them any less at fault, just possibly more ignorant... i find it hard to believe that most people are in the dark about most sex issues anyways, even if they don't understand the exact nuances of it
women do not need to learn the nuances because we experience them every day... it is up to men to be more aware of themselves and what they do, not a woman's responsibility to teach a man what he does is sexist (even though we do and are often ignored or mocked)
women can do what we like. we can be housewives or CEOs- it speaks to our individuality, not our sex as a whole. the acceptance of some women over others is archaic in the feminist movement and i dont know any serious feminists who still follow the model of burn your bras and never have children or else youre perpetuating the patriarchy
active fighting is a refusal to participate in systems that you recognize as problematic (or, in cases where participation cannot be avoided, you work to overcome and educate others about things that are problematic within the system). passiveness is never neutral... i would go on but ive run out of steam for this particular post
Oh really they aren't?
Then perhaps I should point out how you saying "Men" perpetuate the system is patently false SINCE YOU ARE ACTIVELY PERPETUATING IT IN THE WAY THAT YOU ARE ARGUING.
You fought vehemently that women are still the victims of patriarchy even when they are receiving positive benefits from patriarchy as Ben was pointing out. And while he may have been wrong about various points, you still managed to miss the core issue he was driving at which was recognizing inequality, and instead favored portraying women as defenseless creatures who cannot overthrow the maniacal evilness of Patriarchy (Even in situations where women are getting exactly what they want). By overplaying women's victimhood and trying to turn it into some kind of guilt trip weapon only shows an innate buy in on the idea that women really cannot gain their own equality and need it to be given to them, or in other words a further perpetuation of the patriarchal culture. Even if you don't consciously think that's what you are doing, that is the effect those types of arguments have. Understanding the Patriarchy is a flawed system is one thing, to blatantly disregard the few inequalities biased towards women and represent them as still somehow being against women is simply disingenuous and arguably negative to the feminist cause.
maybe you should have stayed with your useless quips, because your "real" posts are even worse, your grasp of sex relations is pathetic
YOU seemed to have missed MY point that by dismantling the patriarchy, we achieve equality between the genders- without patriarchy, women would not be perceived in the certain lights that grant them favor in the courts (something which, for the thousandth time,
i do not agree with, however, it is caused by
a male system)
if you think that men are "giving" women equality, or that i am portraying women as weak, you are dead wrong- women have fought every step of the way. those in power never willingly give it up, women are victims, but this does not mean they are not strong and capable- we are so strong and capably that DESPITE being victimized, we continue to work towards what is right. we are strong because we continue to achieve despite having the scales so unbalanced against us.
you have misread what i have said so completely and utterly you honestly shouldnt have even bothered
Whether you like it or not there will always be a difference between women and men.
As women are considered to be the more important gender (at least nowadays) They will always receive a bit more leniency in court and always be the first to be rescued from an accident.
As men are generally the stronger gender they will get hired more and generally get more responsibility shifted on their shoulders.
Take it and bloody role with it. This woman doesn't want to ban the word. she wants to ban the connotation it receives. Whether she will succeed or not is a different story all together.
Sure in an ideal world the judicial system does not favour either gender and women get paid the same as men.
BUT THIS IS NOT AN IDEAL WORLD.
There will always be gender differences and as long as they don't get too out of hand you're just gonna have to role with them.
And if you support equal rights call yourself a humanist not a feminist as the word feminist makes you sound like you think females should be superior.
"WE APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR THIS STUPID POST."
your post is basically "its bad but whatever just take it up the ass and be happy"
change does not come from contentedness, you are clearly content enough if you view the world this way
not even going to tackle humanist vs feminist this late at night especially since this post has even less sensitivity to sex relations than the others in this thread lol
goodnight, all... sorry if some things arent clear enough or whatever im too tired to fix things right now haha