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Aron (Analysis) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jukain, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    I feel like I'll get shot in the face for not including something but Aron is a pretty simple Pokemon, not sure why it didn't have an analysis already.

    [Overview]

    <p>While using an NFE not named Chansey in OU might seem odd, especially one with such pitiful stats as Aron, Aron has quite a bit going for it. It succeeds where all other FEAR users have failed in the past, mainly due to its immunities to Toxic and sandstorm. This means that unlike Pokemon such as Cottonee and the classic Rattata, Aron cannot be worn down by most common forms of residual damage. It actually thrives in sand, as sandstorm damage finishes off most Pokemon after they take an Endeavor, mitigating Aron's lack of access to priority. After Aron is hit by an attack, which will always activate Sturdy because it is level 1, it can use Endeavor to bring the foe down to 1 HP. Aron's Shell Bell then heals it back up to full HP, creating an endless cycle of death.</p>

    <p>Like most Pokemon, Aron does have its flaws. First off, most opponents know exactly what Aron does, so they can play around it. Aron's major downfall is its vulnerability to entry hazards; if they are on the field, Aron cannot switch in lest its beloved Sturdy be broken. Additionally, it is affected by burn, Leech Seed, Encore, and Perish Song, not to mention multi-hit moves, which ignore Sturdy. Furthermore, Aron flat-out fails against stall and even some balance teams, as they always carry at least one or two of the aforementioned ways of defeating Aron. However, offensive teams generally have a difficult time against it; these teams are the most common, so Aron finds use in most battles. Overall, despite its numerous downfalls, Aron is a decent choice for any team, though you must provide the support it requires.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Endeavor (Level 1)
    move 1: Endeavor
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Hidden Power Rock
    item: Shell Bell
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Aron isn't that difficult to use, but there are a few steps you must take for it to succeed. During the Team Preview, look over your opponent's team. If he or she does not have a Ghost-type or a Pokemon that can inflict burn, then Aron has the upper hand. However, if the opponent does, these Pokemon and others that can stop Aron, such as users of Perish Song, Encore, and multi-hit attacks, must be removed. As the game progresses and these issues are dealt with, the next step is getting Aron in, which isn't that easy. If there are entry hazards on the field, make sure they are gone before you bring in Aron, as they will break its Sturdy and thus render it completely useless. Aron also has to come in completely unscathed, so you must be sure to utilize smart double switches, U-turn, and Volt Switch; the only other option is to bring it in after one of Aron's teammates faints. An interesting way to do this is to use a kamikaze Explosion and then bring it in.</p>

    <p>Once Aron is in play, you are nearly guaranteed one kill. Any attack will bring Aron down to Sturdy range, so the best move is to respond with Endeavor, after which Shell Bell will bring it back to full health. If the foe doesn't attack, you have a few options. This is where the other moves come into play. If the foe doesn't carry Leftovers, Protect is an excellent choice, as sandstorm damage will finish these foes off, assuming they are damaged by it. If the foe isn't affected by sandstorm or is a Ghost-type, using Toxic is the best modus operandi, as this will wear said foe down. Although Aron itself might not be able to complete the job, a teammate should be able to. Hidden Power Rock is for cases where the foe is immune to sandstorm damage and Toxic yet is sitting at 1 HP. Hidden Power Rock is chosen because every attack will do exactly two damage to a level 100 Pokemon regardless of its Base Power, and it can hit Shedinja. If the foe is immune to Toxic and sandstorm and carries Leftovers, Aron just will not be able to kill it, though it will come very close. Sometimes, however, you don't have to deal with any of this due to the foe being unprepared for Aron and can just spam Endeavor along with possibly Protect to win the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is run to ensure opposing Aron and other FEAR Pokemon don't outspeed Aron. Special Attack is fully invested in to give Aron to put it at least on equal footing against other Aron. In the realm of attacks, Stealth Rock is a decent support option, as every team needs the entry hazard, though Aron is not the most reliable setter of it. However, it gives Aron something to do against Pokemon it has no hope of overcoming. Sandstorm is an interesting choice, allowing Aron to support itself a bit more; it should be used as opposing weather inducers, such as Politoed and Ninetales, switch in. The final possibility is Roar, which can shuffle out threatening Pokemon as they switch in, often enabling Aron to get off a free Endeavor.</p>

    <p>When using Aron, two types of support are mandatory: sand and Rapid Spin. For the sand inducer, either Tyranitar or Hippowdon work, but Tyranitar is best suited for the offensive teams Aron is generally found on. Additionally, it can Pursuit trap Ghost-types, which stop Aron in its tracks. Rapid Spin support can be provided by Starmie, OU's best offensive spinner; it also happens to be able to handle Skarmory, another full stop to Aron. Toxic Spikes support isn't necessary, but it can be very useful if you don't want to waste time using Toxic. Forretress is generally the best Pokemon for this, as it can Rapid Spin as well. Other than these requirements, there isn't much else that Aron needs; there are some teams it will always utterly fail against and others that it will flat-out sweep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Using any set other than the one listed will cause you to be the laughingstock of the OU ladder. Don't even think about it.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As a start, any weather other than sand renders Aron completely useless. Without the additional damage sandstorm provides, Aron is unable to actually kill its foes. Ghost-types, such as Jellicent, Gengar, and Sableye, are unaffected by Endeavor and thus are perfect counters to it. All Aron can do in return is use Toxic, though Gengar is immune to it too. Jellicent and Sableye in addition to Rotom-W can burn Aron; because Aron is not immune to burn, it is immediately crippled for the duration of the match. Because Aron is affected by Leech Seed, Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Jumpluff can also stop Aron. Entry hazards also render Aron completely useless, as they break its beloved Sturdy, which means it can't take a hit before it uses Endeavor.</p>

    <p>Defensive Pokemon that are immune to Toxic and have some sort of recovery option, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory, though Ferrothorn won't enjoy a hit from Endeavor. Poison Heal Gliscor is especially effective, as its ability heals it up after the Endeavor; it is also immune to Toxic and sandstorm. Pokemon that carry multi-hit attacks, such as Breloom and Cloyster, can ignore Sturdy and kill Aron. Pokemon with the ability Mold Breaker or Teravolt work in a similar vein. Garchomp and Ferrothorn, which have the abilities Rough Skin and Iron Barbs respectively, can check Aron; their abilities can finish off Aron after it uses Endeavor, though the former pretty much has to sacrifice itself to do so,. Finally, having unrelenting offensive pressure means Aron cannot switch in, so if you somehow lack any of the aforementioned Pokemon, playing well can get you around it.</p>
  2. tehy

    tehy

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    I guess I should say here what I said in the Probopass analysis

    I would say max speed with a speed-boosting nature and then mixed defenses for other level 1 pokemon and such. It's kind of a massive copout and will probably only be useful in 1/1000 battles (If that) but hey why not. At the very least, max speed lets you swagger enemy Arons first, or at least speed tie with them. No Evs would just leave you possibly outsped by other arons of this very set and swagger'd, which kind of screws you over. Actually, on the same note, I would use a 0 Atk IV and an attack-reducing nature. Although this is going kind of overspecifically far. But I just thought of it and...why not, I guess.

    Also, Foul Plays still OHKO you anyhow, right? I assume the level part of the calculation trumps anything else.

    Edit: uhhh, AC or OO the actual move Sandstorm, just to provide your own sand and block hail? I guess... if you get a free turn somehow or something. Theoretically the opponent sacking a poke to endeavor could work.

    Also, CnC, stuff like Hippo, Lando-T, and Gliscor, that can heal with Lefties and not die to SS. Basically any non-SS weak pokemon? Skarm needs a special mention more than just 'steel-types' because it's immune to nearly everything, has lefties possibly, and even Roost (Although swagger eventually messes that up).

    Double edit: Lol, guess that does heal with Poison heal, not lefties. Also, CnC in general "Defensive pokemon immune to Sandstorm?"
  3. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    slash iron head with swagger on the 4th moveslot to kill sand-immune stuff that's sitting at 1 hp and is immune to toxic, namely steel-types like jirachi and heatran. i'd actually prefer if it was the first slash since swagger is just lame...boosting other stuff's attack in ou i've found is never a great idea.

    for evs, there actually are a few minor things that you can do to make some use of them. i think this set ought to run 252 attack and 252 speed, attack is to do miscellaneous damage if you ever need to kill like a tyranitar at 40 hp and speed is to outrun other arons that were stupid enough to not use any evs! 0 hp iv is fine, keep it like that.

    in checks and counters, please mention that anything with rough skin or iron barbs also takes aron out as long as it attacks on the turn aron tries to endeavor. yes, they go all the way down to 1 hp, but aron drops too! and don't forget poison heal gliscor as a solid aron counter...phil learned that one the hard way.

    edit: aron isn't a rodent you need a new acronym...i've got one

    a
    super
    shiny
    hella
    overpowered
    lethal
    enemy

    looks pretty good, if anyone wants to argue that aron isn't viable in ou i will take you on
  4. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
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    For Lavos Spawn:

    [BOX]F.E.A.R.: Focus Sash Endeavor (Quick) Attack Rattata

    alt. interpretation: Fucking Evil Annoying Rodent[/BOX]
    As for the analysis itself, don't forget to mention that Pokemon with Mold Breaker / Teravolt ignore Sturdy (although the only relevant mons that get those abilities are Hax / Cube).
  5. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    suggestions implemented
  6. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Replace Earthquake with Iron Head. Earthquake is retarded as things are immune to it.

    edit: Likewise...be Level 1. It's difficult enough to full health your way to life against non-full HP Pokemon at Level 1...Level 100? You'll never remain at 100%. If you are already Level 1, sorry, but that's not in any way mentioned.

    edit2: As anyone in #pokemon will tell you, I'm the babby expert, and have spent the last like 200 matches playing OU and Ubers with my team with Aron (and 5 other Little Cup Pokemon, but that's besides the point). Go with me on this one.
  7. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah i'm really not sure why i said eq, iron head is much better...i keep thinking it's lv100 and not lv1 i guess

    on a side note why is this loser posting in ou
  8. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    affirming Lavos's sentiments (attack changed)
  9. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I actually wonder if there might be a better move than Iron Head, one with a useful secondary effect. I mean it's going to do 1 damage anyway, right?
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    And what about Steel-, Rock-, and Ground-type Pokemon? Your bring them down to 1 HP with Endeavour, and the next turn you need to use either Iron Head or Toxic to kill them, meaning that Sturdy gets broken as they die. Next Pokemon beats you.

    Seeing as Gengar fully counters this set, and Jellicent is very troubling as well, mention that Scarf Tyranitar and Scarf Gothitelle are good partners.

    What is the purpose of Berry Juice?
  11. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    i'd include that while tyranitar does give you the sand, it also benfits aron by eliminating ghost-types with pursuit
  12. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    Is 0 HP necessary (since it will be 12 regardless)?

    I'd just mention the minimum damage Endeavor has to do to heal you back up.
  13. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    The Attack EVs actually do nothing extra against a Level 100 Pokemon.

    252 Atk Aron (+Atk) Iron Head vs 0 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 0.88% - 1.76% (57-114 hits to KO)
    0 Atk Aron Iron Head vs 0 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 0.88% - 1.76% (57-114 hits to KO)

    Both of these are 3-6 HP of damage (better than 1 damage at least!). Only enough to finish off a Sashed mon.

    It's still better than Swagger though imo and it lets you kill other Arons easier I guess

    EDIT: The calc said it was 3-6... I was using the one with masara in the url (I don't remember the official name)

    EDIT2: I used another calculator (Honkalculator) and it said it was 2-6 damage, and it said every hit would deal 2 damage except the max roll... now I'm confused. All I know is it is weak. Honkalculator also did not give a difference with any EVs.
  14. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Are you sure those are actually right? How does a pokemon deal between three and six points of damage? Surely if the max was 6 the min would be 6*0.85 = 5.1, so 5.

    edit@jukain - I'm fairly sure that calc is also not right. Looking at the damage formula I can't see how it can possibly deal more than 2 damage.
  15. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    252+ Atk (custom) Iron Head vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 6-8 (1.55 - 2.07%) -- 9HKO at best

    This is the correct calc (from Honko's). Swamp-Rocket is right; the EVs actually do absolutely nothing. However, in case you run into opposing Pokemon with FEAR, I suppose it could be helpful. For that reason, I'll leave them.

    It only works once, but it allows you to switch into the foe directly and take a hit, as Berry Juice heals Aron back up to full. While slightly gimmicky, it can definitely be pulled off.

    Other suggestions have been implemented.
  16. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    I've tested Aron extensively, and I've come to the conclusion that it requires too much support for what it gives. Versus rain teams, Politoed or Tentacruel can just go for a Scald burn and you're done. Aron itself provides no synergy for a team, meaning you have to rain a Sand inducer, a Spinner, and an Aron. You only have 5 Pokemon to check relevant metagame threats while being forced to run a spinner and presumably a Tyranitar.. it's just not worth it. Probopass at least gets Magic Coat to fuck with some leads and it isn't hard countered by Ghost-types. It can also set Stealth Rock efficiently which Aron cannot. In general, Aron is just a shitty Pokemon which just isn't good enough to earn an analysis. Sorry.

    qc rejected 1/3
  17. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    This is very situational, but it might be worth it to use Hidden Power Steel instead of Iron Head. Endeavor and Iron Head are contact moves, which can be messed with through certain abilities (Flame Body, Pickpocket, Effect Spore, Aftermath, Iron Barbs etc.). Hidden Power Steel is Aron's only non-contact move with perfect accuracy and no immunities (you get to pick from Mud-Slap and Rock Slide here) and gives you a chance to bypass these abilities. Very little use, but it's better to be prepared for anything when running Aron, no?
  18. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I see no reason to use Iron Head rather than HP Steel, so please change that. I think Body Slam is also a reasonable option for the para chance, but ghosts are immune to it which is a shame (if it hit gengar I would definitely use it).
  19. Lavos Spawn

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    bri, we're doing analyses on accelgor, liepard, and probopass...you really think by that standard that aron's not good enough to deserve an analysis? it's a part of smogon's history of nothing else, was used in one of the most hyped and anticipated battles in the site's history (and lost because of a poison heal gliscor, but that's beside the point). i mean aron almost always gets a couple kills if you do it right, and while it's true that it gets countered by a lot of shit there's also some really easy ways to make sure it does its job every single game, scarftar + tbolt starmie + aron is enough to guarantee a 6-0 vs a ton of unprepared teams so i really don't see what the big deal is. it's a hell of a lot better than freaking LIEPARD. and yeah hp steel way better than iron head, seems like the ideas keep flowing on this little guy. no more bad rejections please.
  20. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    Liepard doesn't restrict you to only 3 free Pokemon slots and provides something for a team. Just because Phil used it in a battle, which he lost, mind you, doesn't mean I should approve it. Degrading my rejection in such a childish manner isn't very appropriate for the forum. Breloom and Scald's prevalence makes Aron a subpar choice in a team, and it requires far too much team support to create an analysis encouraging players to use it. Thanks for your consideration.
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I am inclined to agree with brii. Probopass is a better user of this strategy, as it has a way to protect itself from status and can function even with SR up due to Protect and Leftovers. And yes Lavos, Liepard, Accelgor, and Propobass are actually better than Aron (which doesn't matter anyway).

    Unless i see some really good reasoning for this to go on-site i am going to reject this.

    Oh and still i don't get why Berry Juice is mentioned in AC. Heal once, kill a Pokemon and then what? You die, and all this support you put for Aron goes to waste? Berry Juice doesn't even deserve a mention in OO, as Aron needs Shell Bell if it wants to have a chance of being useful in a game.
  22. shrang

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    I personally think Probopass is worse than this, since if Aron hits you (and you're not sandstorm immune), you're dead. Probopass... doesn't always do that to the best of my knowledge. Anyway, I'm not a big fan of this either, but I think it has a niche enough to get an analysis. Riolu arguably needs more support than this (a million layers of Spikes, easily foiled by Protect and priority and Magic Bounce, etc etc), and we have an analysis for that.

    Just on the set itself, have you considered Roar as the last move? It works as a last ditch attempt to stop sweepers, or simply to stop things from using Substitute to block Endeavor (Endeavor will end up failing as soon as your opponent gets too low of HP but has a Sub, IIRC).
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Oh right shrang, Probopass can't immediately bring dow the foe to sandstorm killing range i forgot that. However, Probopass can still easily beat offensive Pokemon without Sub and Taunt, as long as they lack lefties, and even Taunt can be foiled by Magic Coat. Probopass can also hit Ghost-types with Pain Split on the switch (you shouldn't stay in as they all beat you 1 on 1). Finally the biggest pro of Probopass, imo, is Protect + Leftovers. This allows Probopass to function even with SR up, and beat every single offensive Pokemon withtout Sub or Taunt as long as sand is up, while Aron is useless when SR is up. This makes Probopass much less gimmick and much less team-reliant than Aron, making it more viable in general. To top it off, Probopass can use either of Taunt or Magic Coat to mess with Pokemon that could otherwise beat Aron, such as Pokemon immune to sand with reliable healing, and even with some that are immune to Toxic, and can also prevent entry hazards from going up. While Aron can bring down to low life Pokemon such as Ferrotorn, Skarmory, and Forretress, it can't really kill them, allowing them to set-up all over Aron. Combine this with Endeavour's pathetic 8 pp, and you will see that all those Pokemon beat Aron 1 on 1, but Probopass fares much better against them.

    But yeah it is true that Aron is the most viable user of the Endeavour strategy in OU, so it might deserve a set. Idk i am really torn, and i would like to see some meaningfull discusssion so i can judge better Aron's viability.
  24. Honko

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    For the record...the base damage is 2. Adding the random factor gives you a distribution of 1-2 (15 chances for 1, just 1 chance for 2). STAB is applied after that, giving you 1.5-3, but Pokemon rounds down on .5 making it 1-3. Type effectiveness is applied after that, making it 2-6.

    No matter what move or EVs a level 1 Pokemon uses, its attacks' base damage against a level 100 Pokemon will always be 2, so all that matters is STAB and type effectiveness.
  25. Lavos Spawn

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    aron hardly restricts you to 3 free pokemon spots, since one slot gives you a choice between ttar and hippo, and the other gives you a choice between any spinner, so it's really a take-your-pick scenario, not cut and dry like you try to make it out to be. i like the reasoning in your post, except there isn't any. all you say is that breloom and scald are common so that makes aron instantly unviable. first of all, breloom isn't exactly omnipresent and there's nobody saying i can't run gengar or xatu or something and just hard counter it. besides, loom survives for how long on average? like 2 turns after it switches in? big deal, you're weak to loom, so is half of the metagame. and might i remind you scald's burn rate is 30%? even if it does burn you still took one of your opponent's pokemon down to 1% health, and if sand's up they're dead. i'll go back to the liepard example if you really want me to - terrakion, tyranitar, scizor, garchomp, breloom, etc. are all really common and all give liepard loads of trouble, yet you're still justifying it being used in ou. we're pushing it through qc right now. are you telling me that a pokemon that, given the proper support, has the potential to sweep entire teams singlehandedly is better than a cat with prankster that can try and fail at parafusing random shit? and calling my degradation of your rejection "childish" actually just makes you look like the childish one. ad homenim doesn't hold up in c&c...i love you bri but you should know better.

    rejecting aron would be a mistake. unless we've suddenly heightened our standards for analyses tenfold, i'd say give the little guy a chance and drop the complaints until we at least get the analysis fleshed out more.

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