This thing can tank +2 Rockslide from a jolly Excadrill like it was nothing. I had to use 4 Rock Slides to kill that thing and got lucky that it was flinched enough, having no chance to recover.
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Pokémon Avalugg
- Thread starter alexwolf
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+2 252 Atk Jolly Leftovers Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 156-184 (39.59 - 46.7%) :)
+2 252 Atk Jolly Expert Belt Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 298-353 (75.63 - 89.59%) :|
+2 252+ Atk Adamant Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 354-421 (89.84 - 106.85%) :(
That doesn't really take away from Avalugg though, his job is tanking neutral hits like EQ and unboosted SE hits like bullet punch, not stuff like close combats and SD iron head.
I named my female Avalugg Titanic lol I'm so clever
But back on topic, Jellicent may be a good partner for Avalugg, but what does Avalugg offer in return? He's just as scared of Ghost and Electric-type attacks as Jellicent is (unless it happens to be Wild Charge), and I guess he can threaten Grass-types, but so long as they aren't using special moves. That's the greatest pitfall of Avalugg, I think. He requires a lot of support and doesn't offer a lot of support in return. If I really wanted a good partner for Jellicent, I'd use Chesnaught (resists Electric moves, is immune to Shadow Ball, and baits in Ice and Fire-type moves for Jellicent to switch into).
Which is one reason we are all demanding ice buffs.
That's taking it a bit far. If you're not using Rapid Spin, you shouldn't use it, and if you want to ensure hazards aren't down, you shouldn't use it, but if you want a middle ground - a highly effective check/counter to many physical threats, combined with an average spinner, which is valuable on pretty much any defensively leaning team - then it's definitely a viable choice.
Easy to overwhelm?!!
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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You said as a physical wall, not special :\ Also, Avalugg gets Roar.
Getting a bit silly now. You're assuming that you're facing down a boosted physical attacker, and you think Roaring it out for ~50% of Avalugg's health is a bad scenario? If you switch as the enemy Pokemon boosts, getting rid of it for such a relatively minor loss is a win, especially considering that the switch to Avalugg also insures you against the opponent attacking instead (which would ruin most revenge killers switching in). Boosters with Taunt / Magic Bounce will essentially never be relevant to Avalugg (Gliscor, Espeon and M-Absol are all hurt severely by its attacks, and only Espeon threatens to KO quickly in return).
So the best Avalugg set would be something like this?
Cap'n Crunch (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Roar
- Rapid Spin
- Crunch
Roar/Recover to wall physical attackers and Crunch to defeat spinblockers and Espeon (since Earthquake or Avalanche would leave it walled by Gengar/Aegislash/Trevenant).
But Crunch isn't very powerful, and even with 252 attack EVs it cannot cleanly 1HKO Gengar and Aegislash-Blade, and taking on Cofagrigus is out of the question. Would BlackGlasses be worth the lack of lefties?
Cap'n Crunch (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Roar
- Rapid Spin
- Crunch
Roar/Recover to wall physical attackers and Crunch to defeat spinblockers and Espeon (since Earthquake or Avalanche would leave it walled by Gengar/Aegislash/Trevenant).
But Crunch isn't very powerful, and even with 252 attack EVs it cannot cleanly 1HKO Gengar and Aegislash-Blade, and taking on Cofagrigus is out of the question. Would BlackGlasses be worth the lack of lefties?
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Ice STAB is better IMO. Roar would be better against Aegislash anyway since it can either Swords Dance up or King's Shield your Crunch down to nothing.
You're right, Avalanche would still do more if the opponent attacks,
I guess Avalugg is going to have trouble with Aegislash no matter what. King's Shield stops Crunch, its bulk and resistances stop Avalanche, Earthquake is out of the question on a mono-attacking set and Shadow Ball variants will 1HKO it after rocks.
I guess Avalugg is going to have trouble with Aegislash no matter what. King's Shield stops Crunch, its bulk and resistances stop Avalanche, Earthquake is out of the question on a mono-attacking set and Shadow Ball variants will 1HKO it after rocks.
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Avalugg shouldn't use Rapid Spin in a tier where there are infinitely better spinners and defoggers.
Avalanche+EQ has great coverage and lets Avalugg beat any physical variant of Aegislash with little trouble.
And Recover, and usable offensive stats.
Do we really have to go through this again? This is a ludicrous argument that keeps getting repeated - that because there are better ways to remove hazards, Avalugg shouldn't run Rapid Spin. Assuming that you're using Avalugg in the first place, the only relevant consideration is how best to use its 4 moveslots. Unless you already have a very reliable Spinner and/or Defogger on the team, Rapid Spin will always be one of the optimal choices for the moveset. If you think Avalugg has 4 better moves to run than Rapid Spin, feel free to argue that, but please nobody repeat this.
Vs almost any bulky team, any of Avalugg's attacking options also give them a free turn, but don't remove the hazards which potentially apply a huge amount of pressure to your team. Avalugg has very few coverage options; if we assume a set of Avalanche / Rapid Spin / Recover / EQ as standard, your only potential replacements for Rapid Spin are Roar (not particularly useful, since Avalugg is almost impervious to setup from physical attackers, and risks OHKO's from most special ones) and Mirror Coat (situational and risky). Essentially, Avalugg can't "expand it's coverage or ability to counter physical attackers", and in trying to do so it gives up an important support move. Yes, it can't make the best use of Rapid Spin against offensive teams (it's pretty good when facing stall), but it's still worth more than enough to justify its use.
What physical attackers can get away with boosting in front of avalugg? Conkeldurr? What are you ever going to need crunch for? Jellicient? If you're going to use this Pokemon, it just seems like you should be spinning with it because that's the best support it offers. The relevant attacking stat means that you aren't a forretress and that you aren't setup fodder just because you're a weak pokemon. Avalugg is actually slower than aegislash, so if you're healthy he doesn't have any business doing anything to you. The special variant had better ohko you with whatever it does.
As a phazer, avalugg kind of sucks because his typing doesn't force you to switch to any immediate answers. The things that want to switch into avalugg can usually just be killed by avalugg.
As a phazer, avalugg kind of sucks because his typing doesn't force you to switch to any immediate answers. The things that want to switch into avalugg can usually just be killed by avalugg.
Ffs. Your argument, basically, is that you need Roar > Rapid Spin to prevent the Fighting types you mentioned (plus other relevant Pokemon) safely boosting and sweeping. Well - first of all, over half of the threats you mentioned are 2HKO'd, or OHKO'd after some prior damage, by EQ / Avalanche. Second, if you get 6-0ed by sweepers if they manage to set up once, then your team is terrible. Sure, there's still value in Roar as an 'oh shit' button once your relevant walls have been worn down, but the majority of the time it won't be necessary, whereas Rapid Spin will be the best option virtually every time Avalugg can come in midgame. If you value Roar so much, btw, you can replace Earthquake or even Avalanche with it, depending on what you need Avalugg to beat, and I'd still take Rapid Spin over the secondary attacking option.
And I can't understand why you find it impossible to grasp the usefulness of Rapid Spin. Avalugg doesn't run it because it has nothing else to run, it runs it because it's a fantastic support move which Avalugg can put to reasonable use.
A set that worked well for me, although skipping the rapid spin use, came in handy.
Avalugg
Leftovers
adamant 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpDef
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Protect
- Earthquake
With the bit of investment that the SpDef ev's give him, he can soak moderate hits from the likes of greninja on switch-ins. His massive physical bulk still allowing for tanking M-Garchomp STAB E-qaukes, and more than enough Atk to come back with a OHKO Avalanche, or 2HKO EQ himself. The nature was sadly from what I grabbed leveling, but this is the exact set-up I used to great effect. If I were to put it in a more respectable manner I'd follow with a change to his nature solely- from Adamant to Careful. Protect being there for leftovers hoarding, or to help check and stall out in a possible hail setting or toxic from a prior 'mon before the switch-in. Attacking moves speak for themselves. Again, I'd definitely say he has a superb usage given proper support, not being the best wall out there with M-Venusaur roaming around the corner, but still fulfilling a solid role on an Ice team or just in a physical sense if going for a pure Impish (252HP/252Def/6SpDef) sense.
Avalugg
Leftovers
adamant 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpDef
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Protect
- Earthquake
With the bit of investment that the SpDef ev's give him, he can soak moderate hits from the likes of greninja on switch-ins. His massive physical bulk still allowing for tanking M-Garchomp STAB E-qaukes, and more than enough Atk to come back with a OHKO Avalanche, or 2HKO EQ himself. The nature was sadly from what I grabbed leveling, but this is the exact set-up I used to great effect. If I were to put it in a more respectable manner I'd follow with a change to his nature solely- from Adamant to Careful. Protect being there for leftovers hoarding, or to help check and stall out in a possible hail setting or toxic from a prior 'mon before the switch-in. Attacking moves speak for themselves. Again, I'd definitely say he has a superb usage given proper support, not being the best wall out there with M-Venusaur roaming around the corner, but still fulfilling a solid role on an Ice team or just in a physical sense if going for a pure Impish (252HP/252Def/6SpDef) sense.
Trick Room Reuniclus is an incredible ally for a curse set, and can also be used to absorb burn/poison/fighting attacks. Trick Room Reuniclus is so effective at ripping holes in teams, and Avalugg can clean up its garbage well.
My set is:
Avalugg @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 SPD
Sassy Nature (+SPD -SPE)
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
Ice/Ground is all he really needs for attacking. Avalanche/Trick room has obvious problems but his main job is to come in midgame, accumulate curse boosts, and blast off attacks. Avalugg really suffers from 4MSS, as I would love to carry mirror coat on this thing, but he needs everything here for my team. His awful SPD is buffed to a tolerable level with a +nature and EVS.
For EV's this seems to work for me, but I'm sure there is a more optimal tradeoff possible for HP/ATK. Also a nature that hinders SPA rather than SPE could be used if you think outrunning Ferrothorn/Escavalier/Other Avalugg without trick room is more important than with trick room (I prefer that it lets you grab a +1 Def before they hit)
I have found back to back Reuniclus + Avalugg is a checkmate machine. Going to try adding Bisharp into the mix for defensive synergy + utility inside and outside of trickroom.
*Just my two cents, but I really don't see any value in rapid spin on Avalugg. Ice + Ground + Rapid Spin seems to be a niche Donphan can fulfill better given Ice Shard priority and resistance to SR, and I always thought of Donphan as a poor spinner.
My set is:
Avalugg @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 SPD
Sassy Nature (+SPD -SPE)
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
Ice/Ground is all he really needs for attacking. Avalanche/Trick room has obvious problems but his main job is to come in midgame, accumulate curse boosts, and blast off attacks. Avalugg really suffers from 4MSS, as I would love to carry mirror coat on this thing, but he needs everything here for my team. His awful SPD is buffed to a tolerable level with a +nature and EVS.
For EV's this seems to work for me, but I'm sure there is a more optimal tradeoff possible for HP/ATK. Also a nature that hinders SPA rather than SPE could be used if you think outrunning Ferrothorn/Escavalier/Other Avalugg without trick room is more important than with trick room (I prefer that it lets you grab a +1 Def before they hit)
I have found back to back Reuniclus + Avalugg is a checkmate machine. Going to try adding Bisharp into the mix for defensive synergy + utility inside and outside of trickroom.
*Just my two cents, but I really don't see any value in rapid spin on Avalugg. Ice + Ground + Rapid Spin seems to be a niche Donphan can fulfill better given Ice Shard priority and resistance to SR, and I always thought of Donphan as a poor spinner.
It is to most. And if one of those switch in, just roar next turn.
I have been doing very well with an Avalugg/Reuniclus/Cofagrigus trick room core. The ability of these three to shut down megas is fantastic, although Pinsir has been a surprising nuisance. My Own Tempo curse/recover/avalanche/EQ Avalugg (EV'd and Nature'd for SPD mind you) stalled out a dynamicpunch Machamp.
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