1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Purimpopoie

    Purimpopoie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Has there been any research done in how Haze works in Rotation battles?
  2. Zebstrika

    Zebstrika

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    858
    You should probably change it to 257 turns, to prevent some confusion, because that would include the turns they defrosted, too (but the chances are correct).
  3. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    889
    Please excuse me for having to ask this, but the OP mentions nothing about the following:

    Was it ever truly confirmed that the "Fresh" set of rules were a hoax?
  4. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,324
    I would just like to confirm that Dragon Tail can be chosen by Sleep Talk. I made my Giratina fall asleep, and when Sleep Talk chose Dragon Tail, it KOed the wild Pokemon. Im unsure if the phazing part works, so I will test it again asap on something that wont die to Dragon Tail.

    Edit: Just tested it against the Elite 4, Dragon Tail does indeed still phaze when chosen via Sleep Talk.
  5. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,135
    yes.

    @ Death Phenomeno: What exactly do you mean?
  6. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
    I thought I had made this an official rule, but I'll make it clear now:

    I will be giving warnings to anyone who does not check the list first from now on.
  7. Screw-On Head

    Screw-On Head

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    108
    A though... Can unburden's speed boost be baton passed now?
  8. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,135
    You may also want to bold that rule so that it's more visible; this may aggrandize the amount of people that see it.

    Also, does Unburden have a message? It did in last gen shoddy but it never did ingame, IIRC.
  9. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    889
    There was a rumour about a Wi-Fi set of rules, supposedly called Fresh, that only allowed Pokémon bred & raised within the fifth generation to be used.

    Then there was the whole "Wi-Fi doesn't allow Gen. 4 TM's" misunderstanding, which several people, including myself, believed to be this new set of rules.

    But after that was cleared, nobody mentioned Fresh again. I'm pretty sure it was a hoax after all, but nobody ever really confirmed it.
  10. Rechi

    Rechi

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    176
    I read somewhere that after Meloetta uses Ancient Song to change into Step Forme in battle and then take it to the move deleter to get rid of Ancient Song it can stay in Step Forme permanently. Can anybody test this?

    *I don't remember seeing it here but if this has already been tested than just ignore this post*
  11. sensible

    sensible

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    188
    I used nitro charge and didn't get the speed boost. Is this due to the fact that it isn't 100% of the time? If it matters i used it against an opposing fire type.
  12. Zebstrika

    Zebstrika

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    858
    So if this is true, once changed, Meloetta will never change back?
  13. ShravanP

    ShravanP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    243
    This is from the OP. I have a suspicion regarding the "rounded up" part. Historically, all HP changes in Pokemon have been rounded down, without exception. The only post with numbers that is linked from the OP documents an even number HP for the wish user (404 Jirachi in this case). Can someone try this test using an odd number value for HP instead?

    I have a suspicion that Wish's formula might indeed round down Shedinja's Wish value to 0 but have a higher priority ingame mechanism override that answer with 1, sticking by the other long-standing rule of pokemon that all HP transactions must be at least 1.
  14. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,240
    Can a Pokemon use Magnet rise after hit by Knock Down? What if a Pokemon is hit by Knock Down and then uses Skill Swap to obtain the ability Levitate? What type does Tornelos (pure Flying-type) turn into after hit by Knock Down? If it is ???, does it get STAB on Struggle?
    EDIT: Do Flying-types still recieve STAB on Flying after being hit by Knock Down? (If the answer is yes then I suppose there's no reason to test if it gets STAB on Struggle).
  15. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,682
    Knock Down simply makes the Pokemon lose its immunity to Ground moves; it doesn't actually lose its Flying type completely. For example, if you hit Tornelos with Knock Down, it won't become the ??? type like it would if it used Roost.
  16. Zebstrika

    Zebstrika

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    858
    The damage formula rounds down, unless the damage would be less than 1, when it would round up to 1, so it may be the same with Wish.
  17. mien

    mien
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    702
    Tested with a Skill Link Cloyster holding King's rock using Spike Cannon on a Steelix.
    In 20 turns Spike Cannon flinched 11 times or 55% as such it's safe to say that each hit of a multi-hit move has it's own flinch rate with King's Rock.

    To test Stench i used a Wide Lens Yabukuron using Rock Blast 50 times on the same Steelix. Problem was that there is no item or move that always hits 5 times, so i noted all of them down separately.
    2 Hits: Flinched 2 times out of 15 or 13.3%
    3 Hits: Flinched 4 times out of 12 or 25%
    4 Hits: Flinched 2 times out of 9 or 22.2%
    5 Hits: Flinched 6 times out of 14 or 42.9%

    I suppose that these results confirm that for Stench each move also has it's own Flinch rate.

    Very interesting in this test is how many times i got 5 Hits in a row. 14 out of 50 times means a 28% rate, which is in sharp contrast with smogon's IV gen description that says those occur only 12.5% of the time.
    Could it be that the ratio has changed to 25% for all four, instead of 37.5% to hit 2 or 3 times and 12.5 to hit 4 or 5?
  18. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,968
    This may be important to test in-depth. It has some significant implications with the improved multi-hit moves, especially Technician Breloom.
  19. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,135
    I wouldn't suggest thinking this; if you look at your own data you also see that you hit 4 times in a row far less than the other times. My guess is small sample size, honestly...

    I guess the best idea would be a test with a Shell Armor cloyster with icicle spear, Rock Blast, and spike cannon with a wide lens.

    Thus through this you have the largest assortment of multi hit moves I think...

    Or at least the most 100% acc. ones so as to make your test easier.
  20. mien

    mien
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    702
    I didn't say that it was confirmed or even tentative, i just said it was a possibility. Also 9 out of 50 times is still 18% which is far higher then 12.5%.

    My plan is to do a test with one multi-hit move with 100% accuracy about 100 times to increase the sample size and see if i get a similar result.(If anyone else is willing to do the test as well please do so, as 100 may not be enough)
  21. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,168
    But doesn't it revert back to Voice Forme after battle? I guess it *could* work if it tried to learn a move after leveling up and you chose Ancient Song to be forgotten, though.
  22. R_N

    R_N
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,362
    I haven't heard that it reverts after battle.

    And, hey, if people are testing it may as well test:
    -Does the change still work even if used against a Pokemon with Soundproof, or a Ghost Type
    -Does she revert upon switching out, too?
    -If you delete the move, can you go back to the guy and learn it again like a normal move tutor?

    Last one could also apply to Keludio's Sword of Mystery, too.
  23. reaverz

    reaverz

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    307
    Actually, I've read that a pure Flying type using Roost becomes Normal-typed for the rest of the turn in Gen V. The likely reason being that the ??? type no longer exists within the game's coding in any way shape or form.

    I've read that it does on here and on other sites. But I guess it deserves a second check from someone with the game, just in case.
  24. mien

    mien
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    702
    I retested the hit ratio of multi-hit moves.

    Shellder using Spike Cannon on Steelix 100 times
    2 Hits: 30 times or 30%
    3 Hits: 34 times or 34%
    4 Hits: 11 times or 11%
    5 Hits: 21 times or 21%

    Wide Lens Yabukuron(same from last test) using Rock Blast 50 times on the same Steelix
    2 Hits: 20 times or 40%
    3 Hits: 15 times or 30%
    4 Hits: 4 times or 8%
    5 Hits: 9 times or 18%

    I suppose the hit rate has remained unchanged after all, guess my first test just deviated a lot from the actual rate.

    I confirm this, my hacked Torunerosu with Roost got super effective damage from fighting and was immune to Ghost moves during the turn it used Roost.
  25. MauriiDS

    MauriiDS

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    104
    I didn`t tested it but im pretty sure that if the attack does not hit there is no effect.

    Yes, (when Meloetta is in Step Forme) Meloetta`s forme will change again to normal (Voice Forme) when you switch out Meloetta, the battle ends, or you use Ancient Song again.

    Yes, if you delete the move you can go back to the places where they can learn their respective moves and "re-learn" them.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)