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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Tobes, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. shinylugia49

    shinylugia49

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    What do you guys think is the best type of team for the current meta? I've been having some success (if you consider a rating of 1650 somewhat successful) with a offensive rain team but want to see if something else is better.
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Offensive weatherless or sand, depending on if one uses Scizor or Tyranitar, then all one really has to do is pair them with pokemon that love the things they pursuit (Breloom or Landorus for example for Celebi). Its a very straightforward and simple team style which is very effective in the current meta.
  3. BKC

    BKC
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    offensive sand. it's the least matchup prone of all the playstyles and it's consistently dangerous. there really isn't a way to "counter-style" it like you would with rain/sun.
  4. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg contrary to popular belief, I do not bring the mosh
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    I've found sand stall(ish) to be much more dangerous than offense. With the standard offensive teams now it is nigh impossible to break through (damn jellicent). I decided to make one of my own just to see why there were so many around 2100 acre and they really do perform spectacularly, though it seems to be more prone to hax than an offensive team due to how vital rvery member is.
  5. George Eliot

    George Eliot

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    Typical sandstall gets utterly ruined by CBTar + Lando though and there isn't really a way around that. Every safe switch for Lando is SR + Sandstorm weak, or Pursuit weak. Agreeing that offensive sand is by far the most reliable in this metagame.
  6. shinylugia49

    shinylugia49

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    what keldeo set should i pair tyranitar and lando with?
  7. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg contrary to popular belief, I do not bring the mosh
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    The generally accepted is scarf.
    But expert belt with hp bug is also acceptable :)
  8. BKC

    BKC
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    keldeo is a lot scarier when it's capable of switching moves. hydro pump/surf | secret sword | icy wind | hp bug @ wise glasses is the best set. expert belt also works but i like the 10% boost to every attack rather than 20% to only the ones who are super effective.
  9. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    I feel CM,Surf,Secret Sword,HP Ice @Expert Belt is also a pretty good option on standard KelTarLando Sand Offense.This keldeo can 2HKO SpDef Celebi at +1 with SR up.This can ve pretty helpful since SpDef Celebi with Baton Pass gives this pursuiter+Lando cores trouble.
  10. FrostFire

    FrostFire
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    It kind of depends what you mean by 'best' I think. After being away from pokemon for a little while, I recently started laddering again and have gotten in to the 1900s with a sand balance team, which has proven itself to be fairly consistent. Of course, as others have said, it struggles to get past the Landorus-I--Tyranitar--Keldeo core. I've also had a lot of success with sand offense too, though I don't often play offense in general so I can't comment as much on this. What I can say though, is that balance/ offensive sand teams are the most consistent type of team on the ladder, and the least prone to match-up syndrome.

    Of course, rain is really threatening, but I find it's a bit more high risk/ high reward, and there are certain team archetypes that it just flat out loses to; for instance, sand stall basically cannot lose to rain stall. Sun is in the same boat; it's really effective against some teams (such as sun offense against rain offense without a trapper), but really struggles against basically any team with Dugtrio in it.

    So yeah. Tl;dr - Sand is more consistent; Rain and sun are powerful, but a bit more risky (rain being less risky than sun, naturally).

    But that's just what I think ;)
  11. deamontai

    deamontai

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    This meta is so blown open, each weather team has advantages and weaknesses depending on how you build it and how offensive and defensive you want to go. I'm really enjoying it. As for what the best team is, that shouldn't really be how we approach it. We all play differently, and like different things. I love offensive rain, it is so much fun to play. There are plenty of really powerful pokemon if you evaluate them in a vacuum, and a lot of wonderful strategies, but I don't think there is anything in OU right now that is unbeatable or that is objectively the best team. I say, just play what you know and tweak that as needed.
  12. Nyara

    Nyara

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    HO Dragon (for ladder and againt creative/random teams) and Stall Rain (for tourneys), the first doesn't have any real counter at all apart from Ferrothorn and relies heavly on luck and offensive pressure, but it surely works as hell most of the time, the second is a more "safe" option and can really stall almost everything, but it does have some small counters that can ruin in. Of course, I'm talking about well made teams, as for the general ladder I could just say Offensive Rain and end of the thread. Stall Sand and Offensive Rain also deserve a mention, the first can really works as hell, but it relies on match ups a lot more than Stall Rain, while Offensive Rain is more likely a balance between HO Dragon and Stall Rain, but it's more prone to match ups and still relies somewhat on the luck.
  13. George Eliot

    George Eliot

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    Honestly I feel like any playstyle which can't keep some kind of consistent offensive momentum isn't good at the moment. Between hax and the power of offensive threats, the less hits you have to take the better. Offense isn't the only way to accomplish this, but you need to be a skilled player to do it with a defensive team, which at least partially explains why stall is so much more common higher on the ladder.
  14. Ehrmantraut

    Ehrmantraut

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    I've been thinking and i came to realize that this is the first generation where i can't think of a definitive "king" of the metagame. RBY was Tauros, GSC was Snorlax, RSE was Tyranitar, DPP was Heatran. but who could possibly be considered the king of BW? feels like it would've been genesect had he not been banned.
  15. Gogeta

    Gogeta

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    There's been so much ridiculous broken shit this meta that nothing has stuck around long enough to be the true king.

    For me it would be Politoed, but I can see arguments for D-Nite, Terrakion and Keldeo too.
  16. Curtains

    Curtains

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    I agree that politoed is the king. He creates a metagame where you always need to have 2-3 water resist. He can run many successful sets and he gives unlimited support to his teammates via the power boost from rain.
  17. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    idk Scizor and Landorus are good bets too, or the common staples: Latias, Celebi, Keldeo, Jirachi.
  18. yee

    yee
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    Keldeo is by far the #1 pokemon in BW if you're looking for a king, Lando as #2, everything else clumped together at #3 imo. To put it simply, those two are the only two offensive threats that are so powerful that attempting to counter them with anything but more offense is putting yourself at a disadvantage. Keld don't need any help even from SR to break things like SpD Rotom-W /Tentacruel Amoonguss in rain, and Lando isn't countered in practice by things like Blissey / Rotom-W / Gastrodon etc. (even things like Milotic if you wanted to break out the most raw bulky water possible). By in practice I mean SR and sand damage factored in, which is every game if you want it to be basically.

    It almost completely limits your options for those two to those two mons we all know about. There's no such thing as running a random SpD Mew or Milo or something to tank two EPs from Lando, and there's no just using Tentacruel or Gyarados as your backup water resist for Keldeo (Gyara can't even set up on Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pump unless its basically max HP and no investment is just OHKOed by Specs Hydro after SR sometimes). If you have both of these two mons in BW2, you can't counter everything. It's said a lot but it is now the case that you won't be able to directly counter all of the top of the crop threats without relying on guesses / misses against at least one of them, which is different from the usual "this purposely built wallbreaker or uncommon set will pop up to get you once in a while".

    The reason Keld is at #1 with Lando #2 is mostly because Keld wins the questionable offensive threat speed war comfortably at 108 (Lati@s aren't on the same page power wise) and Lando joins Keldeo in that tier above things like Terrakion / Garchomp / Latios etc. in terms of ability to whoop ass. All of those 3 can just be stacked against on balance or stall to ensure that it'll be something besides them that beats you, and other threats like Thund and Volc are obviously less spammable than the top two.

    In case anyone wants clarity on what I mean by stacking, for any physical threat in BW2 the defensive power creep has probably outcreeped the offense. Lando-T / Quag / Tangrowth / Skarm and other physical walls will synergize with each other to the point where pure physical wallbreakers can't have an easy time against slow teams even if there's a lot of them; you have to resort to mixed stuff or different sets if you wanna try to beat stall teams (if there were any). For Latios it's sufficient IMO to just point out that Sand / Rain / Sun teams are there.

    tl;dr meta is permanently offense > defense, Keldeo and Landorus are better than everything else offensive + they are the only individual pokemon that are capable of causing this shift, and Keldeo is better than Landorus.
    Woodchuck likes this.
  19. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    i think keldeo is the #1 pokemon in terms of power, but politoed has been more influential. i am well aware of the sheer dominance of keldeo, but the fact is rain is still the second most popular playstyle (besides weatherless-lol), and this is nearly entirely enabled by politoed. i think it really comes down to politoed controlling the meta much more than keldeo does. both are influential, but politoed drastically shapes the entire metagame
  20. Ehrmantraut

    Ehrmantraut

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    meh, I don't really want to consider Politoed the king when it's not Politoed that's helpful. politoed's only call is drizzle. to see what I mean, compare Politoed's base stats to Milotic.

    Milotic has better stats all around except for the unused attack. not only that but Milotic learns Recover and can even phase with Dragon Tail. yet, Politoed is #3 right now in usage and Milotic sits at #104. why is this? well, it's because Politoed has Drizzle.

    not only that but normally when i think of a king, it's something you can fit on any sort of team and use it to get results. with politoed, you put it on your team and it's teammates get results. i guess you could argue for it since rain dominates, but i think this is the first generation where the king was banned in Genesect.
  21. indian

    indian

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    Scarf keldeo will be best. Tyranitar eleminates its and landorus' counters. Keldeo or landy sweep in return.
  22. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    generally it's cbtar + scarfdeo + uturn lo lando but you can switch it up a bit - i've seen scarftar + ebelt keld + rp lando work very well too. make sure you have a hard answer to stuff like gyarados though :)
  23. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Which Gyarados set would you recommend using as a check, Lavos? SubDD or just regular DD?
  24. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    All gyarados sets do fine just keep SR off the field
  25. BKC

    BKC
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    latios/latias are really common because they're solid checks to a lot of stuff and can hit very hard with a LO set. a steel is also mandatory, the most common are scarf jirachi/sd acro flying gem or cb scizor. the last slot is usually garchomp/terrakion, since they're very capable offensive threats that can set up sr.

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