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CAP 14 CAP 3 - Part 13 - Movepool Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by capefeather, Jun 4, 2012.

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  1. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP THE FORDS
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Show must go on, folks! Let's see them movepools! Yup, in this thread, YOU get to submit a FULL MOVEPOOL for Mollux! Exciting and scary stuff. However, there are limitations to what you can do! It's mostly in the movepool submission article. It should also be noted that there are lists of allowed and disallowed moves: attacking moves and non-attacking moves. In addition to this, there are limits of 75 total moves and 40 "Very Good Moves" (again, defined in the movepool submission article), as per this discussion. Submitted movepools must follow these guidelines to have a chance to be selected for the poll, and even then it's not guaranteed! Competition is fierce, yo.

    EDIT:
    (P.S. my submission does have Gastro Acid...)

    Mollux so far:

    [​IMG]
    Concept: Extreme Makeover: Typing Edition (open)



    Typing: Fire / Poison
    Base stats: 95 HP / 45 Atk / 83 Def / 131 SpA / 105 SpD / 76 Spe
    Abilities: Dry Skin / Illuminate
  2. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight A Knight for the Aegis
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    All of you may commence in making your pools. Remember, I have selected only a small pool of required moves, but obviously you should fill in the blanks with what you feel is necessary for flavor.


    If you're looking for Egg Groups to satisfy keeping Hurricane separate from Thunder: Fairy and Bug are both sufficient. Water 1 or Field can be done if you mess with some Dream World moves, but in general try to stick to those if you want to include both if your movepool. If you only want one, obviously go with whatever. The issue is concurrent legality, not existence.

    Finally, I'll reiterate what I said before about how I envision Mollux:

    Mollux is a bulky offensive pivot, not a sweeper.

    Mollux's combination of type and ability make it an excellent answer to most Rain teams, and outside of Rain its Fire STAB backed by 131 SpA keeps large portions of Sand teams at bay.

    Its ability to get free turns through its immunities to burn, poison, and water attacks, as well as its general bulk ideally situate it to set up hazards, remove them, or perform other light support duties for a team.

    Mollux has several forms of reliable recovery, allowing it to maximize its pivoting duties. It has small but specifically allowed and tailored coverage so that it can perform its duties. It has very few high-powered moves, however it has a several moves that are situationally useful, should movepool submitters choose to include them.

    Mollux is designed for pivot offense, not pure support.

    While it does have potential access to several support options, it is not an all-in-one supporter. It can be a cleric, it can set up a Light Screen, it can swap an item, it can spin, and it can set up a hazard - but it shouldn't be doing more than two of these functions on any set, and optimally only doing one.

    Mollux can strengthen its Special Defense more readily than its Physical Defense.

    While Mollux can burn with Will-O-Wisp or increase its defense with Acid Armor, our Threats Discussion mentioned specifically physical threats as the top adversaries to Mollux. As such it can set up using Calm Mind to enhance its Special Defense, use Charge, or set up Light Screen. Most of Rain is comprised of Special Attackers, and Mollux is thusly more adept at facing them.

    Now, you might disagree with my vision, but that's where I see Mollux going. It's not designed to set-up sweep, it's designed to use those defenses to pressure a certain playstyle using its type's resistances along with an ability to challenge the very foundations of that playstyle. How will Rain Stall (or even Rain Offense to a degree) adapt to a Pokemon built to tear it apart piece by piece? We'll find out.

    Let the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny COMMENCE!
  3. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    938
    Final Movepool
    Total Moves: 61 moves (37 very good moves / 24 flavor moves)
    VGMs (36)
    Offensive(17 moves):
    ”Offensive” (open)

    Acid Spray
    Eruption
    Façade
    Fire Blast
    Final Gambit
    Flame Charge
    Flamethrower
    Frustration
    Gunk Shot
    Heat Wave
    Hidden Power
    Lava Plume
    Overheat
    Sludge Bomb
    Sludge Wave
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt


    Supportive(20):
    ”Supportive” (open)

    Acid Armor
    Calm Mind
    Clear Smog
    Flame Charge
    Heal Bell
    Light Screen
    Moonlight
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Stealth Rock
    Substitute
    Thunder Wave
    Toxic
    Toxic Spikes
    Trick
    Will-O-Wisp


    Flavor (24)
    ”Flavor” (open)

    Acid
    Aqua Ring
    Attract
    Bide
    Charm
    Confuse Ray
    Double Team
    Fire Spin
    Flash
    Ember
    Explosion
    Gastro Acid
    Giga Impact
    Heal Pulse
    Helping Hand
    Hyper Beam
    Return
    Round
    SolarBeam
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Thief
    Venoshock
    Withdraw


    Obtaining:
    Level Up:
    ”Level Up” (open)

    Start – Bide
    Start – Ember
    4 – Acid
    9 – Withdraw
    12 – Acid Spray
    17 – Confuse Ray
    20 – Clear Smog
    25 – Lava Plume
    28 – Moonlight
    28 – Acid Armor
    33 – Heat Wave
    36 - Recover
    41 – Toxic Spikes
    44 – Inferno
    49 – Gunk Shot
    52 – Eruption
    57 – Final Gambit

    Egg Moves (Fairy/Field Group):
    ”Egg Moves” (open)

    Aqua Ring
    Charm
    Fire Spin
    Gastro Acid
    Heal Bell
    Heal Pulse
    Helping Hand
    Rapid Spin
    Trick
    Sleep Talk
    Stealth Rock

    TM Moves:
    ”TM moves” (open)

    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM42 Façade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM64 Explosion
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute

    Tutor:
    None

    Reasoning:
    ”Reasoning” (open)
    Hell’s bells, I really did not have much to work with here. Having rather minimal coverage, I was forced to give Mollux a plethora of supportive options, to help further support the team leader’s vision. The usual offenders for supportive pokemon are here, toxic, will-o-wisp, etcetera.

    I chose not to give Mollux Hurricane as I felt that it gave it unnecessary coverage which distracted from what else I could do with it. Ditto on octozooka, as this conesnail has no business threatening its checks and counters.

    What really interests me about what the final move pool that I settled on was though was the fact that Mollux becomes basically an offensive super-forretress, albeit one with very nasty weaknesses to compensate. It also gains a few neat tools that Forretress does not, as well as immunity to burns how about that shit.

    I imagine that Mollux will find its main niche here as a offensive spinner who can also set hazards, while at the same time remaining enough of a threatening presence with calm mind that failing to predict properly which set Mollux is running will result in the loss of yet another precious turn of momentum. Not only does this eff over a lot of stall teams, but it also gives Mollux utility on rain and sun teams as one of the few reliable spinners they can actually fit on their teams. Moreso for rain teams oddly enough due to the fact that they do not struggle with anything Mollux is weak to, thus giving it a odd synergy with rain.

    With his high powered STABs and great defensive movepool, I feel that Mollux will also serve as a great bulky offensive hazard setter / hole puncher / rain combater. I also gave it a fun little toy in the form of Final Gambit to play up on the whole element of surprise that Mollux brings to the table, as it has the HP and recovery to make it work.

    His final niche will be to completely shut down rain stall. I mean holy hell just look at it, it brilliantly counters rain stall in every way imaginable. For teams that suffer with rain stall, Mollux will be their homeboy.

    As to why I have more supportive moves then offensive moves, including some clerical ones: to ensure Mollux can fit onto as many teams as possible. Not every team is going to need stealth rocks, or poison spikes, or heal bell, or whatever else Mollux can whip up with the free turn from the switches he pulls. However, the combination of threats that Mollux can pull out, including even a Clam Mind surprise bulky sweeper set if the foe is not careful, allows it to overcome its poor typing to utterly excel and become a highly competitive member of the OU metagame, showing that it takes to be on top when your typing is horrible. True, what will kill it is fairly easy to predict, but what it will do to kill you will not be easily predicted until it makes a move.

    I would like to address, before the summary, the inclusion of both recovery and moonlight. While it might seem odd, it not only has flavor reasoning, but a competitive reasoning. Sun teams are really not going to like the damage that dry skin brings to the table, and morning sun gives them a way to not only benefit from their chosen weather condition, but also enables the continued use of dry skin with careful play.

    My move pool is set to enable Mollux to abuse his bulk and high attacks to serve as a detriment to the enemy team’s plans, as well as serving as a offensive/defensive pivot depending on his team’s needs. The level of power and utility Mollux brings to the table, I believe, will be just enough to salvage the crippling weaknesses that fire/poison brings. The fact that he is immune to both damaging statuses really, really helps him swap in and out of battle, something that he will have to do constantly, and helps make up for the fact that he is weak to the almighty stealth rock.

    In terms of flavor, I decided to go minimalist and only give it as much as made strict sense, rather then go nuts and give it a bajillion flavor moves, with the sole exception of Hyper Beam, which was added because hyper beam is the best move ok. There are a few hidden gems within its flavor move pool that might get used despite not being classified as VGMs, especially whirlpool, however I feel that for the most part its non-VGM pool is simply flavoring, with the 34 VGMs Mollux possesses being the only moves that will see much competitive use.

    Now, some of you might question the sanity of giving this thing frustration, round, façade, and rest, to which I reply – flavor. These four moves, as well as a few others, are present on nearly every pokemon in B/W as TM moves, so in order to as closely mimic a real pokemon as possible, it only made sense to include them in my move pool.

    At the end of the day though, Mollux is still going to heavily, heavily suffer from four move slot syndrome due to its inferior coverage. If it runs a hazard + spin set it will lack coverage no matter which move it runs, if it runs a pivot set it will have to trade between survivability and precious coverage, and if it runs a full out attack set it will have to rely on hidden power to score any serious coverage as fire/poison/electric isn't exactly great. I feel that this, in addition to its typing weaknesses, will keep it from being any sort of unstoppable juggernaut with the toys it has been given to play with. Mollux will be a great pokemon with this move pool, but make no mistake; it will be far from unbeatable. Mollux has several crippling weaknesses, but any trainer that can overcome them will be rewarded with a amazing pokemon with a movepool that makes other pivots blush.

    In closing, to address my level up movepool - it is based off of Snorlax. Having almost the same number of moves as Mollux, I felt like styling the levels after him made sense. Recover is as important to Mollux as Body Slam is to Snorlax, which is why it is the level 36 move. Other then that I just put it in a order that felt reasonable to have ingame (i.e. no shenangins like level 12 eruption). Also Final Gambit is my last levelup move because Final Gambit hehe.
  4. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    377
    As of June 9, this is my Final Submission.

    Total: 63 moves, 35 very good moves

    Level-Up Moves (21 moves (open)
    - Acid
    - Withdraw
    5. Incinerate
    8. Whirlpool
    11. Clear Smog
    15. Soak
    18. Poison Gas
    18. Venoshock
    21. Shock Wave
    25. Flame Burst
    28. Recover
    31. Acid Spray
    35. Acid Armor
    38. Lava Plume
    41. Poison Jab
    45. Aqua Ring
    48. Sludge Wave
    51. Overheat
    55. Zap Cannon
    58. Gunk Shot
    61. Wring Out


    TM/HM moves (32 moves not counting 5 repeats (open)
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Venoshock (Repeat)
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 Solarbeam
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave (Repeat)
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat (Repeat)
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM59 Incinerate (Repeat)
    TM61 Will-o-wisp
    TM66 Payback
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM84 Poison Jab (Repeat)
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    HM06 Dive


    Egg Moves (10 moves (open)
    Tickle
    Water Sport
    Haze
    Charge
    Rapid Spin
    Helping Hand
    Octazooka
    Stealth Rock
    Final Gambit
    Heal Bell


    Legal Egg Move Combinations (open)
    Tickle + Haze + Stealth Rock (Omanyte)
    Tickle + Water Sport + Helping Hand (Alomomola)
    Water Sport + Haze (Goldeen)
    Water Sport + Stealth Rock (Relicanth)
    Haze + Octazooka (Octillery)
    Charge + Heal Bell (Chinchou)
    Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock (Kabuto or Anorith)
    Final Gambit - no legal combinations (Basculin)


    VGM List (open)
    Acid Armor
    Acid Spray
    Calm Mind
    Charge Beam
    Clear Smog
    Facade
    Final Gambit
    Fire Blast
    Flame Charge
    Flamethrower
    Frustration/Return
    Gunk Shot
    Haze
    Heal Bell
    Hidden Power
    Lava Plume
    Light Screen
    Octazooka
    Overheat
    Payback
    Poison Jab
    Protect
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Rest
    Sludge Wave
    Solarbeam
    Stealth Rock
    Substitute
    Thunder
    Thunder Wave
    Thunderbolt
    Toxic
    Whirlpool
    Will-o-wisp


    Previous Edits (open)
    Edit 1 (6/2 9:26 PM): Just minor formatting changes.
    Edit 2 (6/2 9:44 PM): Dropped Feebas from the legal egg moves combination list (it was redundant with Omanyte).
    Edit 3 (6/3 1:49 PM): Major changes. Dropped Spikes after learning I overlooked it on the disallowed list (big thanks to Cretacerus for bringing it to my attention!) Replaced it with Stealth Rock, and as such I had to look through the egg combinations list again. Added Relicanth to that list for this reason, and expanded Marill to include Water Sport (lol). Finally, added Thief and Payback based on Deck Knight's list in post 6, and changed my numbers to reflect that.
    Edit 4 (6/3 2:21 PM): Egg combinations again. Dropped Marill after learning it can't have Tickle and Amnesia on the same set. Split up Relicanth; like Dragonite, it can learn all of the listed moves, but not on the same set. Added Ducklett.
    Edit 5 (6/3 4:52 PM): Realized I made a mistake in counting while editing the TMs earlier during Edit 3, which is now fixed and the count made more clear. Also realized I failed to count Facade as a VGM; this is also now fixed.
    Edit 6 (6/9 3:25 PM): Marked as a final submission; also made some major changes. Added Rapid Spin, Helping Hand, and Octazooka, took off Smokescreen, Hurricane, Amnesia, After You, and Mud Shot. Removed the Dream World section entirely; Thunder is now a TM, while Charge and Final Gambit are now egg moves. Changed the egg groups to Water 3 and Water 2.
    Edit 7 (6/9 3:41 PM): Whoops. Tentacool has its own legality issues and can't have Rapid Spin with Tickle or Haze, never mind both. Took it off the combinations list.
    Edit 8 (6/10 1:19 PM): Realized I left Amnesia on the VGM list, on which the count at the top is based. Both are now fixed.
  5. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,565
    Gonna try one here. Not final by any means unless it contains a well thought-out list of 75 moves, around 30 or so are VGMs.

    VGMs are marked with an asterisk.
    Note: Some VGMs (ex. Gunk Shot) are not marked, and some non-VGMs (ex. Octazooka) are, because of Mollux's stats and allowed moves.

    Level-Up (16/11) (open)
    Start Ember
    Start Acid
    Start Toxic*
    10 Will-O-Wisp*
    11 Sunny Day*
    15 Fire Blast*
    18 Acid Armor*
    22 Gastro Acid
    24 Calm Mind*
    25 Pain Split*
    35 Gunk Shot
    35 Octazooka*
    44 Flame Charge
    56 Sludge Bomb*
    59 Sludge Wave*
    100 Overheat*


    TM/HM (35/19 (open)
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM11 Sunny Day*
    TM16 Light Screen*
    TM17 Protect*
    TM18 Rain Dance*
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 Solarbeam*
    TM24 Thunderbolt*
    TM25 Thunder*
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave*
    TM35 Flamethrower*
    TM36 Sludge Bomb*
    TM38 Fire Blast*
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM47 Fling
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat*
    TM57 Charge Beam*
    TM58 Sky Drop
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-o-wisp*
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave*
    TM84 Poison Jab
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute*

    Note: Sky Drop is merely there for humor value, but if you guys want me to take it off I will.
  6. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight A Knight for the Aegis
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Messages:
    7,562
    Deck's flavor tips:

    OK folks, so we have a pretty high limit on moves.

    Let me just say that I pride myself on the "completeness" of my movepools. Which is to say, I study what the Pokemon of the types learn and incorporate those elements into my movepool. For your edification below, here are the moves that would generally occur on a fullly evolved Fire/Poison type:

    VGM: 11
    Moves: 27

    TM 06 Toxic
    TM 09 Venoshock
    TM 10 Hidden Power
    TM 11 Sunny Day
    TM 15 Hyper Beam
    TM 17 Protect
    TM 18 Rain Dance
    TM 21 Frustration
    TM 22 Solarbeam
    TM 27 Return
    TM 32 Double Team
    TM 35 Flamethrower
    TM 36 Sludge Bomb
    TM 38 Fire Blast
    TM 42 Facade
    TM 43 Flame Charge
    TM 44 Rest
    TM 45 Attract
    TM 46 Thief
    TM 48 Round
    TM 50 Overheat
    TM 59 Incinerate
    TM 61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM 66 Payback
    TM 68 Giga Impact
    TM 87 Swagger
    TM 90 Substitute

    This is a listing of typical moves. Not every Pokemon of the type has these moves, but a large majority of them do, and aside from competitive concerns, this should be your baseline for the TM portion of your movepools. You have plenty of play room here
  7. LouisCyphre

    LouisCyphre heralds disaster.

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,618
    Final Submission

    Alright, we're going to make this. I'm sticking strictly to the VGM list, so stuff like Return and Explosion count, even though we'd never use them. I've culled a couple of mandated moves from the above list, namely Thief and Payback. I constructed this before counting, so I'm going to stand by fluff like Struggle Bug rather than trim them to avoid appearing "bloated". It's more important to me that Mollux have several options for each "archetype" of move rather than to try and pidgeonhole it into specific sets.

    Primary Goal: Mollux as an offensive pivot that adapts to several playstyles
    Secondary Goal: Mollux as a customizable team member with several options for each move "type."

    Level Up (open)
    -- Leech Life
    03 Withdraw
    07 Acid
    10 Ember
    14 Rapid Spin
    17 Acid Spray
    21 Gastro Acid
    24 Flame Burst
    28 Recover
    31 Lava Plume
    35 Power Gem
    38 Toxic Spikes
    42 Aqua Ring
    49 Zap Cannon
    56 Eruption

    This wasn't so hard, I just put a STAB move every so often and then filled the blanks with neat supporting moves. Rapid Spin is learned by level because I want it compatible with everything. Same with Lava Plume, Recover, and Toxic Spikes. They're the lynchpin of so many sets that it's pointless to needlessly restrict them. Acid Spray as Mollux's main switch-forcing move, nailing slower switch-ins (not that we have a lot of those) with a fearsome ultimatum and buying turns to set up Toxic Spikes. That said, the venomous caltrops are Mollux's primary option for abusing free turns it may get.

    As a cutesy mon, the STABs and coverage in level-up remain either rather tame or outrageous, with no real middle ground. To that end, a jump is made from Lava Plume and Power Gem straight to ZAP CANNON!!!™ and Eruption.
    Breeding (Fairy / --) (open)
    Encore (Whimsicott, Audino, Togekiss, Plusle, Minun, Clefable, Jumpluff)
    Disable (Castform, Wigglytuff, Glalie)
    Stealth Rock (Blissey, Wigglytuff, Clefable)
    Hurricane (Whimsicott)
    Thunder (Raichu, Plusle, Minun)
    Soak (chain breed Azurill)
    Follow Me (Clefable, Pachirisu, Togekiss)
    Helping Hand (like everything in the egg group)
    Heal Pulse (Audino, Blissey, Cherrim)
    Heat Wave (Togekiss)
    Morning Sun (Cherrim)
    Charge (Plusle, Minun, Raichu, Pachirisu)
    Pain Split (Wigglytuff, Mawile)
    Heal Bell (Audino, Blissey, Clefable, Delcatty, Granbull, Wigglytuff, Togekiss)

    Legal:
    Helping Hand + Any other egg move
    Encore + Hurricane
    Encore + Thunder + Charge
    Encore + Heal Pulse + Heal Bell + Stealth Rock + Thunder
    Encore + Follow Me + Heal Bell + Heat Wave
    Disable + Pain Split + Heal Bell
    Soak

    Encore comes first, as Mollux's primary setup aid, forcing setup opportinues and easing prediction. Charge and Soak provide alternative switch-forcing moves, as does Acid Spray from level-up.

    Mollux has twin alternatives to Recover in Morning Sun and Pain Split. In sun, Morning Sun allows Mollux to recover roughly what Recover + Dry Skin would. Pain Split forms a more offensive recovery option, allowing Mollux to break down blobs and abuse Substitute outside of Rain.

    The doubles moves (including Heat Wave) are pure indulgence on my part (they are extremely frequent in the Fairy Egg group) and are part of my secret vendetta to undermine the sanctity of the CAP process. (One day I will have CAP Doubles...)

    Notable after editing is that Stealth Rock is illegal with Hurricane. It's a necessary evil.
    TM (open)
    04 Calm Mind
    06 Toxic
    09 Venoshock
    10 Hidden Power
    11 Sunny Day
    15 Hyper Beam
    16 Light Screen
    17 Protect
    18 Rain Dance
    20 Safeguard
    21 Frustration
    22 SolarBeam
    24 Thunderbolt
    27 Return
    28 Dig
    32 Double Team
    34 Sludge Wave
    35 Flamethrower
    36 Sludge Bomb
    38 Fire Blast
    41 Torment
    42 Facade
    43 Flame Charge
    44 Rest
    45 Attract
    48 Round
    49 Echoed Voice
    50 Overheat
    57 Charge Beam
    59 Incinerate
    60 Quash
    61 Will-O-Wisp
    64 Explosion
    68 Giga Impact
    70 Flash
    73 Thunder Wave
    74 Gyro Ball
    76 Struggle Bug
    83 Work Up
    84 Poison Jab
    87 Swagger
    90 Substitute
    93 Wild Charge

    Okay, this was fairly easy. The only real oddity is that my movepool does not learn Thunder by TM. A grave flavor transgression (egg move not also duplicated by TM, gasp!), but necessary to maintain separate Rain-aimed coverage.

    Mollux picks up mostly coverage and additional STABs from TMs: all of the moves one can expect to see used in an offensive capacity are here. A couple of flavor moves like Explosion, Struggle Bug, and Gyro Ball weasel their way in. I figure anything that can shoot lightning can also Wild Charge, so that stays.

    Mollux also gets a couple of new toys to pick up on opponent's switches, namely Safeguard, Light Screen, Substitute, and weather moves. For forcing switches, the infuriating Torment rears its head to give stuff like Jellicent aneurysms. Never fear, as a tormented Gliscor can alternate Protect just as well as Mollux can (and perhaps better!), and a tormented Landorus can just obliterate Mollux with Stone Edge instead of Earthquake. The only check Torment significantly hampers is Terrakion, but fuck Terrakion. Let him run CloseEdgeQuake if it bothers him so badly, if Mollux is devoting a moveslot to hate Terrakion then the musketeer is doing his job.

    Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Thunder Wave form a trifecta of obnoxious status to take out a check here, and a check there, without any of them destroying all of our counters. And if someone starts stacking up on status moves, Mollux's rain-check niche falls to pieces and they end up with a rather underwhelming mon. No reason to restrict any of these.

    Calm Mind is Mollux's sole boosting option beyond Flame Charge, and it's revenged by a lot of cool stuff like everything on our counters list. Given support, it can clean out certain teams, but most players would rather have Mollux give support, more likely than not. It makes Mollux even more of a nightmare for Rain Stall, though, which is nice.

    Swagger is here to rep Molly's mad swag. Quash and Incinerate are part of my crazy doubles vendetta.


    Total
    33 VGMs
    72 Total Moves

    Mollux's main STABs
    Fire Blast / Overheat / Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave

    Mollux's primary coverage
    SolarBeam
    Thunderbolt / Thunder (ex. Hurricane)
    Hurricane (ex. Thunder)
    Power Gem
    Hidden Power

    Mollux's switch-forcing moves
    Acid Spray, Encore, Soak, Torment, Charge

    Mollux's switch-abusing moves
    Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Heal Bell, Light Screen, Calm Mind, Substitute, Safeguard, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Aqua Ring.

    Mollux's recovery options
    Recover, Morning Sun, Pain Split

    Mollux's status moves
    Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Thunder Wave

    Random Shit™
    Explosion, Zap Cannon, Dig, Gyro Ball, Struggle Bug, doubles moves

    Conclusion
    All in all, I focused on switching Mollux in, forcing opponents out, and doing something to help the team. That thing could be shooting the opponent really hard, or it could be some assistance like a screen or a hazard. I gave Mollux a range of ways to stay healthy and do its job, a fair bit of coverage to slap Rain around, and several ways to force its own switches in a pinch. Hopefully, this helps meet a certain vision and let Mollux hold its own in a competitive OU match.
  8. capefeather

    capefeather YOU CAN'T STOP THE FORDS
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,866
    All right, I've been making this movepool since the stat limit thread and I'm banking on being the most realistic movepool of the bunch. By making that claim, I suppose I obligate myself to examine all the other movepools closely to uphold it and acknowledge exceptions. Finding no other movepool that quite does all of what I have done for the sake of realism, I now present my Final Submission!

    But FIRST:

    Defining "precedent" (open)
    In the following, an attribute X represents one of the Pokémon's types or abilities. (Yes, I'm using "Ability-Move" limitations in lieu of Move-Move limitations.)

    A move has strong precedent with X if the following is true: If at least two Generation V Pokémon have X, then all G5 Pokémon with X have the move. Otherwise, all Pokémon with X have the move. For example, Toxic has strong precedent with Poison-types in the level movepool.

    A move has (normal) precedent with X if the following is true: If at least one G5 Pokémon has X, then at least one G5 Pokémon with X has the move. Otherwise, at least one Pokémon with X has the move. For example, Lava Plume has normal precedent with Fire-types in the level movepool. Unlike strong precedent, by "having a move" I mean having the move with the same STAB status. For example, Jynx having Ice Beam does not count toward Ice Beam having precedent because Jynx has STAB on it and Mollux doesn't. Usually, when I say "normal precedent", I am excluding strong precedent.

    A move has weak precedent with X if at least one G5 Pokémon has X and at least one Pokémon with X has the move. Usually, though, when I say "weak precedent", I am excluding normal precedent. For example, Torkoal has a bunch of moves that therefore have weak precedent with Fire-types.

    This movepool has all moves that have strong precedent with any of its types or abilities. It also includes moves that have normal precedent, and a few with weak precedent (though I tried my best to avoid weak precedent unless necessary). This is my main basis behind any flavour arguments that I make.


    And now the actual stuff:

    VGMs (open)
    Acid Spray
    Aromatherapy
    Brick Break
    Calm Mind
    Confuse Ray
    Earthquake
    Eruption
    Fire Blast
    Facade
    Flamethrower
    Hidden Power
    Iron Defense
    Lava Plume
    Light Screen
    Overheat
    Payback
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Rest
    Return
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Sludge Bomb
    Sludge Wave
    Stealth Rock
    Stone Edge
    Substitute
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt
    Thunder Wave
    Toxic
    Trick
    Will-O-Wisp


    Level (open)
    + VGMs
    ! Repeated moves

    01 Withdraw
    05 Ember
    08 Poison Sting
    11 Bide
    +14 Confuse Ray
    17 Fire Spin
    +20 Acid Spray
    23 Flame Burst
    +26 Iron Defense
    +29 Thunder Wave
    32 Gastro Acid
    +35 Lava Plume
    +38 Toxic
    41 Final Gambit
    +44 Recover
    +47 Eruption

    Confuse Ray has strong precedent with Illuminate, and Toxic has strong precedent with Poison. Thunder Wave has strong precedent with Illuminate in TMs, but it's here for different reasons (see below). Withdraw and Recover have weak precedent with Fire. The rest have normal precedent.

    This level movepool is largely a mirror of Gyarados's. (Yup, might as well admit it, since Mollux kinda lacks a good sweeping move in the first place, except maybe Calm Mind, but I wanted to avoid putting a TM setup move in here.) This means that certain level slots have a lot of meaning to them. (I actually wanted to put Withdraw, Poison Sting and Rollout into pre-evo only, but considering we haven't even decided on that, they're here as a natural extension.) Where Gyarados has Bite -> Ice Fang, Mollux has Acid Spray -> Gastro Acid. Dragon Rage becomes Flame Burst, Aqua Tail (the only really good attack Gyarados gets in level) becomes Lava Plume. Rain Dance is replaced by Toxic rather than Sunny Day because it just seems weird to me that a Dry Skin user would have Sunny Day in level. Eruption isn't quite equivalent to Hyper Beam since it's STAB, but other than being a funny move competitively, it's just a really awesome move to go out on imo.

    Thunder Wave is kind of a jab at the art concept. Cone snails are predatory and paralyze their prey with venom, while lava lamps obviously run on electricity. Thus, Mollux paralyzes its prey with electricity :P The nearby moves also play on the trend; this Mollux gets a lot of immobilizing moves. I'm aware that Thunder Wave could be seen as a distraction from the TL's vision, and I'm also aware that people might get leery because Mollux sits at a VERY specific speed tier. I argue that this is not something that will make a supporter more lucrative than an attacker, but rather will merely provide more freedom for the supporter role. The existence of Lava Plume and Recover, free of illegalities, facilitates this by limiting support Mollux's effective free moveslots to two, and the most relevant moves for these imo are (as we'll see later) a coverage move, Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, Toxic, Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp. Thunder Wave only tightens the competition for these moveslots, and I think it would be interesting to see if it would win out over other very good options.

    I wanted to avoid physical moves on this level movepool other than Poison Sting, so I decided to solve a different problem instead. People tend to remember the Shell Smash supporting pic and think it's a shame that it won't come to be. Additionally, Explosion seems great on Mollux, except it has 45 Base Attack. This is exactly why Final Gambit is so perfect. It keeps the suicide aspect while going off the relatively good 95 Base HP (Victini has 100, for reference) rather than the pitiful Attack. PLUS I can totally see Mollux ejecting all its fluid in a dynamic explosion as a last, desperate attack on the enemy.

    This leaves the Level 44 slot. Dragon Dance is pretty much THE defining non-attacking move on non-Choiced Gyarados. It's only fitting that a move that will be similarly defining for Mollux should be on the Level 44 slot. This is where Recover comes in. Mollux turns from blah to BAMF with Recover. I even broke normal precedent to get it here (still weak precedent). It's going to be sweet.


    Unrepeated moves: 16
    Unrepeated VGMs: 8

    Machines (open)
    + Unrepeated VGMs
    * Moves that DO NOT have strong precedent
    ! Repeated moves

    +*04 Calm Mind
    !06 Toxic
    09 Venoshock
    +10 Hidden Power
    11 Sunny Day
    15 Hyper Beam
    +*16 Light Screen
    +17 Protect
    +18 Rain Dance
    21 Frustration
    22 SolarBeam
    +24 Thunderbolt
    +25 Thunder
    +*26 Earthquake
    +27 Return
    *28 Dig
    +31 Brick Break
    32 Double Team
    +*34 Sludge Wave
    +35 Flamethrower
    +36 Sludge Bomb
    +38 Fire Blast
    *41 Torment
    +42 Facade
    *43 Flame Charge
    +44 Rest
    45 Attract
    46 Thief
    48 Round
    +*50 Overheat
    59 Incinerate
    +61 Will-O-Wisp
    +66 Payback
    68 Giga Impact
    70 Flash
    +*71 Stone Edge
    !73 Thunder Wave
    87 Swagger
    +90 Substitute

    Not much to say here. This is also largely a mirror of Gyarados's stash, though a lot is missing due to lack of precedent and a lot is added due to strong precedent. Plus, none of the HMs made sense (Surf isn't allowed). The notable * moves are Calm Mind, Light Screen, Sludge Wave, Torment and Overheat. I'm not sure if Torment is considered competitive here, so if this potentially disqualifies the movepool, I'll be glad to remove it. Sludge Wave and Overheat are kind of obvious, while Calm Mind is I suppose a decent attempt at setup. I'd still probably prefer Specs over it any day, though. Still, it's worth a shot.

    I suppose I should talk about Thunder here as well. It has strong precedent with Illuminate, which is mainly why I prefer it over Hurricane. That and I didn't want to do some kind of illegality bs with a TM. Thunder vs Hurricane shouldn't make too much of a difference competitively imo. I mean, either way you have a rain-only 120, and with Thunder you smack the Waters really hard. Should be fun.


    Unrepeated moves: 37
    Unrepeated VGMs: 22

    Breeding (open)
    Egg groups: Bug / Mineral
    +Aromatherapy (Parasect)
    +Rapid Spin
    Rollout
    +Stealth Rock
    +Trick (Volbeat)

    Rapid Spin + Rollout + Stealth Rock is the only legal combination (Forretress), since Aromatherapy can only be gotten with Mollux's good penpal Parasect (they're scary similar in flavour, now that I think about it), while Trick can only be attained through Mollux's secret lover Volbeat. Trick could have combined with Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin if Claydol could actually breed, but this is just how things are. I've concluded that Bug and Mineral are the best egg groups for Mollux. It's hard to assign egg groups in the first place because egg groups for snails are all over the map (Magcargo's Amorphous... wtf??). I went Bug because of the not-Magcargos (e.g. Shuckle, Escavalier) and Mineral as a reference to the "glass" shell. Maybe if we did a pre-evo it could be a rocky/sandy shell! Anyway, the illegalities shouldn't be terribly important in battle, but it divides up the support roles pretty nicely so whatever.

    The main reason I've stuffed these moves here is that they have merely weak precedent. Rollout has strong precedent with Poison, but some have it in breeding (I guess with good reason) so it's here, too. That said, they're very important to me competitively (I guess Aromatherapy isn't terribly important but it's a cool option). Mollux could potentially be a very good Rapid Spinner since it does extremely well against OU's spinblockers (e.g. Gengar, Jellicent). It's also very likely to cause switches, making Stealth Rock and Aromatherapy potentially really appealing. Trick I was kind of worried about because of Balloon Heatran, but with all the moveslot syndrome going on it should be fine.


    Unrepeated moves: 5
    Unrepeated VGMs: 4

    Now, some of you have expressed to me and others that you would like Sweet Kiss. Unfortunately, I could not fit Sweet Kiss anywhere in level/TM/HM/breeding. However, I do have one option left:

    Event (open)
    Golden Week Mollux

    Lv 1 Mollux @ Heat Rock
    OT: CAP
    ID: 32648
    Ribbon: Classic
    Ability: Illuminate
    IVs: Random
    Nature: Random

    Sweet Kiss

    Some of you may protest that Golden Week was a month ago (it was still during this project), or that if Nintendo wanted to release events during Golden Week they would have done it every Golden Week. Well, TOO BAD! Let me be a little bit unrealistic just this once! ;)


    Unrepeated moves: 1
    Unrepeated VGMs: 0

    Total unrepeated moves: 59
    Total unrepeated VGMs: 34

    Good luck to all submissions!
  9. ZhengTann

    ZhengTann Nargacuga
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,158
    Submission Draft

    Exactly how prepared are you, Nyt? :P
    Anyway here goes mine:-

    EDIT: June 6th - Changed Leer to Sweet Scent in Level-up Moves. Added lore about sweet scent in the flavour section.
    EDIT: June 7th - Removed Whirlwind from the movepool, thus declining Mollux the role of a phazer. Change Heal Bell to Aromatherapy for better flavour, removed the tutor moves' list altogether and shuffled the tutor moves into egg and level-up movelists.
    EDIT: June 8th - Added legal and illegal egg move combinations. Added Struggle Bug, Double Team and Dig as TM moves. Buffed up my competitive reasoning essay.
    EDIT: June 10th - Trimmed the VGM list according to equivalence (Return = Frustration). Added a Calm Mind Mollux moveset. Buffed up my flavor essay. Shuffled a few choice moves in the level-up list.

    Final Submission

    69 Moves total, 40 VGMs (as per the lists)
    (VGMs in bold, repeated VGMs in bold italics)


    Level-up Moves (10 VGMs (open)
    1 - Wrap
    1 - Sweet Scent
    1, 5 - Acid
    1, 7 - Coil
    9 - Mud-Slap
    11 - Leech Life
    13 - Tickle
    16 - Acid Spray
    19 - Whirlpool
    22 - Acid Armor
    25 - Mud Shot
    30 - Flame Charge
    33 - Clear Smog
    36 - Power Gem
    39 - Poison Jab
    46 - Lava Plume
    50 - Sludge Bomb
    54 - Wring Out
    62 - Gunk Shot
    66 - Eruption


    TM/HM Moves (21 non-repeated VGMs (open)
    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM09 - Venoshock
    TM10 - Hidden Power

    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM16 - Light Screen
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance

    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - Solar Beam
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Sludge Wave
    TM35 - Flamethrower
    TM36 - Sludge Bomb
    TM38 - Fire Blast
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Flame Charge
    TM44 - Rest

    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Round
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM59 - Incinerate
    TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM76 - Struggle Bug
    TM83 - Work Up
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM05 - Waterfall
    HM06 - Dive


    Egg Moves (open)
    Final Gambit - Bug
    Heat Wave - Bug
    Aromatherapy - Bug

    Signal Beam - Bug
    Trick - Bug
    Stealth Rock - Bug / Water 3
    Rapid Spin - Bug / Water 3
    Gastro Acid - Bug / Water 3
    Aqua Ring - Water 3
    Amnesia - Water 3
    Recover - Water 3

    Toxic Spikes - Water 3


    Breakdown:

    Categorized by competitive value (open)
    VGMs:-
    Acid Armor
    Acid Spray
    Amnesia
    Aromatherapy
    Calm Mind
    Clear Smog
    Coil
    Eruption
    Facade
    Fire Blast
    Flame Charge
    Flamethrower
    Frustration
    Gunk Shot
    Heat Wave
    Hidden Power
    Lava Plume
    Light Screen
    Overheat
    Poison Jab
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Rest
    Return
    Signal Beam
    Sludge Bomb
    Sludge Wave
    Stealth Rock
    Substitute
    Thunder
    Thunder Wave
    Thunderbolt
    Toxic
    Toxic Spikes
    Trick
    Venoshock
    Waterfall
    Will-O-Wisp
    Work Up

    NCMs:-
    Acid
    Aqua Ring
    Attract
    Dig
    Dive
    Double Team
    Final Gambit
    Flash
    Gastro Acid
    Giga Impact
    Hyper Beam
    Incinerate
    Leech Life
    Mud Shot
    Mud Slap
    Power Gem
    Rock Smash
    Round
    Solar Beam
    Struggle Bug
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Sweet Scent
    Thief
    Tickle
    Whirlpool
    Wrap
    Wring Out


    Categorized by move nature (open)
    Fire STAB offensive moves:
    VGM - Eruption, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Lava Plume, Overheat
    NVM - Incinerate

    Poison STAB offensive moves:
    VGM - Acid Spray, Clear Smog, Gunk Shot, Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Venoshock
    NCM - Acid

    Coverage offensive moves:
    VGM - Facade, Frustration, Hidden Power, Return, Signal Beam, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Waterfall
    NCM - Dig, Dive, Final Gambit, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Leech Life, Mud Shot, Power Gem, Rock Smash, Round, Solar Beam, Struggle Bug, Thief, Whirlpool, Wrap, Wring Out

    Team support moves:
    VGM - Aromatherapy, Light Screen, Rain Dance, Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, Trick
    NCM - Gastro Acid, Sunny Day

    Defensive moves:
    VGM - Acid Armor, Amnesia, Calm Mind, Coil, Protect, Recover, Rest, Substitute, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Work Up
    NCM - Aqua Ring, Attract, Double Team, Flash, Swagger, Sweet Scent, Tickle


    Notable fathers and love-cheaters (open)
    Some relevant combinations:

    Parasect - Aromatherapy
    Volcarona – Heat Wave
    Volbeat – Trick, Signal Beam
    Forretress – Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock
    Galvantula –Signal Beam, Gastro Acid
    Shuckle – Final Gambit, Gastro Acid, Stealth Rock
    Tentacruel – Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Aqua Ring
    Cradily – Amnesia, Recover, Stealth Rock
    Corsola – Aqua Ring, Recover


    Illegal VGM combinations:

    Recover/Amnesia + Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin
    Aqua Ring + Stealth Rock
    Trick + Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin/Stealth Rock


    Reasoning time:

    Competitive Vision is Competitive (open)
    My take on Mollux's moverpool focuses on it being a simple, semi-aquatic cone snail. No superstitions, no hocus-pocus magic, just a cute new species discovered by the CAP community. As such, Mollux learns moves associated with its hydrostatic limbs (Coil - Wrap - Wring Out or Mud Slap - Mud Shot), the poisonous fluids stored in its cone (Acid - Acid Spray - Sludge Bomb - Venoshock), as well as potential chemical actions may can take place due to interactions of said fluids with the environment (Flame Charge - Eruption or Thunderbolt - Thunder).

    In my Level-Up list, I separated Mollux moves into 5 stages. The earliest stage has Mollux learning moves every 2 levels, up until level 13 (Tickle), where the transition is instant to learning new moves every 3 levels. After level 25 (Mud Shot), Mollux gets a 5-level transition gap before repeating the 3-level increment pattern until level 39 (Power Gem) due to increase in power level. The same thing happens at levels 46 (Lava Plume) to 54 (Sludge Bomb) in 4-level increments. Finally, Gunk Shot and Eruption are learned after the last and longest transition period of 8 levels, as the cone snail's ultimate (exaggerated much?) moves. Even though Mollux's typing is Fire/Poison, looking at my submission you'll notice that the majority of its level-up moves are Poison-types, with Fire-types mostly obtained via TMs. This is due to my own flavorful reasoning, which is composed in the hide-box below this one.

    Mollux gets to pick up some rather flavorful coverage as it levels up, but the majority of its coverage will be provided by TMs. I declined to give Mollux any form of Water-type coverage, as I feel Electric-type attacks are adequate enough to provide offensive coverage alongside Hidden Power and the aforementioned flavor moves (Fire/Poison/Electric provide neutral coverage to every monotype, which serves Mollux well enough). Mollux gets Waterfall and Dive as HMs, but with 45 base Attack stat it won't be competitively viable, and I included specifically for the flavor only. Solar Beam is available should there be competitors who wanted to run Mollux in the sun, but basically I would expect mostly Fire/Electric/Poison/Filler for most attacking Molluxes.

    Egg Moves are where Mollux really shines as the offensive team support, since it will be where Mollux receives spinning, entry hazard moves, and even recovery. I picked Bug and Water 3 because competitively, it provides all the necessary combinations I had in mind (entry hazards + spinning, for example). Flavor-wise, its a no-brainer - Mollux is a cone snail, an invertebrate adapted to a mostly aquatic habitat. I don't see an issue about Mollux competing with Forretress - both are immune to Toxic Spikes, and each has different advantages to offer, with Forretress being much better at physical defense by virtue of typing and stats, whilst Mollux brings Burn immunity and good special bulk onto the table.

    STAB-wise, Mollux is spoilt for choices - with Flamethrower / Lava Plume / Fire Blast / Eruption, or Acid Spray / Clear Smog / Sludge Wave / Venoshock, for example, the argument for each individual trainer would be basically revolve around power versus accuracy versus secondary effects. Without a doubt, each competitor will be able to find suitable moves tailored to his/her playtest team. Coverage-wise, a few choice moves aside from Electric-types includes Mud Shot (which, by the way, allows Mollux to cleanly 2HKOes Terrakion and Heatran without Choice Scarf or Air Balloon on the switch), Power Gem, Signal Beam - all of which are often deemed competitively nonviable, yet could work given Mollux's amazing base 131 Special Attack and good prediction skills on the player's part. Nevertheless, even with neutral coverage, Mollux will be forced to make a hard choice, as I agree fully that it suffers from 4 Move Slot Syndrome.

    Flame Charge, Calm Mind, Amnesia and Acid Armor are on my movepool because it gives Mollux a chance to setup against a weakened team and pull off a comeback, or at least give a headache to teams that lost their methods to threaten Mollux effectively (giving more emphasis to "Bulky Offense" rather than "Pivot" in this case). Its a given that the difficulty to achieve this scenario approaches impossibility, not to mention that it cripples Mollux further by eating up a much-needed moveslot, but in my mind, it would somewhat be akin to a Dragon Dance Haxorus sweep against a mono-Steel team - that incredibly satisfying feeling when you pull it off successfully after a grueling trial.

    Defensively, Mollux can run a variety of supportive roles, including setting up hazards, spinning, and status spreading. Yet, 4MSS continues to haunt the cone snail - it simply does not have the defensive statspread to be as effective as, say, Blissey in terms of pure support, and attempting to run multiple roles - being a glue Pokemon - won't be doing Mollux justice. In a coneshell, Mollux movepool is close to borderline bloated to me, even though it will probably end up very similar to some other submissions.


    Storytelling Time Yay (or flavor if you still have not gotten the gist) (open)
    Level-Up moves basically charts Mollux growth process (not counting pre-evolutions) in a flavorful context. Upon hatching, Mollux' primary weapons are weaker acids that its newborn body can produce and control, as well as its flexible tentacles supported by its hydrostatic skeleton (correct me if I'm wrong, its been a long time since I worked my way through biology). The aforementioned acids in a newly hatched Mollux are not potent enough to harm or scare away other inquisitive or predatory Pokemons, but the scent it emitted is enough to induce an effect much like alcoholic intoxication in humans. Feeding by sucking the fluids of its food via its harpoon, Mollux nevertheless fights back adversity using its appendages, slapping mud around to confuse its predators before making its quick escape by diving into nearby waterholes, where it can lie submerge for hours at a time, hidden underneath the riverbeds/seabeds.

    As time passes by, Mollux's growing body began to produce more potent acids as a by-product of its diet, thus explaining why cures on specific individual Mollux would not work on another, as well as individual Mollux's immunity to its own toxins only. There are even Molluxes whose cone-shells store fluids that were not entirely detrimental - sightings have been reported of certain individuals using the said toxins as a coating to aid in recovery, much like a healing balm. However, all Mollux strangely achieves the same end result - their cone shells holding the toxins glowed whenever it is required, due to instantaneous combustion. Over time, the more intelligent individuals began to learn how to channel and direct those flaming toxins at their opponents, adding another potent weapon in their arsenal. Molluxes that adventured with trainers seem to adapt to flame-wielding more readily, which perhaps can be explained by exposure to environments vastly different from its semi-aquatic habitat, as well as Fire-type Pokemons.

    Apparently, Molluxes are natural biochemists. While humans rely on careful experiments to study and manufacture new chemical products, Molluxes' immunity to the majority of toxins allow them to come in contact, replicate, and even modify the chemical structure of the poisons whilst recreating them in Molluxes' cone shell. Studies have shown that Mollux can produce a galvanic cell on its own, which it uses to generate weak currents of electricity that can numb predators and prey alike when in contact or in the water. Some biologist even proposed that Mollux can direct lightning strikes, one of the most violent force of nature, via such mechanisms. Therefore, it is commended that trainers approach Mollux with all the necessary caution - the predatory cone snail might look cute, but it is built for the kill.


    And now for some really, really vague ideas:

    Probable Mollux Movesets (open)
    Mollux @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    Trait: Dry Skin / Illuminate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest / Timid Nature
    - Overheat / Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Thunderbolt / Sludge Wave
    - Solar Beam / Thunder
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass / Mud Shot

    Choiced Mollux capitalizes on its natural offensive power to serve the role as a wall breaker or revenge killer. 131 base Special Attack is not something to joke around, and a +1 boost means any opponent would think twice before switching in to a neutral STAB or super-effective coverage to the face. Illuminate and Solar Beam allows Mollux to see more use in the sun, but the fact still stands that Choiced Mollux will be walled if the opponent figured out its coverage moves, and locked Mollux will provide a potentially perfect opportunity for an opponent to set up.

    Mollux @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
    Trait: Dry Skin / Illuminate
    EVs: 120 HP / 136 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest / Timid Nature
    - Lava Plume / Fire Blast
    - Acid Spray / Sludge Wave
    - Solar Beam/ Thunder / Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass / Recover

    Bulky Attacker Mollux trades instant firepower for better bulk, allowing it to give and take a few hits, recover, and switch out for another barrage at a later time. Lack of Choice Scarf means that it is especially prone to revenge killing and Rock/Ground types, meaning this set requires just as much prediction as a Choiced set to avoid becoming a liability instead of an asset. This Mollux set will benefit greatly from another wallbreaking partner that can weaken its checks severely, and in turn Mollux helps punching new holes into the team to enable a late-game sweep.

    Mollux @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin / Illuminate
    EVs: 124 HP / 132 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Lava Plume / Fire Blast / Will-O-Wisp
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder / Hidden Power Ground
    - Recover / Light Screen / Aromatherapy
    - Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin

    This set focuses on providing offensive support to Mollux's teammates, taking down opposing entry hazards setters, spinblockers or status platforms (eg. Ferrothorns, Jellicent, and defensive Heatran lacking Earth Power) while providing its own. Mollux performs this role well due to its immunity to burn and poison, and the fact that its presence will force opponents to play a little more cautiously than usual. However, this particular set suffers most terribly from 4MSS, as Mollux will be forced to leave itself vulnerable to certain offensive threats, depending on the moves it chose to run.

    Mollux @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin / Illuminate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Lava Plume / Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder
    - Sludge Wave / Venoshock / Acid Spray
    - Calm Mind

    This set laughs in the face of status reliant Pokemons, such as Tentacruel and Jellicent, but the point of nabbing a boost is moot if your opponent has a Dugtrio or Landorus standing by, so Calm Mind Mollux truly appreciates teammates who can remove those threats and soften up special walls along the way. Life Orb provides maximum power that can be mitigated via Dry Skin healing, so its best to maintain dominance over rain for Mollux to stay on the field and wreck teams longer. Leftovers can be used to further enhance Mollux's longevity, but beware of the power drop that will fail to net the necessary OHKOs.


    Good luck to everybody else, and do provide feedback as you see fit. I'd particularly appreciate help with the equivalent/outclassed VGM issue, as this is my first movepool submission. Thanks in advance! EDIT: Well, since this is final, I've logged the changes I'd done, and thank you all, again (bows).

    On a final note, fullest credits to Birkal and Past Champion Whim from PS!, whose help in the creation of this movepool is indescribably invaluable. Also, credits to Nyttyn, Flarephoenix, Destiny Warrior, and others from #cap.
  10. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
    is a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Final Submission

    Level-Up 17 / 8 (open)
    Level-Up

    0 – Harden
    0 – Poison Sting
    4 – Harden
    7 - Poison Sting
    11 – Ember
    *15 – Knock Off
    19 – Acid
    23 - Water Gun
    26 – Gastro Acid
    30 – Flame Burst
    *35 – Acid Spray
    *40 – Lava Plume
    *46 – Acid Armor
    *54 – Gunk Shot
    60 – Wring Out
    *64 – Flare Blitz
    *71 – Sludge Bomb
    76 – Final Gambit
    *81 - Eruption

    Level-up is quite straightforward. Exclusively Fire/Poison/Normal with the exception of Water Gun, Knock Off, and Final Gambit. All moves including the word Acid are included in Level-up to perhaps suggest a hippie/drug-type vibe. Fun fact: Lava Plume which is required, makes Mollux the first B/W Pokemon capable of learning Lava Plume. 17 total moves is within the reasonable range expected of a Fully Evolved Pokemon of around 14-18.

    TMs 34 / 21 (open)
    TMs

    *TM04 - Calm Mind
    *TM06 – Toxic
    TM09 – Venoshock
    *TM10 – Hidden Power
    *TM11 – Sunny Day
    TM15 – Hyper Beam
    *TM16 – Light Screen
    *TM17 – Protect
    *TM18 – Rain Dance
    *TM21 – Frustration
    TM22 – Solarbeam
    *TM24 – Thunderbolt
    *TM25 – Thunder
    $TM27 – Return
    TM28 – Dig
    TM32 – Double Team
    *TM34 – Sludge Wave
    *TM35 – Flamethrower
    $TM36 – Sludge Bomb
    *TM38 – Fire Blast
    *TM42 – Façade
    *TM44 – Rest
    TM45 – Attract
    TM46 – Thief
    TM48 – Round
    *TM50 – Overheat
    *TM57 – Charge Beam
    TM59 – Incinerate
    *TM61 – Will-o-wisp
    TM64 – Explosion
    *TM66 – Payback
    TM68 – Giga Impact
    TM70 – Flash
    *TM73 – Thunder Wave
    TM87 – Swagger
    *TM90 – Substitute

    Nothing too notable here. I agreed fully with the list of TMs Deck provided, with one exception, Flame Charge. While I'm not worried it will truly be an issue, I don't view it as a competitive necessity and I don't like the flavor of a snail getting a speed boosting move. This is consistent with one other slow-ish Fire type Pokemon in B/W, Heatmor. Neither Anteaters nor Snails are fast, and I don't see a reason to enable Mollux to become fast. Aside from the expected moves from Deck minus Flame Charge, I added a few competitive moves that offer some versatility: Light Screen, Thunderbolt, Thunder (Hurricane appears nowhere on my set), Charge Beam (because why not?), Sludge Wave (just a slight upgrade from the expected Sludge Bomb), and Thunder Wave (which I offer as an alternative to boosting its own speed with Flame Charge.) After those, I added flavor moves: Dig, Flash, and Explosion. Yes, lava lamps can and have exploded if they get overheated... admittedly only if you're really, really stupid. But it can happen.

    Egg (Water 3) 9 / 7 (open)
    Egg (Water 3)

    *Haze
    *Magic Coat
    Mud Shot
    Power Gem
    *Rapid Spin
    *Recover
    *Signal Beam
    *Stealth Rock
    *Toxic Spikes

    Relevant Legal combos:

    Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes
    Rapid Spin + Toxic Spikes
    Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock
    Recover + Stealth Rock
    Signal Beam + Mud Shot

    All:

    Haze + Mud Shot + Stealth Rock (omastar)
    Toxic Spikes + Mud Shot + Stealth Rock (omastar)
    Haze + Magic Coat + Toxic Spikes (tentacruel)
    Rapid Spin + Magic Coat + Toxic Spikes (tentacruel)
    Mud Shot + Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin (kabutops)
    Signal Beam + Mud Shot + Toxic Spikes (cloyster)
    Magic Coat + Power Gem + Recover + Stealth Rock (corsola)

    I chose Water 3 alone despite my desire to put Mollux compatible with things like Shuckle or Magcargo... but I couldn't pick. And in the end, I think enabling Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes + Rapid Spin by making Mollux breedable with Forretress is a bad thing. Again, not that I'm worried about it, like Flame Charge, but I don't see it as necessary. And Water 3 fulfills all my needs.

    Total: 60 / 36

    The Breakdown (open)

    Offensive STAB VGMs: Acid Spray, Eruption, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Flare Blitz, Gunk Shot, Lava Plume, Overheat, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave

    Offensive Coverage VGMs: Charge Beam, Facade, Frustration/Return, Hidden Power, Payback, Signal Beam, Thunder, Thunderbolt

    Offensive non-VGMs: Acid, Dig, Ember, Explosion, Final Gambit, Flame Burst, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Incinerate, Mud Shot, Poison Sting, Power Gem, Round, Solarbeam, Thief, Venoshock, Water Gun, Wring Out

    Support VGMs: Acid Armor, Calm Mind, Haze, Knock Off, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Protect, Rain Dance, Rapid Spin, Recover, Rest, Stealth Rock, Substitute, Sunny Day, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Will-o-wisp

    Support non-VGMs: Attract, Double Team, Flash, Gastro Acid, Harden, Swagger

    Notable Competitive Inclusions/Exclusions (open)

    Included: Acid Armor, Calm Mind, Charge Beam, Eruption, Final Gambit, Haze, Knock Off, Light Screen, Mud Shot, Power Gem, Rapid Spin, Recover, Signal Beam, Stealth Rock, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, Toxic Spikes

    Excluded: Amnesia, Clear Smog, Disable, Encore, Flame Charge, Heal Bell, Hurricane, Morning Sun, Octazooka, Pain Split, Sleep Talk, Trick, Work Up
  11. The Reptile

    The Reptile mfw
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    This is my first Movepool submission ever, so hopefully I didn't fuck it up too badly.

    Total Moves(53)
    VGMs (36)

    Level-Up (Bold = VGM) (10 VGM, 22 Moves)

    Show Hide

    - Toxic Spikes (Heart Scale)
    - Recover (Heart Scale)
    - Stockpile (Heart Scale)
    - Aqua Ring (Heart Scale)
    - Sweet Kiss
    - Ember
    - Constrict
    - Acid
    5 Wrap
    9 Acid Armor
    13 Flame Burst
    17 Acid Spray
    20 Thundershock
    21 Wring Out
    23 Venoshock
    29 Lava Plume
    32 Thunderbolt
    37 Coil
    44 Soak
    53 Gunk Shot
    57 Eruption
    60 Final Gambit


    TM List (Bold = VGM; Italics = Repeated Move) ( 16 New VGM 24 New Moves)

    Show Hide

    04 Calm Mind
    06 Toxic
    09 Venoshock
    10 Hidden Power
    11 Sunny Day
    15 Hyper Beam
    17 Protect
    18 Rain Dance
    21 Frustration
    22 SolarBeam
    24 Thunderbolt
    25 Thunder
    27 Return
    34 Sludge Wave
    35 Flamethrower
    36 Sludge Bomb
    38 Fire Blast
    44 Rest
    45 Attract
    46 Thief
    48 Round
    50 Overheat
    59 Incinerate
    61 Will-O-Wisp
    84 Poison Jab
    87 Swagger
    90 Substitute


    Breeding Fairy/Water 3 (Bold = VGM) (9 VGMs 9 Total Moves)

    Show Hide

    Stealth Rock
    Rapid Spin
    Heal Bell
    Whirlwind
    Spikes
    Heat Wave
    Moonlight
    Sleep Talk
    Encore

    Restrictions:
    No Fairy Pokemon gets Rapid Spin
    No Water 3 Pokemon gets Heal Bell, Heat Wave, or Moonlight
    Will go in-depth later


    Explanation (open)

    Level Up
    This one is very, very rough in terms of levels. I plan on changing thoss around. Anyways, the point of it was to embrace the more Wrap-like moves due to Mollux's tentacles. Then there is Fire / Poison / Electric in the leveling up, with most emphasis on Fire. Electric is added to the level up movepool due to Illuminate and the Lava Lamp being things that usually use electricity. Toxic Spikes and Recover added here as Heart Scale moves because I did not want restrictions on these two moves, but they didn't fit anywhere in the movepool. Stockpile is in here for the same reason.

    TM List

    Basic TM list is pretty basic. Pretty much any move that I wanted but didn't fit in the level-up pool, plus some basics.

    Egg Moves

    Alright, so I chose Fairy / Water 3 to reduce the movepool restrictions on Mollux (even though there are a lot). Rapid Spin is the most notable move, not being compatible with Moonlight, Heal Bell, or Heat Wave. Heat Wave isn't too important, since that's more of a doubles move anyways. The two major ones are Moonlight and Heal Bell. Moonlight isn't too problematic due to Recover in the rain, in the sun it's hampering, so it might not be favorable. However, I don't think it should be rapid spinning in the sun anyways. Heal Bell means it can't cleric while also rapid spinning, which is fine imo.


    EDIT: Changes the level-up move set, removing some moves from it. Will go indepth with the Egg Moves later.
  12. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

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    Anyway, I'll try my hand at this.

    70 total moves, 34 VGMs

    By TM

    Show Hide
    TM04 Calm Mind, VGM 1
    TM06 Toxic, VGM 2
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power, VGM 3
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen, VGM 4
    TM17 Protect, VGM 5
    TM18 Rain Dance, VGM 6
    TM21 Frustration, VGM 7
    TM22 Solarbeam
    TM24 Thunderbolt, VGM 8
    TM27 Return, repeat
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave, VGM 11
    TM35 Flamethrower, VGM 12
    TM36 Sludge Bomb, VGM 13
    TM38 Fire Blast, VGM 14
    TM42 Facade, VGM 15
    TM43 Flame Charge, VGM 16
    TM44 Rest, VGM 17
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat, VGM 18
    TM57 Charge Beam, VGM 19
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-o-Wisp, VGM 20
    TM63 Embargo
    TM64 Explosion
    TM66 Payback, VGM 21
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave, VGM 22
    TM76 Struggle Bug
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute, VGM 23


    By Level-up
    Show Hide
    0 Poison Sting
    0 Fire Spin
    0 Fake Tears
    0 Constrict
    5 Ember
    8 Acid
    10 Withdraw
    13 Acid Spray, VGM 22
    18 Flame Wheel
    21 Clear Smog, VGM 23
    23 Rain Dance
    26 Sludge
    31 Acupressure
    35 Simple Beam
    40 Recover, VGM 24
    43 Lava Plume, VGM 25
    48 Sludge Wave, repeat
    52 Gunk Shot, VGM 26
    54 Wring Out
    57 Inferno
    61 Eruption, VGM 27


    Egg Groups - Water 1 and Amorphous
    Show Hide
    Recover (breed with Corsola, Milotic, or Shellos), repeat
    Octazooka (breed with Octillery or Horsea)
    Heal Bell (breed with Ralts or Misdreavus from 4th gen tutor), VGM 28
    Soak (breed with Psyduck, Remoraid, or Pelliper)
    Bide (breed with Mudkip, Piplup, Tirtouga, or Corsola)
    Charm (breed with Ralts, Marill, Solosis, Wynaut, XD Golduck, XD Spheal)
    Signal Beam (breed with Remoraid, Mantine, Dewgong, 4th gen tutor Blastoise, Golduck, Slowpoke, Seel, Horsea, Lapras, Gardevoir, Surskit, Spheal, Gorebyss, Prinplup), VGM 29
    Acid Armor (breed with Muk, chain breed with a lot of other random Amorphous mons), VGM 30
    Amnesia (breed with Psyduck, Poliwag, Slowpoke, Wooper, Slugma, Gulpin, Gorebyss, chain breed with Marill, Corsola, Mantine, Shellos), VGM 31
    Disable (breed with mostly anything in Amorphous)
    Gastro Acid (breed with Gulpin)
    Knock Off (breed with Corphish, Shuppet, 4th gen Marill, Wingull, Empoleon, Drifloon, Omanyte, chain breed with Tirtouga), VGM 32
    Magic Coat (breed with 4th gen Slowpoke, Corsola, Milotic, and Ghost/Psychic type mons of Amorphous), VGM 33
    Toxic Spikes (chain breed with Omanyte), VGM 34


    Explanation:
    Show Hide
    TMs is largely VGMs because almost every single Fire- and Poison-type move. Level-up is mostly Fire- and Poison-type moves with a few moves of other types thrown in. Physical moves are there for the sake of flavor. Mollux (or its prevo, if there is any) starts out with the weak Fire Spin / Poison Sting, gets Ember at level 5, and then learns mostly Poison-type moves. It begins to master Fire-type moves as it grows (and begins to get most of its stronger moves in the 40s). It eventually finishes with Eruption, the climax of its Fire-type skills. The egg move section I fear might be a bit bloated; if anybody suggests that I cut down, I will, lol. Most of the non-VGMs are there for flavor. I wanted to get Octazooka on this little guy straight out (it's a worse Hidden Power Water for god's sake) so I stuck him in Water 1. The other category, Amorphous, is where all the slime-related mons seem to go (Gastrodon also!), which made it seem like an optimal place to put it as well. Notably, it gets Heal Bell, Acid Armor, and Magic Coat from Amorphous; from Water 1, it gets Octazooka, Soak (which I want to see in all its self-theorymonned brokenness), Knock Off, and Toxic Spikes (only from Omastar). I really didn't want this mon to have Stealth Rock (there are many users in OU and giving Mollux too many hazards makes it good by virtue of possessing hazards to set and doing so better than other mons, not by virtue of good stats, etc... it's too easy to give a shitty mon hazards and make it good). Rapid Spin is absent because I have serious doubts it'd be useful. If you switch into SR, you lose a quarter of your health; if Spikes are up, that number increases. Although it does beat most spinblockers, it definitely can't eliminate setters - Tyranitar and Heatran, among others, are meant to counter it and are fairly common setters. In any case, it gets rid of Toxic Spikes automatically.
  13. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
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    2,137
    Final Submission

    Where we stand, as far as I see it, is with a tankish CAP that has low(er) Speed, a fairly negative Stealth Rock weakness, and weaknesses to common STABs and coverage moves. It is also susceptible to Spikes and takes damage from 3 kinds of weather (and Abomasnow has OU-level usage as of May). On the positive side, our CAP has Water/Toxic/Burn immunities, stellar resistances to common coverage moves for Water-types, usable defensive stats, and an incredible SpA stat. Together, these elements look to me like a Poke that should be fine to switch-in in common battle conditions but will have a lot of trouble staying in over multiple turns. So, my goal with this movepool has been to focus on the positive quality of utilizing free turns, and to try to use them to buck the negative qualities (I believe this approach is appropriate for the concept).

    Based on that short theorymoning, along with past discussions and my own interpretation of where we're headed with this concept, I envision a Poke with a variety of options but still three primary "roles" or functions or builds, each intended to maximize Mollux's first-turns out on the field (first-turns being the first turn in battle, each time the Poke enters battle). Regardless of its role, Mollux will have to make tough choices for moveslots, but ideally there will be several viable options that can give our CAP surprise value and maybe even a few extra rounds of play. The main idea here, though, is that the three main builds focus the CAP on its performance in the metagame and guide the movepool towards maximizing that quality.

    The first role is "Hazards," as in Mollux's role is to set up and/or take down entry hazards with a mild offensive presence. This movepool gives Mollux access to the one-off Rapid Spin, in order to clear the field of the layers that harm it so badly while the opponent switches, and Wish/Recover or just Dry Skin to heal back the damage (if the switch-in is not automatically threatening). For actually laying hazards, this movepool contains both Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, with Egg illegalities mildly focusing attention on use of the one-layered Stealth Rock. I also wanted to include Dragon Tail for Hazards Mollux for four reasons: 1) it gives Mollux the ability to bypass Taunt, preventing Taunt users from shutting it down completely and stealing momentum; 2) it shuffles opponents through the player's entry hazards for added damage; 3) it prevents Mollux from becoming setup bait (e.g. Forretress), especially by powerful Dragons, which would make CAP a liability; and 4) it gives Mollux a viable technique to abuse Dry Skin in the Rain - by nabbing repeat switch-ins after SR is down and doing attack/hazard damage, but then also healing Mollux at the end of the turn. This combo, Dry Skin + Dragon Tail, could give hazards Mollux a legitimate spot on a Rain team and a real, unique advantage in the OU weather wars. More generally speaking, a moveset like Rapid Spin/SR/Lava Plume/Dragon Tail plays a lot different from Rapid Spin/SR/Lava Plume/Recover, or from SR/Recover/Lava Plume/Dragon Tail, or even SR/Dragon Tail/Lava Plume/Thunderbolt, which will hopefully force opponents to do a little bit of scouting once they see SR in the moveset (i.e. not just wait to take advantage of a fully-predictable, run-of-the-mill hazard stacker).

    The second role is "Bulky," as in Mollux fills the role of bulky pivot that supports the team with resistances and status. CAP's support options here are mostly just good on their own and give Bulky Mollux the choice of either attacking after the switch-in or using that reliable status move before it is forced out. This movepool contains Calm Mind, Recover, Wish, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Light Screen, Lava Plume, and Thunderbolt for this role. Like Dragon Tail before, Calm Mind is aimed at giving Mollux more than just one or two turns on the field at a time and can be used offensively or defensively with that sky-high SpA stat and good Special bulk. Recover is crucially legal with all moves and will be the backbone of Bulky Mollux, but I also included Wish, as it is one of the best one-move support options available and is always useful, despite the 95 HP stat, which is low for a Wish user. Wish also seems so conducive to the role of "bulky pivot" that I couldn't leave it out (it literally requires you to pivot in order to make better use of it than Recover). Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and Toxic provide a triple-status advantage, with Thunder Wave compensating for Mollux's low Speed and Will-o-Wisp compensating for its lower physical Defense. Finally, Light Screen is a good move to throw up any time with a free turn, boosting Mollux's already good SpD while it's on the field. The offensive moves for bulky Mollux are Lava Plume (or Flamethrower, if you desire) and Thunderbolt, giving Mollux access to any two of its support options, of which there are some good options in Will-o-Wisp/Light Screen, Recover/Calm Mind, Thunder Wave/Dragon Tail/Encore, etc., or just one support move and a Hidden Power for more offensive variants.

    The third role is "Offense," which will most likely be the least-used role, but that doesn't mean it won't have any fun toys. For the most part, this build will be focusing Mollux's first-turns on massive outbursts of damage. For Offensive Mollux, I have included Eruption, Fire Blast, Overheat, Flame Charge, Sludge Wave, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, and Trick to give Life Orb, Choice Scarf, or Choice Specs Mollux tons of power, but less coverage than other OU bruisers. This reliance on STABs instead of coverage makes Sludge Wave look like a halfway-decent option, which speaks directly to the concept. Thunder is most useful in Rain, and is this movepool's only Rain-abusing move. I opted out of including Hurricane so that I could avoid ham-fisting the illegality with Thunder, and the move doesn't offer enough to the movepool to justify it. Beyond the Electric attacks, coverage could include SolarBeam in the Sun, but Sludge Wave, Hidden Power, and Trick will be the go-to non-Fire-type moves for Offensive Mollux, leaving it with Fire/Poison/Electric/Hidden Power coverage. The main decision here will be which nuclear move, Overheat, Fire Blast, or Eruption, to start throwing around the metagame.

    Flavor-wise, I avoided adding physical attacks where I could, due to the physically inoffensive looks of the thing. This absence is reflected in the stat spread as well, and, with a connection to all the physically inoffensive cutemons via breeding (Fairy Egg Group), this movepool ties these elements together to give the CAP an added quirk. I also wanted to touch on Mollux's amphibious design origins with specific Water-type moves and the Water 1 Egg Group. The Fire typing is well-established in the Level-Up and TM movepools, while the secondary Poison typing gets its big tricks in the Egg pool, with other attacks and support moves dotting the LU and TM lists. The final look is cohesive, in my opinion, and gives Mollux plenty of personality while reinforcing the appeal of the original design.

    So this is the movepool.

    Level-Up (open)
    Moves: 15
    VGMs: 7

    -Wrap
    -Withdraw
    -Poison Sting
    -Bide
    5. Poison Sting
    8. Bide
    12. Harden
    17. Recover
    20. Encore
    24. Flame Burst
    29. Acid Spray
    32. Amnesia
    36. Lava Plume
    41. Gastro Acid
    44. Inferno
    48. Acid Armor
    53. Eruption

    For the Level-Up moves, I ended up drawing inspiration from other, similarly-designed Pokemon like Shuckle and Magcargo, since both were pushed out of the breeding pool and deserve influence over the movepool design, imo. Early levels focus on common moves for shelled Pokemon like Withdraw, Bide, and Harden, along with painfully weak attacking options. Then, when the Pokemon hits Flame Burst, its Fire/Poison typing starts taking over the movepool, with Magcargo's influence transitioning in: Harden (L12 vs. Magcargo's L14), Recover (L17 vs. L19), Flame Burst (L24 vs. L23), Amnesia (L32 vs. L32), and Lava Plume (L36 vs. L37). The Poison moves are flavorful and supportive, while the Acid moves and Amnesia can all vaguely allude to a "burn-out" in terms of hallucinogenic drug use, which is a funny pun to me, considering the typing and art design. The Fire attacks are all chosen for flavorfully covering large areas with molten material or at least doing splash damage, which I believe is more conducive to Mollux's method of launching attacks from the top of its shell, as opposed to beams of fire or more particularly-aimed moves. The overall look may allude to a mono-Poison or Poison/Water pre-evo, as the first Fire attack is learned at L24, but that is hardly a requirement, as the flavor still fits Mollux's design entirely.

    The attacks are Wrap and Poison Sting from the get-go and then Flame Burst, Acid Spray, Lava Plume, Inferno, and Eruption to fit the typing. Wrap gave me something to do with those adorable little leg-tentacles, while Poison Sting gives its secondary typing an initial presence. As a general disposition, I like to imagine Mollux being easily surprised and just spewing molten contents everywhere in a panic when startled (you can picture your own fun scenario where this happens). This is exemplified by the movepool choices and the growing power of its destructive Fire-type moves as it levels up. Other than the attacks, Mollux's natural movepool is primarily about self-preservation. This progression starts with Withdraw and includes all of Harden, Recover, Amnesia, and Acid Armor. The one thing I didn't want to do was make the list look crammed or awkward by trying to do too much in this one section. It should look more realistic this way.

    Competitively, this section offers Mollux only Recover, Lava Plume, and Eruption, and plausibly Encore and Acid Spray. Lava Plume will be a boon for defensive builds, and could work well with Light Screen from the TM list, while Eruption is that more-powerful-but-less-reliable Fire STAB. Encore has niche use against slower Pokes stuck on Toxic/WoW/Water attack, which can help it force those free turns it so desperately needs to succeed. Also Acid Spray is flavorful and I think there are a few people who want to try it out. Recover is in the LU list because I specifically didn't want it to be illegal with any other move, as it's most likely going to be what sets Mollux apart in the metagame. Amnesia and Acid Armor are technically VGMs, but they’re flavor here as this Poke shouldn’t have much use for them without Baton Pass.

    Egg (Water 1/Fairy) (open)
    Moves: 12
    VGMs: 7
    Code:
    [B]Aromatherapy[/B] - Clefable, Roserade, Jumpluff
    
    Disable - Castform, Dewgong, Golduck, Kingdra, Slowpoke Line, Snorunt Line,
              Wigglytuff
    
    [B]Knock Off[/B] - Azumarill, Carracosta, Clefable, Crawdaunt, Empoleon, Kabutops,
                Mawile, Omastar, Pelipper, Raichu, Wigglytuff
    
    Mud Shot - Kabutops, Masquerain, Octillery, Omastar, Poliwag Line, Quagsire, 
               Relicanth, Seismitoad, Stunfisk, Swampert
    
    [B]Rapid Spin[/B] - Blastoise, Kabutops, Delibird
    
    [B]Stealth Rock[/B] - Bibarel, Clefable, Corsola, Empoleon, Kabutops, Omastar,
                   Relicanth, Swampert, Wigglytuff
    
    Sweet Kiss - Audino, Clefable, Minun, Pachirisu, Plusle, Raichu, Togekiss,
                 Wigglytuff
    
    Tickle - Alomomola, Azumarill, Cherrim, Clefable, Delcatty, Lapras, Ludicolo,
             Mawile, Omastar, Raichu, Whimiscott
    
    [B]Toxic Spikes[/B] - Omastar, Roserade
    
    [B]Trick[/B] - Clefable, Slowpoke Line, Togekiss
    
    Whirlpool - Carracosta, Clamperl Line, Empoleon, Floatzel, Lapras, Manaphy,
                Omastar, Swampert
    
    [B]Wish[/B] - Alomomola, Audino, Clefable, Delcatty, Minun, Plusle, Raichu,
           Togekiss, Wigglytuff
    Legal Move Combinations:

    Aromatherapy + Knock Off + Stealth Rock + Sweet Kiss + Trick (Gen. IV Clefable)
    Aromatherapy + Toxic Spikes (Roserade)
    Disable + Knock Off + Stealth Rock + Sweet Kiss + Wish (Gen. IV Wigglytuff)
    Disable + Trick (Slowpoke Line)
    Knock Off + Mud Shot + Stealth Rock + Tickle + Toxic Spikes (Gen. IV Omastar)
    Sweet Kiss + Trick + Wish (Gen. IV Togekiss)
    Mud Shot + Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock (Gen. IV Kabutops)
    Mud Shot + Tickle + Toxic Spikes + Whirlpool (Omastar)
    Sweet Kiss + Tickle (Raichu)

    Notable Illegal Move Combinations:

    Aromatherapy + Rapid Spin + Wish
    Rapid Spin + Toxic Spikes + Trick
    Toxic Spikes + Wish

    --------------------

    The Egg moves offer some interesting little bits of competitiveness. Aromatherapy and Wish are huge team support moves, so they're separated from Rapid Spin and from each other to make sure Mollux remains pivoting and not trying to fill too many roles at once. Beyond that, move illegalities are mostly insignificant, with the only likely exceptions being a) Rapid Spin + Toxic Spikes, which I am actually fine with because I don't want Mollux to just up and steal Tentacruel's niche or Forretress's prime Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin moveset, and b) Toxic Spikes + Wish, which requires way too many turns to give Mollux much use of the combination. Toxic Spikes in general is pretty lackluster on this Poke and during this playtest especially, so I'm not too worried about losing any competitive value by limiting how Mollux can access the move. Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock is the main legal combo as far as hazards go, as is Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes if you can manage the moveslots, while Clefable and Wigglytuff from the Fairy group provide longer lists of legal move combinations, including Trick + Stealth Rock, which is great.

    The flavor moves Sweet Kiss and Tickle target Mollux's connection to the Fairy Egg group as a cutemon while maintaining the artwork's original flavor. These moves are obnoxiously adorable to imagine Mollux performing with its pursed lips and tentacles, and their presence in the movepool is self-explanatory. Also, I've given Mollux Whirlpool as a trapping move. Flavorfully, I felt that Mollux needed more elements to tie it to its amphibious design roots beyond Withdraw and Dry Skin, and Whirlpool here really fits the bill and adds a nice quirk to the movepool. Competitively, Whirlpool can potentially be used in a surprise trapping set for Rain that targets Mollux's Ground and Rock-type switch-ins, preventing them from double-switching out while hitting them for Rain-boosted SE damage and maintaining momentum (trust me Whirlpool will never ever do substantial damage to anything it could only ever be used for trapping and residual damage, if ever).

    TM/HM (open)
    Moves: 44
    VGMs: 22

    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM09 - Venoshock
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM16 - Light Screen
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - SolarBeam
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Sludge Wave
    TM35 - Flamethrower
    TM36 - Sludge Bomb
    TM38 - Fire Blast
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Flame Charge
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Round
    TM49 - Echoed Voice
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM59 - Incinerate
    TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
    TM63 - Embargo
    TM64 - Explosion
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Retaliate
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM82 - Dragon Tail
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM94 - Rock Smash

    I suppose there is never anything too exciting or controversial in the TM list, so I'll just point out a few highlights. Mollux gets access to the both of Light Screen and Will-o-Wisp here, which is a good defensive combination. There is also Calm Mind for defensive boosting, which can become a real terror after only a couple boosts with that sky-high SpA stat. Mollux can pick up a Speed boost as well with Flame Charge, although the move is laughably weak and Mollux's coverage is so poor that outright sweeping can't be a concern. Speaking of coverage, here Mollux picks up Thunder, Thunderbolt, Charge Beam, and Hidden Power, which are coincidentally Mollux's only coverage moves outside of Mud Shot and Whirlpool (which have their own obvious shortcomings). In terms of STABs, then, we have Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Sludge Wave, and Sludge Bomb: pretty cut-and-dry. Finally, I decided to put Thunder Wave on the list, since Agility was Disallowed and I very much appreciate the threat that triple-status Pokemon can provide. Dragon Tail is a less-flavorful addition because of Mollux's lack of tail, I guess, but none of the phazing moves fit Mollux flavorfully and I really wanted Mollux to have a shot at it. I feel like Dragon Tail is the "least flavorless" of the options available, as Mollux's four legs and reptilian Dry Skin Ability inch in the direction of the typical reptile/Dragon-based learners of the move, and Dragon Tail's competitive value is notable (and who knows, there may be a tail in there somewhere, or it can use its conic shell as a tail or something. Gastly gets elemental punches - this isn't a big deal).

    Summary (open)
    Total Moves: 72
    Total VGMs: 36

    Attacking VGMs (16):

    Acid Spray
    Eruption
    Facade
    Fire Blast
    Flame Charge
    Flamethrower
    Frustration/Return
    Hidden Power
    Lava Plume
    Overheat
    Payback
    Poison Jab
    Sludge Wave
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt

    Non-Attacking VGMs (21):

    Acid Armor
    Amnesia
    Aromatherapy
    Calm Mind
    Confuse Ray
    Dragon Tail
    Knock Off
    Light Screen
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Rest
    Stealth Rock
    Substitute
    Thunder Wave
    Toxic
    Toxic Spikes
    Trick
    Will-o-Wisp
    Wish

    Other Notable Moves:

    Disable
    SolarBeam
    Torment
    Venoshock
    Whirlpool

    Allowed Moves Not Included in the Movepool:

    Hurricane same set exclusive with Thunder
    Final Gambit
    Flare Blitz
    Gunk Shot
    Octazooka
    Power Gem
    Power Whip
    Heat Wave
    Razor Shell
    Signal Beam
    Waterfall

    Acupressure
    Aqua Ring
    Charge
    Clear Smog
    Coil
    Confuse Ray
    Fake Tears / Metal Sound
    Foresight
    Growth
    Haze
    Ingrain
    Magic Coat
    Magnet Rise
    Morning Sun / Moonlight
    Pain Split
    Recycle
    Roar
    Role Play
    Skill Swap
    Sleep Talk
    Snatch
    Soak
    Stockpile
    Whirlwind
    Work Up
  14. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,295
    Final Submission

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An Introduction, and a Vision of sorts

    Let me preface this movepool by saying that I am one of those who subscribes to the school of thought that says "less is more". There are many movepool submitters who are suggesting that the larger the movepool is, the better - that Mollux is somehow made better by the many additions it could potentially have. I do not think that, in this case, it is even a mildly good idea to include as many options as possible in the rather vain hope that Mollux will turn out to be able to use at least one of them.

    Mollux has a niche. Multiple niches, in fact. If all goes well, it will be a one-Pokemon stop to just about every rain Pokemon in existence, as well as a good sun attacker or rain tank. Importantly, it has reliable recovery. I believe that this is absolutely the most crucial thing to focus on - encouraging this dual niche - and that almost everything else should be viewed as a distraction. More than anything else, I want to see how Mollux can perform as a Pokemon, within a niche that incorporates its ability, some coverage, and indeed movepool, without risking defining it with x random option. Hence a dual niche, dependent upon its typing.

    Would Mollux be broken with any of these added moves? Certainly not, but I do not feel that adding any extraneous, superfluous options is at all helping us in our most important pursuit - learning what we set out to learn, which was whether a Pokemon could carry itself on the strength of a rather dubious typing, or at least benefit from it with a little help. Will Mollux be useless without these moves? Possibly, but then that's not the point. We're not here to make a fantastic Pokemon - we're here to try to learn something, and typically we can learn a lot more from the bare minimum than we can from a hyper-bloated movepool. See Krilowatt for details. I want Mollux to be as direct and to the point as possible - but I do think that, based on the strength of its niche, and the movepool I have given, it has more than enough to be a force in OU, easily. Remember that it's often not the strength of the Pokemon that matters, but the strength of its niche (which is why Toxicroak is OU and Kyurem is BL).

    Now, on to the movepool itself. I have tried to be extremely conservative with the attacking moves - that is to say, only allowed the most vital of extra coverage. Hence, I have only given strong attacking moves in three types - Fire (Lava Plume, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, etc), Poison (Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, etc) and Electric (Thunder, Thunderbolt, etc). This is easily enough for 3 move coverage + Recover - and of course, there's still Hidden Power to mix things up a little. Now, you may wonder why there is so little coverage here - this is for two reasons. Firstly, I don't want to make Mollux any greater a special attacker than it has to be - unpredictability is a nasty thing, and I don't think that's a facet of Mollux I want to encourage. I want it to do one or two things very well, rather than relying on unreliable methods. Secondly, I want to encourage the use of Poison-type attacks. Surprising though it may seem, STAB Sludge Wave is just stronger than a super effective Hidden Power, and actually gets pretty decent neutral coverage, all things considered. You still can't hit Rock-types for toffee, which is something to be encouraged, anyway. Being able to take on everything in the game is something we've done far too much of in CAP, I feel.

    Now, the secondary moves. True to my word, I have only included a few in here that make the mildest bit of difference and aren't already required. We have our instant-recovery moves - it has been a tried-and-true note that most Stealth Rock weak Pokemon perform better with reliable recovery - in fact, pretty much everything does. But Mollux in particular will want to stay healthy for longer, to capitalise on that bulk, and Recover allows it to do that. The only real "generic support" moves I have included that were not already required are Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin, and Trick. Now, for Toxic Spikes I greatly enjoyed the argument that more Toxic Spikes in the metagame means that the Poison-type is more valuable, so I included it. Stealth Rock is less easy to justify, but to me it came down to the competition between it and Heatran. Both are offensive Fire-types, yet Heatran can set up Stealth Rock if need be - while the comparison between them is slim, Stealth Rock is another potential reason to include Heatran over Mollux, should the team be in need of it, and hence Stealth Rock ought to be there purely for the option to exist. Lastly, Rapid Spin. Now, this was mainly included because a) it's great flavour with Gyro Ball and b) I actually think it would be rather unexpected, similarly to Cloyster or Armaldo, two other Stealth Rock weak spinners. This is largely because on rain teams it is kind of totally outclassed by Tentacruel, and on sun teams by Forretress.

    Now, Deck will probably hate me for this, but while Stealth Rock is legal with Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, and Recover, Recover is not legal with Rapid Spin, so the combination of Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock + Recover is impossible. This is actually largely intentional - I do not think that a moveset that puts secondary options into so many slots is entirely indicative of the strengths of Mollux's typing, though as I argued for dual screens, it could be argued that Mollux's typing is the best thing about such a set (and not, say, being the only bulky Rapid Spinner with access to Recover, which is why I half-disallowed the possibility). Of course, this does not mean that Spin+Hazard+Recover is impossible at all - Morning Sun is still available, which means that depending on the weather it is used in, Mollux can get a Spin+Hazard+25%+12.5% (rain) or a Spin+Hazard+66.6% (sun) set quite easily, which is easily enough recovery. Anyway, the point here is that I am trying to make multiple-attack offensive and defensive sets the most competitively viable - hence why Recover is not as easily obtainable to those of a support disposition.

    Oh, and Trick. Well, my reasoning for that was that it would be pretty funky to run a Trick+Flame Orb or Toxic Orb set to bluff a Choice item, then greatly irritate the foe's Terrakion the next time it came in - why, exactly, you would not run Will-O-Wisp or Toxic is beyond me, but then, it's a fun idea for taking advantage of the typing. Not to mention that it also encourages Choice sets, which I feel can make good use of certain strong Poison-type STAB moves, not to mention, well, not being support sets. Well, that's the hope, anyway. I felt that the positives outweighed the negatives here.

    Finally, set-up moves. I will make no secret of the fact that I do not like the idea of them on Mollux. They are distracting, and largely useless. Flame Charge I put on purely because of flavour, and because I know from Flame Charge Heatran that this move is entirely useless competitively (well, comparatively speaking). As far as Calm Mind goes, I don't know. I really don't know. There appears to be a desire for a set-up move of some description - Calm Mind Mollux can never sweep, and I believe Deck is being rather optimistic with his appraisal of the SpD boost. However, I have included it purely for sake of experiment. Will Calm Mind help it achieve its function? I have no idea, so finding out would be nice. I believe it distracting and unnecessary, but I don't know if my beliefs are justified at present.

    Well, that's the competitive vision. Flavour is described below. Hope you like the movepool, and good luck to all other entrants.

    Included Moves

    Show Hide

    $Acid Spray
    $Hidden Power
    $Lava Plume
    $Solarbeam
    $Eruption
    $Fire Blast
    $Flamethrower
    $Overheat
    $Poison Jab
    $Sludge Bomb
    $Sludge Wave
    $Thunder
    $Thunderbolt
    $Venoshock
    $Flare Blitz

    $Rain Dance
    $Sunny Day
    $Toxic
    $Will-O-Wisp
    $Substitute
    $Morning Sun
    $Protect
    $Flame Charge
    $Calm Mind
    $Gastro Acid
    $Rapid Spin
    $Recover
    $Stealth Rock
    $Toxic Spikes
    $Trick


    Excluded Moves

    Show Hide
    /Hurricane
    /Charge Beam
    /Final Gambit
    /Gunk Shot
    /Octazooka
    /Mud Shot
    /Power Gem
    /Power Whip
    /Heat Wave
    /Razor Shell
    /Signal Beam
    /Waterfall

    /Acupressure
    /Acid Armor
    /Amnesia
    /Aqua Ring
    /Charge
    /Clear Smog
    /Coil
    /Disable
    /Encore
    /Endure
    /Metal Sound
    /Fire Spin
    /Whirlpool
    /Foresight
    /Growth
    /Haze
    /Heal Bell
    /Ingrain
    /Light Screen
    /Magic Coat
    /Magnet Rise
    /Pain Split
    /Recycle
    /Roar
    /Role Play
    /Skill Swap
    /Sleep Talk
    /Snatch
    /Soak
    /Stockpile
    /Thunder Wave
    /Whirlwind
    /Wish
    /Work Up


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Movepool

    = VGM
    * = Repeat Move
    ** = Equivalent Move

    Level-Up

    Code:
    [I]- Rain Dance*[/I]
    [I]- Sunny Day*[/I]
    5. Constrict
    [I]10. Acid Spray[/I]
    15. Withdraw
    20. Ember
    25. Thundershock
    30. Bide
    [I]35. Lava Plume[/I]
    40. Flash*
    [I]45. Poison Jab*[/I]
    [I]50. Morning Sun[/I]
    [I]55. Eruption[/I]
    Moves: 13
    VGMS: 7
    Repeats: 4

    Flavour Justification:

    Now, firstly, of course, you will notice the presence of both Rain Dance and Sunny Day as Level 1 moves. I consider this Pokemon to be rather similar to Bronzong in this regard, who had that whole flavour thing about it being the ancient summoner of rains, but I rather like the idea that Mollux is something of a weather-summoner by nature, or at least able to manipulate clouds, given its very complicated relationship with both rain and sun. The idea being, of course, that it can change the weather to suit its own needs – or even depending on its moods. Or something like that. Anyway, the importance of the duality of Mollux's existence – as a defensive rain Pokemon, or an offensive sun Pokemon – is pretty well exemplified.

    The rest of the flavour moves are fairly standard moves for shell-bearing Pokemon, and are largely based on Shuckle's movepool. Hence we have Constrict, Withdraw, and Bide. As with most movepools, the moves steadily increase with Base Power as we go up – Hence we have Ember at the start and Eruption at the end, Mollux's most powerful attack. The other two flavour moves are Poison Jab and Flash – Poison Jab is working off the whole cone snail principle, as an actual cone snail's primary offensive weapon is its poison tooth, which I feel is important to mention on this movepool. Also Flash because it is a lava lamp. Both of these are also TMs, but so integral to the flavour that they have to be level-up moves as well. Finally, Thundershock is a little nod to the fact that Thunderbolt and Thunder are included in the movepool as TMs, and of course the fact that it is a lava lamp.

    As far as the competitive options go, Acid Spray goes on because, well, it's required. There is really no other reason I put it on. I suppose it works in terms of the increasing move BP flavour though. Lava Plume is also required, but is a very nice way of taking advantage of Fire-type STAB by abusing a move with high burn chance that isn't totally useless offensively. Even though I have Recover on this movepool, it is illegal with Rapid Spin – therefore, Morning Sun is always available for recovery for rapid spinners. It's also an option if you want Mollux to deal with, or be more capable on, sun teams, as it makes up for the loss of HP by Dry Skin somewhat. Finally, there's Eruption – Mollux's strongest initial attack. I really like it, both as a nod to the concept as to the sheer power of some Fire-type attacks, and giving it something to do that Heatran, for all its strengths, cannot. Also it gives us an excuse to use it in the sun, which, let me remind you, is not the rain.

    TMs and HMs

    Code:
    [I]TM04	Calm Mind[/I]
    [I]TM06	Toxic[/I]
    TM09	Venoshock
    [I]TM10	Hidden Power
    TM11	Sunny Day*[/I]
    TM15	Hyper Beam
    TM17	Protect
    [I]TM18	Rain Dance*[/I]
    TM20	Safeguard
    [I]TM21	Frustration**[/I]
    TM22	Solarbeam
    [I]TM24	Thunderbolt
    TM25	Thunder
    TM27	Return**[/I]
    TM32	Double Team
    [I]TM34	Sludge Wave
    TM35	Flamethrower
    TM36	Sludge Bomb
    TM38	Fire Blast
    TM42	Facade
    TM43	Flame Charge
    TM44	Rest[/I]
    TM45	Attract
    TM48	Round
    [I]TM50	Overheat[/I]
    TM59	Incinerate
    [I]TM61	Will-O-Wisp
    TM64	Explosion[/I]
    TM68	Giga Impact
    TM70	Flash*
    [I]TM74	Gyro Ball[/I]
    TM76	Struggle Bug
    [I]TM84	Poison Jab*[/I]
    TM87	Swagger
    [I]TM90	Substitute[/I]
    Moves: 35
    VGMs: 21
    Repeats: 4
    Equivalents: 2

    Flavour Justification:

    Now, let's see here. Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Flash, and Poison Jab have all been explained, so there's no need to go over them again. Notably, in this, I took out most of the non-competitive moves that I couldn't justify as per flavour while leaving a few options behind, mainly the ones that every fully-evolved Pokemon has such as Façade, Round, and Giga Impact, so we're pretty bare-bones here. As far as other flavour moves are concerned, they are pretty generic shell flavour again – Explosion is pretty much a mainstay of everything with a shell, Gyro Ball conjures up rather wonderful images of a spinning-top lava lamp, and of course Struggle Bug is a rather obvious nod to Shuckle. Lastly, Venoshock and Incinerate are our two STAB moves of doubtful competitive value.

    As for competitive moves, most of the STAB moves are fairly straightforward. We have Fire Blast, Overheat and Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb and Sludge Wave, nothing of particular interest or note. Flame Charge is noteworthy, and I included it purely because I am interested in any potential applications, and it is more easily justifiable by flavour than most of the rubbish options people were spewing out. I know it will be next to useless – one only has to look at Flame Charge Heatran to know that – but it'll still be an interesting experiment. Will-O-Wisp is required, as ever, and the only other options of note are Thunder and Thunderbolt. I sympathise with both the camp that says that we need a strong move for rain and the one that says we need to beat bulky Water-types even outside of rain, and so both are added on. Thunder is a strong, powerful option both for beating Water-types in rain and for attacking outside of it, and Thunderbolt doesn't have that 70% accuracy worry, or even lower if in any other weather. I want both of them, thanks.

    Egg Moves

    Groups: Bug / Water 3

    Code:
    Bug Bite 
    [I]Electro Ball[/I]
    [I]Flare Blitz[/I]
    Gastro Acid
    Harden 
    [I]Rapid Spin[/I]
    [I]Recover[/I]
    [I]Stealth Rock[/I]
    Silver Wind 
    [I]Toxic Spikes[/I]
    Wrap
    [I]Trick[/I]
    Moves: 11
    VGMs: 6

    Legal VGM Combinations:

    Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes (Forretress)
    Recover + Stealth Rock (Cradily)
    Flare Blitz (Volcarona)
    Trick (Volbeat)

    Important Illegal VGM Combinations:

    Recover + Rapid Spin
    Recover + Toxic Spikes
    Recover + Trick
    Rapid Spin + Trick
    Toxic Spikes + Trick
    Stealth Rock + Trick

    Flavour Considerations:

    Ah, Egg Moves. Typically the place where all the non-flavour competitive moves are chucked in order to sort of push away the issue. And here is no exception, of course. We have Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Recover, Toxic Spikes, and Flare Blitz. Now, I included Toxic Spikes largely because putting another Toxic Spiker in the metagame has a big effect in terms of adding to the pool of Toxic Spikers, and well, since one of Mollux's big advantages as a Poison-type is the absorption of Toxic Spikes, that's no bad thing by any stretch. Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin are added so that Mollux has a utility role, as well as perhaps letting it compete with Heatran on balanced teams – and indeed, something that sets it apart from Tentacruel as a Toxic Spiker, as well as semi-reliable recovery in Morning Sun. Recover is illegal with both Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, which makes them somewhat less attractive than Mollux's offensive options, which is something I feel we ought to be encouraging – it is legal with Stealth Rock though. However, I don't think this is a particularly big deal as if I were purely using a Mollux with Stealth Rock, I'd much rather use Heatran, regardless of Recover, so that's not really a big deal in my opinion. I'm willing to turn a blind eye to it, anyway.

    As far as Trick goes, I like it for sake of the way it can hypothetically interact with the typing, as well as making Choice sets a little more favoured. On the down side, you can't use it with any of the other big utility moves, which is semi-intentional – Trick is a good way to grab a few free turns, and I'd like to limit the extent to which Mollux can capitalise on this. In any case, it shouldn't be a problem if Mollux is using an offensive set. As far as flavour goes, Gastro Acid, Harden, and Wrap continue the whole shell Pokemon theme, while Bug Bite and Silver Wind are there to sweeten the link between those marvellous Bug-types, most of whom it can breed with apparently. Flare Blitz is there as yet another Fire-type move, and finally, we have Electro Ball. Now, Electro Ball has multiple flavour connotations - it pairs nicely with the lava lamp theme, and the moves associated with it - namely, Gyro Ball and Rapid Spin in terms of "spinning" (yeah I know it's not really spinning, but it's still a ball) and the Electric-type moves in terms of, er, electricity. Yeah.

    As far as the Egg groups go, it has to be in Bug, of course, because one couldn't imagine it not being able to breed with Shuckle. Not to mention that Forretress is necessary for most of the Egg move legalities. In addition, it is a part of Water 3, which isn't particularly relevant to egg move legalities, but contains all the aquatic invertebrates, so is really the only egg group that makes absolute sense for Mollux to be in. Indeed, I rather like the way that all of Mollux's egg moves, barring Trick and Flare Blitz, can be found on multiple Pokemon in both groups - gives a wonderful sense of place, you know.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Total Moves: 60
    Total VGMs: 30
    Total Repeats: 4
    Total Equivalents: 1

    Well, that's that. I doubt you'll see me for the rest of this CAP, so good luck to all participants.
  15. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Final Movepool Submission

    Total Moves: 62
    VGMs: 35
    Egg Group: Water 3 / Bug

    Most Recent Updates:
    - added Recover to level-up in place of Morning Sun
    - removed Acupressure, Disable, Haze, Endeavor, Magic Coat, and Thunder from egg moves
    - moved Thunder to TMs and and Magic Coat to level-up in place of Acid Armor (removed)
    - added Encore to egg moves

    Noteworthy Features:
    - Offensive coverage includes Fire/Poison STABs, as well as Electric moves, Bug moves, mud-related Ground-type moves, and Solarbeam
    - Hurricane, Power Gem, Octazooka, Final Gambit, and Gunk Shot are absent from offensive coverage
    - Non-attacking competitive options include Calm Mind, Thunder Wave / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp, Clear Smog, Magic Coat, Stealth Rock & Toxic Spikes, Recover, Knock Off, Encore, Flame Charge, and Rapid Spin
    - Support movepool attempts to cater to all possible support needs without giving an overcentralized emphasis on support.
    - Magnet Rise, Haze, Roar/Whirlwind, Acid Armor, Snatch, Soak, and Pain Split are absent from boosting/support movepool
    - emphasis on cone snail flavor includes mud-related attacks, weaker Bug moves, Dig, Gastro Acid, Whirlpool, Poison Sting, and Poison Jab
    - emphasis on lava lamp flavor includes Charge, Charge Beam, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Thunder, and Explosion

    Level Up (16 moves / 9 VGMs) (open)

    Lv1 Constrict
    Lv1 Poison Sting
    Lv4 Charge
    Lv7 Acid
    Lv11 Mud-Slap
    Lv16 Tickle
    Lv23 Gastro Acid
    Lv29 Clear Smog
    Lv34 Signal Beam
    Lv37 Poison Jab
    Lv40 Lava Plume
    Lv47 Magic Coat
    Lv53 Acid Spray
    Lv58 Recover
    Lv64 Sludge Wave
    Lv70 Eruption


    TM moves (37 Total / 20 VGMs - 3/2 repeating => 34 / 18 non-repeating) (open)

    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 Solarbeam
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return (counted with Frustration as 1 VGM)
    TM28 Dig
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave (repeat)
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM64 Explosion
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM76 Struggle Bug
    TM84 Poison Jab (repeat)
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute

    Noteworthy attacking moves include all Fire and Poison STAB TMs (except Flame Charge), Thunderbolt, Charge Beam, and Solarbeam.
    Noteworthy non-attacking moves include Calm Mind, Thunder Wave, and Light Screen.
    For flavor I've got Struggle Bug, Dig, Explosion, and Poison Jab (for the cone snail harpoon! It was the most fitting thing I could find).


    Egg Moves (12 moves / 8 VGMs) (open)

    Encore
    Flare Blitz
    Ingrain
    Knock Off
    Leech Life
    Mud Shot
    Rapid Spin
    Stealth Rock
    Stockpile
    Swallow
    Toxic Spikes
    Whirlpool

    Mud Shot and Thunder are for situational coverage, though the bulk of it is primarily support (or flavor). Many of Mollux's support options are available through breeding to limit the number of options that can be used with each other. Rapid Spin is available with Toxic Spikes, Knock Off, and Stealth Rock in various combinations. Knock Off removes items (in lieu of Trick/Switcheroo), which are not available with the egg groups I chose. Ingrain, Leech Life, Whirlpool, and Stockpile/Swallow are in there for some much-needed breeding flavor.


    Legal Breeding Combos + Movepool Rationalization (open)

    Tentacruel: Toxic Spikes + Rapid Spin + Knock Off
    Cloyster: Toxic Spikes + Rapid Spin + Mud Shot + Whirlpool
    Omastar: Haze + Mud Shot
    Kabutops: Rapid Spin + Knock Off + Mud Shot, Rapid Spin + Knock Off + Stealth Rock
    Cradily: Stockpile, Swallow, Ingrain, Stealth Rock (any combo is legal)
    Forretress: Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin + Toxic Spikes
    Shuckle: Stealth Rock + Knock Off + Encore
    Volcarona: Flare Blitz + Morning Sun (both parents)
    Accelgor: Encore + Recover + Leech Life

    Noteworthy Inclusions: Mollux's offensive coverage includes strong special STAB moves, as well as Thunderbolt/Thunder, Mud Shot, Signal Beam, and Hidden Power, leaving it with relatively few options, though enough to get the job done. On the support side, it has a wide variety of options, among them Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Clear Smog, Magic Coat, Knock Off, and Recover, allowing it to perform a wide variety of supporting roles, though no more than two at once in most cases due to breeding restrictions. It can boost its defenses with Acid Armor and Stockpile or provide team support with Light Screen if desired, or boost its offensive capabilities with Charge Beam, Flame Charge Calm Mind, though it will tend to be either too slow or lack necessary coverage to be a proper sweeper. If it so chooses it can run up to 3 of Recover, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and hazards, allowing it to be specialized for support (like Forretress) while still maintaining a semi-offensive presence with its powerful Lava Plume and being able to heal itself with Recover. At first I was opposed to the idea of running a quasi-Forretress set, but Mollux distinguishes itself from both Forretress and support Heatran by sort of combining their roles into one, which would still allow it a niche if it opted not to run one of the (arguably more effective) Recover/Thunder Wave/Toxic + 3 attacks sets. Stopping setup is not one of Mollux's primary intended roles as I understand it, though it can still perform this job with its access to Encore and Clear Smog.

    Noteworthy Disclusions:
    I chose to disclude Hurricane for its utter lack of flavor with Mollux, as well as its largely-unnecessary coverage. Thunderbolt and Thunder are both present for non-rain and rain attacking respectively, and can do that job. Power Gem was discluded also for relative lack of flavor and coverage value. Gunk Shot has poor coverage/accuracy despite its power, and considering Mollux will rarely if ever use mixed sets, it was discluded. Octazooka and Soak could only be bred from the Water 1 egg group, and was deemed not to be flavorfully fitting for level-up. Mollux is too slow to effectively use Magnet Rise and would rather have better moves to survive, or simply switch out to avoid Ground attacks... the debatably-desired benefits are outweighed by other moves I'd rather include. Snatch and Pain Split weren't very flavorful and not competitive enough to merit using over other options, so they're out as well. Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, and Circle Throw are also not flavorfully accurate, nor does Mollux need them to fulfill its role in my opinion, since it can use Clear Smog or Encore to thwart stat-boosting sweepers. Haze was axed due to its redundancy with Clear Smog in order to shrink down my overlarge breeding movepool. Acid Armor was ultimately removed in order to cut down on the included VGMs, as I decided it did not have the right flavor value for Mollux (something like Withdraw or Iron Defense would fit better, but I discluded them for similar reasons).


    As this is my first movepool submission for a CAP project, I hope it is well-recieved. Thanks very much for reading.
  16. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    565
    Final submission.

    Moves with an * are VGMs.
    Level-up moves (17 total (open)
    -- Ember
    -- Poison Sting
    5 Acid
    8 Flash
    11 Pin Missile
    16 Confuse Ray*
    19 Flame Burst
    22 Encore*
    27 Signal Beam*
    30 Recover*
    33 Lava Plume*
    38 Gastro Acid
    41 Sludge Bomb*
    44 Acid Spray*
    49 Overheat*
    52 Morning Sun*
    55 Eruption*

    Comments (open)
    - Pin Missile and Poison Sting fit the cone snail flavour.
    - Ember and Acid are generic low-level STAB moves.
    - Flash, Confuse Ray, and Signal Beam emphasize the lamp flavour.
    - Lava Plume and Eruption are there because I liked the idea that its best naturally-learned fire moves are lava-based. Flame Burst feels like the kind of Fire attack a cone snail would use.
    - Sludge Bomb is there because I hate it when Pokémon don't naturally learn at least one strong move for their STAB types.
    - Recover I felt should be a level-up move in part because other snail/slug Pokémon learned it that way and in part because I included several interesting fringe egg moves and wanted Recover to be legal with them.
    - Gastro Acid, Encore, and Acid Spray were moves I wanted it to learn that seemed to be good enough flavour fits to be level-up moves.
    - Any four consecutive level-up moves include at least one STAB attack, often both STABs. That way no matter what level it is encountered in the wild it's not completely useless on capture.
    - Morning Sun is now a level-up move because it couldn't be an egg move with the groups I chose and Synthesis on a snail is too weird.
    - Overheat is now a level-up move instead of Inferno as it fits the flavour better.

    TM/HM moves (37 total (open)
    TM05 Roar*
    TM06 Toxic*
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power*
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect*
    TM18 Rain Dance*
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration*
    TM22 SolarBeam
    TM24 Thunderbolt*
    TM25 Thunder*
    TM27 Return*
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave*
    TM35 Flamethrower*
    TM36 Sludge Bomb* (repeat)
    TM38 Fire Blast*
    TM42 Facade*
    TM43 Flame Charge*
    TM44 Rest*
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat* (repeat)
    TM56 Fling
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp*
    TM64 Explosion
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash (repeat)
    TM73 Thunder Wave*
    TM84 Poison Jab*
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute*
    HM06 Dive

    Comments (open)
    - Thunder is on the TM list, which means no Hurricane. Hurricane has no flavour on Mollux and is hardly necessary in my opinion.
    - Explosion fit the lava lamp flavour too well. With gen 5 mechanics and Mollux's awful attack I don't think it counts as competitive.
    - Dive because cone snails hang out underwater.
    - Calm Mind has been removed as it does not fit the concept well; in its place, I have finally decided to add Thunder Wave.

    Egg moves (11 total (open)
    Egg groups: Water 1 / Amorphous

    Acid Armor*
    Clear Smog*
    Fire Spin
    Knock Off*
    Mud Shot
    Octazooka
    Spit Up
    Stockpile*
    Swallow
    Switcheroo*
    Toxic Spikes*

    Comments (open)
    - Amorphous because other snailmon are there.
    - Water 1 over Water 3 mostly due to Gastrodon precedence and because some of these moves are unavailable in Water 3.
    - Acid Armor, Clear Smog, Fire Spin, Knock Off, Mud Shot, Stockpile, Switcheroo, and Toxic Spikes were moves I wanted it to have that didn't seem flavourful enough for the level up list.
    - Octazooka, being another Pokémon's signature move, seemed like it wanted to be an egg move rather than anything else.
    - Spit Up and Swallow go along with Stockpile.

    Total moves: 62
    Total VGMs: 34

    Legal egg move combinations (open)
    Acid Armor + Fire Spin (Chandelure)
    Acid Armor + Spit Up + Stockpile + Swallow (Muk)
    Clear Smog + Fire Spin (Chandelure)
    Clear Smog + Spit Up + Stockpile + Swallow (Weezing)
    Knock Off + Mud Shot + Toxic Spikes (Omastar)
    Mud Shot + Octazooka (Octillery)
    Mud Shot + Spit Up + Stockpile + Swallow (Quagsire)
    Switcheroo (Floatzel)


    I've never done this before for CAP, but I'm done detailed movepools for my own fakemons so I'm not without any experience in this. I don't really expect to be picked but for some reason I find this sort of thing fun.
  17. LeviLamprey

    LeviLamprey

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,158
    Just the tiniest of things, but the Heart Scale function is only enabled (assuming a lack of prevos) if it has >4 Lv 1 moves, or it'll just hatch knowing Octazooka and Signal Beam.
    On an unrelated note, I like every single one of the movepools submitted so far, and choosing is pretty tough, but capefeather and Malky's are probably my favourites so far. Malkyrian considered flavour equally with viability, and the result is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. The egg moves also show a lot of pairing thought behind them.
    capefeather's precedence-based movepool also appeals to me for the same reasons, and I have to admit I find Hurricane a weird move to give to Mollux, despite the competitive viability of the move, so the lack of Hurricane on cape's movepool is also a deciding factor for me.
    To be honest, I don't think there are any inherently flawed movepools here so far, and I'd be happy to see any one of them.
  18. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    First time doing this so some feedback would be sweet, anyways here it is
    Final Submission

    Level up
    Show Hide
    Level-Up Moves
    Ember 01
    Constrict 01
    Flash 01
    Withdraw 01
    Withdraw 04
    Poison sting 07
    Mud-slap 11
    Toxic spikes 14
    Rapid spin 17
    Sludge 20
    Acid spray 24
    Gastro acid 32
    Sludge bomb 36
    Morning sun 38
    Lava plume 44
    Gunk shot 50
    Sludge wave 58

    Total 17
    Repeat 1
    Vgm 8

    Tm:
    Show Hide
    Tm moves
    Calm mind tm04
    Toxic tm06
    Venoshock tm09
    Hidden power tm10
    Sunny day tm11
    Hyper beam tm15
    Light screen tm16
    Protect tm17
    Rain dance tm18
    Safeguard tm20
    Frustration tm21
    Solar beam tm22
    Thunderbolt tm24
    Thunder tm25
    Earthquake tm26
    Return tm 27
    Double team Tm32
    Sludge wave tm34 *
    Flamethrower tm35
    Sludge bomb tm36 *
    Fire blast tm38
    Facade tm42
    Flame charge tm43
    Rest tm44
    Attract tm45
    Thief tm46
    Overheat tm50
    Charge beam tm57
    Incinerate tm59
    Will o wisp tm61
    Explosion tm64
    Giga impact tm68
    Flash tm70 *
    Thunder wave tm73
    Poison jab tm84
    Swagger tm87
    Substitute tm90
    Rock smash tm94

    Total moves 38
    Vgm 23 (sludge bomb and sludge wave repeated from level up)
    Repeated from level up 3

    Egg moves:
    Show Hide
    Egg moves water 3 and amorphous
    Aqua ring (shellos line, corsola)
    Acid armor (Grimer line, chain breed from solosis and slugma lines)
    Amnesia (Cradily, gulpin, slugma lines)
    Trick (shuppet line, chain breed solosis line)
    Clear smog (koffing line)
    Heat wave (slugma line)
    Coil (tynamo line)
    Recover (shellos, solosis, and slugma lines)

    total moves 11
    Vgm 8

    69 total moves
    39 vgm

    Flavor reasoning:
    Show Hide
    Flavor reasoning
    Well I'll start off with where I started which is the egg group. To me this has the most to say about a pokemons appearance/ flavor, sometimes even more than the typing. That's why I chose water 1 for the first egg group as mollux is in many ways a water pokemon (it's based off a marine animal and it's ability points to it enjoying water) so I thought it was important to show that. I chose amorphous not so much for its appearance but more so for its typing. Many other poison and fire types are amorphous and some Pokemon I thought it resembled like gastrodon and magcargo were of the amorphous egg group.that leads me to my learn set which I based mostly off of magcargo and muk as they both shared a typing and an egg group. I also replaced some moves like muks harden with things that would fit better flavor wise like withdraw. From the tm list I included more electric type moves than you might expect and that came from the fact that a lava lamp is an electric appliance. Egg moves were mostly for competitive reasons which I'll explain next and move tutor moves I put on what could learn already/ what I thought it could learn.


    Competitive reasoning:
    Show Hide
    Competitive reasoning
    For this I mostly tried to uphold deck's example of how mollux should be used as I fully agreed with it myself. So first of all I focused most of mollux's move to the special side especially offensively as it can use its bulk and sp attack stat very effectively together. However I also tried to limit the number of coverage moves mollux could have as it will already have a powerful hidden power move for coverage and I wanted to make poison coverage more viable. I also gave mollux many opportunities to raise its sp defense and gave it a few key support moves like toxic spikes and light screen. And my last thing to point out is the event move, morning sun. I thought this was very important to include 1. For flavor but more importantly the fact that mollux was given illuminate and solar beam as a required move I thought morning sun would give mollux a good shot to be competitive in the sun by compensating for the lost dry skin recovery.


    If I missed something or if you have any suggestions (especially with fitting morning sun in somewhere else) it would be appreciated if you point it out, thanks!
  19. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    330
    FINAL SUBMISSION

    So this is my movepool Submission. I focused mostly on giving mollux a personality through this movepool and that is where a lot of the flavor comes from for me. I make a few references to ts snail like characteristics. Competitively O wanted to make Mollux A pivot pokemon rather than an all out sweeper or an stall pokemon, and my movepool reflects that idea. I also gave mollusk some utility moves to make somewhat more diverse. So without further ado here is my movepool. Unique VGM's in Bold.

    IN TOTAL I HAVE 60 MOVES AND 33 VERY GOOD MOVES

    Changes Made:
    Octazooka removed from movepool
    Facade added to TM list
    Changed Explosion to Self Destruct in level up moves
    Moved Acid Spray to Egg moves Replaced with Poison Jab
    Added Light Screen, Poison Jab, Thunder, and Thunderbolt to TM list
    Removed Calm mind from TM list
    Completely revamped Egg List for flavor purposes.
    The Fairy Egg group was changed to Water 3
    Tutor moves dropped
    Hurricane Removed from Movepool

    Level Up
    Show Hide
    Level up moves

    1 Tickle
    1 Helping Hand
    1 Tackle
    1 Rapid Spin
    6 Self Destruct (outclassed)
    8 Sludge
    11 Withdraw
    15 Poison Jab
    18 Stockpile

    26 Flame Burst
    29 Charge
    33 Lava Plume
    37 Acid Armor
    41 Sludge Bomb
    45 Sludge Wave
    51 Moonlight
    56 Inferno
    57 Eruption


    18 New Moves 9 New VGM's

    Flavor

    Rather than find some ancient long lost myth that involves a snail to help me craft Mollux’s movepool, I decided to build a movepool that sort of tells a story about mollux and how it grows as a Pokémon. When I first looked at mollux, I thought that it looked like a cute, friendly, innocent Pokémon, So I started off by giving it a couple cheerful and fun moves which I did in the form of Helping Hand and Tickle, both of which speak to Mollux’s demeanor. I also gave it Rapid Spin because I couldn’t fit this move anywhere else, and I also figured spinning in circles really fast is pretty fun, so it kinda works.Unfortunately, paradise is lost at level six when it learns Self Destruct. When it first uses Self Destruct, Mollux isn’t prepared for its adverse effects (getting knocked out) and this scares mollux. Soon after Mollux learns Explosion it also learns sludge, which I imagined was like Mollux’s version of wetting the bed. These two consecutive traumatic events in Mollux’s early development (Explosion and sludge) Mollux gooes from a jubilant character to a rather reclusive Pokémon. To demonstrate this behavior change, I gave Mollux Withdraw, which fits mollux well (because it has a shell) and also shows mollux becomes, well, withdrawn. I also gave it Stockpile, which shows mollux becoming less focused on cooperation and sociality while simultaneously providing mollux with a competitively useable move. Sandwiched between withdraw and stockpile is Poison Jab. My logic behind this was that I didn’t feel like giving mollux 2 non attacking moves back to back and while Mollux was in its Shell, it would defend itself from predators who try to come and eat its non shell parts by using attacks from its snout. I saw artwork of Mollux using a poison jab by projecting a harpoon from its mouthpeice, so it fit what i was looking for so I added it here.

    Mollux’s next attack comes 8 levels later in the form of Flame Burst. The eight levels symbolize the period where mollux was an antisocial snail. I chose lLava Burst to be the first move it learned after this period because Burst sounds involuntary, and I didn’t Imagine Mollux just gradually coming out of its shell (pun intended). Lava Burst shows mollux that there are attacks it can use that involve its shell that won’t knock it out like explosion did. This inspires Mollux to not only reemerge as the socialite it once was, but also to train itself to learn stronger attacks that involve its shell. This new passion to become stronger is symbolized by the move Charge, because the move charge made me think of getting all charged up about something, and that is exactly what happens to mollux. The next move is lava Plume, which flows well with Flame Burst IMO and demonstrates the payoffs of mollux’s effort to become a stronger Pokémon. Sludge Bomb and Sludge Wave follow in this vein. It should Be fairly obvioius how sludge bomb and sludge wave tie into the flavor; mollux is a poison type, so it should have some poison moves. Acid Armor was thrown into the mix of these attacks because I didn’t think having three strong attacking moves in a row was a good idea and it made sense considering Mollux’s typing and poison snail design. Plus, as far as defensive moves go, Acid Armor sounds pretty god damn effrontery.
    The final part of Mollux’s movepool is where it becomes a “black belt karate master” so to speak. It gains its most powerful, low PP, Uber level moves after working so hard to develop its offensive prowesses. I started out with moonlight because I wanted Inferno and Erruption to be learned one after another since they are kinda similar and Eruption makes for a much better last move than Moonlight. Moonlight was chosen over similar moves for flavor purposes; lava lamps are coolest at night and shine with a groovy colored light. Inferno was placed before Eruption because Eruptions sound more powerful than Infernos and because Eruption is simply put the better move. They were put within one level of each other though because they both are related to volcanos so they seem like they should be learned one right after the other.


    Other stuff I want to say about Movepool Flavor

    There is one physical move in the Mollux’s level up moves list. That was by design. I don’t see mollux really charging at anything or physically bashing something’s brains out. Its aesthetic design seems to lend it to special attacking, so moves like poison jab, flare blitz, etc. wer left out of this list.

    As you may or may not have noticed, Mollux’s STAB attacks fall into categories. I gave it a sludge tree (Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, and Sludge), a lava based tree (Flame Burst, Lava Plume, Inferno, and Erruption) I chose these moves because they seemed to fit the Art design better than Gastric acid, Toxic, Poison Sting, etc. on the poison side because snails leave sludge trails and Fire Blast, Flame Wheel, Fire Spin, etc. don’t represent the lava side of the design as well as the moves I chose either.

    Finally the level gaps and the rapid learning of new moves at different points is by design. I waited five levels before having Mollux learn explosion to indicate its early development. The rapid learning of moves after Explosion is supposed to represent its withdrawal from society. The eight level gap before flame burst is its withdrawal period. The steady move learning up until Sludge Wave represents steady growth. The gap before Moonlight is for dramatic effect so to speak, and Eruption and Inferno is to represent that they are kinda related. Just so you know that there is a method to the madness.

    Competitive Analysis


    In the Level Up moves, I provided Mollux with Lava Plume, Eruption, Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb, Acid Spray, Acid Armor, Stockpile, and Octazooka (although this isn’t considered a VGM). Lava Plume can provide utility on more defensive Mollux Sets, while Eruption has pretty good synergy with Dry Skin which makes it an option If you want some Fire STAB on your drizzle Team. Sludge Wave is your strongest Poison STAB, so It is great to have. Sludge Bomb is mostly outclassed by Sludgewave, but who knows, somebody might be attracted to that extra poison percentage. Acid Spray is good utility and can force a ton of switches, especially when you consider Mollux’s frightening special attack. Acid Armor and Stockpile are stat boosting options on the defensive side if your into that sort of thing. Octazooka gives Mollux necessary Coverage in Drizzle. Generally Octazooka is useless, but if you use it in rain, it has an effective Base Power of 97.5 and frees up a spot for a hidden power, which I thought would be useful.

    TM Moves
    Show Hide


    TM06- Toxic
    TM 09- Venoshock
    TM 10- Hidden Power
    TM 11- Sunny Day
    TM 15- Hyper Beam
    TM 16- Light Screen
    TM 17- Protect
    TM 18- Rain Dance
    TM 21- Frustration
    TM 22- Solarbeam
    TM 24- Thunderbolt
    TM 25- Thunder

    TM 27- Return
    TM 28- Dig
    TM 32- Double Team
    TM 34- Sludge Wave
    TM 35- Flamethrower
    TM 36- Sludge Bomb
    TM 38- Fire Blast
    TM 42- Facade
    TM 44- Rest

    TM 45- Attract
    RM 48- Round
    TM 50- Overheat
    TM 59- Incinerate
    TM 61- Will-o-Wisp
    TM 64- Explosion

    TM 68- Giga Impact
    TM 70- Flash
    TM 74- Gyro Ball
    TM 84- Poison Jab
    TM 87- Swagger
    TM 90- Substitute

    30 New Moves 18 New VGM's

    The TM list is fairly straightforward. Basically I started off by giving Mollux all of the Fire and Poison type TM's hold Flame Charge and then I gave it the TM's almost Every pokemon learns like Return and Hyper Beam. I then gave it Solar Beam for the Drought coverage, Thunder for the Drizzle Coverage, and thunderbolt for coverage in all weather conditions. I then moved on to flavor. I gave it Gyro ball because the shell is kinda round and because shuckle and Magcargo get it, so it fits well and I gave it light screen and Flash because I felt that they helped describe the Lava Lamp part of the design. I didn't give Mollux Torment or Snatch because they didn't fit the cute innocent personality I was painting for Mollux.

    Egg Moves Egg group Water 3/Amorphous
    Show Hide



    Confuse Ray
    Flash
    Toxic Spikes
    Wish
    Trick

    Fire Spin
    Gastro Acid
    Rapid Spin
    Acid Spray

    Rollout
    Wrap
    Poison sting
    Explosion
    Recover

    12 New Moves 6 New VGM's

    Important Egg Illegalities

    Wish/Trick +Acid Spray/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin
    Recover+Wish/Trick
    Recover+Acid Spray/Toxic Spokes/Rapid Spin
    Fire Spin+ anything

    Well, I had some moves that I wanted mollux to get that I just couldn’t make room for anywhere else, so those found their way onto the movelist. These moves are Wish, Trick, Fire Spin, Toxic spikes, Rapid Spin, Recover and Acid Spray. The remaining egg moves were chosen for flavor. Confuse Ray and Flash were added to reinforce the whole lava lamp idea and IMO no moves can do it better. Gastro Acid, Poison sting, and wrap were thrown in because I felt I haven’t done enough to showcase Mollux’s snail-like characteristics. Rollout and Explosion were all inspired by the other shelled Pokémon, and since they all, or a majority of at the very least had Rollout and explosion. Plus, Explosion just seams to fit a Pokémon with a lava lamp in my opinion, so yeah.

    The Amorphous egg group was chosen because I saw a really strong resemblance between Mollux and Magcargo. One is a volcanic slug while the other is a snail with a lava lamp on its back. They were made for each other. I also threw it into Water 3 because all of the water dwelling invertibrates reside. I had my hesitations putting a fire type in a water group, but looking at the other pokes in the group, I feel it fits in nicely.


    My Vision for Mollux

    This movepool was designed to make Mollux a natural offensive or defensive pivot, but without turning mollux into a set up sweeper or an all out stallmon. To do this, I decided to give Mollux A strong fire STAB, a Poison STAB, its choice of Thunder and Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power. This isn’t a lot by any means, but Poison, Fire, and Electric have perfect neutral coverage and Hidden Power provides a good wild card option, so Mollux will never find itself at a loss for coverage. I also gave Mollux a diverse batch of support options including Toxic Spikes, Wish, Rapid Spin, Fire Spin, Will-o-Wisp, Trick, and Toxic. These moves are diverse in function, and this allows mollux to fill various rolls based on its teams needs. I don’t expect players to use over two of these options, and I feel this is a good thing because like I mentioned before, I want mollux to function as a pivot and not a wall. I feel that thanks to Mollux’s offensive presence and varied support options, it can fill multiple team needs and will see substantial use in the OU metagame. I imagine it will act like Heatran: a Pokémon that manages to succeed thanks to its support options, its ability to pressure opponents with its offensive capabilities, and finds its ways onto many teams thanks to its versatility.


    Questionable Move Exclusions Addressed

    Calm Mind, Charge Beam, and Flame Charge- I excluded these moves because I do not want to become another sweeper in the OU metagame. We have enough of those in my opinion and I wanted to differentiate mollux from the crowd. I know that Flame charge and Charge Beam can be very flavorful on Mollux, but so could shell smash. In CAP we sometimes abandon flavorful attacks when those attacks change the competitive role of the CAP. Perhaps my vision for CAP 3 is different than yours, and I can respect that, but I was aiming to create a Pokémon that served as a powerful pivot, and I felt that these three boosting moves threatened this goal.

    Thunder Wave- This is another move that provides good flavor for CAP that I decided to omit. Mollux already learnstwo status inducing moves in toxic, and will-o-wisp. Most Pokémon with multiple status inducing moves have one slot for a status effect, and the various status inducing moves fight for a spot on a moveset (the exceptions are some sleep inducing mons because they can onlyput one Pokémon to sleep). If we throw thunder Wave into the mix, mollux would have three status moves fighting for one spot. Now the concept of this CAP was to make a bad typing good because of its typing. Will-o-wisp and Toxic are cornerstones of most Fire and Poison types respectively, and if either one sees a nice amount of use, then I would say that is a step in the right direction to declare this CAP project a success. Thunder Wave however has nothing to do with Mollux’s typing, and threatens to steal the thunder from two attacks that do. I didn’t feel like taking the risk of Thunder Wave overshadowing Mollux’s two typing based status moves, so I decided not to include it in my movepool.

    Hurricane- I didn’t give Mollux hurricane because I wanted mollux to have thunder and thunderbolt. Thunder because it fits flavor wise with the whole electric lamp theme and because it provides better coverage than hurricane, and I wanted Mollux to have thunderbolt so that it could have an electric attack to use in the sun. If I wanted Hurricane and Thunder, I would have to list them as egg moves. However, I couldn’t have Thunderbolt as a TM without Thunder, because no Pokémon has that so it doesn’t make much sense. That would mean I would have to have Thunderbolt as an egg move, but this also seemed weird since no non electric type has both Thunder and Thunderbolt as egg moves. Ultimately, I decided it was just cleaner and simpler to have Thunder and Thunderbolt as TM moves and not have Hurricane at all, so that is what I did.

    Signal Beam, Power Gem, and Octazooka- My Mollux movepool has far fewer coverage options compared to other proposed Mollux sets. This is mostly because I couldn’t find a place to squeeze them in. However, in my opinion these moves aren’t very flavorful and actually don’t cost Mollux too much in terms of coverage. After all, Poison Fire and Electric hits everything for at least neutral damage and even in rain a neutral Fire Blast is more powerful than a neutral Signal Beam and Power gem and just weaker than a neutral octazooka (but if you use octazooka, you’ll get walled by Ferrothorn). So really, rain or shine a Fire/Electric/Poison coverage is probably Mollux’s best choice, and in the event that you want to take out select threats (which is really the only case in which you might use any one of Power Gem, Octazooka, and Signal Beam) you always have Hidden Power, so really coverage should never be an issue for Mollux. Although I would have liked to have some of these moves in Mollux’s movepool, not having them isn’t a huge deal competitively speaking.

    Stealth Rock- I didn’t give Mollux stealth rock because OU already has a bunch of stealth rockers and I feel like Mollux would be outclassed by a ton of pokes, and especially Heatran, in setting up rocks. Plus SR made no flavor sense to me and Mollux already can set up Toxic Spikes, so stealth Rock is pretty unnecessary.
  20. Fritzmonger

    Fritzmonger

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    Final Submission

    Another first timer here. This is what I came up with.

    Level up:
    Show Hide
    1 Astonish
    1 Smog
    1 Harden
    5 Acid
    11 Smokescreen
    16 Wrap
    21 Ember
    26 Acid Spray
    31 Haze
    36 Slam
    41 Fire Spin
    46 Iron Defense
    51 Poison Gas
    56 Gunk Shot
    61 Slack Off

    66 Body Slam
    71 Lava Plume

    Nothing too drastic here, only the two overly powerful attacks, one off the weaker attack stat and mainly moves that won't see competitive play (cos gamefreak loves naturally competitive pokemon). A lot of the gas based moves are relevant to the lava lamp half of the design and the hazy '60s era, where the gasses/flames erupt from the top of the lamp shell. Fire Spin and Iron Defense seemed to fit better with the idea of a lava lamp over Flamethrower and Acid Armour.

    Recover can only be bred from Cradily, which means both Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes are incompatible with it. The question is, is a Slack Off, Rapid Spin/Toxic Spikes, ?, ? set unwanted, overpowered or oppose a part of the concept? I think to all three the answer is no, to be a more effective rapid spinner, reliable recovery is needed with Mollux's typing. Is Morning Sun a better recovery move competitively or flavour wise in this situation? People will say otherwise, but I think the difference is negligible given weather will not always be in favour and the recovery amount is set.


    17 Moves
    7 VGM

    TMs:
    Show Hide
    04 Calm Mind
    06 Toxic

    09 Venoshock
    10 Hidden Power
    11 Sunny Day

    15 Hyper Beam
    16 Light Screen
    17 Protect
    18 Rain Dance

    20 Safeguard
    21 Frustration
    22 Solarbeam
    24 Thunderbolt
    25 Thunder
    27 Return

    32 Double Team
    34 Sludge Wave
    35 Flamethrower
    36 Sludge Bomb
    38 Fire Blast

    41 Torment
    42 Facade
    43 Flame Charge
    44 Rest

    45 Attract
    46 Thief
    48 Round
    50 Overheat
    56 Fling
    59 Incinerate
    61 Will-o-wisp
    63 Embargo
    64 Explosion
    68 Giga Impact
    70 Flash
    73 Thunderwave
    77 Psych Up
    84 Poison Jab
    87 Swagger
    90 Substitute
    H1 Cut
    H4 Strength

    Most people's TM lists look the same, minor differences here is the lack of Payback and Charge Beam and the additions of Psych Up, Torment, Explosion, Embargo and Fling.

    I did not feel payback fit flavour wise and Charge Beam was in a similar boat (I really wasn't keen on Thunder earlier in the process). With Calm Mind available, in combination with Thunderbolt, that is ultimately a more reliable way of boosting SpA and having a strong electric attack.

    One strategy that was flying around earlier was tricking Flame/Toxic Orbs, however the lack of Trick makes Fling necessary to half pull the same maneuver, causing damage and the status effect, but not gaining their item. Embargo and Knock Off can complete the effect, but moveslots would then be an issue.


    42 Moves
    22 VGM

    Egg (Water 3):
    Show Hide
    Bubble (Kingler, Tentacruel)
    Confuse Ray (Cradily, Tentacruel, Kabutops, Corsola, Drapion)
    Gastro Acid (Cradily)
    Knock Off (Crawdaunt, Drapion, Tentacruel, Kingler, Omastar, Kabutops, Armaldo, Carracosta, Archeops)
    Rapid Spin (Tentacruel, Cloyster, Kabutops, Armaldo)
    Recover (Cradily)
    Toxic Spikes (Tentacruel, Cloyster, Drapion, Omastar)

    These egg moves give some final utility in the form of Knock Off, Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes, all viable moves to help complete a bulky supporter. Bubble is the only Water move (bar HP Water) that I have in this move set.


    7 Moves
    4 VGM

    Total 67 moves
    34 VGM

    Set Comments:
    Offensively, Mollux has STAB access to Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Lava Plume, Sludge Wave and Sludge Bomb, with Thunder/bolt, Solarbeam in sun and Hidden Power for coverage. To boost its own power, it has Calm Mind, Psych Up to pinch opponents boosts, Iron Defense and Acid Spray to lower the opponents defenses.

    It has the ability to status the opponent with Toxic, WOW, Fling, T-wave and Body Slam along with the side effects of its STAB and electric moves, can trap opponents with Fire Spin and Wrap, act as a Hazer, spinner and toxic spiker, all with recovery provided by Slack Off or Recover.

    Outside of Bubble and HP Water, there are no water type moves in this set. I think this is important as water type moves hit the majority of our designated ground/rock type counters super effectively (and I think near KOs, don't have the calcs), and HP water is the most powerful allowed water move. I was not keen on a choice set that had both Octozooka and HP Grass/Ice (for Gastrodon/Dragonite) to cover as many counters as possible. On a choice set, I would like to make the decision made by players on Hidden Power type to affect which of Mollux's counters can and can not safely switch in. Soak was left out deliberately as I believed it went against the concept as I saw the set of Soak/Thunder(bolt)/Recover/filler not benefitting the part of the concept that made Mollux's typing it's selling point.
  21. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    377
    Okay. Just pointing out that Starmie is genderless, meaning it can't breed with Mollux, meaning there's no way for Mollux to get Reflect Type on your moveset.

    Speaking of which, while it's not a problem with the moveset above: to people in general, I see Manaphy listed a few times. Same problem.
  22. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Forrestflamerunner: I like your levelup movepool, it's unusual. Just wanted to point out that if it learns Sludge Bomb and Sludge Wave through levelup, it should probably be able to learn them through TM too (just a nitpick). With regards to your Poison Jab flavor question, I added it myself mainly because Mollux is based off of a cone snail, which fires toxic harpoons, and got the analogue that way. Of course, since Mollux's shell is a lava lamp rather than a firing chamber... I suppose it makes sense to omit it... hmm. Maybe I should cut it out of mine. Regarding egg moves/groups, I don't much agree with that.... so that's a bit of a killer for me. I maintain that Water 3/Bug is best both in terms of flavor and as a good source of competitive egg moves. Overall, I think I would agree that Thunder Wave is unnecessary for Mollux, though that's just my opinion.

    Fritzmonger's is allright too, needless to say, I prefer his choice of egg moves/groups to most of the others (save BMB and myself). I think my main issue was yours was the use of a Recover clone (Slack Off) in the primary movepool.... which is odd because I see that you have Recover as an egg move. Why not use Morning Sun in place of Slack Off to provide some incentive for breeding Recover? (More of a flavor issue I suppose.)

    MCBarrett, you could add some egg moves from the likes of other mollusk-like Pokemon in the Water 1 and Amorphous groups, like Gastrodon, Magcargo, and Eelektross. Charge and Coil from Eelektross in particular seem noteworthy additions in that regard... Mostly though that'd be for flavor. Speaking of flavor, if you want to be REALLY correct with your egg group choice... I'll say it again, it'd be Water 3. Water 1 is primarily (not all, mind, but primarily) amphibious mammals, reptiles and other vertebrate creatures, where Water 3 is mainly for invertebrate and non-fish creatures (IE Tentacruel, Cradily, Omastar, etc etc). Amorphous does make sense to me, though. Also, I don't know if I care for your use of Tutor and Event moves in Mollux's movepool. In BW (I assume Mollux is intended to originate in Gen 5) there are no tutors save for Draco Meteor and the elemental hyperbeams/pledges, and Dream World is a better source of exclusive moves than 'events', I personally think (though really, why not just stick Morning Sun in his levelup moves? *shrug*).

    LevilLamprey: I assume you're mainly speaking to me regarding the Heart Scale moves? Thank you for pointing that out, I think I'll change that right away.

    I might borrow level-up movepool ideas from some of you guys, would that particularly bother anyone? .__. I look at it as building the best movepool possible, and that drawing inspiration from others is... acceptable...

    In any case, I've made some changes to mine.
    - removed Octazooka and Flash from level-up, moved Signal Beam to later level-up, added Tickle and Clear Smog to level-up
    - removed Heat Wave from egg moves, added Haze and Mud-Slap
  23. Mari

    Mari

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    191
    FINAL SUBMISSION

    My submission:

    68 Moves, 35 VGM

    bold
    = VGM
    italic = dublicate

    Learning by level
    Total moves: 17 / Total VGM: 9
    Show Hide

    1 Withdraw
    1 Smog
    5 Incinerate
    10 Wrap
    14 Acid
    19 Confuse Ray
    23 Rapid Spin
    28 Acid Spray
    32 Lava Plume
    37 Stockpile
    37 Swallow
    37 Spit Up
    41 Clear Smog
    45 Magic Coat
    50 Overheat
    54 Power Swap
    59 Sludge Wave


    Learning by TM/HM
    Total w/o repetition: 36 / Total VGM: 20
    Show Hide

    4 Calm Mind
    6 Toxic
    9 Venoshock
    10 Hidden Power
    11 Sunny Day
    15 Hyper Beam
    16 Light Screen
    17 Protect
    18 Rain Dance
    20 Safeguard
    21 Frustration
    22 Solar Beam
    25 Thunder
    27 Return <- copy of Frustration
    32 Double Team
    34 Sludge Wave
    35 Flamethrower
    36 Sludge Bomb
    38 Fire Blast
    42 Facade
    43 Flame Charge
    44 Rest
    45 Attract
    48 Round
    50 Overheat
    57 Charge Beam
    59 Incinerate
    60 Quash
    61 Will-O-Wisp
    62 Acrobatics
    63 Embargo
    64 Explosion
    66 Payback
    68 Giga Impact
    70 Flash
    76 Struggle Bug
    84 Poison Jab
    87 Swagger
    90 Substitute


    Learning by breeding
    Egg Group: Amorphous/Water 1
    Total: 12 / Total VGM: 4
    Show Hide

    Amnesia
    Aqua Ring
    Final Gambit
    Gastro Acid
    Memento
    Mud-Slap
    Power Gem
    Recover
    Recycle
    Toxic Spikes
    Water Pulse
    Whirlpool

    Notable allowed egg move combinations:
    Amnesia+Final Gambit+Water Pulse+Recycle: Slowbro
    Amnesia+Gastro Acid+Water Pulse+Mud Slap+Recover: Gastrodon
    Aqua Ring+Water Pulse+Power Gem+Recover: Corsola
    Memento+Recover: Frilish
    Toxic Spikes+Water Pulse+Whirlpool: Omanite (Toxic Spikes via Tentacruel)
    Toxic Spikes+Amnesia: Garbodor

    Did I forget anything?


    Dream World: Ability Dry Skin
    Total w/o repetation: 3 / Total VGM: 2
    Show Hide
    Knock-Off
    Disable
    Rest
    Sleep Talk



    Whole alphabetical list
    Show Hide
    Acid
    Acid Spray
    Acrobatics
    Amnesia
    Aqua Ring
    Attract
    Calm Mind
    Charge Beam
    Clear Smog
    Confuse Ray
    Disable
    Double Team
    Embargo
    Explosion
    Facade
    Final Gambit
    Fire Blast
    Flame Charge
    Flamethrower
    Flash
    Frustration/Return
    Gastro Acid
    Giga Impact
    Hidden Power
    Hyper Beam
    Incinerate
    Knock-off
    Lava Plume
    Light Screen
    Magic Coat
    Memento
    Mud Slap
    Overheat
    Payback
    Poison Jab
    Power Gem
    Power Swap
    Protect
    Quash
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Recycle
    Rest
    Round
    Safeguard
    Sleep Talk
    Sludge Bomb
    Sludge Wave
    Smog
    Solar Beam
    Spit Up
    Stockpile
    Struggle Bug
    Substitute
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Swallow
    Thunder
    Toxic
    Toxic Spikes
    Venoshock
    Water Pulse
    Whirlpool
    Will-O-Wisp
    Withdraw
    Wrap


    Offensive moves (14)
    Show Hide

    Charge Beam
    Final Gambit
    Fire Blast
    Flamethrower
    Hidden Power
    Lava Plume
    Overheat
    Power Gem
    Sludge Bomb
    Sludge Wave
    Solar Beam
    Thunder
    Water Pulse
    Venoshock


    Support moves (32)
    Show Hide

    Acid Spray
    Amnesia
    Calm Mind
    Clear Smog
    Confuse Ray
    Disable
    Embargo
    Flame Charge
    Gastro Acid
    Knock-off
    Light Screen
    Memento
    Magic Coat
    Power Swap
    Protect
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Recycle
    Rest
    Safeguard
    Sleep Talk
    Struggle Bug
    Stockpile
    Substitute
    Sunny Day
    Toxic
    Toxic Spikes
    Water Ring
    Whirlpool
    Will-O-Wisp
    Wrap


    Holy crap
    Show Hide

    Acid
    Acrobatics
    Attract
    Double Team
    Explosion
    Facade
    Flash
    Frustration
    Giga Impact
    Hyper Beam
    Incinerate
    Mud Slap
    Payback
    Poison Jab
    Quash
    Return
    Round
    Smog
    Spit Up
    Swagger
    Swallow
    Withdraw
  24. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,295
    Okay, entirely aesthetic feedback time:

    nyttyn: Looks solid, but you may want to change the order of Eruption and Heat Wave / Inferno in your movepool, as typically Eruption is a last-level move, or close to, and generally moves increase in base power as a Pokemon's level increases. I think I already covered everything else about that movepool, though.

    Malkyrian: Nothing wrong with it, but I would question whether 22 moves in the level-up list is not a bit much, when most Pokemon do not have more than 15 or 16. Certainly I think that some of the flavour moves could go in egg moves, but it's your call. I'm not fond of the DW exclusives but as it's necessary to have Hurricane and Thunder exclusive, it shouldn't be a problem.

    LouisCyphre: A list of egg move legalities / illegalities would be nice. Other than that, no complaints here.

    capefeather: "lol precedent". I must admit, it's a fairly convincing argument, though. Not sure on Rollout, if only because most Gen V Poison-types just happen to be round, and since Mollux has only a half-cone it would just end up spinning around in a circle, but if you're happy with it... anyway, nothing else to note. Torment isn't a VGM so I doubt you'll be disqualified for it. Also, not sure about that Egg set, but no reason to add extra fluff if you don't want to. I will do my level best to ignore the event.

    ZhengTann: Again, 20 moves is somewhat more than the usual number for level-up moves. Also, you ought to include a list of egg move illegalities. Also, I'm not entirely sure where you are getting your ingame tutors from - the Pt and HGSS Tutors don't exist in BW, after all.

    The Reptile: I think you'll need a more detailed list of illegalities than the one you've already given. Other than that, moves such as Facade, Round, and Giga Impact are usually definite inclusions on all fully-evolved Pokemon, so you may want to think about including those. 26 moves in level up is a full 10 more than the usual limit of 16 - not sure whether that was intentional, but it seems excessive. Only other thing I can see is that Aqua Ring and Coil seem like rather bland moves to end a level-up list on, especially when the highest-level moves are typically the most powerful.

    breh: Yes, Frustration and Return count as 1 VGM for counting purposes. Rain Dance is supposed to be a VGM, but Venoshock is not. Nothing else I can see.

    Korski: Nothing to change aesthetically.

    Banryu: Uncannily similar to mine, but other than that, nothing really wrong with it.

    Nyktos: Nothing to speak of barring the Synthesis question, and as you said, there's no real way to avoid having to use it.

    MCBarrett: Again, Pt and HGSS Move Tutors don't exist in BW. Other than that, there's nothing that sticks out, save possibly changing your formatting a tad to make it a bit easier on the old eyes.

    forestflamerunner: 19 moves in level-up is quite a few, and Explosion at lv.6 is a bit eyebrow-raising, since typically it's quite a high-level move (the only exceptions I can think of are the Regis). Also, you said that you gave it all the moves that all Pokemon get by TM, yet you didn't give it Facade. Also, egg illegalities would be helpful. Not sure about your move tutors, but it's a nice idea I suppose.

    Fritzmonger: Starmie is genderless, so cannot pass on Recover or Rapid Spin. Nothing aesthetic to change.

    Mari: You have listed the combination of Memento and Toxic Spikes as being learned by "Toxic Spikes" - I do not believe this combination is legal. Nothing else here.

    ---

    Take what you will from this.
  25. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Thanks for the feedback, BMB. Any similarities between ours are coincidental, trust me. :0 I started working on my post before yours was up. If yours HAD been up then I probably would have neglected to post mine, so I prefer to look at it in the light that we simply had similar thought processes on it.

    I'm a little worried that my egg movepool might be a tad swollen, actually. Have been trying to work out what would be best to remove while allowing Mollux to still have optimal versatility.
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