EDIT: Warning; a wild extremely huge post appeared
Before I start, can I just say: Please stop abusing formatting in your posts. I'm really finding it difficult to read some peoples' posts. Thanks.
Anyway, I'd like to vouch for the following typings:
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Bug / Psychic
Why the typing is considered bad.
As far as passive damage goes, this is one of the worst ones about. The holy triumvirate of weaknesses to Stealth Rock, U-turn, and Pursuit, alongside susceptibility to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, sandstorm and hail, ensures a pretty huge weakness to passive damage. This, when coupled with six weaknesses, to Fire, Rock, Flying, Ghost, Dark, and Bug, makes it a pretty poor typing defensively. Offensively, it's not much better. While the two types have some offensive overlap - Psychic takes care of Poison and Fighting, while Bug takes care of Dark and Psychic - they still leave it painfully weak to Steel-types. And as we are all aware, no one coverage move can take care of all Steel-types. So in terms of a metagame niche in OU, it is altogether poor in all respects.
What positive qualities it brings that can make it defining positively.
When you look at its resistances, important resistances to Ground and Fighting immediately stick out - which is not, on the face of it, terribly helpful, since both are frequently paired with Rock-type attacks. Its resistances do make it a pretty decent answer to Reuniclus and Virizion, and that's something. Of course, its greatest redeeming quality is its relatively good STAB combination, which while still lacklustre in OU, owing to all the Steel-types here, there, and everywhere, is good enough to be usable. Its typing does give it resistances - it should not, at any rate, be hard to switch in to some Pokemon at least. At any rate, it is its offensive combination that defines it positively, and very little else.
What role it could fit given its weaknesses and defining strengths.
Nearly all Pokemon in the game can fit the bulky attacker mould given the right tools, regardless of type; however, I think that it would be a waste of the concept to simply introduce another powerful bulky attacker into the metagame. So what specific niche can a Pokemon of this nature occupy? Something defensive would be difficult, as unless we give it Magic Guard (which I am not in favour of) we will be left with a Stealth Rock-weak wall, which is something that - as far as I am aware of - there is not, presently, in OU at all. However, on the other hand, to create an offensive Pokemon would likely be pointless, since, well... anyone can make a good offensive Pokemon, despite its weakness to Steel-types. What I really want to see from this is for it to occupy a niche similar to that of Utility Cloyster - something that may well be used for attacking occasionally, but can also be used for a more offensive utility alternative. Another option would be for it to act as a lure. The possibilities with this typing are very much aplenty.
Is this the worst typing that could be selected and still fulfill the above discussion points competently?
Yep. The closest thing with similar weaknesses to passive damage is Ice/Psychic, which, yes, also happens to have unresisted STAB outside of Steel-types and weaknesses to just about every passive damage type imaginable, but is not affected by hail. So yes, Bug/Psychic is very slightly worse. Just a little bit. Well, OK, you can't hit Jirachi for neutral damage and you're complete Bullet Punch fodder, but *details*. Anyway, Ice/Psychic is even more unlikely to pull off a defensive set, so much so that I would consider it more or less impossible without Magic Guard.
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Ice / Steel
Why the typing is considered bad.
Well, this one's almost as bad as Rock/Steel, but trades the 4x Ground weakness and 2x Water weakness for a 2x Ground weakness and 4x Fire weakness. So, in summary, that's not one, but two 4x weaknesses to common attacking types, in addition to a third weakness to an even more common attacking type. Offensively speaking, it's not much better. It's still royally beaten up by all Fire-types, Water-types, and Steel-types - that's three very common types that almost entirely block out the STAB combination. Whichever way you look at it, this typing is pretty poor.
What positive qualities it brings that can make it defining positively.
Ice/Steel is one of those typings we've been wanting for a long time, for the reason that it seems to be an almost perfect Dragon killer. Ferrothorn can stick itself in the way of CB Haxorus Outrage but can't really kill it back - this would be a Pokemon with the potential to switch into a Dragon-type and kill it outright. Most obvious problem here? Yeah, most Dragons seem to carry around Fire- and Ground-type attacks. Unfortunately. But - and this is a very big but - this is a niche that is as yet unfulfilled - the universal dragon slayer. As far as my desire for this Pokemon to have a viable niche goes, this one is pretty big - and the typing plays a pretty massive part in it. I mean, the single biggest part in it. Ice gives it the KOs it needs and Steel gives it the resistances it needs - 10 in all.
What role it could fit given its weaknesses and defining strengths.
Universal Dragon counter? Why not? Something we've all been dreaming of for a long while, which is both a completely unfilled metagame niche and a way for us to fit the concept quite easily. There could be no argument that the typing was the deciding factor, even if we were to give it a little "help" with Flash Fire, Solid Rock, or Levitate to cancel out some of its weaknesses. Of course, that's not all it could potentially do. As Deck already pointed out, it would make a pretty excellent hail Pokemon thanks to all its resistances, should we choose to go down that route, or even a hail starter, despite an inability to combat any of the other 4 weather starters (besides Abomasnow, who is irrelevant).
Is this the worst typing that could be selected and still fulfill the above discussion points competently?
Ice is pretty much the worst type you could possibly pair with Steel, though Steel is not the worst type you could pair with Ice. However - and I mean this however - this is probably one of the only typings that could make a successful universal Dragon counter without going overboard on the stats, as well as being one of the best typings for a hail summoner or abuser, despite its many, many weaknesses.
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There are also a couple of other typings I would like to just briefly mention for sake of, well, whatever it may help.
Fire / Flying is one I have brought up here and there, and I still believe it would make an excellent choice. The ability to take on Pokemon such as Scizor, Heatran, and Lucario with next to no fuss gives it an important metagame niche, and as somebody who loved using and hated facing Moltres in DPP UU and occasionally in DPP OU, I am quite certain that it would be possible to make a successful defensive Fire/Flying; however, it would almost require Magic Guard in order to be successful. In a similar vein I rather liked the idea of
Bug / Flying and
Ice / Flying for their individual merits, as well as for my insatiable and rather unhealthy desire to see a successful Bug/Flying (I am quite confident that even with Magic Guard it would need a great deal more to be successful, but that's just me).
The other typing I found intriguing, actually, was
Fire / Rock, though for different reasons than the ones Deck Knight proposed - With Dry Skin, it would act as a rather excellent check to most rain teams, or even on rain teams, while at the same time not being overly powerful on or against sun teams for sake of losing health every turn. For example, it could quite easily pick apart Politoed, Starmie, Tentacruel, Ferrothorn, Scizor, and the like with minimal effort. Yes, I am well aware that Fire/Electric would probably be better for the same purpose, but I am of the opinion that Fire/Electric is too good a typing to be allowed. More on that later. Lastly,
Bug / Grass is nice for that lucrative Grass-typing that gives a Water-, a Grass-, and an Electric-type resistance, so many a yay there. Again, this would give us a niche in taking on rain teams, as well as possibly sand teams thanks to the Fighting- and Ground-type resistances. 'ray.
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Now, I'm going to try to explain why I don't like certain typings. As I'm sure you're all aware, I really don't like most mono-types for how limited they are in terms of what we can accomplish, as well as what can be done with them, and even how bad they are to begin with. As I have said before, the only real limiting factor for a mono-type is its lack of dual STAB and hence coverage; this is to an extent made up for by generally improved defensive ability. For example, mono-Normal has been done so many times it's slightly annoying. We know how an offensive Normal-type would work (Tauros, Zangoose, Ursaring, even Arceus) and how a defensive one would work (Blissey, Snorlax, Miltank), and there is very little left to discuss or explore. All mono-types are similarly limited in the same way. A word on Poison: It is hardly a poor type simply because it hits very few things super effectively. Like Normal, it has a great deal of neutral coverage, and unlike Normal, it has resistances to play off as well. The combination of Earthquake and Crunch, or something similar, for coverage, ought to be ample to enable it to be effective. There is very little challenge here. The only case this doesn't happen is if we attempt to make a defensively-inclined Fire- or Ice-type, and I feel that these are too general to enable it to carve a specific metagame niche.
Now, on to specific typings:
Electric / Fire - This is far too good, in my honest opinion. You may well say it has a 4x Ground weakness and a Stealth Rock weakness, but... it still has seven cracking resistances, an amazing STAB combination, and the ability to take out an alarmingly large number of OU's biggest threats. I don't see what we'd be doing to make it better, bar making Heatran v2.
Fire / Ice - I am not honestly convinced that, even with Magic Guard, this Pokemon would be even remotely usable in OU - at least, not without significant other help. Being totally screwed over by all Water- and Fire-types, more or less, is a pretty poor start, unless we're giving this thing access to Electric-type attacks as well. The trouble is that even with all this, I don't see what Fire/Ice could ever turn out to be, besides a powerful attacker. I just don't think it's worth the hassle. It might be fun, but in the end rather limited.
Grass / Ice - Nothing wrong with it in theory, but it's still pretty handily beaten by all Fire- and Steel-types and there's not much it can really accomplish in a defensive sense. Though, I will admit that it could be a nice answer to rain teams. Trouble is that we've already had one of those - Abomasnow - and I feel that building a stronger variant wouldn't accomplush much that the original couldn't already do, besides being a bit stronger.
Ground / Rock - Rhyperior tried and was rubbish, but then it was pretty slow. The only Rock/Grounds with a Speed stat over 70 are Pupitar and Onix, iirc. EdgeQuake is an amazing STAB combination but there is basically nothing around to use it effectively. I actually think that this is hardly a poor typing - it definitely has a great deal of plus points and the Ground-type is a great asset. I don't see this as making over a bad typing - it's already pretty solid.
Ice / Poison - Well... it's bad, but it's not that bad. Honestly I can't really see what the point of it would be, it's essentially trading a Fighting weakness for a Ground weakness. I can't see any real niches for it though, which is why I don't particularly like it that much. There's nothing wrong with it as a choice, but... it sort of doesn't have a lot we can do with it.
Ice / Rock - Somebody suggests make the worst typing in the game and everything snowballs. Ice/Rock, or as I like to call it, the "punching bag" is back on the menu. Yup, Ice/Rock is here, the typing with a 4x weakness to both Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, and nice weaknesses to Water, Grass, and Ground besides. But it's not all bad... it has a bunch of nifty resistances to Flying, Poison, Normal... yeah. Oh, and Ice I guess, which is most often paired with Water or Ground, unfortunately. As far as the offensive combination goes, it, like just about every other typing here, can't do toffee to Steel-types, and would probably run into trouble against Water- and Fighting-types, given half the chance. Of course, saying it can't do anything to Steel-types isn't totally accurate - It can still hit Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Heatran for neutral damage, which only leaves Metagross, Magnezone, Lucario and Jirachi in OU as problematic. Yeah. I just have difficulty seeing how this Pokemon would actually work without being, well, covered in little bonuses. Without big defensive stats it can't switch in on anything. Without big offensive stats it can't really stop other stuff from switching in on it. To be a big offensive threat it would probably need Shell Smash or some similar boosting move, while to be a big defensive threat it would in all honesty probably need Wonder Guard. I just do not think that Ice/Rock is a feasible typing purely for the amount of support it would need to be effective, which I am trying to shy away from as much as possible. A good offensive combination is little use if you can't switch in, so a bulky attacker build is nigh-on inevitable, unless we make this as horribly powerful as DPP UU Yanmega.
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And finally, a bit of clearing up work:
Screw-On Head said:
Deck Knight, I'm curious to why you stated:
[Electric / Fire (No Levitate)]
It was my understanding using some combination of ability, stats and move pool to cover up some of the weaknesses of a "bad" typing was not only allowed, but the expected means for improving upon a "bad" typing, as the idea was presented by Theorymon's concept description:
I imagine that this is because we already have a Levitate Electric/Fire in Rotom-H, and that making another one would be something of a waste, when the typing is capable of doing other things. Not that it matters to me since I disapprove of Electric/Fire regardless.
Asylum_Rhapsody said:
EDIT: One other thing that I want to bring up: I think that we should pick an ability before we have the Threats/Counters discussion. With a Pokemon like this, we are going to want to give it a significantly powerful ability that may very well alter how threats and counters are discussed, so I think that it would be very, very bad to settle on threats and counters solely based on typing when we have not yet decided on how abilities will affect typing effectiveness. For example, if we were to go with a Bug/Grass Pokemon, Flash Fire would be a perfectly legitimate ability to give it considering the concept at hand. However, if we have the Threats/Counter discussion first and decide that Infernape should be a counter given only information on typing, that's going to presuppose that Flash Fire will be off the table. If we recall from Necturna, people were very, very hesitant to discuss abilities that would in any way alter the threats and counters that had already been discussed beforehand, particularly Heatran, but while that wasn't such a big deal for that concept, it could be a very, very huge deal for this one. I do not think that we will be able to have a Threats/Counters discussion without poll-jumping the ability selection.
The thing is, you could quite easily turn that argument around and say that if we didn't want Infernape to be a counter, we could decide that during the threats discussion, and then we'd have more of a basis for choosing Flash Fire. Not the best example, but in any case, we're not deciding on Threats and Counters in the next stage, to my knowledge, merely identifying threats that might be problematic or unavoidable counters regardless of what we give it. It should not affect the typing discussion in any way. With regard to Necturna, it was nothing to do with the fact that we had "decided" on counters beforehand and everything to do with the fact that we were shaping up to be making a Pokemon that was nigh-on unstoppable at that very early stage, so most people felt it was a good idea not to make even more stuff totally useless against it. Still, your comment with regard to poll-jumping is legitimate, but then we can always decide that we don't want a certain archetype to counter our CAP, rather than naming exactly how we are going to go about it. Remember that you could just as easily make Infernape a non-issue by giving the Bug/Fire 110 base Speed and Earthquake as you could by giving it Flash Fire. Regardless of where you put the Threats discussion, some points about the future Pokemon will have to be assumed, hence why it is so early in the process.