jas61292
used substitute
Ok, I'm not saying that there are not other things you can do with it if you give it intimidate. What I am saying is that doing that is almost too good, forcing people to use it like a tank for it to be at its best.Here, directly in the post you quoted, I just mentioned two other methods besides tanking that change momentum, not even one of them being the primary argument, yet you completely ignored them and said 'I don't want a tank.' You didn't even address the argument of how being a tank automatically disqualifies this set from being a momentum changer (and just in case you missed it, I am not advocating a full-on tank).
If you read my previous post, I addressed this point. Yeah they have decent defenses, and yes they are not tanks. But the point I made was that they are only decent, while CAP1 is significantly more bulky. It is even significantly bulkier than Scrafty who is the bulkiest intimidator. After an intimidate, CAP1 would be so overly bulky, it would make Skarmory look weak. With the opponent at -1, CAP1 would take hits like as if had over 140 defense. Pair that with 105 HP, and that is just too bulky.You didn't even say anything about how the Pokemon we have now with decent defenses and Intimidate aren't automatically ruled as tanks. Primary examples: Salamence and Gyarados. There are specialized sets for them to function as tanks, but they are, first and foremost, primarily offensive Pokemon.
True once again, but my main argument against this is that ALL intimidators regardless of stats pretty much end up as boosting sweepers, which everyone agreed we do not want for CAP1.And do they change momentum? Hell yes, that's their job. These Pokemon were threatening because on top of awesome defensive typings that allowed them to switch into a plethora of common attacks, they absolutely forced physical attackers out by lowering their attack by a stage, and threatening to go to town on the team with boosted sweeps. Neither of these Pokemon would have half the presence they do without that free -1.
Ok, I understand all this, and Skarmory may not have been the best example, but my point was that this guy will be bulkier than Skarmory after an Intimidate, and while sure you could say that changes momentum, you could say the same of any wall, and that's not what we, or at least I, had in mind for this Pokemon. If being a wall is being a momentum Pokemon, then this concept was doomed from the start.Skarmory is one of the best momentum changers in the entire game and a prime example of a Pokemon you don't ever want to give a free turn to. It can wall a plethora of physical attackers that aren't prepared to deal with it, negate attempts to setup through Whirlwind, and make it easier for your team to come out on top through free damage from hazards. Yet, for all its defensive prowess, there are a number of physical attackers capable of outright overpowering it, not to mention mixed and special sweepers. Skarmory is a nigh-perfect example of a momentum changer with humbling weaknesses, which is a spot-on representation of what we want our new CAP to be.
Oh, and don't say was Skarmory does that CAP1 doesn't as far as moves. Movepool isn't decided yet, and if it does get whirlwind, you can bet it will be exactly the same.
EDIT:
True, we did base it on them. But since when is Breloom a tank? It can barely take a neutral hit and yet it is great at changing momentum. CAP1 already has great bulk. We don't need to bolster that to help it change momentum.Except CAP 1 probably will be a tank. I don't know if you're expecting certain boosting moves to be allowed, but I wouldn't count on that. We've been using tanks like Heatran and Breloom as models for this CAP the whole time. The stats are already pretty tank-like. There's nothing at all wrong with CAP 1 being a tank.