Pokémon Charizard

[Spenstar]

Any MegaZard X using outrage will get destroyed by Azumarill on the revenge kill, and there's nothing that can be done to stop it. So Dragon Claw is better, use Flare Blitz as your main STAB move.

If there was ever a reason for Ditto to have a place in OU, it's MegaZard X

 

[McGrrr]

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 8 SDef / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

Just a slight tweak to the EVs. Now this is guaranteed to survive Mega Gengar's Sludge Bomb after 25% Stealth Rock damage. The lower attack doesn't really lose any potency, but the added bulk is welcome.

Damage calculations against the top 20 most common Pokemon per October data (most popular EV spreads assumed):

Flare Blitz
1. Aegislash (Shield Stance): OHKO
2. Mega Gengar: OHKO
3. Ferrothorn: OHKO
4. Scizor: OHKO
5. Klefki: OHKO
6. Azumarill: 154-182 (38.11 - 45.04%)
7. Excadrill: OHKO
8. Gliscor: 166-196 (46.89 - 55.36%)
9. Mega Lucario: OHKO
10: Mega Kangaskhan: 256-302 (61.83 - 72.94%)

Other Notable:
1. Togekiss: 268-316 (71.65 - 84.49%)
2. Florges: 350-414 (97.22 - 115%)
3. Sylveon: 364-430 (92.38 - 109.13%), Bold: 240-284 (60.91 - 72.08%)
4. Mega Gardevoir: OHKO
5. Mega Venusaur: 214-254 (58.79 - 69.78%)

Dragon Claw
1. Greninja: 238-280 (83.21 - 97.9%)
2. Talonflame: 226-268 (75.83 - 89.93%)
3. Gengar: survives minimum damage, Mega Gengar: 206-244 (78.62 - 93.12%)
4. Tyranitar: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.53%), Mega Tyranitar: 122-144 (30.19 - 35.64%)
5. Garchomp: OHKO, Mega Garchomp: 304-360 (84.91 - 100.55%)
6. Goodra: OHKO
7: Rotom-W: 162-192 (53.28 - 63.15%)
8. Noivern: OHKO
9: Alakazam: OHKO, Mega Alakazam: 244-288 (96.82 - 114.28%)
10: Dragonite (Multiscale): 180-212 (55.55 - 65.43%)
11: Gliscor: 112-132 (31.63 - 37.28%)
12. Mega Charizard Y: 210-248 (70.7 - 83.5%), Mega Charizard X: OHKO

Other Notable:
1. Gyarados (after intimidate): 138-164 (41.69 - 49.54%), Mega Gyarados (no intimidate): 158-188 (47.59 - 56.62%)
2. Starmie: 196-232 (74.8 - 88.54%)
3. Vaporeon: 170-200 (36.63 - 43.1%)
4. Blastoise: 170-202 (46.96 - 55.8%), Mega Blastoise: 146-174 (40.33 - 48.06%)
5. Mega Blaziken: 206-244 (68.21 - 80.79%)

 

[Pac-man9]

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 8 SDef / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

Just a slight tweak to the EVs. Now this is guaranteed to survive Mega Gengar's Sludge Bomb after 25% Stealth Rock damage. The lower attack doesn't really lose any potency, but the added bulk is welcome.

Damage calculations against the top 20 most common Pokemon per October data (most popular EV spreads assumed):

Flare Blitz
1. Aegislash (Shield Stance): OHKO
2. Mega Gengar: OHKO
3. Ferrothorn: OHKO
4. Scizor: OHKO
5. Klefki: OHKO
6. Azumarill: 154-182 (38.11 - 45.04%)
7. Excadrill: OHKO
8. Gliscor: 166-196 (46.89 - 55.36%)
9. Mega Lucario: OHKO
10: Mega Kangaskhan: 256-302 (61.83 - 72.94%)

Other Notable:
1. Togekiss: 268-316 (71.65 - 84.49%)
2. Florges: 350-414 (97.22 - 115%)
3. Sylveon: 364-430 (92.38 - 109.13%), Bold: 240-284 (60.91 - 72.08%)
4. Mega Gardevoir: OHKO

Dragon Claw
1. Greninja: 238-280 (83.21 - 97.9%)
2. Talonflame: 226-268 (75.83 - 89.93%)
3. Gengar: survives minimum damage, Mega Gengar: 206-244 (78.62 - 93.12%)
4. Tyranitar: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.53%), Mega Tyranitar: 122-144 (30.19 - 35.64%)
5. Garchomp: OHKO, Mega Garchomp: 304-360 (84.91 - 100.55%)
6. Goodra: OHKO
7: Rotom-W: 162-192 (53.28 - 63.15%)
8. Noivern: OHKO
9: Alakazam: OHKO, Mega Alakazam: 244-288 (96.82 - 114.28%)
10: Dragonite (Multiscale): 180-212 (55.55 - 65.43%)
11: Gliscor: 112-132 (31.63 - 37.28%)
12. Mega Charizard Y: 210-248 (70.7 - 83.5%), Mega Charizard X: OHKO

Other Notable:
1. Gyarados (after intimidate): 138-164 (41.69 - 49.54%), Mega Gyarados (no intimidate): 158-188 (47.59 - 56.62%)
2. Starmie: 196-232 (74.8 - 88.54%)
3. Vaporeon: 170-200 (36.63 - 43.1%)
4. Blastoise: 170-202 (46.96 - 55.8%), Mega Blastoise: 146-174 (40.33 - 48.06%)

I understand that this is just calculations and not in-game scenarios, but a lot of those pokemon would just revenge kill you like noivern's draco meteor and garchomp's dragon claw.

 

[McGrrr]

I understand that this is just calculations and not in-game scenarios, but a lot of those pokemon would just revenge kill you like noivern's draco meteor and garchomp's dragon claw.

Actually, I was just going down the list. I only included them because they were part of the top 20 usage.

These calcs really highlight how destructive Char X actually is. IMO, it's the most terrifying Mega evo (until Gengar gets Pain Split access). +1 is devastating, but Flare Blitz recoil is the great equaliser. I think bulky dance will be the way forward once Pokebank is available.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Actually, I was just going down the list. I only included them because they were part of the top 20 usage.

These calcs really highlight how destructive Char X actually is. IMO, it's the most terrifying Mega evo (until Gengar gets Pain Split access). +1 is devastating, but Flare Blitz recoil is the great equaliser. I think bulky dance will be the way forward once Pokebank is available.

its far from the most destructive in either power defense or anything else, its good offensivly and has great movepoll to back it up, sure.but so does every damn mega, heck mega venusaur has cresselia defeses and still has 122 spA. all it is is simply good, nothing crazy, it's just getting hype because it's charzard, and our lil starter budd finally got good.

also , as antar noted in the thread, those are the most 10 days of legitimate usage for XY, so there's a large chance that those EV spreads suck

 

[McGrrr]

its far from the most destructive in either power defense or anything else, its good offensivly and has great movepoll to back it up, sure.but so does every damn mega, heck mega venusaur has cresselia defeses and still has 122 spA.

From my extensive experience on Showdown, few things come close to how difficult it is to handle Mega Charizard X (JUST ASK MY OPPONENTS). Honestly, people are using it badly if it's not working for them. In the right hands, I only see Mega Charizard X, Mega Gengar, and Mega Kangaskhan being close to overpowered. The rest of them? They're good for sure, but these three are in a different league.

 

[Pac-man9]

Actually, I was just going down the list. I only included them because they were part of the top 20 usage.

These calcs really highlight how destructive Char X actually is. IMO, it's the most terrifying Mega evo (until Gengar gets Pain Split access). +1 is devastating, but Flare Blitz recoil is the great equaliser. I think bulky dance will be the way forward once Pokebank is available.

I prefer charizard Y because I just like to swim against the current and because of the raw power.
I might run a set like:

Charizard-Y
Mild/Hasty


252 spd/52 atk/200sp.atk
-EQ/rock slide(for talonflame)
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Dragon Dance


fool a physical flare blitz set and set up DD twice to start sweeping. After potential counters are gone, this can make a great late game sweeper.

What do you think?

 

[Monte Cristo]

From my extensive experience on Showdown, few things come close to how difficult it is to handle Mega Charizard X (JUST ASK MY OPPONENTS). Honestly, people are using it badly if it's not working for them. In the right hands, I only see Mega Charizard X, Mega Gengar, and Mega Kangaskhan being close to overpowered. The rest of them? They're good for sure, but these three are in a different league.

lolinb4forgetting aboutthebestone: mega blazeiken, also, anything is destructive in the right hand of a competent player

 

[McGrrr]

lolinb4forgetting aboutthebestone: mega blazeiken, also, anything is destructive in the right hand of a competent player

Personally, I disagree. I've never considered Blaziken uber, and find it odd that other people do. Mega Blaziken is fragile and predictable.

 

[Pac-man9]

lolinb4forgetting aboutthebestone: mega blazeiken, also, anything is destructive in the right hand of a competent player

I kinda agree that CharX and Y both aren't the BEST megas, but are surely in the top 6.
My list:
1.M-Gengar
2.M-Kangaskhan
3.M-Lucario
4.M-CharX and Y(can't really say one is better, as both do opposite jobs and do them as efficiently, bulky physical vs speedy special)
5.M-Mawile(sorry, your special defence and HP just don't make the cut sometimes)
6. M-Blaziken(with only two attacking options on the common set, talonflame makes you its bitch)

 

[RockStarFish]

From my extensive experience on Showdown, few things come close to how difficult it is to handle Mega Charizard X. Honestly, people are using it badly if it's not working for them. In the right hands, I only see Mega Charizard X, Mega Gengar, and Mega Kangaskhan being close to overpowered. The rest of them? They're good for sure, but they're in a different league.

The thing about Char X is that it's got 130/100 physical offense and access to Dragon Dance, its STAB combination is almost unresisted and is backed by an ability that boosts its STABs by 33%, it outspeeds everything Scarf-less at +1, and It's the only Dragon-type not weak to Fairy or Ice (bar Dialga). Mega Charizard X has a lot going for it.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I kinda agree that CharX and Y both aren't the BEST megas, but are surely in the top 6.
My list:
1.M-Gengar
2.M-Kangaskhan
3.M-Lucario
4.M-Blaziken
5.M-CharX and Y(can't really say one is better, as both do opposite jobs and do them as efficiently, bulky physical vs speedy special)
6.M-Mawile(sorry, your special defence and HP just don't make the cut)


3 and 4 may be switched, not entirely sure.

we can't begin to legitimatly rank megas this early, there is way too much of a shiny new toy factor existing that and this meta is way too early (though we can weed out stuff like mega herra) that and this kindagot off topic more than I meant it to be

 

[Pac-man9]

we can't begin to legitimatly rank megas this early, there is way too much of a shiny new toy factor existing that and this meta is way too early (though we can weed out stuff like mega herra) that and this kindagot off topic more than I meant it to be

true, but it was just a theory(and my opinion). But we need to get back on topic, soooooooo...
repost just in case you didn't see it:

Charizard-Y

Mild/Hasty/lonely/naughty
(Pick between stronger DC/rock slide or Nuclear powered special attacks)

252 spd/52 atk/200sp.atk
-Dragon Claw/rock slide(for talonflame)
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Dragon Dance
Fool a physical flare blitz set and set up DD twice in front of a sucker like trevenant or (tee hee) quagsire to start sweeping. After potential counters are gone, this can also make a great late game sweeper because coming in late game makes it easier to set up without having to set up in front of set up fodder.

 

[Stallion]

I may have hastily clicked on the "neither will be ou" option of the poll. Looking at Charizard X, it is actually downright ridiculous. 159 bp Flare Blitz off 130 attack with perfect coverage and a nice set of resists? I'm looking forward to trying this in some sort of double Dragon team with Salamence and just smashing everything to pieces!

Edit: why on earth would anyone go mixed with charx when tough claws Flare Blitz probably outdamages nerfed Fire Blast on a lot of physical walls...I'd rather even go with swords dance and be the ultimate stall breaker.

 

[I2edShift]

Edit: why on earth would anyone go mixed with charx when tough claws Flare Blitz probably outdamages nerfed Fire Blast on a lot of physical walls...I'd rather even go with swords dance and be the ultimate stall breaker.

Overheat has its uses the break through some physical counters (Hippo) that would otherwise force you out or KO.

 

[PK Gaming]

So Mega Charizard-X is obviously a baller, but how is Mega Charizard-Y? I'm thinking of using it on a team, but i'm worried about it's slight vulnerability to Tyranitar and meh Speed.

Setwise, you're pretty much locked into using Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Solarbeam. What's the last moveslot usually dedicated to? Roost I imagine?

 

[Darkflagrance]

So Mega Charizard-X is obviously a baller, but how is Mega Charizard-Y? I'm thinking of using it on a team, but i'm worried about it's slight vulnerability to Tyranitar and meh Speed.

Setwise, you're pretty much locked into using Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Solarbeam. What's the last moveslot usually dedicated to? Roost I imagine?

Flame Charge/DD for speed.
Flare Blitz for wall break.
Dragon Pulse to kill the dragons who wall your other 3 moves.
Air Slash to kill the fire/flyings who wall your other 3 moves.

 

[Pac-man9]

Flame Charge/DD for speed.
Flare Blitz for wall break.
Dragon Pulse to kill the dragons who wall your other 3 moves.
Air Slash to kill the fire/flyings who wall your other 3 moves.

Why flare blitz when he has a more powerful move in fire blast coming from 159 sp.atk? I say run dragon claw or Rock slide for a DD set with maximum evs in sp.atk. Put 52 in attack and the rest in speed and you have a beast. Just check my other post on this page with a moveset.

 

[DaiGuren]

Setwise, you're pretty much locked into using Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Solarbeam. What's the last moveslot usually dedicated to? Roost I imagine?

Imo depends on what you use him for. I personally use flamethrower/solarbeam/dragon pulse/focus blast and it hits everything for atleast neutral dmg. It's great for punching holes in teams or as a suicide lead in my experience.

 

[Thorhammer]

Why flare blitz when he has a more powerful move in fire blast coming from 159 sp.atk? I say run dragon claw or Rock slide for a DD set with maximum evs in sp.atk. Put 52 in attack and the rest in speed and you have a beast. Just check my other post on this page with a moveset.

The idea is that it gets past stuff like Blissey with so much SpD that Charizard can't kill with special attacks, thereby wallbreaking.

 

[MegaZard29]

Hello, I just got back into competitive Pokemon after 'retiring' at the midpoint of 5th Gen. So after getting a hold of some of the Power items and racking up some BP, I got to EV Training again. My first project was a Charmander with Jolly Nature and a Charizardite X that my friend gave to me. So, naturally, I decided to make a "DragonZard". Now, just to clarify, because this was a Pokemon my friend had picked up via in-game events, I didn't have access to Outrage or Dragon Dance, so I made the best set I could without those options. After identifying what path I need to take to get those moves, I decided to make a second DragonZard at some point in the future. Before I post my current set, I would like to ask a few key questions that I've had about DragonZard and what directions I could take it in:

1) Is there anything fundamentally wrong with using Swords Dance over Dragon Dance on DragonZard?
2) What is the better overall attack for DragonZard: Dragon Claw or Outrage?
3) Is there any reason I should use Flare Blitz over Flame Charge(I use Flame Charge to mitigate the lack of Dragon Dance while also maintaining DragonZard's sweeping capabilities through the gradual speed buffs and lack of recoil that I would otherwise receive from Flare Blitz)?

If you guys could help me with these questions, that would be greatly appreciated. Now, here's the current set:

DragonZard
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Speed/252 Attack/4 Defense
Item: Charizardite X
Moves:
-Dragon Claw
-Flame Charge
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance

Thanks for your help!

 

[newtonja]

The thing with the mega is that unfortunately it will still need very reliable spiners since it still gets owned by rocks on the switch.

 

[Stallion]

Overheat has its uses the break through some physical counters (Hippo) that would otherwise force you out or KO.

+ 2 Charizard X Flare Blitz (Tough Claws boosted) to a 252/252+ Hippowdon - 86.66 - 102.38%.

Yeah, I really don't see the point in running Overheat, considering Flare Blitz has a chance of outright killing the toughest physical wall you're likely to face, with more then 50% chance of koing with just SR on the field

You've got to understand that a + 2 Charizard using Flare Blitz is hitting harder then a +2 Adamant Garchomp Outrage boosted by Life Orb. That's some serious power, why waste it by splitting EV's?

 

[Edgar81539]

Hello, I just got back into competitive Pokemon after 'retiring' at the midpoint of 5th Gen. So after getting a hold of some of the Power items and racking up some BP, I got to EV Training again. My first project was a Charmander with Jolly Nature and a Charizardite X that my friend gave to me. So, naturally, I decided to make a "DragonZard". Now, just to clarify, because this was a Pokemon my friend had picked up via in-game events, I didn't have access to Outrage or Dragon Dance, so I made the best set I could without those options. After identifying what path I need to take to get those moves, I decided to make a second DragonZard at some point in the future. Before I post my current set, I would like to ask a few key questions that I've had about DragonZard and what directions I could take it in:

1) Is there anything fundamentally wrong with using Swords Dance over Dragon Dance on DragonZard?
2) What is the better overall attack for DragonZard: Dragon Claw or Outrage?
3) Is there any reason I should use Flare Blitz over Flame Charge(I use Flame Charge to mitigate the lack of Dragon Dance while also maintaining DragonZard's sweeping capabilities through the gradual speed buffs and lack of recoil that I would otherwise receive from Flare Blitz)?

If you guys could help me with these questions, that would be greatly appreciated. Now, here's the current set:

DragonZard
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Speed/252 Attack/4 Defense
Item: Charizardite X
Moves:
-Dragon Claw
-Flame Charge
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance

Thanks for your help!

Charizard has a sucky speed, so it needs to patch it up using Dragon Dance.
Outrage is very good, it leaves you vulnerable to Fairies after knocking something, but Dragon Claw is lacking.
Flame Charge is a 50 Power Attack, factoring stab you're using a 75 attack compared with Flare Blitz that is 195 Power.

 

[Thorhammer]

+ 2 Charizard X Flare Blitz (Tough Claws boosted) to a 252/252+ Hippowdon - 86.66 - 102.38%.

Yeah, I really don't see the point in running Overheat, considering Flare Blitz has a chance of outright killing the toughest physical wall you're likely to face, with more then 50% chance of koing with just SR on the field

You've got to understand that a + 2 Charizard using Flare Blitz is hitting harder then a +2 Adamant Garchomp Outrage boosted by Life Orb. That's some serious power, why waste it by splitting EV's?

It is worth noting that OHKOing a max HP Hippowdon with Flare Blitz means taking 140 damage, when uninvested Charizard only has 297 HP. Losing 47% of your HP isn't fun, especially when you're gonna be taking more residual damage from sand as well.