Creative (and good) Movesets Mk II (READ THE OP FIRST)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by sax king, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. Boondocker

    Boondocker

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    Smeargle @ Focus Sash/Life Orb/Lum Berry/Leftovers
    252 Att 252 Hp 4 Spe
    Adament Nature
    Technition

    ~Mach Punch
    ~Ice Shard
    ~Spore/Batton Pass/Extreme Speed/Swords Dance
    ~Spore/Batton Pass/Extreme Speed/Swords Dance

    Batton Pass recipient Smeargle. Why would you use this you ask? Well, you probably wouldnt, but it might have some use on dedicated Batton Pass teams. Since Moody is banned, Smeargle's next best ability is Technition, and this set takes advantage of it. Even with a +Att Nature this thing only hits 152 attack but it could sweep at +6 since it recieves priority on almost all of its attacks. Mach Punch and Ice Shard get great coverage, Extreme Speed is stab, Spore is Spore, and Batton Pass is to pass out in case it meets danger. Probably crap but im not good enough at Baton Pass to say. Should probably be paired with Ninjask and Espeon.
  2. DrDLO

    DrDLO

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    I like the use of triple priority. With a versatile poke like Smeargle, the sets are literally limitless. I'm not knocking the set, just pointing out that the reason priority users with technitian are so dangerous is also due to their STAB factored in as well as their monstrous attack (scizor and breloom). Since you're not running max speed Spore may be out. Baton pass, to me, seems like a wasted moveslot just for scouting purposes. The normal typing that it gets would be great with e-speed, so I'd go with that. Since you gave bulky ev's, as well as the triple priority, I'd go with SD for the 4th move. All in all a very good use of Smeargle's technician ability with its (everything) movepool!

    Ok so people may think I'm crazy to go bulky in such an offensive metagame, but I've had incredible success with this set and think that it handles alot of the threats in the current meta:

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine@ leftovers
    Thick Fat
    252 hp/252 attack/ 4 Sdef
    Ice Shard
    Icicle Crash
    Earthquake
    Curse

    There aren't many feelings better than having a spectator on PS laugh when you pull our curse, only to start raping the opponent's team with your mammoth (yes, I said it) attack and great STABS. Mamoswine's HP is very respectable at 110 and it can take a surprising amount of attacks before it goes down. Ex: Lead against a breloom. Yea, you'll get outsped, but adamant LO mach punch is doing 93% MAX to mamo, while you OHKO it's frail little head off with an ice shard. I created this due to a stupid Landorus-T weakness on my team. With scizor's usage decreased, this set has a much better time in the current meta, running through teams with one of the best priority attacks in the game. CB scizor does 91-108, but most people run the SD set. By the time they switch in, you've got +1 to attack and def and can house it with an earthquake. The advantage to this over the band mamo is that you aren't locked into a useless attack (eq on a flying type) and still get the power of a band after one boost. The speed drop is regretable, but that's why I pumped the ev's into HP instead of speed. The item was a toss up between sash, leichi berry and leftovers, but I went with leftovers to give it better longevity. For a late game sweeper, leichi better is amazing (assuming you boosted to +1 or +2. I can update with more calcs and apologize if I formatted this wrong (it's my first post in this thread). Thanks guys!

    Edit: Calc: That stupid backpacking bug Genesect Scarf Flamethrower does 34-41% and get's 2HKOed by EQ
  3. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

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    Adamant Smeargle at +6 has 608 attack. Adamant Haxorus at +1 has 648 attack.

    Baton Pass teams generally prefer to pass something that's ridiculously dangerous at +6, especially if it has insane bulk with all the defensive boosts. The more boosts you have to have to become viable, the more work a Baton Pass team has to do, making its already difficult job even harder. Plus, Smeargle is the only Pokemon in the game (AFAIK) that can Pass Ingrain, which stops phazing (a.k.a. Baton Pass's mortal enemy). Please use it for that, not for this. Notice the "(and good)" in the thread's title; I can make a super creative and surprising Choice Specs Haxorus set, but that doesn't mean it would ever be worth using.
  4. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    While I'm quite sure that this set would be very difficult to get through I worry that it has very little means with which to hit foes back with. With just Scald and Toxic you become set-up fodder for a number of Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Reuniclus Conkeldurr and anything with a substitute that isn't weak Scald. I generally find that Slowbro actually doesn't mind status as much as some other walls since it can switch out to heal the damage off, but it certainly could be nice. You'd just need to have ways to reliably deal with Pokemon that set up on Slowbro when it doesn't have all its attacking options.

    While I can see what you're going for here, I feel as if for pure baton pass teams this is wasting Smeargles potential. Smeargle can easily provide set up for other baton passes with spore and very importantly can set up Ingrain as well. Not to mention I don't think that even at +6 that Smeargle will OHKO everything, unlike a lot of other threats that would be much more dangerous with those boosts. And all it takes is one Pokemon to hang on long enough to phaze you out to screw it all over. It's an interesting idea in theory but I don't see it panning out well in practice.

    This seems like a pretty interesting set but I can't help but to see it as a BU Conkeldurr with worse defensive typing. Mamoswine is weak to a lot of common attack types, and it won't be able to KO all of them before falling down itself. It's weakness to water is particularly disturbing, since water types resist Ice Shard and thereby can't be taken out before they can retaliate. Still I suppose it probably has somewhat of a niche over Conkeldurr simply for the differently typed priority. It also has a more powerful main STAB in EQ, so that's helpful as well. I just fear that it has very little staying power against decent players... or really anyone with enough sense to bring in a water type. Rotom-W has to be hell for this thing, even moreso than normal. At least with an all out attacking set you can hit it on the switch with Superpower or Stone Edge...
  5. LudwiG

    LudwiG

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    Use extremespeed and belly drum as the last two moves. It might be able to late game sweep and actually doesn't need baton pass support.
  6. Photo

    Photo

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    I've ran Curse Mamo before and it actually does work. Biggest problem is it can't take special hits and is forced out unless left until very lategame.

    Togekiss @ Choice Band
    252 Att 252 Hp 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    Hustle

    -Extreme Speed
    -Zen Headbutt
    -Drain Punch
    -Trick

    Awful Base 50 Attack, awful physical coverage and most likely a wasted teamslot. Still, the thought of Banded Hustle STAB Extreme Speed is cool. Trick for walls and possible surprise factor. DP/Zedbutt for coverage I guess. I don't think Kiss can ever go just physical, but I'll still test this at some point.
  7. Ames

    Ames

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    [​IMG]

    Submence
    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Moxie | Jolly | 252 Atk, 252 Spe
    -Substitute
    -Dragon Dance/Roost
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake/Fire Fang

    The idea behind this is to abuse Moxie to the fullest in a similar manner to Honchkrow but with more power and Outrage. The sub is crucial for protecting mence from Mamoswine/Weavile and makes being locked into Outrage more forgiving.
  8. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    I love the idea of offensive smeargle because it's options are nearly limitless. It's base 20 offensive stats severely hinder it, but It can still be useable. I have went against and lost to a BP recipient Smeargle with moody, and it something like Bolt Strike/Sacred Fire/Substitute but I don't remember the 4th move, but I think it was another legendary signature move. A better set recipient set would be look like this:

    Smeargle @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Extremespeed
    - Sucker Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Boomerang/Bolt Strike/Flare Blitz

    This is probably the best it's gonna get for Physical Recipent Smeargle. Life Orb is by far the best Item because it needs all the power it can possibly get. Pretty standard evs, ES is by far the most important move, as at +6 it will OHKO pretty bulky pokemon. Sucker punch is for ghosts, and it will utterly destroy most of them, but it can be played around. Mach punch beats T-tar, and almost OHKOes Offensive Heatran and Magnezone so you'll need entry hazards. The last slot it for what you want it to beat, Boomerang with Technician gets up to base 150 Power, destroying Jirachi Switchin and pretty much weak to ground. Bolt Strike will let you slay Skarmory and Slowbro (Sucker punch does up to 77% though). Flare blitz or Sacred Fire also destroys steel type (Ferrothorn). Ice shard really isn't that all important because Extremespeed has +2 priority, and at +6 it pretty much destroys all Dragons anyway, though it does let it OHKO gliscor. Hazards are extremely important, as they will let you take Dragonite, and many other pokemon

    +6 Extreme Speed vs 0/0 Politoed: 113.4% - 134%
    +6 Extreme Speed vs 0/0 Keldeo: 97.5% - 115.2%
    +6 Extreme Speed vs 236/0 Breloom: 108.8% - 127.8%
    +6 Extreme Speed vs 252/0 Dragonite: 77.7% - 91.7% OHKO with SR
    +6 Extreme Speed vs 4/0 Latios: 115.2% - 135.4%
    +6 Extreme Speed vs 252/0 Latias: 86.5% - 102.2% very likely OHKO after SR (SP OHKOes)
    +6 Sucker Punch vs 248/216+ Jellicent: 88.8% - 104.7% OHKO after SR

    Didn't do to many calcs, but as you can see when SR is up, the only pokemon that are problematic are Faster things it can't OHKO with it's priority move,things with Extremespeed and very physically bulky things
  9. Suburvia

    Suburvia

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    If you absolutely must use BP recipient Smeargle for some reason, what's the point in trying to abuse priority and Technician? If Smeargle is receiving a +6 attack boost, he's almost surely at +2 or more speed and doesn't need it - why not run something more powerful like Return or Double Edge? Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick instead of Mach Punch? The only reason to use priority is to outpace other priority users - the most common of which, Scizor, won't be OHKO'd by any relevant priority move. Extremespeed is a decent choice for checking Dragonite, Mamoswine, Conkeldurr, Azumarill, and Breloom, among others, but there is no reason to base the whole set around a bunch of weak moves that won't allow Smeargle to actually hurt anything. You're probably better off using ESpeed + 3 coverage moves to maximize super effective coverage (which Smeargle NEEDS to KO anything).

    With all that being said, just skip Smeargle entirely and use Metagross, Machamp, Dragonite, Salamence, Scizor, Lucario, Terrakion, or any number of other, much better, baton pass recipients. The team in general will also benefit from this change as they'll have Smeargle available as a support option, which is something (really the only thing) that Smeargle excels at.

    I see what you're trying to do here, but what makes this better than your typical DD MoxieMence? True, you might occasionally get to set up on a status user who can't hurt Mence (Amoonguss, maybe?), but those Pokemon will just as often switch out to a more solid counter - someone who can kill, outspeed, or simply tank Mence. In that case, you'd DD as they break your Sub and be left with a +1/+1 Mence at 87% (after Lefties) as opposed to 100% if you'd just DD'd on the switch. If you have Roost instead, then one of two things will happen:

    a) they sent in someone who can outspeed at +1 and OHKO Mence; they break your sub as you OHKO and they bring in a proper counter, or you don't even OHKO and they proceed to OHKO you right back or force you to switch if you didn't Outrage

    b) they sent in someone who Mence can't KO without boosts and you're left just dealing some minor damage that they might just heal off anyway before switching out or getting KO'd

    So the only situation in which this Mence is better is if they status on the sub and have to switch out as you DD - which, admittedly, leaves you in a good position on the off chance that it works. But, in that case, depending on your two move coverage, they may or may not have something that can just wall you completely - Skarmory for EQ and Heatran for Fire Fang, both of which can phase you (Or 'Tran can just go for the KO with Dragon Pulse/HP Ice). All this set lets you do is survive one single Ice Shard so you can KO Mamoswine, but the situation in which the opponent has a Pokemon that will let this Mence set up as well as a Mamoswine seems rare. I'll admit that this set could work in the perfect storm of circumstances - but other sets will be more useful more often. Dragonite in general does the whole Substitute thing better. This set isn't necessarily bad, it's just that Salamence has better things to be doing; his potential is really wasted with this set.
  10. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Smeargle has base 20 Atk. With max Atk and at +6, it has 608 Atk. That's absolutely horrid for the work it takes to get that bonus, and would be horrid even if it was using moves with actual power.

    Never even consider offensive Smeargle, regardless of how much support you plan to give it.

    For comparison, if you were to pass +6 SpA to max SpA Thundurus-T, it would have 1708 SpA.
  11. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    I've no idea why you would use that set as a Baton Pass recipient rather than something with decent stats, such as Mew or anything with BoltBeam or EdgeQuake coverage. Only just being able to OHKO a Breloom at +6 with your STAB move is pretty pathetic, and even then you need to rely on passing an Agility or Rock Polish to hit things that resist Extremespeed.

    Just my two cents, but Smeargle also has a massive defensive movepool, being able to status, stack hazards, recover, spin, dual screens, taunt, etc. Smeargle can run a support role and actually have merit over any other support mon in the game. It's pretty hard to take advantage of Smeargle offensively, as even at +6 it is not amazing.
  12. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    That's if you have time to pass a +2 speed boost to smeargle. Also at +2, it gets out sped by Choice Scarf Terakion and anything with + base 105 and up. Mach punch would just outright OHKO it. Extremespeed on any Physical smeargle set, it pretty much non-negotiable since it priorty is so valuable and other pokemon with BP, Ice Shard, ES will do at least 50% to smeargle if not OHKO it. But without the other priorty moves, I'd say the best set would be ES/Flare Blitz/Boomerang/Icicle Spear or Bolt Strike something like that. I would agree that Smeargle is a whole lot better running a support set, but it always fun catching your opponents off guard and sweeping with a smeargle
  13. Camisado

    Camisado

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    Photo- Did you consider Aerial Ace on the Togekiss set? STAB+ perfect accuracy alleviates some of the accuracy issues, and Normal+Flying+Fighting has solid coverage
  14. Photo

    Photo

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    I didn't think of that, but it seems much better than Zedbutt with regards to coverage and accuracy.
  15. necrostevo

    necrostevo

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    Kabutops

    [​IMG]

    Kabutops @ Life Orb
    Swift Swim
    Adamant (252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def)
    -X-scissor/Rapid Spin
    -Stone Edge
    -Aqua Jet
    -Waterfall

    I really enjoy using Kabutops in OU. I find that he really shines when I use him in OU on non-weather teams. Most of the time, my opponent is running Rain; so, he becomes a speedy hit and run Pokemon that can handle many common rain attackers (Genies, Terrakion, Jirachi (if below 50%) to name a few).

    He is horribly walled by Ferrothorn (as are many Pokemon), but the ability to threaten out faster sweepers/Scarfers is amazing. I do not use Swords Dance on this set as the purpose is to be more of a check to other offensive Pokemon (rather than to sweep outright).

    He can also set up Stealth Rocks/Be an offensive spinner, but I would relegate that to the defensive Kabutops set (which I would not use in OU most of the time).
  16. Suburvia

    Suburvia

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    If you have time to pass +6 attack to Smeargle, you almost certainly have time to pass +2 speed. Anyone who's going to sit around and let you BP +6 attack to anything needs their head checked anyway - unless you've got a strategy based around it, in which case you are almost surely passing speed/defenses/etc. anyway.

    I won't argue with always using ESpeed. The whole point really is that using Smeargle to sweep is a bad idea. As you said, it can certainly be fun, but I wouldn't say it's a creative and "good" moveset. The only way I think you could use it in a serious game where you intended to win was if Smeargle had Baton Pass, as well - come in, do some damage because the opponent's not expecting it, and then BP off to something else when you're done. But this begs the question: why not just pass to that thing in the first place?

    Kabutops only hits 259 speed outside of rain - what's it doing when the opponent isn't running rain? Sure, it can damage some stuff, but it can't really outspeed anything important and Aqua Jet, though certainly useful, isn't powerful enough to warrant this set over a different one or a more useful Pokemon:

    All calcs are without Rain unless otherwise specified and all natures are neutral:

    Aqua Jet vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 58.0% - 69.1%
    Aqua Jet vs. 248/0 Scizor: 24.8% - 29.7%
    Aqua Jet vs. 248/0 Scizor (rain): 37.0% - 44.0%
    Aqua Jet vs. 4/0 Gengar: 49.2% - 58.4%
    Aqua Jet vs. 252/184 Gliscor: 34.5% - 41.2%
    Aqua Jet vs. 4/0 Thundurus-T: 38.3% - 45.3%
    Aqua Jet vs. 0/4 Mamoswine: 56.5% - 67.0%

    Terrakion, probably the 'Mon AJ is most useful against, isn't even KO'd after switching into Stealth Rock twice. All the other Pokemon in the top 20 either resist Aqua Jet, are slower outside of rain, or are almost exclusively used in rain. So, Kabutops can't touch anything that's faster than itself, gets KO'd by just about everything (especially factoring in its cornucopia of common weaknesses), can't switch in to much of anything, doesn't outspeed anything important, and doesn't have the power to KO anything without super effective hits.

    Certainly, it would be useful in rain, but relying on your opponent to bring the weather is always a bad idea - Kabutops will be dead weight in about 78% of your matches. If you put Swords Dance or Rapid Spin on the set, at least he could hurt stall teams or have some extra utility. There doesn't seem to be any reason not to use SD or Rapid Spin other than for the sake of being different. Not to mention that Low Kick is typically a superior coverage option to X-Scissor, hitting Tyranitar and Ferrothorn as opposed to Celebi.
  17. bubbly

    bubbly

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    [​IMG]
    Jynx @ Leftovers, Modest nature
    120 HP / 172 SpAtk / 216 Spe
    - Nasty Plot
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Substitute
    - Ice Beam

    This is one of my favourite things to use at the moment,abusing the crap out of all the Politoed and Amoonguss running around. It's basically SubRoost Kyurem, with pitiful bulk, but Dry Skin and the ability to cripple counters like Jirachi and Scizor through Lovely Kiss. Needs Toxic Spikes down for full effectiveness; everything which can remove Toxic Spikes (with the exception of Forretress) is set up fodder for this; and with Toxic Spikes down, you can Substitute spam nearly infinitely while the opponents health drains away.
  18. necrostevo

    necrostevo

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    [/QUOTE]Kabutops only hits 259 speed outside of rain - what's it doing when the opponent isn't running rain? Sure, it can damage some stuff, but it can't really outspeed anything important and Aqua Jet, though certainly useful, isn't powerful enough to warrant this set over a different one or a more useful Pokemon:

    All calcs are without Rain unless otherwise specified and all natures are neutral:

    Aqua Jet vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 58.0% - 69.1%
    Aqua Jet vs. 248/0 Scizor: 24.8% - 29.7%
    Aqua Jet vs. 248/0 Scizor (rain): 37.0% - 44.0%
    Aqua Jet vs. 4/0 Gengar: 49.2% - 58.4%
    Aqua Jet vs. 252/184 Gliscor: 34.5% - 41.2%
    Aqua Jet vs. 4/0 Thundurus-T: 38.3% - 45.3%
    Aqua Jet vs. 0/4 Mamoswine: 56.5% - 67.0%

    Terrakion, probably the 'Mon AJ is most useful against, isn't even KO'd after switching into Stealth Rock twice. All the other Pokemon in the top 20 either resist Aqua Jet, are slower outside of rain, or are almost exclusively used in rain. So, Kabutops can't touch anything that's faster than itself, gets KO'd by just about everything (especially factoring in its cornucopia of common weaknesses), can't switch in to much of anything, doesn't outspeed anything important, and doesn't have the power to KO anything without super effective hits.

    Certainly, it would be useful in rain, but relying on your opponent to bring the weather is always a bad idea - Kabutops will be dead weight in about 78% of your matches. If you put Swords Dance or Rapid Spin on the set, at least he could hurt stall teams or have some extra utility. There doesn't seem to be any reason not to use SD or Rapid Spin other than for the sake of being different. Not to mention that Low Kick is typically a superior coverage option to X-Scissor, hitting Tyranitar and Ferrothorn as opposed to Celebi.[/QUOTE]


    That's my point though. At the moment, Rain is so prevalent that one ends up facing it most of the time, and the rain teams I have faced with Kabutops end up being dismantled by it. By the fact that one Pokemon can help counter the most commonly used strategy at the moment, it merits the use of it in my eyes.

    I'm not relying on my opponent to carry rain. I'm carrying a Pokemon that, should my opponent use Rain (which is very likely), I will have a check to most of their sweepers. If they don't use rain, then I have reasonably powerful Water/Rock type attacks and a priority move to help pick off weakened opponents.

    I forgot about Low Kick being a move tutor move (I breed my Pokemon; so I don't have access to B/W2 move tutors yet... and breeding in 4th Gen is a pain for me at the moment); but I agree that would definitely be better coverage than X-scissor (unless you really want a way to deal with Celebi).
  19. Suburvia

    Suburvia

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    I guess I can't really argue with that - if it works for you, great. It just doesn't seem like it would be more valuable than any number of other potent threats that you could place in that slot - especially since, based on July's stats, you're really only facing rain about 1/5 of the time. But I'll stop advocating not using it at all and assume you are.

    Basically, it just seems like 4 attack Kabutops is generally inferior to SD or Rapid Spin Kabutops - those sets accomplish the same thing while providing extra utility, only sacrificing coverage against one or two key threats depending on which move you replace. But that's what a team's for, right?

    This is exactly the on-site moveset with a different nature and slightly modified EVs. It outspeeds neutral natured base 90s, which makes sense - but why do we have 120 HP / 172 SpA vs. 40 HP / 252 SpA? Is there anything in particular those extra EVs help Jynx to survive?
  20. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Lol, I got confused between this thread and the underrated but effective movesets one :( I can't remember specifically what the HP EV's do, I think it was something to do with setting up on Tentacruel / Starmie.
  21. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn run for your life
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    [​IMG] @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Curse
    - Ice Shard
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk / Earthquake

    don't hate, this set has netted me a bunch of wins all by itself and it's far better than it looks. with eviolite, piloswine's defenses rise to unfair levels. thick fat removes one of its weaknesses automatically, which is great, and after a couple curses not much can touch this beast. i prefer earthquake over sleep talk in the last slot, but you can run either one. i think it's nice to have something to hit jellicent and other bulky waters with recovery, as even a +6 ice shard won't be doing much. only thing this set has to watch out for is phazers/perish songers, specifically skarmory, hippowdon, and politoed. if you can remove those threats and find something to set up on, it's basically 'gg'.
  22. Shovel

    Shovel

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    I think I seen this somewhere before, but still. It seems very effective, especially with the coverage it can provide with Ground/Ice. Politoed, to me anyway, seems to be the biggest threat. A neutral, 0 SpA Scald in the rain does 57% - 68% (234 - 276 HP), which is a guaranteed 2HKO. Actually, I guess any special attacker with a water type attack in rain :p (inb4 there are still 5 other Pokemon on the team that can support the set)

    However, dear me does it look annoying. I want to try it on a team, because it just looks like it could tank hits after a few Curses.

    I haven't really seen this set on these forums, but I tested it with someone on other forums and it really is extremely good. (I did check the previous Creative Moveset thread, and didnt see it)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Sceptile @ White Herb
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 212 Spd / 252 SAtk / 44 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    It's probably been posted before, but, It works out nice. The things that threaten this set (movepoolwise) would be Volcarona, Jirachi/Metagross, and the like.

    The moveset is optimized to work under any weather. Leaf Storm + Unburden + White Herb gives a lot a speed, a powerful hit, and no loss from it (bar a White Herb). Because Fire Types don't care about Focus Blast as much, Hidden Power [Rock] is definitely a replacement for [Ice], as Sceptile's main enemies are Fire, Flying, and Ice types. However, this does lose out on super effective damage on Celebi, which walls it otherwise and makes you lose the Unburden boost if you switch. Focus Blast is for Steel types, which would otherwise wall this set with either mentioned Hidden Powers.

    The current Ev spread allows Sceptile to dish out the most damage, especially with a Modest Nature. The 212 speed may seem a tad.. bad.. because of Unburden, but it lets Sceptile outspeed max speed (+Nature) base 100 Pokemon by 1 point of speed without Unburden's help. This has come in handy quite a few times against aforementioned Celebi(s).
  23. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    Now this is an interesting set, and it certainly seems better than the Curse Mamo from before. Still, I'm wondering exactly what you're going to set up against. Piloswine has some crappy weaknesses, with Fighting and Water standing out as making life hell for it. I guess the idea is to force something out with the threat of an Ice Shard? But that seems somewhat weak considering an uninvested Ice Shard coming off 100 Base attack seems unlikely to cause significant damage to anything that isn't 4x weak to it.

    And of course after setting up there's the issue of water types, which resist Ice Shard and hit back hard. Still, I guess it probably works, I just can't make my mind see how the whole process would go. I guess a lot of the things I'm thinking check it must not do so as well as I think they do.

    It certainly seems an interesting idea but I don't see this set working very well. The primary reason is that Unburden and White Herb only work once, meaning you have one shot at a sweep. If you don't get that, most offensive Pokemon will outspeed and OHKO you due to Sceptiles unimpressive defenses. It also isn't spectacularly powerful without any boosting items, though good coverage does make up for that somewhat. Still, it means almost any special wall will have its way with you, meaning you have to remove all of them before attempting to sweep. Sceptile also happens to take heavy damage from all the common forms of priority, meaning THAT has to be removed too.

    It's probably not useless certainly, but it's going to have a very hard time sweeping. I'd suggest replacing Giga Drain with additional coverage in the form of Earthquake and using a Rash or Mild Nature, to give you a better shot against Heatran. Giga Drain just isn't going to be powerful enough to do anything worthwhile without any boosts. A -2 Leaf Storm is almost as powerful as a +0 Giga Drain anyway.

    Even so I see this set just requiring too much support to sweep and it can't even come in once to fire off a shot early on without losing its only chance to sweep. Just stick to the standard Life Orb sets; immediate speed and power is what Sceptile has over other Grass Types and it should take advantage of that.
  24. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    945
    So I read the Smog and I gave the Tailwind Reshiram + Kyruem-W core a go in Ubers and not only was it super fun, but it was practical. With that in mind, I decided to try the same strategy in OU and see if it would work. Of course no Pokemon in OU had Reshiram's typing and the pool of Tailwind Dragons are almost exclusively Physical Dragon/Flying-types. There were the Lati but the Pursuit weakness and lack of ways to deal with Steel-types was just not suitable for a Dragon that needs to be switching in and out while minimizing opponent's chances to set-up. But there was one Pokemon that caught my eye:
    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Tailwind
    - Roost

    Apparently Hydreigon got Tailwind in BW2 and to be honest, Hydreigon is almost everything I was looking for in a Tailwind user and imo it is the most reliable user of Tailwind around. Yeah Tornadus has Prankster but it can't switch in even half as often as Hydreigon. But as I was saying, Hydreigon works because there are so few things in this game that look at Hydreigon and go "I can switch into that" or "I can set up on that" and it becomes more of a "okay, what do I want to sack" situation.

    To start: Modest Life Orb Draco Meteor; the end. Fire Blast for coverage is far better than what Latios can provide even if he wasn't Pursuit weak. Once Tailwind is up, just...forget your everything that could revenge Hydreigon without priority because it's not going to; not even Ditto can do anything. Probably the best thing about that coverage on Hydreigon is that the only Pokemon that really could switch in safely, bar the pink blobs, are Heatran and Tyranitar and even they are KOed by 2 Full-power Draco Meteors, if they're not running a defensive spread, which can easily be arranged by forcing them out with a switch after the first one.

    Of course being at -2 from Draco opens some doors for some undesirable conditions but when Tailwind's up, Hydreigon's team is still at a major advantage as checks for some Pokemon become full counters now that they can out-pace them and for the most part it's all up to you about what you run with Hydreigon. Landorus and Jirachi can now curb-stomp the Base 108+s that would normally laugh at them, Mamoswine becomes terrifying, and Dragonite, who also gets Tailwind, becomes a borderline superhero. Those are just some examples of things that benefit greatly from Tailwind even for just 2 turns. I personally run Kyurem as Hydreigon's offensive partner for that deliciously potent Double Draco core with Earth Power & Focus Blast covering everything Hydreigon doesn't, including Rain Steels. (The strategy transferred over from it's Uber counterpart extremely well btw. I've been using it for almost a week now while being pretty high on the ladder.)

    This set is just a blast to use and it works perfectly in that weird way that Agilitygross worked in 4th Gen but Tailwind makes it a team player.
    Superpower can be used over Roost to deal with blobs, Heatran, and Tyranitar but losing that recovery is a hefty price.
  25. Ames

    Ames

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    185
    I love the sounds of that Hydreigon set... finally an opportunity for it to semi-sweep. I would also probably try U-turn in the last slot for it to give it even more opportunities to perform a fast switch to something if it needs to which then can also utilise the extra speed.
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