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Garchomp
- Thread starter AfroThunderRule
- Start date
It could if you try using the old school ChainChomp set from early DPP OU.
Calcs for pokemon that are commonly physically defensive(or mixed walls)
Specially defensive Brongzong
252 SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Bronzong (+SpDef) : 47.34% - 55.62%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
In sun
252 SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Bronzong (+SpDef) : 70.41% - 82.84%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Skarmory
Specially defensive(rain)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 66.47% - 78.44%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Specially defensive(no wheather)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 66.47% - 78.44%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Damage in Sun with fire blast is a 2OHKO due to sturdy
Draco meteor clacs on other psychical walls
252 SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Slowbro: 65.74% - 77.66%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Hippowdon: 78.99% - 93.28%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
oh and heres the set
Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 16 Atk / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
Naughty/Lonely nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
Asumming sun, it does massive damage to both Skarmory and Bronzong, even with a negative nature. I would say it is viable for non rain teams using our favorite land shark. Though you might want a LO to have better chances of a 2hko against zong if running chomp in a sun team.
Calcs for Skarm:
0SpAtk Garchomp (-SAtk) Fire Blast in Sun vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Skarmory (Neutral): 77% - 91% (260 - 306 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
0SpAtk Garchomp (-SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Skarmory (Neutral): 51% - 61% (172 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
0SpAtk Life Orb Garchomp (-SAtk) Fire Blast in Sun vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Skarmory (Neutral): 101% - 118% (338 - 396 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
Calcs for Bronzong
0SpAtk Garchomp (-SAtk) Fire Blast in Sun vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Bronzong (Neutral): 50% - 59% (170 - 202 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
0 SpA Jolly Life Orb Sand Veil Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Leftovers Levitate Bronzong : 164-195 (48.52 - 57.69%) -- 96.88% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. This is with sun.
0 SpA Jolly Life Orb Sand Veil Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Relaxed Leftovers Levitate Bronzong : 146-174 (43.19 - 51.47%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Bryce
Lun
Finally,chompy's back in OU.It's a very positive change imo.Garchomp will have a good amount of influence on the meta,but from my experiences in suspect OU,Garchomp will have really tough competition from other sweepers in OU.
What i like to mention is DragonSpam,more know as Dragmag being influenced by garchomp.This form of HO was overshadowed by Rain/Sun offense and teams with newly introduced HO mons such as techniloom and Keldeo.Garchomp is likely to revive it when paired with monsters like newly buffed up salamence,Dragonite,Latios etc.I think SD chomp will be a very useful for this kind of teams as Chomp can get rid of steels Mag can't like SpDef wish+protect bitchRachi and Heatran as well as draw in and weaken/KO other defensive threats like Gliscor and Hippo which annoys other physical dragons while still maintaining good amount of health.
As for Haxorus,I also think that it might go down below OU.It is just outclassed by other dragons in many if not all ways.However Haxorus is definitely too strong for UU so i guess he might end up in BL.but yeah it's just a prediction,no one can really tell what might happen.
What i like to mention is DragonSpam,more know as Dragmag being influenced by garchomp.This form of HO was overshadowed by Rain/Sun offense and teams with newly introduced HO mons such as techniloom and Keldeo.Garchomp is likely to revive it when paired with monsters like newly buffed up salamence,Dragonite,Latios etc.I think SD chomp will be a very useful for this kind of teams as Chomp can get rid of steels Mag can't like SpDef wish+protect bitchRachi and Heatran as well as draw in and weaken/KO other defensive threats like Gliscor and Hippo which annoys other physical dragons while still maintaining good amount of health.
As for Haxorus,I also think that it might go down below OU.It is just outclassed by other dragons in many if not all ways.However Haxorus is definitely too strong for UU so i guess he might end up in BL.but yeah it's just a prediction,no one can really tell what might happen.
One thing I'm curious ta this point, which I'd lik to test in this meta is to compare garchomp and dragonite under rain and sun. As much as I firmly believe garchomp will remain to be one of the top-tier mons, I can't say I'd personally choose garchomp over dragonite under the sun and rainstorm. Garchomp does have the raw speed, natural bulk, SR resistance, and STAB EQ, I'm wondering if that's enough to be chosen over dragonite, which has multiscale, dragon dance to sweep easier, and ground-attack resistance.
As for the CB set, garchomp, again, has the natural speed and STAB-EQ advantages (and more). But dragonite bring its multiscale and extremespeed (though I personally belive ES to be a very situational attack that isn't too big of an advantage).
And to end my series of questions, I'd like to finish off with a technical question: Is it really important to look at the pokemon's future effect on the meta...whether it will be healthy to the meta or not? Or are we simply looking at the uncompetitiveness/brokenness of one specific mon?
As for the CB set, garchomp, again, has the natural speed and STAB-EQ advantages (and more). But dragonite bring its multiscale and extremespeed (though I personally belive ES to be a very situational attack that isn't too big of an advantage).
And to end my series of questions, I'd like to finish off with a technical question: Is it really important to look at the pokemon's future effect on the meta...whether it will be healthy to the meta or not? Or are we simply looking at the uncompetitiveness/brokenness of one specific mon?
I like Garchomp in this metagame. It's not as overwhelming as it was in 4th gen, but it should still leave a mark. Whilst many Pokemon outclass him in individual characteristics, what Garchomp offers is a healthy palette of strength, bulk and speed that other Pokemon lack. BW2 teams are unlikely to be built around it, but I'm sure it will make an excellent team member .
I think rain teams will appreciate Chomp the most - the common rain abusers tend to share common weaknesses to Electric and Rock, and Chomp can be used to take such burdens when using something like Ferrothorn or Gliscor would break up the pace. Though Landorus-T can already perform such a role, Garchomp has the advantages of higher speed and a more useful secondary STAB in Dragon.
Garchomp also helps to deal with weather in general - it can take hits from and threaten many common sand/sun teams. Don't expect it to take the really big hits from high-BP neutral STABs, but it can take a particular assault when it needs to (remember that it has natural bulk better than that of Swampert!).
I think the best set will be the Choice Scarf set, as Garchomp has a very anti-meta base Speed stat of 102, giving it the edge over a lot of other things. CB definitely looks good too though, and SDYache sets also seem as if they'd be effective in this metagame (especially considering many teams would rely on Genesect Ice Beam to revenge kill Garchomp, and Skarmory/Bronzong aren't particularly common atm).
I think rain teams will appreciate Chomp the most - the common rain abusers tend to share common weaknesses to Electric and Rock, and Chomp can be used to take such burdens when using something like Ferrothorn or Gliscor would break up the pace. Though Landorus-T can already perform such a role, Garchomp has the advantages of higher speed and a more useful secondary STAB in Dragon.
Garchomp also helps to deal with weather in general - it can take hits from and threaten many common sand/sun teams. Don't expect it to take the really big hits from high-BP neutral STABs, but it can take a particular assault when it needs to (remember that it has natural bulk better than that of Swampert!).
I think the best set will be the Choice Scarf set, as Garchomp has a very anti-meta base Speed stat of 102, giving it the edge over a lot of other things. CB definitely looks good too though, and SDYache sets also seem as if they'd be effective in this metagame (especially considering many teams would rely on Genesect Ice Beam to revenge kill Garchomp, and Skarmory/Bronzong aren't particularly common atm).
Why not use Mencie instead if you want to run mixed?
Garchomp LOVES sun and rain. Only expect those weathers to become more common with garchomp being on them.
Also at Garchomp not taking big hits....
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 0 HP/4 Def Garchomp: 85.15% - 100.28%
2.56% chance to OHKO
It can definitely take big hits.
252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam vs 0 HP/0 +1 SpDef Yache Berry Garchomp: 94.12% - 110.92%
58.97% chance to OHKO
If you want to beat Gensect, you use salac berry, so you actually outspeed it (and any scarfer with less than 102 base speed).
Garchomp is faster, has swords dance, has way better bulk, has better STABs, has better typing, and has surprise value.
Anyway, imo...this is the worst thing that could possibly happen to the metagame (well excluding ridiculous stuff like legalising arceus).
GG any style of play besides HO. I'll be surprised if Garchomp lasts in OU until the end of the year tbh.
On the bright side, we'll have a #1 that isn't bug/steel or a weather starter.
Use a defense hindering nature.
Genesect now gets an attack boost
+0 Scarf Genesect Ice Beam vs Yache Chomp: 226-266 (63.12 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 Yache Chomp Earthquake vs Scarf Genesect: 340-402 (120.14 - 142.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's brilliant that they've taken away Sand Veil from the landshark bastard, missing an Ice Beam/Punch/Shard on the thing could quite often be gamebreaking, as if you missed there's a high chance that your Chomp-counter just got OHKO'd.
I believe it should never have really been anything but Uber, its like Excadrill, its really a no-brainer. Something that can be destructive and can OHKO most things straight off the bat with no set-up should never really be anything but Uber. It will change the OU metagame, because I know that now, I'm going to run HP Ice on Balloon Heatran or IBeam on Starmie.
I believe it should never have really been anything but Uber, its like Excadrill, its really a no-brainer. Something that can be destructive and can OHKO most things straight off the bat with no set-up should never really be anything but Uber. It will change the OU metagame, because I know that now, I'm going to run HP Ice on Balloon Heatran or IBeam on Starmie.
Neliel
Sacred Sword
Im scared. Sub+sd Garchomp still has perfect coverage and enough power to ruin anything (well some steels can "stop" this set, Skarmory comes to mind but it can only phaze it) and even if its true that the metagame is that fast placed, if a garchomp can get a sub, well, gl at stopping it, you will have to sacrifice a pokemon for sure.
Chandelure is much more powerful (Specs Overheat in the sun 2HKOs Blissey) and is UU. Haxorus is much more powerful (and gets Dragon Dance! Imagine if Garchomp did) and is languishing near the bottom of OU usage. The problem with Garchomp was ALWAYS Sand Veil, not some mythical power he had.
The reason I said Scarf Starmie to the rescue is because Garchomp usually runs either sub SD as a sweeper or Scarf as a revenge killer. It's safer to run Scarf on Starmie just because most Garchomps would run Scarves themselves rather than Yache,Rocky Helmet, Band, or even freaking Expert Belt.
Completely true. You have to build teams around threats, and give them checks. As the calcs say, With Chompy's Yache set, it's a guaranteed 2HKO from Genesekuto's Ice Beam.
Chandelure is terribly slow and trapped and killed by Tyranitar while barely touching heatran, there's a reason it's UU. But I know you weren't trying to say it's broken so eh. It also has easily resisted STAB moves and so is walled with prediction.
Haxorus doesn't break Skarm in any weather, nor does it have ground STAB and the bulk of Garchomp.
The problem with Garchomp is immediately obvious with sand veil, but it's still there without it.
The ability to have no counters or safe switch ins with one set that also packs substitute and thus requires little prediction is pretty extreme.
(Besides skarm and zong, who are both trapped by magnezone and outright defeated by all out offensive sets)
Plus you can't even safely revenge kill it without a scarfer that's faster than 102 base speed and packing and ice or dragon move (which both fail against the right berry). Or Mamoswine I guess, though you still have to sac a poke to break Chomp's sub in most cases.
Think you made a mistake with one of those, as they should have different damage outputs. Anyways, Fire Blast on Garchomp is very good, and I had used it to a lot of success on the suspect ladder. After you Swords Dance, Skarmory's are bound to switch in. Fire Blast can hit them really hard, and make them too weak to try and stop your sweep later in the match. The one big difference between Fire Blast and Fire Fang, is that Fire Fang needs to be at +2/higher to do its job. Fire Blast can work regardless of whether Garchomp has gotten a boost. This makes it much easier to wear down Pokemon like Skarmory early game, when boosting may not be the best idea, and helps ensure a Garchomp sweep later game.
Mence has kind of usurped his scarf set because of moxie, I foresee the Band set growing in popularity. Fire Fang+Aqua tail could be run on the same set on a weatherless team in order to mess with rain+sun teams. Despite his 102 speed (seriously that number was chosen just to make people mad) to me Chomp's real selling point is his bulk. Not being as bothered by powerful priority and the ability to live random hp ices from defensive pokemon like bronzong without yache is just amazing.
Dark Fallen Angel
FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
Garchomp is neither a Sand Dragon nor a Sun Dragon. As I said before, it is a Dragon. Just it. The loss of Sand Veil means that you will get the same results using Garchomp on a sandstorm team that you would get using it on a sun team or rain team. Just like any other dragon on the meta.
252SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 52% - 61% (174 - 206 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 26% - 31% (88 - 104 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 40% - 47% (134 - 158 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 20% - 23% (68 - 80 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang vs 252HP/232Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+Def): 49% - 58% (164 - 194 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 16% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang in Rain vs 252HP/232Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+Def): 23% - 28% (80 - 96 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 57% - 68% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 29% - 34% (98 - 116 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 64% - 75% (214 - 252 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang in Rain vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 31% - 37% (106 - 126 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 26% - 31% (88 - 104 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 40% - 47% (134 - 158 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 20% - 23% (68 - 80 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang vs 252HP/232Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+Def): 49% - 58% (164 - 194 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 16% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang in Rain vs 252HP/232Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+Def): 23% - 28% (80 - 96 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 57% - 68% (192 - 228 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
4SpAtk Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 29% - 34% (98 - 116 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 64% - 75% (214 - 252 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk +2 Garchomp (Neutral) Fire Fang in Rain vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 31% - 37% (106 - 126 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Correct calcs. It appears that while Fire Blast seems to be the better option, Fire Fang is the way to go, as you need heavy investiment in SpA to do more damage than Fire Fang. Of course, if Garchomp's Atk is at +0, Fire Blast will always do more damage.
You should be running flamethrower over fire blast anyway. Fire is a super essential coverage type on Chomp and an untimely miss can have you phased out or toxiced by skarm or zong. Fire fang has that annoying 95% accuracy so it's also a problem though less of one. Fire fang is better on the SD set flamethrower is better unboosted, and a serious threat with sun support.
rain is so common fire fang is so.... weak and unless your carrying life orb fire blast is pathetic. Tbh chomps best friend is magenezone, he can deal with the bulk of things chomp can't, namley skarmory, fortress and ferrothorn. It's not like magenzone wasn't a dragons best friend before.
Chomp doesn't have a problem with Ferrothorn or Forretress, they're both 2HKO'd by +2 Earthquake. Chomp does need support to deal with Skarmory though.