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Garchomp

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by AfroThunderRule, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule *yawn* ez
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    Looks like our little sand shark buddy is back to OU, didn't see a thread about the little fella. I hope this topic is allowed here.
    [​IMG]

    HP; 108
    Attack: 130
    Defense: 95
    Special Attack: 80
    Special Defense: 85
    Speed: 102

    Typing:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Abilities:
    Sand Veil: Raises the Pokémon’s evasion during a sandstorm by one level.
    Rough Skin: The opponent is hurt by 1/16th of his maximum Hit Points of recoil when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon.

    Move Data:

    Level Up moves:
    Show Hide

    Start Up: Fire Fang
    Start Up: Tackle
    Start Up: Sand-Attack
    Start Up: Dragon Rage
    Start Up: Sandstorm
    Level 3: Sand-Attack
    Level 7: Dragon Rage
    Level 13: Sandstorm
    Level 15: Take Down
    Level 19: Sand Tomb
    Level 24: Dual Chop
    Level 28: Slash
    Level 33: Dragon Claw
    Level 40: Dig
    Level 48: Crunch
    Level 55: Dragon Rush


    TMs and HMs:
    Show Hide

    TM01: Hone Claw
    TM02: Dragon Claw
    TM05: Roar
    TM06: Toxic
    TM10: Hidden Power
    TM11: Sunny Day
    TM15: Hyper Beam
    TM17: Protect
    TM18: Rain Dance
    TM21: Frustration
    TM26: Earthquake
    TM27: Return
    TM28: Dig
    TM31: Brick Break
    TM32: Double Team
    TM35: Flamethrower
    TM37: Sandstorm
    TM38: Fire Blast
    TM39: Rock Tomb
    TM40: Aerial Ace
    TM42: Facade
    TM44: Rest
    TM45: Attract
    TM48: Round
    TM54: False Swipe
    TM56: Fling
    TM59: Incinerate
    TM65: Shadow Claw
    TM68: Giga Impact
    TM71: Stone Edge
    TM75: Sword Dance
    TM78: Bulldoze
    TM80: Rock Slide
    TM82: Dragon Tail
    TM84: Poison Jab
    TM87: Swagger
    TM90: Substitute
    TM94: Rock Smash
    HM01: Cut
    HM03: Surf
    HM04: Strength


    Egg Moves:
    Show Hide

    Dragon breath
    Outrage
    Twister
    Scary Face
    Double Edge
    Thrash
    Metal Claw
    Sand Tomb
    Body Slam
    Iron Head
    Mud Shot
    Rock Climb
    Iron Tail


    Move Tutor:
    Show Hide

    Aqua Tail
    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Pulse
    Dual Chop
    Earth Power
    Iron Head
    Iron Tail
    Outrage
    Sleep Talk
    Snore
    Stealth Rock


    Gen 3/4 only moves:
    Show Hide
    Secret Power
    Endure
    Captivate
    Natural Gift
    Whirlpool
    Fury Cutter
    Swift
    Mud-Slap
    Headbutt



    Well he's back, what should we do? Spam the classic set that made him ubers in the first place? Well hold on, it seems Sand Veil is banned so we can't use Sand Veil on out favorite Sand Shark. But no worries, Garchomp is still a huge force to be reckon with in the OU metagame.


    Possible sets:

    Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry / Life Orb / Salac Berry Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw / Outrage

    - Fire Fang / Aqua Tail /Substitute



    The classic set. Pretty standard stuff and it's also very customizable for the team you are running.



    Garchomp (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 8 SDef / 92 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake
    - Sleep Talk


    Very bulky, can easily live a hit phase with Dragon Tail. Be sure to use hazard support for this.


    Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Fang


    Typical revenge killer, with Scarf it can out speed all forms of Landorus, Thundrus-T, Genesect, varies base 100 Pokemon (Salamence, Jirachi)





    Sorry If I'm not allowed to do this. Didn't see a topic (searched it and didn't see anything) on it and figured to make one,
  2. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Just so it's convenient for everyone who was curious, I present the results from the Suspect test.
  3. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

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    Welp there goes haxorus. See you in uu buddy.

    Hrm... without Sand Veil I have a feeling Garchomp will be more anti meta than anything else. That 102 speed is still very trollish with it's ability to outrun not only many scarfs with it's scarf, but most importantly it can outpace choice scarf genesect making it a worthy check to Voltturn (as it also isn't affected by Volt Switch) only time will tell how it is in the OU environment though.
  4. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    Minor nitpick, but:

    Since Sand Veil is banned, technically those moves are not allowed.
  5. lordkira

    lordkira

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    Agreed with chomp being a great anti-meta mon.
    The choice scarf set is as great as always.
    I was wondering...wth 102-speed-wielding garchomp back in OU, how will this affect thundurus-t? I didn't play the suspect ladder much to be honest.

    Personally, I'll be trying out the choice band, choice scarf, and SDYacheChomp on hyper offensive teams.
  6. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Choice Band is also a very good set on Garchomp. It can hit ridiculously hard, and has good bulk to back it up. It has pretty much the same moves/EV's as the Choice Scarf set. For the Salac Berry set, I would recommend putting Substitute as a slash or as a main move. Just because Garchomp lost Sand Veil, doesn't mean that Substitute has lost all of its competitive use. Substitute also helps in activating Salac Berry much easier, rather than blindly hoping for a random attack to push Garchomp under 25%.
  7. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    I am actually having some difficulty trying to fit Garchomp on a sandstorm team. I think that Garchomp will not actually be as great on sand without its SV ability. This is because Landorus, while having 1 less speed and not having a good flying STAB (Garchomp has two good STABs, and good attacks from both STABs, but Landorus only has good Ground attacks, it lacks a good Flying one), is technically more powerful under sandstorm, has U-Turn and has a usable (very usable) special attack. How could Garchomp do well on sand? I heard some people saying that it would actually be better on sun teams.
  8. Zeta5

    Zeta5

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    The fact that he's back makes my day :)
  9. DudeOfTheCentury

    DudeOfTheCentury

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    [​IMG]
    I also had a very hard time putting Big Chompers on Sand Teams. I always ran the Choice Scarf just because it outspeeds so many threats as if it were freaking priority, so OU is going to have pretty much the same deal. I'm all for the change, but because it's so damn fast and and has awesome coverage, this I'll shake up the entire OverUsed metagame. Haxorus and Hydreigon can't outspeed it, and Latios and Latias can only outspeed it with a Scarf (and if Chompy does.) STAB Earthquake hits everything hard even if it does resist it. I just fear what'll happen to the rest of the tier now that Garchomp is back.
  10. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

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    Rain will have competition. Which is not really a bad thing.
  11. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Why? I don't know why people still associate Garchomp with sandstorm. Now that it can't use Sand Veil, the only thing that it can abuse in sandstorm is the fact that he is immune to the passive sandstorm damage, and many opponents aren't.

    Apart from this, Garchomp doesn't really has anything that makes him a special pokémon for sandstorm teams, and actually it can be abused on rain (with acess to Aqua Tail) and even on sun (Fire Fang) just as it can be abused on sandstorm.

    Garchomp now is just like any other dragon in OU. It can be used on every team, but there is no single type that has something to wich Garchomp can really abuse with.

    I am still having some difficulty trying to fit it on my sandstorm team and I think that Landorus will still give him harsh competition.
  12. DudeOfTheCentury

    DudeOfTheCentury

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    lol I just noticed something...

    Garchomp's back? Choice Scarf Starmie(Max Sp.A) To the rescue!!
    [​IMG]
  13. lordkira

    lordkira

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    I also cannot see garchomp being any significant SS teammate. It's still a great mon in rain and sun as guy above stated. But as a dedicated SS sweeper/wallbreaker, I can't see chomp being anything special. To be honest, I find Terrakion and Landorus easier to fit into SS teams. Garchomp is still a beastly wallbreaker in sun and rain however.
  14. tehy

    tehy

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    Dudeofthecentury, starmie outspeeds him anyhow, not like u need a scarf.

    More like skarm to the rescue IMO.
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Now that Garchomp is back in OU, the madness that is called SubCM Jirachi in rain will stop. Garchomp destroyes any variant of SubCM Jirachi, as it easily comes into Thunder and tanks Psyshock / Water Pulse all day long. If Jirachi has Water Pulse, Garchomp still has 80% to OHKO Jirachi with EQ on the first turn in, assuming it is using Choice Band / LO, or that Jirachi has Subed once. 80% because Water Pulse has 40% to confuse you, and you have 50% of hitting though confusion.

    CB Garchomp in general seems as a very solid poke in this meta, and helps check those motahfucking Thundurus-T, SubCM Jirachi and Genesect without having to resort to a defensive Ground type, such as Gastrodon or SpD Hippo.
  16. StairFall

    StairFall

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    Just ran some calculations and +2 fire fang in the sun deals 60-71 percent to physically defensive skarmory, guarantedd 2hko. I imagine that Chomp's scarf set will be somewhat less powerful now though. Mence has been running around with his new Moxie+outrage which allows him to not just revenge but outright clean through teams. Chomp seems more like he would be using his 100+ speed tier to outspeed none scarfed threats and obliterate them. A CB set with fire fang+aqua tail would make it a great anti meta stall breaker to combat sun and rain teams.

    Edit: See you around BL haxorus, it's gotta suck to be number two.
  17. The Scarecrow

    The Scarecrow

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    Haxorus will NOT go UU... Sure it's likely outclassed by Garchomp in many regards, but it still has its own upsides...

    And even if it is used less and less thanks to Chomp, I think the worst it could do is go to BL eventually. 147 Attack and even 97 Speed (with strong sets such as DD and CB) is WAY too powerful for UU....Imo
  18. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    What I find that makes Garchomp so great on sandstorm is the ability for CB Tyranitar just to lure in every single common check/counter and procede to destroy it with a CB Stone Edge or Crunch. Skarmory in particular never assumes the CB Stone Edge and finds itself 2HKO'ed by it or switching out with <50% of its health.

    However this will be my favorite Garchomp set (the same one I mentioned in the General Metagame thread) and it makes great use of sand damage.

    Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance

    Essentially, Pokemon that rely on contact moves (particularly Gyro Ball) will have to face the annoying consequence of getting hit with Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet damage every time they want to break the Substitute. By just trying to get at Garchomp, you can effectively force your opponent to weaken his own counters. You have to face the decision to A. break Garchomp's spammed Substitute's while you get weaker and weaker from Sand+Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet or B. Switch out and let Garchomp get a free Substitute. This set will make for a particularly cool pseudo-spin blocker on HO teams since any Rapid Spinner will die and the effect of Rapid Spin won't take place.
  19. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
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    Garchomp isn't going to fit well over other sand sweepers since he doesn't get any advantage from the sand aside from being immune to the passive damage. But he's still Garchomp so he'll be able to fit on any style of team you want to play him in. His coverage moves can be tailored for sun or rain and his typing is good enough to fit on any team. He's not going to be a big fan of any specific weather to the point where he is an 'abuser' but he'll fit well on all styles of teams because he's got good typing/bulk and he's fast/strong. Sword Dance fits well if you need something to sweep or just do a lot of damage, Choice band will be difficult to switch into if you pair it with Magnezone to remove steel-types, and Choice Scarf is obviously going to be important since he out runs base 100s and is strong enough to revenge kill most threats.

    I will admit I've been a little let down when trying to put Garchomp on a team because all though he is really good, his sets don't really set themselves apart like they used to. I still think he'll be the best Dragon user of Sword Dance, but Choice Scarf and Choice Band not so much. Scarf Mence isn't as good of a revenge killer, but it's a better cleaner thanks to Moxie and it's ability to run different sets. If I see a Garchomp in the coming days I'm pretty sure it's either SD or Scarf, both of which are dealt with in a similar manner, where as with Salamence it could be DD, Scarf, or Mixed which means it's a little harder to predict. As for Choice Band, Dragonite has priority and a higher attack stat so I think he'll be able to do that job a bit better.

    Garchomp obviously has ground typing and speed over the other physical dragons, but he lacks that fighting resist that's really crucial in the current metagame. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's amazing and can fill all three of the above roles I mentioned plus maybe one or two other sets that aren't popular/discovered yet. But I don't think he's as defining as he used to be and that once the hype over him being unbanned passes I don't think he'll break into the top five for usage.
  20. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    To be honest, its tipying is one of main reasons why I am having difficulty to fit Garchomp on a sandstorm team. Sure, it's neutral to Water, wich is good news to sandstorm teams that have many weakness to Water-type, and has fucking amazing STABs.

    But Garchomp lacks important resistances, such as to Fighting and Bug, and also lacks a Ground-type immunity. That's one of reasons why I find Landorus hard to replace with Garchomp, even considering the above factors and the extra point on speed.

    There are also other reasons, such as lack of U-Turn to mantain momentum, and the fact that Garchomp is now as good on sandstorm as it is on rain and sun, only having the advantage of being immune to sandstorm damage, while Landorus has Sand Force, Terrakion gets a boost on Special Defense, Stoutland doubles speed, and so on.
  21. Lavo$

    Lavo$
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    [​IMG]

    need I say more
  22. StairFall

    StairFall

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    This set looks like it's going to be fun, my only problem is almost all substitute users have some type of passive recovery for the sake of making more than 4 substitutes. Without lefties You put a hard limit on the number of subs you can have without wish support which is always counter intuitive to abusing subs. There isn't much of a reason to have a pseudo spinblocker anyway since hyper offence usually relies on simply destroying spinners instead. Add to that that Gengar is way fast and way strong and can beat starmie because it often carries sub and this set doesn't really have any sort of niche. Ferro pulls it off much better and absolutely punishes outrage users too.
  23. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

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    I just think that sand now has more options for physical dragons (I'm ruling out Dragonite here), especially one that can play like a faster Lando with a vicious stabbed Outrage.

    Did anyone mention resistance to SR? Although taking spikes and TS isn't great...
  24. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    Garchomp isn't a Sand Dragon. It's a Sun Dragon now. Immunity to sand is just a nice bonus.
  25. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

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    Well, anything that isn't pro rain gets a thumbs up from me.

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