Gengar (ProtectGar) [QC: 1/3]

[Trinitrotoluene]

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Status: Quality Control
QC Approvals: [Straw Hat Luffy], [ ], [ ]
QC Rejections: [Pocket], [zdrup15], [Bloo]
GP Checks: [ ], [ ]
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The start of a revolution...

[SET]
name: ProtectGar (is this a better name than FUK VOLTTURN, or should I go back to MYSTICgar?)
move 1: Protect
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

• Most of Gengar's counters are choiced, so Protect is a good way of scouting out their next move
• Protect helps against VoltTurning teams since many VoltTurners are Choiced
• Lets Gengar win the prediction game, beat Scizor and Tyranitar, two of its most common counters, and provide teammates a free switch-in
• EVs are standard fare

Additional Comments:

• An effective spin-blocker, benefits from hazards whittling at the opponent's team
• Life Orb could be used to boost power, but Leftovers keeps Gengar in good shape; also cancels out sandstorm damage
• Still needs to keep an eye out for non-Choice Scizor and ScarfTar

Teammates and Counters:

• MAGNEZONE
• Pokemon that want Scizor gone
• Fighting-types
• Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, other hazard setters

 

[Fatecrashers]

from the AC of sub + 3 attacks

"Protect was a lot more effective back in DPP due to the prevalence of Choice Pursuit users, namely Scizor and Tyranitar. However, they are no longer as popular as they were, making Protect a barely adequate option to use over Substitute. It can still be used to conserve HP and scout for the occasional Choice trapper, however."

so uh...explain the benefits of this set over sub + 3 attacks, which it is extremely similar to

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Protect allows Gengar to scout moves while restoring its HP. Using Substitute forces Gengar to lose 18.75% of its HP (assuming no sandstorm and Lefties is being used) in one turn just to scout an attack. With Protect in its moveset, Gengar doesn't have to lose any of its HP to scout moves, and in turn can give a teammate a free switch-in, possibly letting them set up.

An example: Gengar vs CB Scizor, aiming to revenge it once Gengar has scored a KO. Normally, with the Sub + 3 Attacks set, if you're not behind a sub, you're forced out without knowledge of the attack that Scizor is using, fearing a Bullet Punch. For all one might know, they could be switching their Magnezone into a Superpower or U-turn, and not the Bullet Punch or Pursuit desired. With Protect, one can see the move used and act accordingly from there. Ultimately, knowledge of your opponent's moveset is the one thing this set guarantees, without loss of HP. Such knowledge gives the user of this set an advantage in battle.

 

[jc104]

CB Scizor is way more popular than it was when the gengar analysis was written, which is worth noting. I'd say that if this is added it should be combined with sub+3 attacks, as they are pretty similar, whichever is superior.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Protect allows Gengar to scout moves while restoring its HP. Using Substitute forces Gengar to lose 18.75% of its HP (assuming no sandstorm and Lefties is being used) in one turn just to scout an attack. With Protect in its moveset, Gengar doesn't have to lose any of its HP to scout moves, and in turn can give a teammate a free switch-in, possibly letting them set up.

An example: Gengar vs CB Scizor, aiming to revenge it once Gengar has scored a KO. Normally, with the Sub + 3 Attacks set, if you're not behind a sub, you're forced out without knowledge of the attack that Scizor is using, fearing a Bullet Punch. For all one might know, they could be switching their Magnezone into a Superpower or U-turn, and not the Bullet Punch or Pursuit desired. With Protect, one can see the move used and act accordingly from there. Ultimately, knowledge of your opponent's moveset is the one thing this set guarantees, without loss of HP. Such knowledge gives the user of this set an advantage in battle.

I'm sorry, but this logic can be applied to literally every Pokemon in the game. So it screws around with prediction. That's what Protect does. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of unoriginality in this subforum lately, since nearly every Pokemon can feasibly run a set with Substitute or Protect on it. So the question with this set is, sure it can do something that no other Gengar set can, but is this significantly better to warrant an on-site analysis? I'm thinking no, since I'd still rather use Substitute. One of Substitute's best aspects is its ability to prevent revenge killing.

 

[Harsha]

I'm sorry, but this logic can be applied to literally every Pokemon in the game. So it screws around with prediction. That's what Protect does. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of unoriginality in this subforum lately, since nearly every Pokemon can feasibly run a set with Substitute or Protect on it. So the question with this set is, sure it can do something that no other Gengar set can, but is this significantly better to warrant an on-site analysis? I'm thinking no, since I'd still rather use Substitute. One of Substitute's best aspects is its ability to prevent revenge killing.

And one of Protect's best aspects is that it can give Gengar a better choice of what to do. For instance, what happens when you lose your Sub and kill something? The opponent then brings out Scizor. Now what do you do? With Protect, you can just scout and move along accordingly. With Sub, you're sorta screwed. In a metagame where Scizor rules, as well as where you want to retain as much HP as possible, this thing plays pretty well.

p.s.: please do not call out people for being "unoriginal," it just shows pettiness which is unnecessary. if you don't think a set is viable, just state your reasons.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

The problem with Protect is that you cannot guarantee that Scizor has a Choice Band. Swords Dance is perfectly viable on Scizor. SD Scizor can just use Swords Dance as you use Protect and just kill you with Bullet Punch on the next turn. With Substitute, you can set up a Substitute as Scizor comes in and either do a heavy chunk with LO Focus Blast from the SubSplit set, Disable Bullet Punch if you're using SubDisable, or just kill it with HP Fire with Sub + 3 Attacks.

Substitute is overall just loads more effective than Protect. I never liked using MYSTICgar in DPP, and I don't see a significant metagame change that would make MYSTICgar any more viable. In fact, I'd say that with the reduced usage of ScarfTar, it's less effective.

 

[Nova]

The problem with Protect is that you cannot guarantee that Scizor has a Choice Band. Swords Dance is perfectly viable on Scizor. SD Scizor can just use Swords Dance as you use Protect and just kill you with Bullet Punch on the next turn. With Substitute, you can set up a Substitute as Scizor comes in and either do a heavy chunk with LO Focus Blast from the SubSplit set, Disable Bullet Punch if you're using SubDisable, or just kill it with HP Fire with Sub + 3 Attacks.

Substitute is overall just loads more effective than Protect. I never liked using MYSTICgar in DPP, and I don't see a significant metagame change that would make MYSTICgar any more viable. In fact, I'd say that with the reduced usage of ScarfTar, it's less effective.

I'd like to point out ScarftTar has regained much popularity as of late. Protect on Gengar also helps against Terrakion who are often choiced. Usually when Terra is on Gengar it will either go for the safe Stone Edge or predict the switch and CC so Protect definitely helps in this common matchup

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I'd like to point out ScarftTar has regained much popularity as of late. Protect on Gengar also helps against Terrakion who are often choiced. Usually when Terra is on Gengar it will either go for the safe Stone Edge or predict the switch and CC so Protect definitely helps in this common matchup

I haven't seen ScarfTar very much at all.

I understand the use of Protect on just about anything, but to me use of Protect on Gengar seems to be severely limited. I'll counter the "Terrakion is often choiced" argument as well. Terrakion may also run a double dance set. As Gengar uses Protect, Terrakion may instead use Rock Polish and then it's free to just use Stone Edge on you next turn. I've used Protect quite a bit in the past, its usefulness is basically limited to scouting against Choiced Pokemon. If you really need to beat Scizor, use something like Gyarados, who counters any Scizor. This Gengar can only beat Choiced Scizor, and as I said, you can't guarantee Scizor has a Choice Band/Scarf. I can apply the same exact thing to just about anything this Gengar can handle that other variants of Gengar have a harder time with, and Substitute is still at least a million times more useful than Protect.

 

[Lee]

i think the main thing to consider here is this:

1 | Scizor 30.009%
Item | 66.0 | Choice Band

Scizor puts Gengar in a checkmate position - Bullet Punch OHKOs and Pursuit OHKOs regardless of switch. It's pretty awful when the most used Pokemon on the game (by some distance I might add) does that to you, and this is the only set which can virtually guarantee to either beat CB Scizor or escape unscathed in a standard battle scenario. It's not about countering or luring or anything like that - it's about not automatically losing your Gengar all the friggin' time whilst still being able to do normal Gengar-y stuff.

But Protect has utility beyond Scizor. I remember that this was a great set in DPPt since back then a lot of the stuff that was used to check Gengar was Choiced (I'm thinking specifically Rotom-A, Heatran, enemy Gengar and of course Scizor) so Protect was a big 'fuck you' and enabled you to grab back some momentum from out of the blue. I imagine it functioning similar in this metagame since there's only four Pokemon in OU that outspeed Gengar without the aid of a Choice Scarf.

not a bad set by any means, probably more consistently useful than that godawful SubDisable set but that's a whole 'nother story.

 

[Harsha]

^yes! this is VERY viable given the current metagame and voltturn, and this is a great way to gain momentum back without using voltturners of your own

 

[-Tsunami-]

Yeah, I'm gonna support this set just because of the prevalence of Volt-Turn teams. You now no longer have to guess when playing against Scizor, Landorus, or Rotom-W, which is extremely helpful, especially since Gengar takes U-Turns all day and can take a Volt Switch. Definitely add something about Volt-Turn to the set.

 

[Cherub Agent]

Just wanted to point out that mentioning ScarfTar is irrelevant, since it outspeeds Gengar and brings it down with Pursuit, regardless of Protect. This only works against stuff like CB Tar

Nevertheless, I used this set extensively last gen, and found it to be extremely effective. The popularity of CB Scizor in this metagame too only leads me to believe that this set would be just as effective

 

[Zecram]

/\ scarf ttar wont OHKO if you are full HP, and he is OHKOed by focus blast due to no investment in HP/Sdef

 

[-Tsunami-]

/\ scarf ttar wont OHKO if you are full HP, and he is OHKOed by focus blast due to no investment in HP/Sdef

That's up to prediction though...since Crunch OHKOs. And if Stealth Rock is up, you have a decent change of being ko'd by Pursuit.

 

[alexwolf]

That's up to prediction though...since Crunch OHKOs. And if Stealth Rock is up, you have a decent change of being ko'd by Pursuit.

No prediciton is needed since you have Protect. If they use Crunch switch out, if they don't kill with FB. Assuming you know that they use Scarf in the first place.

 

[November Blue]

Why is it called MYSTICgar?

 

[TrollFreak]

thats the name of the set back in DPP

[SET]
name: MYSTICgar (Protect)
move 1: Protect
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

^ yea, you should add Life Orb, works wonders in DPP

 

[November Blue]

I know that ...

I did a search for username MYSTIC and found nothing. Where did the name come from?

 

[TrollFreak]

oh the name idk lol, ask the orginal writer or something :P

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Oh, and MYSTICgar. When I first told Aldaron about this set, someone in #warau piped in that it was mysterious, and then it was changed again to MYSTICgar. I expressed my initial annoyance at the name, but now it's sort of grown on me as everybody insists on using it. Whatever you choose to call it, I'm not fussed. KirbyGar has a good ring to it though ... (just kidding!)

It's been there along with standard sets like TinkerBell, so keep it the way it is. Thanks.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52527

I'll test this in my free time soon, so don't fret.

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

thats the name of the set back in DPP



^ yea, you should add Life Orb, works wonders in DPP

Life Orb is in AC. Should I bump it up to a slash?

EDIT: It has been done.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

I'd put some mention of 72 Evs in Defense, assuming you use Leftovers, you can survive a Bullet punch and take out Scizor with HP fire.

 

[PK Gaming]

Righteo.

QC APPROVED (1/3)

Approving this because Scizor is literally everywhere, and having a trump card against Volt-turn is useful. But man, Mysticgar is such a lame name, i'd kill for a better name than that. (no disrespect to whoever who came up with that time)

I'm giving you free reign over this set's name. Mysticgar, Protect Gengar.... anything that isn't stupid. Don't let me down son.

 

[Sayonara]

I'd recommend "Non-Choiced Scout" or something along those lines as name.