Pokémon Gyarados

[Anartya]

Awesome calcs, thanks for that. The 2HKO on Azumarill is a big one.

I'm still so torn haha. Even more food for thought: Jolly Aqua Tail does more damage than Adamant Waterfall. I'd say it's seriously worth considering on Jolly sets, to make up for the low power of its STAB.

252 Atk Gyarados Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 342-404 (94.73 - 111.91%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO (at 90% accuracy = 62% chance to OHKO, still higher than Adamant Waterfall)

Is the reward worth the risk? What do you think?

I think for a sweeper like Gyarados, accurate moves are better. Gyarados is not a wall breaker, and a single miss can end your sweep, and cost you the match. If Gyarados was Choice Banded, then I would prefer Aqua Tail over Waterfall. But I typically find that most pokemon that like to switch in on gyarados are resistant to water (i.e bulky water/bulky grass types). Most of the time I find myself using Earthquake/Stone Edge/Ice Fang/Bounce depending on your coverage move, which is stronger for Adamant Gyarados.

Here are the list of relevant pokemon that outspeed Adamant Bulky Gyarados in OU but not Jolly :
After +1 DD:
M. Gengar, Greninja, Alakazam, Jolteon, Crobat, Tornadus-T, Scarf Jolly Breloom, Scarf Timid Politoed, +1 max speed Dragonite
No DD:
Jolly Breloom, max speed Adamant Dragonite, Timid Politoed, max speed Adamant Mamoswine

The only one that is a problem here are: Jolteon, M. Gengar, Alakazam (but they typically have sash so even Jolly would have the same issue), Dragonite and Jolly Breloom. So I find that the loss in power for speed isn't really that nesissary.

 

[effyouzion]

^ Pretty sure Gyara outspeeds adamant Dragonite, and Dragonite only outspeeds Gyara if jolly, which is rare.

 

[Toosuto]

^ Pretty sure Gyara outspeeds adamant Dragonite, and Dragonite only outspeeds Gyara if jolly, which is rare.

Not only that, but laughs at all the WeaKness Policy sets roaming around the ranked games lately. I've actually considered getting rid of Ice Fang for Taunt, since Waterfall/EQ has excellent enough coverage.

I love Gyarados, man... just a beast in its own category.

 

[Anartya]

^ Pretty sure Gyara outspeeds adamant Dragonite, and Dragonite only outspeeds Gyara if jolly, which is rare.

I'm talking about the Bulky Adamant Gyarados set: 168 Speed EVs, so it outspeeds all base 115 speed pokemon after +1 DD, not the 252 Speed EVs Adamant Gyarados

 

[Prom]

I also prefer adamant as I do on every dragon dancer or speed booster.

My personal gyarados and every gyara I've used on a sim thus far has been bulky adamant dragon dance tauntrados. I have no problem saying that mega gyara performs this role better in almost every way. I never used flying stab anyway...it will miss leftovers though.

What's the EV spread that you run for bulky adamant tauntrados?

 

[Boondocker]

Not only that, but laughs at all the WeaKness Policy sets roaming around the ranked games lately. I've actually considered getting rid of Ice Fang for Taunt, since Waterfall/EQ has excellent enough coverage.

I love Gyarados, man... just a beast in its own category.

Water+Ground actually has pretty poor coverage. Dragonite, Salamence, Celebi, Rotom-W, other Gyrados, all wall you. Water+rock is better overall but then you cant touch Ferrothorn.

 

[Jin White]

Water+Ground actually has pretty poor coverage. Dragonite, Salamence, Celebi, Rotom-W, other Gyrados, all wall you. Water+rock is better overall but then you cant touch Ferrothorn.

While Water + Rock is resisted by less mons overall (10 vs. 87: http://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage) EQ has more utility for MegaGyara - perfect accuracy and the ability to take out Rotom-W is priceless. Yeah, Water + Ground is resisted by virtually all grass-types and flying dragons, but it does have the added bonus of kind of centralizing all the resisted mons to be taken out with the same kind of check/counter in a teammate. A strong Ice-type move nails all of them. You definitely will need something for opposing Gyarados, though, and maybe Abomasnow.

I'm running Protean LO Greninja with Ice Beam to pretty much annihilate every grass-type and OHKO Dragonite through multiscale, who otherwise walls and sets up on Waterfall + EQ Gyarados. I've also got a Scarf Rotom-H for more speed and a Gyarados check. It's working quite alright so far.

Oh and fun fact: with three move coverage, Waterfall + EQ + Ice Fang hits the entire metagame (read: pokédex) unresisted bar Surskit and Shedinja. With Waterfall + EQ + Stone Edge you still need something for the three Grass/Fighters.

 

[Dinosaurman]

I'm so tired of Mega Gyarados.. I'm not sure how people aren't talking about it but pretty much every team I've made so far gets cleanly 6-0d by it after a DD...

 

[Jin White]

I'm so tired of Mega Gyarados.. I'm not sure how people aren't talking about it but pretty much every team I've made so far gets cleanly 6-0d by it after a DD...

Hm. What sets/moves are giving you the most trouble? Hard countering Mega Gyarados, especially at +1, is damn hard since the Mega basically takes Gyarados' original answers and smashes them to pieces (Gastrodon, Toxicroak, Rotom-W to an extent). Suicune is an absolute counter, using Mega Gyarados as set up fodder and burning it with scald or phazing it out. Ferrothorn still gives it trouble, crippling it with T-Wave and hitting it hard with Power Whip.

Checking and revenge killing it even at +1 is a whole lot easier. Scarf Terrakion, Mienshao, and Heracross (but not Keldeo) all OHKO the Mega with their STABs. Scarf Rotom - or Sableye - neuters it with WoW. Conkeldurr easily tanks any +1 hit and kills it with Drain Punch/Thunderpunch + Mach Punch, accordingly. Celebi, Shaymin, and Mega Venusaur do alright with tanking a +1 Ice Fang (or EQ for Venusaur) and killing it off in turn, while Expert Belt Keldeo tanks a hit and nearly OHKOs with Secret Sword, so prior damage helps a lot. And finally, sun teams with Chlorophyll sweepers really hurt Mega Gyarados' effectiveness. There are a lot of options.

The trouble with Scarf U-Turn/Volt Switching is that a good Mega Gyarados player will tank anything that doesn't kill and set up again, so Scarfers like Lando, Genesect, and Keldeo could be a liability. Really, the key is not to let it set up in the first place. Stealth Rocks hurts it a lot on the first switch-in, and from there play offensively to keep it in check.

 

[KingMawile]

I'm am noob and all, but this set works good in the current game if you get a Dragon dance up

Gyarados
Gyaradosite
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Adament
Dragon dance
Waterfall
Earthquake
Thrash/ Ice fang

 

[Dinosaurman]

The only thing I have for it is Genesect at +1 it can literally set up on my excadrill, then proceed to plow my team into the ground with EQ/Waterfall

Team is Av TTar, lando t, rotom w, excadrill, lucario and gene

It's rare to face but around the 2k mark they've become more frequent and there's just nothing I can do if they're healthy or gene is weakened

 

[Jin White]

The only thing I have for it is Genesect at +1 it can literally set up on my excadrill, then proceed to plow my team into the ground with EQ/Waterfall

Team is Av TTar, lando t, rotom w, excadrill, lucario and gene

It's rare to face but around the 2k mark they've become more frequent and there's just nothing I can do if they're healthy or gene is weakened

Well, yeah, when your entire team is weak to Gyarados it's going to be a problem... Maybe a Focus Sash/Rock Polish Terrakion would fit on there somewhere but there's a lot of overlapping weaknesses as it is. Presumably you want to sweep with Lucario? You could swap out Lando-T for your own bulky Intimidate Gyarados (let Excadrill set rocks) and/or give Rotom a Scarf.

I'm am noob and all, but this set works good in the current game if you get a Dragon dance up

Gyarados
Gyaradosite
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Adament
Dragon dance
Waterfall
Earthquake
Crunch

(Gyarados doesn't learn Crunch)

 

[TheDoctor1]

So I want from thinking this was one of the worst mega pokes b/c dark is a bad typing and he loses moxie and intimidate which i felt were both very nice abilities for gyarados. But now after using him some I figired out why he really is a very good mega, he is one of the few where both forms are useful and the mega is not just a huge improvement, but while at first that might not seem like such a boon when u think about it it really can be. this makes it so he is pretty much two pokemon in one and the forms can deal with different things differently. for example u wouldn't just switch on a fighting type since his mega is weak to fighting but of course u can switch on an electric poke which is a really nice thing.

Now i want to end this by saying its late where i am and as i type this I realize you all might already understand this and this post is a bit rambling. Still while I dont believe he is the best mega he is much better then i originally thought and very viable as a mega slot choice.

(but its really dumb he doesnt get crunch)

 

[Ropeburn]

I really like Mega Gyarados. It's great in this metagame. The X4 weakness going to X2 is a big deal, because gyarados has the bulk to take a volt switch at that range. Mega Lucario is big right now, and Gyarados does a great job resisting the hits in normal form, and evolving when necessary. Just because you have a mega doesn't automatically mean you have to click that "evolve" button. Mega Gyarados is so scary because its normal form is already so threatening. Rotom (Physical Defense) takes about 80-90% from earthquake at just +1. Great late game sweeper that has lots of opportunities to come in. Lots of mindgames, which I think is really cool. Definitely a neat concept, and I'm glad it was created.

Turn 18 specifically is where I got things really rolling.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-69335448

 

[RockStarFish]

I really like Mega Gyarados. It's great in this metagame. The X4 weakness going to X2 is a big deal, because gyarados has the bulk to take a volt switch at that range.Mega Lucario is big right now, and Gyarados does a great job resisting the hits in normal form, and evolving when necessary. Just because you have a mega doesn't automatically mean you have to click that "evolve" button.

The most underrated thing about Gyarados is that if you know how to time your Mega Evolution, it effectively has one weakness (Electric), eight resistances (Bug, Fighting, Steel, Fire, Water, Ghost, Dark, and Ice) and two immunities (Ground and Psychic), which means that nothing short of a STAB Thunderbolt is going to make a sizable dent in it.

 

[Ropeburn]

The most underrated thing about Gyarados is that if you know how to time your Mega Evolution, it effectively has one weakness (Electric), eight resistances (Bug, Fighting, Steel, Fire, Water, Ghost, Dark, and Ice) and two immunities (Ground and Psychic), which means that nothing short of a STAB Thunderbolt is going to make a sizable dent in it.

Exactly. The type changing is huge. Added to the fact that Mega Gyarados has insane bulk, there's not a lot, shy of heavy fighting attacks that can kill it.

 

[Jin White]

I really like Mega Gyarados. It's great in this metagame. The X4 weakness going to X2 is a big deal, because gyarados has the bulk to take a volt switch at that range. Mega Lucario is big right now, and Gyarados does a great job resisting the hits in normal form, and evolving when necessary. Just because you have a mega doesn't automatically mean you have to click that "evolve" button. Mega Gyarados is so scary because its normal form is already so threatening. Rotom (Physical Defense) takes about 80-90% from earthquake at just +1. Great late game sweeper that has lots of opportunities to come in. Lots of mindgames, which I think is really cool. Definitely a neat concept, and I'm glad it was created.

Turn 18 specifically is where I got things really rolling.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-69335448

Mm... That delicious sweep. I'll admit, I panicked a little when you went for the second DD on the Rotom-W. If I were your opponent I would have hit WoW instead of Volt Switch; I think some players are catching on and would do the same.

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 282-332 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Adamant helps a little bit there, so you don't have to risk getting burned; you need +2 speed to get the jump on Scarf Rotom-W regardless.

I used to run DD / Taunt / EQ / Waterfall but Ice Fang over Taunt has served me SO MUCH BETTER, just like it did in your replay (Trevenants and Dragonites, beware!)

Here's my spread:

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

I really, really like Moxie because half the time you want to keep his Water/Flying typing and with that power/coverage it's really not hard to get one or multiple kills before going Mega. Intimidate helps with the initial set up, sure, but setting up is easy enough and one Moxie boost can be a game-changer. EVd to outrun Greninja after one DD.

 

[Ropeburn]

Mm... That delicious sweep. I'll admit, I panicked a little when you went for the second DD on the Rotom-W. If I were your opponent I would have hit WoW instead of Volt Switch; I think some players are catching on and would do the same.

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 282-332 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Adamant helps a little bit there, so you don't have to risk getting burned; you need +2 speed to get the jump on Scarf Rotom-W regardless.

I used to run DD / Taunt / EQ / Waterfall but Ice Fang over Taunt has served me SO MUCH BETTER, just like it did in your replay (Trevenants and Dragonites, beware!)

Here's my spread:

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

I really, really like Moxie because half the time you want to keep his Water/Flying typing and with that power/coverage it's really not hard to get one or multiple kills before going Mega. Intimidate helps with the initial set up, sure, but setting up is easy enough and one Moxie boost can be a game-changer. EVd to outrun Greninja after one DD.

Well, my first thought when facing gyarados is to just volt switch out, as that's usually enough to kill it. After all, Lum Berry is a pretty common item on Gyarados. Mega Gyarados' greatest potential comes from the pure unpredictability. Also, I was pretty sure Ice Fang wouldn't 2HKO Trevenant, so I was forced into the DD.

 

[Selflessly]

What's the ev spread most of you are running on your gyarados. This 40 hp, 216 speed one looks interesting that I've been seeing recently but what exactly does it outspeed esp considering its Adamant.

 

[Ropeburn]

What's the ev spread most of you are running on your gyarados. This 40 hp, 216 speed one looks interesting that I've been seeing recently but what exactly does it outspeed esp considering its Adamant.

Greninja after one DD.

 

[Soren1318]

Is there a viable alternative to leftovers if I'm running a bulky dancer gyarados? (w/o mega obv) I don't know if Sitrus berry would suffice since it's a one time use and I want him to be sustainable : / . Lum berry was another idea but I have chansey for removing status effects, meh.

EDIT: Going with Lum Berry for now, its still pretty useful as many mons will aim for neutralizing gyara with status effects and i get a free dance for a turn where i'd have to normally withdraw.

 

[Kakimori]

I'd be interested to hear from people who've used the Mega whether they think Intimidate or Moxie is better and why.

It seems like Intimidate would let you switch in multiple times throughout the match, then go for a late sweep, while Moxie just grants higher offensive potential?

 

[ImperialTheme]

I'm tentatively considering a Cell Battery set with Return to punish Rotom-W and others that try to get off a Volt Switch after my first Dragon Dance. Thoughts?

Gyarados@Cell Battery
Moxie
52HP/252At/204Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Return

Advantages: If Rotom-W or another electric type switches in while I Dragon Dance, then tries to Volt Switch, I get an extra attack boost and can 2HKO with Return, getting a Moxie boost at which point I have +3 attack and enough speed to get past neutral-nature Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Choice Scarf Heracross and nearly every unboosted pokemon in the game.

Disadvantages: Crippled by Will-o-Wisp, and no form of recovery, which is a pain when you're weak to stealth rock. Would probably try it on a team with a cleric and a wish-passer.

Thoughts? I really hate Rotom-W and I would love to humiliate a few of them.

 

[TrippingRocks]

I'm tentatively considering a Cell Battery set with Return to punish Rotom-W and others that try to get off a Volt Switch after my first Dragon Dance. Thoughts?

Gyarados@Cell Battery
Moxie
52HP/252At/204Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Return

Advantages: If Rotom-W or another electric type switches in while I Dragon Dance, then tries to Volt Switch, I get an extra attack boost and can 2HKO with Return, getting a Moxie boost at which point I have +3 attack and enough speed to get past neutral-nature Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Choice Scarf Heracross and nearly every unboosted pokemon in the game.

Disadvantages: Crippled by Will-o-Wisp, and no form of recovery, which is a pain when you're weak to stealth rock. Would probably try it on a team with a cleric and a wish-passer.

Thoughts? I really hate Rotom-W and I would love to humiliate a few of them.

Not a good idea.

4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

A Rotom-W with barely any Sp.Atk investment has a good chance of one-shotting Gyarados and it's a guaranteed OHKO with stealth rocks up.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

I'm tentatively considering a Cell Battery set with Return to punish Rotom-W and others that try to get off a Volt Switch after my first Dragon Dance. Thoughts?

Gyarados@Cell Battery
Moxie
52HP/252At/204Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Return

Advantages: If Rotom-W or another electric type switches in while I Dragon Dance, then tries to Volt Switch, I get an extra attack boost and can 2HKO with Return, getting a Moxie boost at which point I have +3 attack and enough speed to get past neutral-nature Choice Scarf Rotom-W, Choice Scarf Heracross and nearly every unboosted pokemon in the game.

Disadvantages: Crippled by Will-o-Wisp, and no form of recovery, which is a pain when you're weak to stealth rock. Would probably try it on a team with a cleric and a wish-passer.

Thoughts? I really hate Rotom-W and I would love to humiliate a few of them.

Cell Battery is a pretty poor choice for an item. This set doesn't do much for Gyarados and if you dislike Rotom-W so much you're better off using Gyaradosite to wreck with Mold Breaker Earthquakes. I do, however, enjoy the use of Return on your set. I've been using this set to really great success:

move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Return
ability: Intimidate
item: Leftovers
evs: 88 HP / 248 Atk / 4 Def / 168 Spe
nature: Jolly</p>

This Gyarados is bulky enough to switch into physical attackers that don't carry a super-effective move and most fighting types in general. From there, you usually Dragon Tail their switch to stack up Stealth Rock damage. I love phazing stuff early and mid-game then when the opportunity is right, you can Dragon Dance and sweep. This set also has the benefit of being able to Dragon Dance without being Phazed by Whirlwind or Roar which is pretty awesome. Waterfall and Return provide the best coverage and Return is probably the best move to hit Rotom-W. It's great against other Gyarados that try to set up on you as well. Thoughts?