In-Game Tier List Discussion

[WaterBomb]

I want to make a case for dropping Lillipup to mid tier. Yeah he's decent for being gotten so early, but his offensive capabilities simply do not keep up. He has a surprisingly shallow movepool as far as in-game moves go (until you have access to the fangs with Heart Scales), so his utility is pretty much limited to Intimidate (if he has it) and sponging a bit with his respectable defenses. By the time you reach the later gyms he is being beaten 1 on 1, and takes too long to set up to be much threat. I think he definitely deserves to be in the higher part of the middle tier, but he's not useful enough throughout to be at the top.

 

[Showsni]

I want to make a case for dropping Lillipup to mid tier. Yeah he's decent for being gotten so early, but his offensive capabilities simply do not keep up. He has a surprisingly shallow movepool as far as in-game moves go (until you have access to the fangs with Heart Scales), so his utility is pretty much limited to Intimidate (if he has it) and sponging a bit with his respectable defenses. By the time you reach the later gyms he is being beaten 1 on 1, and takes too long to set up to be much threat. I think he definitely deserves to be in the higher part of the middle tier, but he's not useful enough throughout to be at the top.

Did you remember to buy the Return TM?

 

[AriadosPerson]

It's Amazing. Also, a Krokorok of similar level can OHKO Elesa's Emolga with an unboosted Crunch so...

Sandile evolves at Lv. 29. Four levels higher is not similar level.

 

[MasterLucario]

I want to make a case for dropping Lillipup to mid tier. Yeah he's decent for being gotten so early, but his offensive capabilities simply do not keep up. He has a surprisingly shallow movepool as far as in-game moves go (until you have access to the fangs with Heart Scales), so his utility is pretty much limited to Intimidate (if he has it) and sponging a bit with his respectable defenses. By the time you reach the later gyms he is being beaten 1 on 1, and takes too long to set up to be much threat. I think he definitely deserves to be in the higher part of the middle tier, but he's not useful enough throughout to be at the top.

Stoutland with his defenses can resist very well the attacks of his opponents and proceed on beating them even if it takes more time near the end of the game.
You shouldnt have problems with his Normal attacks until the Chargestone Cave due to how rare are Rock, Steel and Ghost Pokemon are at the start of the game. You learn Crunch before you enter the cave, and after that you have the move relearner in Mistralton City, so his movepool it's not a problem.
STAB Retaliate for revenge killing and Return are good options for his STAB attack.
His hability to resist hits is useful specially in the E4 because you can use him as shield while you use your Revives in your fainted Pokemon.

 

[Gneiss is nice]

I want to make a case for dropping Lillipup to mid tier. Yeah he's decent for being gotten so early, but his offensive capabilities simply do not keep up. He has a surprisingly shallow movepool as far as in-game moves go (until you have access to the fangs with Heart Scales), so his utility is pretty much limited to Intimidate (if he has it) and sponging a bit with his respectable defenses. By the time you reach the later gyms he is being beaten 1 on 1, and takes too long to set up to be much threat. I think he definitely deserves to be in the higher part of the middle tier, but he's not useful enough throughout to be at the top.

Still, he gets Take Down pretty early, and his STAB Take Down hits surprisingly hard, while the recoil is easily healable with potions (always stock on your healing items).

But he does decrease in usefulness later in the game. And for me, I hate filling up a spot on my team with a monotype Normal. I feel like I want to use those spots for a bigger variety of types and Normal isn't one I want (only exception to that was Porygon-Z in one of my playthroughs of Platinum).

 

[gabezj]

My MVP has been a ferrothorn with a rugged helmet, power whip, bulldoze, Iron Head and rest. so much of the game is against pokemon with contact attacks who ferrothorn can take hits from no prob and then deal back 25% each time in addition to the damage from his powerful attacks. His attacking stats are good, and STAB power whip is great and damages everything well and matches with bulldoze and Iron head for great coverage. also, rest practicably guarantees to let him beat almost all physical attackers as he can heal up from the damage he takes and still kill pokes while he's asleep. best grass type in the game hands down.

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Throh is upper tier mainly because he's available from the very start of the game (even before the first gym), when 100 base attack is going to be higher than anything you see for a very long time.)

... What. Is Pinwheel Forest suddenly before Striaton? I believe you mean second gym, good sir.

 

[General Spoon]

I would like to propose moving Emolga to high tier. After using it ingame, it surpassed all expectations I had for it. It has several things going in its favor.

For starters, he comes as soon as you get to Nimbassa City, appearing on the routes just outside it. And you can later "upgrade" to the trade Emolga on route 7 for one with increased EXP gain naturally, and massive EXP gain with the Lucky Egg.

Emolga gets a powerful 110 Base Power STAB move in Acrobatics as soon as it hits level 30. It also gets powerful Electric STAB moves. He doesn't really care what he runs so long as he gets his powerful STABS, so he can run a support move like Light Screen, which he learns naturally. Emolga is also pretty fast.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

I would like to propose moving Emolga to high tier. After using it ingame, it surpassed all expectations I had for it. It has several things going in its favor.

For starters, he comes as soon as you get to Nimbassa City, appearing on the routes just outside it. And you can later "upgrade" to the trade Emolga on route 7 for one with increased EXP gain naturally, and massive EXP gain with the Lucky Egg.

Emolga gets a powerful 110 Base Power STAB move in Acrobatics as soon as it hits level 30. It also gets powerful Electric STAB moves. He doesn't really care what he runs so long as he gets his powerful STABS, so he can run a support move like Light Screen, which he learns naturally. Emolga is also pretty fast.

Emolga's stats just aren't enough to justify using him past the mid twenties, which is very shortly after you get him. His defenses are just bad from the moment you get him, and his attack stats are mediocre even by the standards of the level that you'll catch him at. 75 base attack is where a lot of Pokemon start, but it's where Emolga ends, meaning that he'll struggle to output any meaningful damage late-game, which he desperately needs to due to his awful defenses. Late game his fragility combined with his inability to one-shot most things will be the end of him. To be honest, I feel like giving him mid tier is pretty generous; I'd definitely say he's on the lower end of mid.

 

[General Spoon]

Emolga's stats just aren't enough to justify using him past the mid twenties, which is very shortly after you get him. His defenses are just bad from the moment you get him, and his attack stats are mediocre even by the standards of the level that you'll catch him at. 75 base attack is where a lot of Pokemon start, but it's where Emolga ends, meaning that he'll struggle to output any meaningful damage late-game, which he desperately needs to due to his awful defenses. Late game his fragility combined with his inability to one-shot most things will be the end of him. To be honest, I feel like giving him mid tier is pretty generous; I'd definitely say he's on the lower end of mid.

The trade Emolga always has a Lax nature. It also always has these IVs:
HP/Atk/Def/Sp. Atk/Sp. Def/Spd
20/20/31/20/20/20

For reference, he is bulky enough to take a Stone Edge from Marshal's Throh and 2HKO it with Acrobatics. He makes the cut lategame.

 

[0verl0rd14]

Hey guys, just a bit of info (although it probably won't change much). It IS possible to slightly widen Vanilluxe's shallow movepool. If you are patient, then you can teach it weather ball via move tutor once it is fully evolved. Combine that with rain dance and a damp rock, you can have a BP 100 water type move for 8 turns with the added bonus of weakening fire type moves.

However, this combination comes quite late in-game, meaning it might not make that much difference on it's tiering. But since it has decent (not amazing) stats, doesn't come that late in game, and has received generally positive reviews from those who played with it, I'm pushing for upper mid.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

... What. Is Pinwheel Forest suddenly before Striaton? I believe you mean second gym, good sir.

I believe he means trading a surfer over to your game to prematurely access Route 17/18, where wild Throh/Sawk can be found at LV 30+.

But trading can only be used to evolve Gurrdurr, Boldore, Shelmet and Karrablast anyway in this topic...

 

[Thund91]

So why exactly is Munna low tier? I was lucky enough to catch a Musharna lvl 11 right after the first gym, and it basically one to two shotted EVERYTHING that didn't resist Psybeam. Later on you can teach it Shadow Ball + Charge Beam, and it starts off with Hypnosis. And it's not like its low Speed is such a big deal when its got awesome defenses.

Just wondering. <__<

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Because Moon Stone comes only in Pinwheel, Munna is not strong enough to kill things with Pinwheel, and shaking grass in Dream Yard has a way higher chance of Audino...?

Yeah.
Plus, Sigilyph.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Munna doesn't appear in shaking grass, and unless you want Calm Mind / Psychic (which you probably will...), you can evolve her right after learning Hypnosis at lv19.

Not that I'm advocating for her to be put a tier above; I've used one until Castelia City and I wonder how the hell you get past the Desert with her, as her only move is... Psybeam. And then, of course, there's Sigilyph just waiting to be caught and commence the massacre.

 

[Rakan]

I haven't used Emolga, but oh my goodness Elesa owned me with her dumb flying squirrels... And every time I faced a trainer near the beginning of the game I lost nearly half my team just trying to take it down after it used Double Team multiple times >.>

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Munna doesn't appear in shaking grass, and unless you want Calm Mind / Psychic (which you probably will...), you can evolve her right after learning Hypnosis at lv19.

Not that I'm advocating for her to be put a tier above; I've used one until Castelia City and I wonder how the hell you get past the Desert with her, as her only move is... Psybeam. And then, of course, there's Sigilyph just waiting to be caught and commence the massacre.

1. I meant Musharna isn't found commonly in shaking grass, not Munna. >_>

2. Exactly why Munna seems to be relatively worthless after the 3rd gym, with Scraggy and Sandile immune to Psybeam and Sigilyph being there too. Only advantage is that Munna isn't weak to Volt Switch...

 

[VaporeonIce]

Still, he gets Take Down pretty early, and his STAB Take Down hits surprisingly hard, while the recoil is easily healable with potions (always stock on your healing items).

But he does decrease in usefulness later in the game. And for me, I hate filling up a spot on my team with a monotype Normal. I feel like I want to use those spots for a bigger variety of types and Normal isn't one I want (only exception to that was Porygon-Z in one of my playthroughs of Platinum).

I've been using Dig along with Crunch, Strength, and Work Up (I'll replace Strength once I get return), and Stoutland's been fairly respectable. STAB Return will hit fairly hard, Stoutland's got good bulk and respectable speed, and hitting all of the types that resist Normal super-effectively is pretty great (although you'll obviously miss super-effective hits on stuff like Ferrothorn). It's not hugely powerful, but it does hit Electric, Rock, Steel, Ghost, and Psychic types super-effectively, and it's not as dead-weight as everyone thinks it is late-game. Though I admit I probably wouldn't be using the one I am if it weren't shiny and Adamant.

 

[Camara]

Also Stoutland can have Thunder Wave to help the team. I used one until Chargestone Cave where there were pokémon I wanted to join my team. But Stoutland was still good there. Intimidate is essential, with it it becomes a good all around pokémon. I think he would work well in the league because of its balancedness and Crunch for Ghost and Psychic.

 

[WaterBomb]

Eh, Stoutland was surprisingly ineffective in the E4 for me, even with Return. His speed is decent but not that great, and his attack isn't impressive enough to OHKO consistently, which is a big disadvantage in the latter parts of the game and postgame when opponents can more easily OHKO you. Stoutland functions fairly well as a T-Wave and in-game wall to sponge hits while you revive pokes, but I found him quite lacking in the offense department. It's this lack of domination that made me suggest he be moved to the middle tier. He's fairly useful, but I think the top tier should be reserved for pokes who are far MORE useful and dominating.

 

[AriadosPerson]

Personally, I was able to make Stoutland last up until Opelucid (though I suspect I may have been overlevelled(somehow)), but after that I really just gave up on it. It's not strong enough to even 3HKO the Gym's Fraxures, and it lacks the bulk to withstand multiple hits. Yeah, Take Down may one-shot everything at Lv. 18, but fast forward twenty levels and your STAB move is now just slightly stronger.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Personally, I was able to make Stoutland last up until Opelucid (though I suspect I may have been overlevelled(somehow)), but after that I really just gave up on it. It's not strong enough to even 3HKO the Gym's Fraxures, and it lacks the bulk to withstand multiple hits. Yeah, Take Down may one-shot everything at Lv. 18, but fast forward twenty levels and your STAB move is now just slightly stronger.

I had the same experience with overleveling; I didn't try to, but my entire team was around level 46 by the time I got to the Opelucid gym. I did keep switching around the Lucky Egg, and I didn't run from any battles, so while I wasn't intentionally grinding, I think I just got stuck in Chargestone Cave for longer than I should have, and everything got to a way higher level than it should have been.

I have to say that I find Reuniclus totally awesome, because of one thing that really sets it apart: Charm. With Charm, Psychic, Recover, and Shadow Ball, it's able to easily take apart most of those obnoxiously powerful physical sweepers (Haxorus was a joke when I repeatedly Charmed it to -4 while it Dragon Danced), and Fighting-types besides Scrafty just won't hit hard enough for me to care. It's stopped cold by Dark and Steel types (though it can still cut down their Attack stat), so it's definitely best used along a Fighting-type. I strongly prefer this set over a set with Focus Blast, though, which is insanely unreliable and has crappy PP (not to mention I haven't even gone to get the TM yet).

 

[Banryu]

no one has brought them up and gave a decent argument as to where they should be placed a why. you can start.

I've only just beaten the fourth gym. I'm hardly in a position to do so, LOL. However I do plan to use Escavalier, and I'll definitely report my findings once I've had him for a good while.

Also, why is Sigilyph considered so good?

 

[AriadosPerson]

Also, why is Sigilyph considered so good?

Starts with Psybeam. Gets Air Cutter one level afterward. Strong and fast throughout the whole game.

Use it.

 

[kay-tay]

ok >_>

Elgyem comes late, like, extremely late. Compare to Sigilyph, Solosis or Goth Loli, who comes before the 4th gym. This guy comes before the 6th. Solosis has a higher SpA, and by the time you get Elgyem, its likely to be Duosion, who has a trollish 115 SpA.

Now for Goth Loli. While lacking a bit in physical bulk, goth loli has a slightly better special bulk. Like Solosis, it should've evolved into Gothorita by Elgyem, and despite a lower SpA, sports higher bulk and speed.

I'm not even mentioning Sigilyph.

I've used Elgyem and I can tell you that this is not the case at all. Elgyem is good by itself but when it evolves (pretty much the same as Gothorita and Duosion evolves) It becomes really useful.

Elgyem / Beheeyem has a better movepool than all three of those pokemon combined. It gets Calm Mind by level up, neither of which Sigilyph, the Gothorita line, nor the Solosis line acquire. And considering you get Calm Mind TM after you beat the game, this is a big advantage. Thunderbolt is another advantage, which the other three can only dream of having in it's movepool. It even gets Simple Beam by level.

Sigilyph has too many weaknesses in my opinion. It can't go very far without encountering a Super Effective move from my experience. (I've tried all psychic types) It's still good, because it's somewhat fast and can hit decently. But you trade speed for a lot of power, which may be preferable to some. Elgyem should stay where it is, Munna should go up also (it can get Clam Mind by level up too) and Solosis should go down. Sigilyph needs to go down a little too. Gothita is good but so many things are just...better. In terms of Psychic types I'm thinking:

Sigilyph = Elgyem = Munna > Solosis > Gothita > Woobat