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Latios (BW2 Revamp) (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Nova, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Nova

    Nova Palisades
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    Getting the sets up first

    Latios
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    • Excellent special attack stat
    • Great base speed allows Latios to outspeed base 108s such as Terrakion and Keldeo
    • Movepool provides great coverage
    • Underestimated special defense stat
    • Prone to being Pursuit trapped
    • Easy to take out with something faster or a choice scarf pokemon
    • Can be taken out by priority attacks due to low defense stat

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock / Thunder
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Trick / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Severely dents almost anything
    • Draco Meteor is a very powerful STAB attack that can be fired off at will
    • Psyshock deals with special walls, namely Blissey
    • Thunder handles bulky Water types and is especially useful with the prevalence of Rain teams
    • Surf for coverage against Heatran
    • Trick cripples walls and setup sweepers
    • Hidden Power Fire handles Scizor and Ferrothorn but forces Latios to run 30 Speed IVs

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Using in rain with Politoed boosts Surf and allows user to use Thunder in the last slot
    • Grass Knot can be used in the last slot to 2HKO Tyranitar after Stealth Rock
    • Hazard Support
    • Prone to being Pursuit trapped if locked into the wrong move


    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Trick
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Scarf allows Latios to serve as a premiere revenge killer
    • Outspeeds common Scarfers such as Salamence, Jirachi, Keldeo, and Terrakion
    • Trick cripples walls and setup sweepers

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Rain support from Politoed boosts Surf
    • Still prone to being Pursuit trapped
    • Beaten by priority
    • Struggles with Steel types
    • Terrakion and Infernape are good partners that can eliminate Steel types and take advantage of having the opponent's Scarfer removed
    • Magnezone is also a good partner that can trap and eliminate Steels


    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Psyshock / Thunder
    move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Life Orb allows Latios to switch moves and still pack a punch
    • Great cleaner late game
    • Roost heals off Life Orb recoil as well as residual damage from weather, status, and entry hazards

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Expert Belt can be used to bluff a Choice set and surprise unexpecting Scizors with HP Fire
    • Rain support from Politoed boosts Surf and allows for the use of Thunder
    • Still prone to being Pursuit trapped
    • Beaten by priority
    • Struggles with Steel types
    • Magnezone is also a good partner that can trap and eliminate Steels

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Roost / Psyshock
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Set up and sweep
    • CM boosts Special Defense which makes it tough for Pokemon that normally beat Latios such as Tornadus-T, Alakazam, and Starmie
    • Attacks are very powerful after a boost especially coupled with Life Orb
    • Can beat Tyranitar if enough CM boosts are accumulated
    • Roost can help Latios set up more CMs

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Rain support from Politoed boosts Surf
    • Beaten by priority
    • Struggles with Steel types
    • Magnezone is also a good partner that can trap and eliminate Steels

    [SET]
    name: Dual Screens
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Memento
    move 4: Draco Meteor
    item: Light Clay
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Support role can surprise opponent expecting the typical offensive set
    • Combination of Dual Screens and Memento easily allows for a sweeper to come in and set up after Latios faints
    • Draco Meteor to provide Latios with a powerful attacking option and he won't be staying in long anyways so the SpA drop doesn't really matter
    • Light Clay to maximize the length of Reflect and Light Screen

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Can be checked by Taunt users
    • Partners include Pokemon that can set up and sweep such as Cloyster, Dragonite, Terrakion, Lucario, etc.



    [Other Options]

    • Substitute allows Latios to dodge status and ease prediction
    • Hidden Power Fighting to hit Tyranitar, Heatran, and Ferrothorn
    • Rain Dance+Water Gem OHKO's Tyranitar after Stealth Rock

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Tyranitar
    • Scizor
    • Tornadus-T
    • Alakazam
    • Starmie
    • Jirachi
    • Mamoswine
    • Choice Scarf Pokemon
  2. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Mention Grass Knot somewhere in your analysis, preferrably OO.With Choice Specs, you will be able to 2hko Tyranitar after Stealth Rock.
  3. Jukain

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    I might give you some more thorough advice later but for starters:

    • SAtk -> SpA
    • SDef -> SpD
    • Hidden Power [Fire] -> Hidden Power Fire
    • order is item -> nature -> evs

    Just some quick format fixes.
  4. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
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    On the Choice Specs set, you should put Trick instead of Thunderbolt as the primary slash. Honestly, Thunderbolt sucks on Latios. It doesn't hit anything that likes to switch into Latios, and stuff like Jellicent and Gastrodon really hate Psyshock and Draco Meteor anyway. Trick is very useful for Latios since you can cripple things like Blissey, Ferrothorn, etc. all in one move. Latios rarely ever needs the extra coverage other than Draco Meteor/Surf/Psyshock from my experience, so it's a nice thing to have. HP Fire can be useful at times I guess.

    just my 2 cents.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Maybe a mention of the Rain Dance + Water Gem Latios in OO, the only set that can OHKO Tyranitar after SR?
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    I never really liked Thunderbolt on my Latios, and I would prefer Trick getting a mention somewhere, since its nice vs some of the more offensive teams (where I prefer the freedom if switching attacks), and it still retains its usages vs defensive teams (since you can use Trick to cripple something). Basically, Id rank it as HP Fire / Trick / Thunderbolt but other people might have different views or something.

    Slash HP Fire with either Surf or Psyshock IMO since its neat for Ferrothorn.
    AC Expert Belt for bluffing Scarf or something and with HP Fire you often catch those Scizor dumb enoug to U-Turn.

    Don't like CM Latios as I prefer Latias but whatever, looks fine, as does Scarf. Just a quick nitpick however on the CM set:

    Pretty much every single stall team has Blissey / Chansey both of which just Toxic Latios and laugh as they stall it out. Heck, id potentially prefer Latias if I wanted to try and win vs Stall using a CM set.
  7. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    With rain as common as it is, I'd prefer to see Thunder as a slash on both the Specs and Life Orb sets, probably over Psyshock as a slash.
  8. yee

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    Just pointing that if you REALLY want to beat specially defensive Tyranitar (and I hope there's not many of those left), the most sensible move is Grass Knot to achieve a 2HKO after SR, not Rain Dance + Water Gem. Rain Dance alone has some merit but Water Gem is wasting every other boosted attack you could've had. Here's the facts-

    -Life Orb Grass knot will usually kill max 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful TTar after SR, 2 slightly below average rolls will get the job done (if it gets the 9th lowest possibility out of 16 both times it does it). Specs Latios obviously doesn't have many problems.

    -On a ridiculous 0 HP / 252 SpD CB Tar Life Orb Surf already gets the job done almost every time (12th lowest roll both times does it). 252 HP / 0 SpD Tar is gone every time.

    -Scarf Tar can stomp you on the switch if you try to Rain Dance and then Water Gem Surf, and you should be way way way more worried about this set than Specially Defensive Tar. If you want to beat this still Life Orb HP Fighting has a 6/16 chance to OHKO after SR and Specs guarantees it. That is your only option, not Rain Dance + Water Gem. If you want to beat it without HP Fighting you better have Dugtrio or something like Terrakion / Garchomp to set up on the Pursuit.

    Not only does Grass Knot trip Specially Defensive Tar, which again you should not be worrying much about, it also lets you beat Jellicent, Hippowdon more easily and OHKO Donphan once Sturdy is gone (I don't know why people are using Donphan so much but they are). HP Fighting does OK vs natt, but Specs can't even 2HKO after SR if it's max Special Defense and if it's lighter, you just locked yourself into HP Fighting against a Rain team which is just asking for trouble with or without Torn-T. If you use HP Fighting don't expect to hit anything but ScarfTar with it.
  9. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Psyshock is a little overrated TBH. Yeah, it is ok but I would slash Dragon Pulse with it on the Specs set. Thunder WTF?!?! Thunder just.. no. Thunderbolt is better than Thunder if you want to use an Electric move but it doesn't help Latios any. You want Dragon Pulse for late game sweeping.

    Also, I strongly suggest listing the cons of Hidden Power Fire. Losing the speed tie to Latias, other Latios, and Gengar is pretty significant and HP Fire isn't needed to Beat Scizor. Yes, it helps with Ferrothorn but you have teammates for that.

    Also, it might be useful to list calculations on Tyranitar for both Life Orb and Choice Specs. Knowing the damage output on a Tyranitar that switches in and very useful to determine its spread and if it is safe to go for the kill or switch out so you don't get killed by Pursuit or a faster Scarfed Crunch.
  10. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

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    Draco meteor seems better than pulse on the dual screen set. Should be at least slashed in I think.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I agree with Deluks917; Draco Meteor > Dragon PUlse. THis Latios isn't meant to stick around anyways; set up screens and Memento out. Draco Meteors greater damage output is much more appreciated
  12. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
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    Excuse me, but I don't think these are very good checks. Also, I wouldn't list ScarfKeldeo / ScarfThundurus-T as Latios checks.

    Add Grass Knot to OO.
  13. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    @The above - Although those things in C&C don't counter it they do check it very well, since they can outspeed and revenge kill it. Also, it would be very odd to have a check & counters section that literally has 3 Pokemon.
  14. dice

    dice practitioner of the city
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    • Tyranitar
    • Scizor
    • Jirachi
    • Ferrothorn
    • Chansey
    • Blissey
    • Heatran
    • Specially Defensive Skarmory
    • here
    • and
    • below
    • mention
    • checks
  15. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    I actually think HP Fire should be slashed over Draco Meteor on the Screens set. 0 SAtk Draco Meteor doesn't even scratch any of the things that switch into him, while HP Fire scores an OHKO on CB Scizor and does a good amount of damage to Ferrothorn.

    And Dragon Pulse definitely deserves a slash on the Specs set instead of Thunder. It's a much more conservative STAB than Draco, and is very useful in situations where you want to spam a consistently powerful move without needing to switch out. In my experiences, it's even better than Psyshock as a secondary STAB.
  16. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold magda is my spirit animal
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    Dragon Gem is a solid second option on the Dual Screens set, probably you should mention this item on this set, since you can hit very strong at the same time that this set work very well like support with screens and memento.
  17. dice

    dice practitioner of the city
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    I dislike Dragon Gem since you don't get 8 turn screens which is the basic point of using screens. What certain kills does it grant that make up for 3 less turns of screens?
  18. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    o.k. i wanted to comment on CM Latios.

    Firstly, can't we AC (if not slash) 252 Hp / 252 Spe / 4 SAtk . I know that this is all too similar to Latias' spread but it has merits over Latias.

    1. Latias needs +4, in addition to using a support coverage move in the last move slot (like refresh / substitute) so that it can get as many boosts as possible. Without +4, solo Dragon STAB is usualy quite weak when hitting resistances (which basically means every steel type) and at +2 its still not hitting stuff like TTar that hard.

    With Latios, it can afford to use a coverage move alongside CM + Roost (usually surf). This is because Latios doesn't need +4, it just needs +2(and pushing +3) to actually threaten a wide range of OU with its two coverage moves. With its lack of need to get more than +2, it can afford to run coverage moves since, unlike Latias, it doesn't need to live to the set up to +4. Also, those extra turns its not CM'ing to +4 (like Latias) its threatening and denting the opposition.

    2. The way the work imo are distinct differences. When I was testing CM Latios, it was more of an offensive CM'er, nabbing a surprise +1 on many forced switches that Latias cannot force itself. It doesn't need +4, it just needs to set up to +2 before the opponent knows what hit them, and usually nabbing +1 is super easy due to the underuse of that set in general. The way Latias works is different; Latios will set up +2 and immidetely begin a sweep whereas Latias will Substitute / Roost / CM until it can get around +4. Latios doesn't need that extra set up, giving it more time to actually abuse its brute force. Its more fast-pace for offensive teams.


    I want to ellaborate further on the ev spread. Latios' base special attack is enough to set it apart from Latias, and by running max hp it has a good chance of living small physical hits like Stone Edge / X-Scissor from Terrakion, it takes Keldeo's Secret Sword so much better (and HP Ice, most people won't care to attack it since its usually frail). Furthermore, Latios has the option to run LO too and Latias can't so you don't need much SAtk investment.

    To be fair, most of my testing of this set was when I used a troll team (my definition of troll involves Scarf'ed Dragonite for RP Gene on PO alongside SRExplosion Landorus-I), so take my expriences with this set for what they are worth. GL getting QC!
  19. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Ok, maybe it will be rejected but im having a great success with dragon dance latios.
    Here is the set i use:
    Latios (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Dragon Dance

    At least, if you dont want to put the entire set give it a mention somewhere.
  20. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    I was honestly testing Dragon Dance, and it sucked. What was amazing, however, was Earthquake. Earthquake on Life Orb Latios is fucking amazing, Heatran, Jirachi, rain Magnezone, etc. it was legitimately amazing. I used Draco Meteor, Psyshock, Hidden Power Fire, and Earthquake @ Life Orb. Incredible.
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Actually EQ seems as a good option for the LO set! Here are the most notable calcs:

    • EQ vs 252 HP Jirachi: 43.06 - 50.74%
    • EQ vs 252 HP Ttar: 39.85 - 47.02%
    • EQ vs 252 HP Heatran: 85.19 - 101.29%
    Latios needs 24 Atk EVs to OHKO 252 HP Heatran after SR. Seems good enough for AC on the LO set.

    EDIT: A Naive nature was used btw.
  22. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    I approve of Earthquake.
  23. PK Gaming

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    I don't care how common rain is, Thunder should not be slashed on any of Latios' sets. Thunder should only be slashed on rain sweepers (Latios is a general sweeper) or Pokemon who intrinsically use Thunder like Jirachi.

    The Life Orb set should be placed over the Choice Scarf set imo. The LO set is more common and more potent in OU. The Scarf set should really only be selectively used on teams that really need it.
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    IMO the specs set should look like this:

    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire
    Trick

    I think trick should be the only option in that last slot. This is because Trick is one of the main reasons to use specs on latios, rather than LO (a generally superior item). A ~15% power boost alone does not make up for having to use the wrong move half the time. I also moved surf above psyshock, because it's far more important. Surf offers good coverage, while Psyshock hits Blissey, mainly. Against chansey it doesn't do close to enough.

    EQ sounds really awesome, I must say. I'm going to run a few more calcs to see what it can do, and to see whether a different spread/nature is in order.

    edit: and yeah LO >>> Choice Scarf.

    edit2: for LO as well, move Surf up one, slash Psyshock with HP Fire.
  25. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    I agree that Trick should be mandatory on all the choice sets, it's just too good to pass up, and there are some situations where you want to de-choice your Latios anyway.

    Also about the order, from December stats:
    | Items | | Choice Scarf 28.616% | | Choice Specs 26.225% | | Life Orb 18.998% |Scarf is the most used, narrowly followed by Specs and then LO. For what its worth on the ladder is see scarf all the time and specs rarely. I do agree that scarf is probably the worst of the three sets though, so maybe it should be third anyway.

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