Latios (BW2 Revamp)


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<p>When thinking about offensive behemoths, Latios is one of the first Pokemon that comes to mind. Stellar Special Attack, great Speed, and good coverage are the most important traits that make Latios such a powerful force in OU. Latios can put these tools to use by destroying the opposition with powerful attacks, revenge killing dangerous threats, such as Keldeo and Terrakion, and acting as a good offensive pivot thanks to his handy resistances and immunities, as well as underestimated special bulk. However, Latios's vulnerability to Pursuit and therefore to the prominent Scizor and Tyranitar is his biggest flaw and usually prevents him from freely using his powerful Dragon moves from the get-go. Latios is also somewhat prone to faster physical attackers, as well as priority, which hit him on his weaker physical side.</p>

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Trick / Hidden Power Fire
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


<p>This set transforms Latios into a powerful nuke capable of destroying almost everything with just Draco Meteor, as every other move in the set is there to help Latios spam it. To give you an example of Draco Meteor's power, it cleanly 2HKOs 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock. Less specially bulky Steel-types such as Skarmory and Forretress don't even stand a chance of surviving two Draco Meteors. Surf takes down any Steel-type in OU except for Ferrothorn and Jirachi, 2HKOes any Tyranitar bar the specially defensive variant, and gets pseudo-STAB in rain, making it a very safe move to use when Steel-types are healthy. Psyshock gets STAB and gives Latios a way to get past Blissey and Chansey, easily 2HKOing the first while having a decent chance (30.47%) to 2HKO the latter after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage. It also allows Latios to OHKO Keldeo regardless of how many Calm Mind boosts it has accumulated. In the last slot, Trick cripples any defensive answer to Latios bar Tyranitar and makes setup sweepers such as Jirachi and Celebi much easier to handle. Trick is very useful against balanced and defensive teams, which have solid defensive cores that are difficult to break through, and by crippling one of their defensive Pokemon you have basically weakened their whole defensive core. Hidden Power Fire is the only move that can break past Ferrothorn and 2HKOes specially defensive Jirachi after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, but lowers Latios's Speed by one point, resulting in Latios getting outspeed by opposing Latios, Latias, and Gengar, all very popular Pokemon in OU.</p>


<p>To get a taste of Latios's power, take a look at the damage calculations below:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Draco Meteor vs. 248/0 Scizor: 59.47 - 69.97%, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock</li>
<li>Draco Meteor vs. 0/0 HP Heatran: 50.15 - 59.44%</li>
<li>Draco Meteor vs. 180/0 HP Tyranitar in sand: 59.32 - 69.94%, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock</li>
<li>Surf vs. 252/252+ Tyranitar in sand: 40.84 - 48.26%, 10.94% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock</li>
<li>Surf vs. 248/252+ Heatran: 55.58 - 65.97%, guaranteed 2HKO</li>
<li>Psyshock vs. 4/252 Blissey: 59.5 - 70.09%</li>
<li>Psyshock vs. 252/252+ Chansey: 37.07 - 43.6%</li>
<li>Hidden Power Fire vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 56.93 - 67.32%, guaranteed 2HKO</li>

<p>Dragon Pulse can be used in the third or fourth slot to allow Latios to clean through weakened teams and gives him a Dragon move that doesn't turn him into setup bait. Latios enjoys rain support, since in the rain Surf becomes a great move to use with little drawbacks, and Thunder, which hits most Steel-types very hard and obliterates Water-types, becomes an option. Grass Knot can 2HKO every Tyranitar set after Stealth Rock, as well as 2HKO specially defensive Jellicent, which Draco Meteor fails to do without Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

<p>Stealth Rock helps Latios 2HKO many Pokemon with Draco Meteor alone such as Scizor, Choice Band Tyranitar, and specially defensive Jellicent. Spikes are also very useful and make Latios practically unwallable in conjunction with Stealth Rock, as there isn't a single Pokemon in OU that can avoid the 2HKO from Latios if he uses the right move (outside of rain and sun). Any Steel-type pairs nicely with Latios, so Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jirachi, Skarmory, Heatran, and Bronzong are great teammates. Latios appreciates teammates that can deal with Steel-types, Tyranitar, Chansey, and Blissey, as even though Latios can get past most of them with his coverage moves, he prefers to flatten everything with Draco Meteor. Magnezone can eliminate Ferrothorn, Scizor, and U-turn-less support Jirachi, opening the way for Latios to use Draco Meteor. Magnezone also helps Latios with Scizor even if it doesn't trap it, as Scizor will be reluctant to trap Latios with Pursuit, knowing that it will get trapped by Magnezone after. Terrakion, Lucario, Iron Head Jirachi, and Swords Dance Scizor can all deal with Tyranitar, Chansey, and Blissey, while setting up on Tyranitar locked into Pursuit (except for Jirachi). Latios has many uses and can take multiple roles during the game, namely wallbreaker, offensive pivot, and revenge killer for most unboosted Pokemon, and thus can fit in almost any type of team.</p>

name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Surf
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


<p>Thanks to his great Speed, power, and coverage, Latios becomes one of the premier revenge killers in OU. When holding a Choice Scarf, Latios outspeeds common Choice Scarf users, including Salamence, Jirachi, Keldeo, and Terrakion, and boosting sweepers such as Salac Berry Terrakion, Modest Venusaur in sun, and Shell Smash Cloyster. Draco Meteor is Latios's main revenge killing tool and OHKOes every offensive Pokemon that isn't a Steel-type and is frailer than Keldeo. The Special Attack drop is not a big deal, as after Latios KOes his target the opponent is going to bring a check in anyway. Psyshock takes care of Keldeo, Terrakion, and Venusaur, while Surf covers Heatran, Magnezone, and various other Steel-types and becomes a great cleaning tool in rain. Finally, Trick cripples walls and setup sweepers while also giving Latios the ability to switch moves if the added Speed is not needed, for example against defensive teams.</p>


<p>Politoed powers up Surf thanks to Drizzle and helps Latios get past Steel-types easier. The presence of rain also enables Latios to use Thunder, a great revenge killing tool against Gyarados, Starmie, and Water-types in general. Hidden Power Fire can be used to catch Scizor and Ferrothorn on the switch, but doesn't help revenge kill any particular threat and makes Latios Speed tie with +2 Jolly Cloyster. Dragon Pulse is useful for picking apart weakened teams, as well as OHKOing weakened offensive Pokemon without becoming setup bait afterwards. A fast Memento can provide a crucial setup opportunity for one of your sweepers, as well as cripple troubling Pokemon that Latios cannot harm with his other moves.</p>

<p>While Latios is a superb revenge killer, his Pursuit weakness is his most fatal flaw and holds him back from doing his job effectively when Tyranitar or Scizor are around.
This means that Pursuit users should be eliminated or weakened before Latios comes in or Latios should be partnered with a secondary check to the threats that he handles, so if Latios faces a team with a Pursuit user he isn't rendered totally useless. Unlike most Choice Scarf users, Latios is unable to do anything meaningful to Volcarona, except for locking it into a move, which helps but is situational, so make sure to pack a check for it. Gyarados, Terrakion, and Heatran all handle Volcarona pretty well and have great offensive and defensive synergy with Latios; Gyarados even walls the priority users that Latios fears, namely Scizor and Mamoswine. As this set is a revenge killer and lacks the power to break through specially defensive Pokemon and Steel-types, Pokemon to deal with them are appreciated. Heatran, Terrakion, and Infernape take care of most Steel-types and special walls, and the latter two enjoy outspeeding almost every Pokemon on the opposing team after Latios eliminates the Choice Scarf user or any other fast Pokemon. Magnezone traps and kills Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and U-turn-less Iron Head Jirachi, making it much easier for Latios to spam Draco Meteor and clean up late-game.</p>

name: Life Orb
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


<p>This set is pretty similar to the Choice Specs set, but gives up the extra power in exchange for
the ability to switch moves and reliable recovery. Unlike the Choice Specs set, this one prefers to use coverage moves the first time it gets in to weaken its counters, and even if Latios predicts wrong he can throw out a Draco Meteor the next turn. Basically, this set is more self-sufficient than Choice Specs Latios, as it can take care of its counters more easily, but needs better prediction. With Life Orb, Latios also becomes a great cleaner, as he has great power, coverage, and Speed. Draco Meteor is a powerful move and does severe damage even to Pokemon which resist it. With Psyshock Latios outspeeds and OHKOes Keldeo, Terrakion in sand, and Tentacruel, all very common Pokemon and tricky to deal with, while Latios can take one hit from Keldeo and Tentacruel, making him even more adept at dealing with them. Surf gives coverage against Steel-types and Tyranitar; it 2HKOes Scizor and every Tyranitar after Stealth Rock, bar the specially defensive set. Hidden Power Fire deals 87% minimum to standard Ferrothorn, 2HKOes 252 HP Jirachi after Stealth Rock, and OHKOes Scizor, or 2HKOes after Draco Meteor, giving Latios more freedom when Scizor is around. However, Hidden Power Fire becomes ineffective in rain and causes Latios to lose the Speed tie against opposing Latios, Latias, and Gengar. Roost rounds off the set and helps Latios act as a better pivot and offsets passive damage from Life Orb, sand, and Stealth Rock.</p>


<p>Expert Belt is a great alternative to Life Orb which allows Latios to bluff a Choice Scarf set, which can allow him to possibly eliminate unsuspecting Steel-types. With Expert Belt, Latios can forgo Roost and enhance his coverage with a fourth attacking move. Thunder can replace Psyshock or Surf on rain teams to hit Water-types hard while still hitting Steel-types for neutral damage. Earthquake is an uncommon but effective move to deal with Latios's biggest obstacles, namely Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Heatran in sun. With 160 Attack EVs and a Naive nature, Earthquake 2HKOes 252 HP Tyranitar and 252 HP Jirachi after Stealth Rock and OHKOes 248 HP Heatran. However, Latios's special attacks become noticeably weaker, leaving him open to other threats, so choose wisely. If using Latios on a sun team, Earthquake is strongly recommended to deal with Heatran and Tyranitar, two Pokemon that annoy every sun team in existence. Hidden Power Fighting is an option to 2HKO every Tyranitar after Stealth Rock while hitting Ferrothorn and Heatran for decent damage.</p>

<p>This is probably the set that benefits from Drizzle support the most, as it frequently uses Surf to catch Steel-types on the switch, so Politoed is a good partner. Thunder is viable on rain teams and can be used over either coverage move to deal with Water-types better while still hitting most Steel-types for neutral damage. Sun is another beneficial weather for Latios, as it powers up Hidden Power Fire and allows Latios to get past Steel-types not named Heatran more easily. Both weathers prevent sand damage, which limits Latios's longevity when combined with Life Orb damage. Latios's usual teammates are always appreciated; Terrakion, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Gyarados, and Lucario cover most of Latios's problems.
Most of these teammates can also get past Steel-types, Chansey, and Blissey, while Gyarados has the added benefit of shielding Latios from priority hits from the likes of Scizor and Mamoswine. Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Terrakion provide entry hazards which help Latios KO his opponents. Magnezone is a good partner, but is much less needed for this set, which is more self-reliant than Latios's other offensive sets. When using Expert Belt, it is beneficial to pack Pokemon that can take advantage of the Pokemon that Latios lures and eliminates. Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Heatran are all Pokemon that Latios can get out of the way, so Pokemon such as Terrakion, Gyarados, or Volcarona can sweep unhindered.</p>

name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Surf
move 4: Roost / Psyshock
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


<p>Instead of immediately powering through opponents, this set enables Latios to sweep through teams under the right circumstances. Similarly to Latias, this set finds a switch-in opportunity against a resisted attack and starts using Calm Mind, healing with Roost whenever necessary. However, unlike Latias, Latios can be very threatening after just one or two boosts, and this is where his strength lies. The opponent cannot any longer sacrifice a weakened Pokemon and send in his faster special attacker to KO Latios. Dragon Pulse gives typical great neutral coverage and OHKOes practically every non Steel-type offensive Pokemon after just a boost with Life Orb and Stealth Rock. Surf gives near perfect neutral coverage and picks off any Steel-type neutral to it, and by the time Latios comes in, Steel-types should have already been put into Surf's KO range. Lastly, Roost pairs well with Leftovers, giving Latios more switch-in and setup opportunities, as well as increased longevity, while Life Orb pairs nicely with Psyshock and allows Latios to OHKO Blissey after a boost, Stealth Rock, and a layer of Spikes. Psyshock also gives Latios an easier time against Tentacruel and Gastrodon, both of who can Toxic Latios and start stalling him with Protect and Recover, respectively.</p>


<p>Latios can use an alternative spread of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with Roost and Leftovers. He is basically a slightly more offensive Calm Mind Latias, but Latias usually does this job better, as the extra bulk is appreciated. Hidden Power Fire is an option if Latios is not used on a rain team and gives crucial coverage against Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi. Draco Meteor is a great move for early-game wallbreaking and packs tremendous power after a boost, while the Special Attack drop doesn't trouble Latios so much, thanks to the initial Calm Mind boost. Any combination of STAB and coverage moves can be used, as Calm Mind Latios is pretty flexible and can tailor his moveset according to his team's needs. Lum Berry combined with Hidden Power Fire allows Latios to lure and 2HKO
specially defensive Rotom-W with Thunder Wave, Blissey (needs Psyshock), Toxic Heatran, and slightly weakened specially defensive variants of Jirachi and Celebi, while getting out of the confrontation unscathed.</p>

<p>Politoed is a great teammate, powering up Surf and allowing Latios to OHKO Scizor after a Calm Mind and Stealth Rock.
Magnezone helps deal with the Steel-types that wall Latios depending on the coverage moves he uses, making it much easier for Latios to sweep late-game. Entry hazard setters are beneficial and help Latios get certain OHKOs and 2HKOs after a boost, such as the previously mentioned OHKOs on Scizor and Blissey. Custap Berry Forretress, Focus Sash Terrakion, and Focus Sash Garchomp can all set up entry hazards while also weakening or boosting on Pokemon that Latios has trouble with such as Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Scizor. Swords Dance Terrakion, Substitute + Calm Mind Jirachi, and Swords Dance Scizor can capitalize on the Steel-types that Latios attracts and start putting on offensive pressure. In general, Pokemon that can soften up Steel-types and dedicated special walls, such as Celebi, Jellicent, Blissey, and Chansey, work very well with Latios. Another Dragon-type is especially very effective to use with Calm Mind Latios, as Steel-types will inevitably be drawn in and weakened by it, leaving the rest to Latios to finish. Dragon Dance Dragonite, mixed Salamence, and Substitute Kyurem-B can all do the trick. Finally, Latios fears strong priority, especially from Scizor and Mamoswine, which Gyarados and bulky Swords Dance Scizor with Roost can handle, as well as having good offensive synergy with Latios, serving as good partners.</p>

name: Dual Screens
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Memento
move 4: Draco Meteor
item: Light Clay
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


<p>While Latios is good at blasting stuff, this is not all he can do. With access to Reflect and Light Screen, high Speed, and Memento, Latios makes for a great supporter. The best thing about this set is that it is very unexpected, and Latios really enjoys using defensive Steel-types that his other sets attract to set up on. The combination of dual screens and Memento can turn even the stronger sweeper into a harmless Pokemon for your own sweepers to set up against. Draco Meteor gives Latios a moderately strong attack to hit Taunt users, finish weakened Pokemon, and break Substitutes. Latios won't be staying in long, so the Special Attack drop is rarely an issue, if ever. Light Clay is used to maximize the length of Reflect and Light Screen.</p>


<p>The EVs go to HP and Speed to give Latios the easiest time of setting up both screens. Dragon Pulse is an option over Draco Meteor if you don't want to give many setup chances to the opponent and intend to keep Latios for later, as otherwise Memento prevents any Pokemon from setting up on Latios. The best partners for this set are sweepers that can become very threatening after just one boost. Dragonite, Terrakion, Lucario, Garchomp, Volcarona, Thundurus-T, and Salamence are all great choices.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Latios has Dragon Dance, which can be used on a mixed set with Draco Meteor, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Fire, enabling Latios to sweep through weakened teams and get past his counters, namely Tyranitar and Jirachi. However, the lowered damage output when using special attacks leaves Latios unable to get past many Pokemon that he otherwise could, making this set situational. Substitute allows Latios to avoid status, ease prediction, and avoid revenge kills, but Latios needs Life Orb to power up his coverage moves and thus cannot use Leftovers effectively, so Latios is going to lose health pretty fast. Even though Roost seems like a good idea to use with Substitute, it isn't, as it cuts Latios's coverage and leaves it walled by many Pokemon. Hidden Power Fighting is useful to OHKO Choice Scarf Tyranitar after Stealth Rock and 2HKO any other variant but has no use outside of that. Rain Dance and Water Gem is the only way that Latios can OHKO 252/252+ Tyranitar (after two Stealth Rock switch-ins or Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes), but is a highly situational strategy focused solely on beating Tyranitar.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>The only surefire Latios counters are specially defensive Tyranitar and specially defensive Jirachi, which are able to avoid the 2HKO from any of Latios's moves and either trap and kill him in Tyranitar's case or paralyze and slowly kill him in Jirachi's case. The only move they fear is Earthquake from Life Orb sets, but this move is almost never seen. Heatran in sun and Ferrothorn in rain are also able to wall any Latios variant and are very strong checks even outside of their preferred weather, fearing only Surf and Hidden Power Fire respectively. Apart from those Pokemon, Chansey, Blissey, Scizor, Bronzong, specially defensive Celebi, and Metagross are the best ways to check Latios, as they can stomach Latios's most dangerous weapon, Draco Meteor, but all fear Latios's coverage moves. Scizor and Metagross deserve a special mention, as they are able to trap and kill a Latios locked into the wrong move or after a Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor. Lastly, most faster Pokemon give Latios trouble and can revenge kill him; the the same is true for priority users. Such Pokemon include Choice Scarf Jirachi, Choice Scarf Salamence, Weavile, Tornadus, Starmie, Scizor, and Mamoswine.</p>


lurks in the shadows
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Ok did some small changes and additions and fleshed out checks and counters. What about the Dragon Dance set btw? Main set or OO? These are the two possible DD sets from the previous thread:

shrang said:
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
item: Life Orb
nature: Hasty
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

- I'd put Draco Meteor and Dragon Claw in AC as well. I've been using Draco Meteor a lot, and it's not a bad move for you to spam a bit in the early game to bluff a special set, as well as kill off more physically defensive Pokemon like Slowbro, and just kill off frailer Pokemon such as Gengar without having to resort to Outrage. Dragon Claw is weak, but it does serve a purpose for when you don't want to get locked into Outrage, I guess.
- Other AC: Thunder for rain teams, Roost / Recover for healing
alexwolf said:
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 160 Atk / 96 SpA / 252 Spe

The EVs allow Latios to always 2HKO 252 HP Ttar and Jirachi after SR and always OHKO 248 HP Heatran without SR. Then the rest are thrown to SpA for as much power as possible. Even with 96 SpA EVs DM still hurts and can revenge kill a whole bunch of stuff. Here is a useful calc:

  • DM vs 4 HP Keldeo / Terrakion: 89.5 - 105.86%, 75% chance to OHKO after SR
And those two are some of the most bulky offensive Pokemon in OU, meaning that anything frailer than them (most offensive Pokemon) will get OHKOed by DM after SR. At late game, you can still get two kills if your grab a DD, one with EQ on the opposing Ttar, Jirachi, Heatran or whatever, and another one with DM, which is pretty cool imo. Dragon Pulse if you want to have a higher chance for a clean sweep, but you are gonna need a lot of entry hazards to make it work, and again Latios becomes a lot less threatening in early and mid game.


The Enterpriser.
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As a CC user I feel I need to comment on one of the most threatening dragons in the game!

@ Choice Scarf

- Mention (possibly AC) how Memento is a decent move you can use over trick to act sort of like a kamikaze on a sweeper (for example, +6 Jirachi might not give a fuck about Scarf when Psyshock OHKOs everthing, etc. etc.). Its inferior to Trick for sure, but I feel its good enough for an AC mention. It makes setting up with your sweepers a hell of a lot easier.

@ Life Orb

- AC mention an EV spread of 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe. I know its the one Latias usualy uses, but bulk is everything for these Lati twins. Latios can barely escape things like HP Ice from Keldeo and taking 45% from Terrakion's CC (when no HP investment), The power drop hasn't been noticible when I used it and it allows a bit more bulk to Latios. I feel that with LO, Latios is eqasy to wear down and that this alternative spread helps its longevity a bit more. 72 HP evs hit a LO number so its a good number to hit.

- I would drop HP Fire down to AC. That speed drop is way too notciable. In fact, I would go in favor of slashing Earthquake with Surf as they hit some of the same things but their differences can be explained and they work better slashed.

- Mention how EQ should always be used over surf on a Sun team.

@ Choice Specs

- Drop HP Fire to AC mention. Again, specs needs to speed tie with a lot of things and I think slashing HP Fire is realy not good. HP Fire is also a horrible move to be locked into tbh.

@ Calm Mind

- AC mention 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe. Good for setting up a bit more.

@ Dragon Dance

In BW1, I was very dissapointed. I'll test it again and give feedback though!


Mention SR Jirachi and SD Scizor. Also mention how SubSalac Terrakion is great synergy (beats Tyranitar, beats down on Ferrothorn; Latios can beat Skarm, etc.) Mention how hazard support (DeoD) help both Specs and LO beat down on most of its checks (die Blissey!) Mention how Venusaur is a good partner if in sun since it can beat Scarf Keldeo and just Scarfers in general.

Get rid of Torn-T as a counter :P Nice work Alex! :D


formerly papai noel
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I disagree about putting HP Fire down to AC. Latios totally needs it to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn, and while the Speed drop is bad, you'll still be outspeeding Terrakion, Keldeo, Landorus, Thundurus-T, etc. The only threats you miss with the Speed drop are Gengar and Latias, but using Latios to check both is really lame even with 350 Speed.

And I'd mention Dragon Pulse on the AC of the Scarf set. It's really good late-game when stuff are weakened (did i spell this correctly? :_:).
Dragon Dance is great option because it can go mixed or special with tailwind while supporting the team. With Life Orb its an excellent late game cleaner and outpaces a crap load in the metagame other than scarf Starmie which is uncommon tbh.


You must be tired
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Dragon Dance is great option because it can go mixed or special with tailwind while supporting the team. With Life Orb its an excellent late game cleaner and outpaces a crap load in the metagame other than scarf Starmie which is uncommon tbh.
Dragon Dance Latios is a pretty mediocre Pokemon. The only thing that really does special dragon dance well is Ubers Latios, and that's because it has Soul Dew giving it the power of specs, while DD buffs its speed up. Physical Dragon Dance is outclassed by basically every other possible DDmon because of the mediocre base 90 attack and a complete inability to get around things like Ferrothorn and Forretress, which every other OU dragon dance user can do.


Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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I think as far as Tailwind is concerned, we can just either slash that besides Roost or put it in the AC of the Life Orb set. Latios only needs the temporary Speed boost anyways (Dragon Dance's single boost is almost useless and doesn't let Latios outrun certain variants of Venusaur in sun) and is pretty much good enough assuming Latios can pull of with prediction.

Mixed Dragon Dance, not so sure. Latios is pretty over reliant on Outrage for neutral coverage and damage, so that's one thing.


lurks in the shadows
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Imo DD Latios should not have Outrage at all, and it should not casually use DD too. It should just be played as a Special Attacker att the beggining, like it always is, using EQ to 2HKO its usual counters, while DD is a nice boon to clean weakened teams and lessen the need for prediction against revenge killers and checks/counters. For example bring him in on early game and throw a couple of DMs, and then at late game use DD as the opponent brings in his supposed death fodder. Now you kill the death fodder and can then easily OHKO the opponents Scarf Jirachi with EQ, the only way that the oppponent had to hold back Latios, and you are good to go. This is all theory though, as i didn't have the time to test the set yet, but i will as soon as i can...


Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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Yeah. Just don't use Outrage at all.

I'm fine with Dragon Dance only if it's used for Earthquake, since it benefits both Earthquake and Latios's speed.


lurks in the shadows
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Ok got rid of the Torn-T mentions and added Tornadus instead! Also thx Shurt for the help, i added almost everything except for a few things. HP Fire stays in all the main sets as it is essential coverage, and i didn't add your bulkier spread in the AC of LO Latios because i think that Latias does better this role.
imo Choice Scarf should be below Life Orb in the set order; Life Orb is a really good set, while Choice Scarf is just so weak. though that shouldn't be a major concern for a revenge killer, Draco Meteor leaves Latios as setup fodder. while I recognize the niche and viability of the set, Life Orb is better.


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Teammates for individual sets are repetitive, but I guess it cannot be helped. As the author of Latios's analysis, you can provide subtle differences, though. For instance, when would you opt for Specs, Life Orb, or Calm Mind, and how would your team build be different to reflect this subtle changes? Not all 3 sets would work equally well on any given team, so it would be great if you can help differentiate when one would use a particular set over the other.

For Calm Mind and LO, for instance, I find them fitting well in Dragon Spam teams; specifically LO as an initial wallbreaker to soften up Steels, while Calm Mind serve as a late-game sweeper with CM-boosted Dragon Pulses.

Now focusing on specific part of the analysis:

Calm Mind

AC mention HP Fire for Scizor / Ferrotorn / Jirachi (outside of Rain)

AC Draco Meteor +1 LO Draco Meteor is strong for breaking holes early game, and the special fall is not as devastating thanks to the initial CM boost

AC that any combination of STAB and coverage moves can work here, not just the one displayed above.

Provide specific teammates for diff move combinations. A CM Latios lacking Surf would appreciate Dugtrio support to trap Heatran and Tyranitar. CM Latios lacking Psyshock would appreciate a Pokemon that can destroy special walls like Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Blissey. CM Latios lacking HP Fire would appreciate Magnezone support to remove Ferrothorn.

Alternative spread: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Specify that this thread would only be suitable on the more defensive set with Roost and Leftovers

Other Options: Add Psychic for overall stronger STAB move, and may occasionally end up useful when facing the likes of BU Conkeldurr

Checks & Counters: Remove Slowking, since it's not prevalent in OU. Also specify Scarfers that can beat Latios, since not all of them can beat Latios (ie Scarfed Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Rotom-W). Namely Scarfed Dragons, Scarf Tar, and Scarf Scizor are the most reliable mons for this job.


lurks in the shadows
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Ok explained more the difference between the LO and the Specs set on the Set Comments of the LO set, and also added some Dragon-type partners for CM Latios. I think it is now fine, and tbh i don't believe that the LO and Specs sets need different partners, as they both take similar roles, just with different approaches. The LO set forfeits the ability to beat Chansey and Jirachi in order to heal and switch moves, and cannot spam DM as free as Specs can, and this is basically it.

The only thing i can do on the AC of the LO set is to mention teammates that benefit from the removal of threats that EB Latios lures, but EB isn't even on the main set so i don't know.

So i want to know if i should add teammates that benefit from EB Latios, and apart from this i think that this is rdy for QC checks...


It's all coming back to me now
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So i want to know if i should add teammates that benefit from EB Latios
Potentially not a bad idea. EB Latios is only really using Expert Belt to either avoid recoil from Life Orb, and / or to bluff a choice item to get a KO. It does a fairly decent job at luring in and nailing Scizor with HP Fire I guess (tho residual damage can make this a coinflip depending on if it bullet punchs or U-Turns / Pursuits) so perhaps a partner that could enjoy the absence of Scizor or something?



alone with my friends
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looks great, just wondering why it needed a revamp in the first place...? no notable new moves, no real set changes, etc.
A bit late, but could you please give Lum Berry a mention on CM? It's of significant enough benefit to Latios to warrant such action IMO, allowing him to not only bluff a Scarf, but also blast through some of his checks and counters rather early in the game; i.e, it turns Latios into a pretty good lure for Natt / Jirachi (if HP Fire is being used) as well as the blobs after a teeny-tiny bit of residual damage.