Resource LC Viability Rankings

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I'll bring up two Pokémon that I think are worthy of being ranked:

Wailmer: Scarf Wailmer is one of the best late game cleaners: with access to Water Spout it's able to do an enormous damage to most of the metagame with its 70 SAtk stat which allows it to hit 16 in SAtk with Timid. It also has a nice bulk with its huge HP stat (130) but it has low defensive stats and a limited moveset. To be honest I don't know why it isn't in the list and I believe its worthy of being C.

Remoraid: Another Water Spout Pokémon, it's also a nice late game cleaner when it's holding a Scarf and unlike Wailmer it has a wide and varied moveset (Fire Blast, Psychic..), it's also faster than Wailmer as it's able to hit 17 in Speed with Timid and it can run also a set with Charge Beam but it's outclassed by the Scarf set as Remoraid has a low 35/35/35 bulk and can't stay in for a long time. Remoraid for C too.
 


Snubbull B rank --> B+ rank WHY: Snubbull is one of the few LC pokes that were gifted with the amazing fairy type. As i said in my spritzee post, i said spritzee was one of the best fairys(if i recal, I'm too lazy to look back :P). Snubbull is one of those best fairy types in LC. Since fairy types are rare in LC, Snubbull doesnt have that much competition in LC.Now, it has an incredible movepool which has t-wave(AMAZING),play rough(AMAZING STAB),earthquake(GOD DAMN!),heal bell,close combat,crunch,and thief. See that? Snubbull doesn't mess around. Plus, this thing has amazing coverage. Magnemite and pawniard(snub's biggest counters) can be predicted on the switch and be killed with earthquake. You may need to have stealth rocks support for sturdy mag. Snubbull can hit hard and wittle down potential threats for your sweepers with thunder wave. Plus, snubbull has that STAB play rough and can easily get you a bunch of KOs with top tier threats. Its ability, Intimidate, can also lower physical attackers down which is super sweet with fletchling. With misdreavus around, you could use the thief strategy to get missy's berry juice or eviolite :D. Snubbull is a pokemon in LC that deserves more than B rank.

DON'T DENY IT,SNUBBULL IS CUTE AF!
I agree with this. The Thief set is a pain to face, and Snubbull checks virtually all the fighters in the tier. It doesn't really fear Knock Off that much, because it enables it to steal an item, which makes this thing pretty hard to take down. It also has great coverage, and Intimidate is always useful for Physical attackers. Heal Bell means status doesn't phase it all too much and provides valuable team support. B+ seems to be great for this ugly ass mofo.
 
that's a tiny niche - i get that trapinch is viable and it fulfills this niche in a trick room team, but that's not worthy of C, that's a D-rank niche. D rank means has a small niche but only justify their use on the odd team
Well, as I was discussing with QuoteCS just now, Bellsprout has rank C and it's used alongside Vulpix but Bellsprout really needs sun to work in its entirety because its sun-abusing set uses Weather Ball, which turns back to Normal type leaving it with gross Grass/Poison/Normal coverage that pretty much gets walled by Steel, Ghost and Rock Types because you can't even use Solar beam while there's no sun or you could be set up on. It also has a fair number of checks including Chespin, Vullaby, Mantyke, Hippopotas and Magby (Don't want to go into more of these). My point is, all Bellsprout does is try to sweep or clean up late game, which it shouldn't do too easily if people use a dedicated check. Meanwhile, Trapinch has the ability to eliminate the most threatening grounded Pokemon for the team, making the sweep easier to pull off later on. So, comparing their the circumstances in which they're used, I don't see why Trapinch doesn't deserve at least a lower rank than Bellsprout.
 

The Avalanches

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Well, as I was discussing with QuoteCS just now, Bellsprout has rank C and it's used alongside Vulpix but Bellsprout really needs sun to work in its entirety because its sun-abusing set uses Weather Ball, which turns back to Normal type leaving it with gross Grass/Poison/Normal coverage that pretty much gets walled by Steel, Ghost and Rock Types because you can't even use Solar beam while there's no sun or you could be set up on. It also has a fair number of checks including Chespin, Vullaby, Mantyke, Hippopotas and Magby (Don't want to go into more of these). My point is, all Bellsprout does is try to sweep or clean up late game, which it shouldn't do too easily if people use a dedicated check. Meanwhile, Trapinch has the ability to eliminate the most threatening grounded Pokemon for the team, making the sweep easier to pull off later on. So, comparing their the circumstances in which they're used, I don't see why Trapinch doesn't deserve at least a lower rank than Bellsprout.
I think the big difference is that Trick Room is a much less popular playstyle than Sun. Vulpix and Bellsprout are both in the top 20 in the usage stats, sun certainly isn't as niche as Trick Room.
 
I think the big difference is that Trick Room is a much less popular playstyle than Sun.
Let's stop it there for a sec. Just because people don't use it doesn't mean it's not good. Trick Room is a play-style just like weather is. So, that set aside, I think my point stands. If Bellsprout gets C+ rank with his niche, I think my little Trapinch can get at least C-, being a great asset to TR like Bellsprout is sun's asset.
 

The Avalanches

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Let's stop it there for a sec. Just because people don't use it doesn't mean it's not good. Trick Room is a play-style just like weather is. So, that set aside, I think my point stands. If Bellsprout gets C+ rank with his niche, I think my little Trapinch can get at least C-, being a great asset to TR like Bellsprout is sun's asset.
I know that, and while I don't like using usage as an argument, there is some truth to it. While Trick Room is an awesome way to play, it's arguably less effective than Sun, as there is no auto-setter, no item to extend its duration, and only a few really good abusers of it. While Trapinch is arguably one of the better ones - similar to Bellsprout under the sun, that still doesn't change that Trick Room is still very niche and that Trapinch fits under D-rank in my opinion.
 
I know that, and while I don't like using usage as an argument, there is some truth to it. While Trick Room is an awesome way to play, it's arguably less effective than Sun, as there is no auto-setter, no item to extend its duration, and only a few really good abusers of it. While Trapinch is arguably one of the better ones - similar to Bellsprout under the sun, that still doesn't change that Trick Room is still very niche and that Trapinch fits under D-rank in my opinion.
the only reason usage could be used is to say that if you lose vulpix in some way, the opposing team can pick up on your mistake even without their wanting. but the case is, usage means shit otherwise, cause if you play sun you shouldn't lose vulpix. even against other sun as its hella strong. TR is very anti meta vs sun especially so suns usage helps its usefulness, this helping trapinch.
 
as there is no auto-setter, no item to extend its duration, and only a few really good abusers of it. While Trapinch is arguably one of the better ones - similar to Bellsprout under the sun, that still doesn't change that Trick Room is still very niche and that Trapinch fits under D-rank in my opinion.
Well, there is no auto-setter, true, although that's not a huge issue, as the effect of Trick Room will benefit only you (assuming you're playing properly) unlike weather, which can be taken advantage off by your opponent. It's only 4 turns but think about it. LC is very fast paced, so 4 turns of only you going first are deadly, because you're not going to be using any weak shit, you're going to be using hard-hitting Pokemon that will punch holes for those 4 turns. Trapinch is simply a support Pokemon for this playstyle. And you say there's few really good abusers but my signature has quite a few, and they're not bad by any means, since they all hit hard enough and have the proper speed to be used on TR.

TR is very anti meta vs sun especially so suns usage helps its usefulness, this helping trapinch.
Bold says enough.
 

tcr

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the only reason usage could be used is to say that if you lose vulpix in some way, the opposing team can pick up on your mistake even without their wanting. but the case is, usage means shit otherwise, cause if you play sun you shouldn't lose vulpix. even against other sun as its hella strong. TR is very anti meta vs sun especially so suns usage helps its usefulness, this helping trapinch.
Do you know what else is antimeta versus sun? Rindo Berry RP Amaura. This doesn't mean that that suddenly pushes Amaura up into B or even A tier. A niche is a niche, yes, but sun simply isn't popular enough to warrant these niche bump ups. Antimeta should not be a factor in pushing for a rise, as "meta" is very subjective, and changes way too often the more people discover new things. Trick Room is so niche, there's no point in putting Pokemon such as Trapinch or Solosis that high. Not to mention that it may "counter" sun, but that implies that you gain control of the battle, which is a feat of itself against a hyper offensive Sun team.
 

Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Reading over all of this I have to add my pennies into the change jar.

Trapinch has the second highest raw attack in LC only beaten by Cranidos. (i think i could be wrong, someone tell me if i am about this also dont say cubone or azurill they dont count)

Arena Trap + Massive Attack = amazing trapper who kills who it traps

however bleh movepool with not a lot of unique options (rock slide / crunch / eq / bug bite / super power) + no knock off to bone ghost switchins (bc they finna wow) = a bit bad in my eyes

granted you're guaranteed close to a OHKO if said ghost switches into your gaping maw (gastly and floon are def OHKO, missy is 6.3%, yamask and duskull are 2/3hko)

but i cannot deny wanting to try out band / lo trapinch purely for breaking a few teams with a new fun toy.

i can see it in d rank necessarily but c- is pushing it seeing as it doesn't have much else to bring to the table other than trapping which is counterintuitive to it wanting to ko things since status ruins it and it doesnt wanna deal with ghosts with wow.

i agree with a move up but im on the fence as to where. im fine with d for now tbh but iunno i dont wanna dismiss how powerful it is.

also to make a point, comparing sun x chlorophyll support to tr x tr abuser support is silly.

mostly because chlorophyll users get two powerful attacks that distinguish them form regular grass types who dont operate under sun (solarbeam + weather ball) and better support moves (growth is x2, synthesis/moonlight heal 67%). the only downside is that fire weakness is aggravated (not taking time into a factor

trick room abusers dont get much but reversed speed, making them faster and able to rely on their bulk and power rather than having to siphon on EVs for speed. That amenity is enough for them though.

tl;dr trapinch is worth a raise imo but im not sure how high to raise it. lets start with D Rank for now.

( sorry dsr95 )
 

Rowan

The professor?
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changes

trapinch -> D
chespin -> C
snubbull -> B+

idk where to put solosis it'd be nice if someone else weighed in on that

no-one commented on Yagura's post about wailmer and remoraid either so idk about that

some proposals of my own:

vulpix B -> B+ amazingly strong under sun, and supports sun sweepers. fantastic wallbreaker+support mon, can run scarf as a nice revenge killer - fire's such an amazing offensive type right now

corphish, cranidos and taillow from B- -> B.
Corphish is a super strong wallbreaker with just 4 attacks. I've been testing Swords Dance a bit, and with aqua jet that has amazing potential to break through loads of teams. it also gets Band+switcheroo which is another amazing wallbreaker set.
Cranidos is like the most powerful Pokemon in LC, it can functions fantastically with Sticky Web or TR or baton pass support - However, it doesn't even need that since it has 16 Speed which is enough to outspeed loads of LC threats, such as Scraggy, Magnemite, every single wall, and it is really powerful, 2HKOing everything and OHKOing most things with hazard support. And then it can also run its scarf moldbreaker set which is the strongest revenge killer out there.
If Doduo is B, I don't see why Taillow shouldn't be. It has some great options with a guts or a choice specs set, and can utilise steel wing to get round archen. also gets u-turn for momentum, quick attack which is kinda clutch, and boomburst is a great thing to wallbreak with.

snivy to D - 17 speed, dual screens, taunt, knock off makes it a decent enough support mon and probably the best grass type with dual screens
 

Aerow

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Yeah, I agree with all of Rowan's proposals. Vulpix is amazing right now, and works great as a wallbreaker aside from being a Sun setter, and definetely deserves B+ rank. I also agree with moving Corphish, Cranidos and Taillow up, especially Cranidos and Taillow.

EDIT: Solosis can be D-rank I guess.
 

Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
changes

trapinch -> D
chespin -> C
snubbull -> B+

idk where to put solosis it'd be nice if someone else weighed in on that

no-one commented on Yagura's post about wailmer and remoraid either so idk about that

some proposals of my own:

vulpix B -> B+ amazingly strong under sun, and supports sun sweepers. fantastic wallbreaker+support mon, can run scarf as a nice revenge killer - fire's such an amazing offensive type right now

corphish, cranidos and taillow from B- -> B.
Corphish is a super strong wallbreaker with just 4 attacks. I've been testing Swords Dance a bit, and with aqua jet that has amazing potential to break through loads of teams. it also gets Band+switcheroo which is another amazing wallbreaker set.
Cranidos is like the most powerful Pokemon in LC, it can functions fantastically with Sticky Web or TR or baton pass support - However, it doesn't even need that since it has 16 Speed which is enough to outspeed loads of LC threats, such as Scraggy, Magnemite, every single wall, and it is really powerful, 2HKOing everything and OHKOing most things with hazard support. And then it can also run its scarf moldbreaker set which is the strongest revenge killer out there.
If Doduo is B, I don't see why Taillow shouldn't be. It has some great options with a guts or a choice specs set, and can utilise steel wing to get round archen. also gets u-turn for momentum, quick attack which is kinda clutch, and boomburst is a great thing to wallbreak with.
The only thing i know about Wailer is that it's the ohe of the only mons to get Water Spout (other than Frillish and Remoraid) 70s Offenses are great but when backed up by 130 HP and meager 35/35 defenses. . . :U you dont seem to be taking hits well. Especially if you're running Water Spout. Imo lets wait since i wanna try out an evio set and see how it fares :I

Remoraid has ridiculous coverage for a pure Water type (Fire Blast, Bullet Seed, Seed Bomb, Charge Beam, Flamethrower, Gunk Shot, Psychic, Rock Blast, Signal Beam, SOAK). Ive tried the tried and true Torchic Focus Energy + Spe pass so that it could abuse Sniper + Scope Lens (Stage 3 Crit Chance 100% critical hits, crits doing 2.25x more damage) Anywho, it's amazing 65 offenses enough to go mixed or even stay Physical or Special, and it's hitting 17 speed with a +spe nature. i would like this to move up a bit.

Vulpix is amazing nothing to add on except i wish you had solarbeam.
Corphish hits really effing hard with adapt + dd, please understand i hate trying to wall it. i cant.
Cranidos (indefinite splurge) nothing to add thank you (read my previous posts on cranidos)
Taillow should be B since it's slightly unpredictable when it comes to set. It's either Physical or Special. Both sets have high risk high rewards to them as one set is walled by what the other set can sorta beat (that being said, does hp ground / fight beat all the steels? well bronzor will kek since you need hp fire for it unless someone is a dick and is risking heatproof just to go HAH)

(lol wailmer has higher base atk / spa but remoraid hits harder)

tl;dr move up remoraid, move up taillow, +1 wait on wailmer, cran is god, and corphish is amazing.
 
For the record I actually wanted to see corphish higher than b- but I didn't want to come across as someone who gets hard ons at the sight of a corphish lol so go back an check my post of your wondering why I want it at B I also don't think I mentioned that it can nuke shit with a choice band set and also gets switcheroo

Also agree with cranidos and tailow moving up cranidos is such a powerhouse and it's flaws don't lie in its speed like many people think, 15-16 is not to bad the main thing that hampers Cranidos is being weak to common priorty Ajet and Mach Punch and overall low bulk. Also keep in mind that this thing reaches a max attack of 24 and has two great abilities that compliment it's offensive potential. Of course webs and speed passes are cool but with such high attack it can be paired with a pivot like mienfoo, chinchou magnemite, larvesta, Etc to get a free switch and do some damage. Keep in mind it does get Rock Polish but priority is the main reason to not use it. Regardless getting double speed with a cranidos is obviously very dangerous

Agreeing with rowan on tailow for the reasons mentioned I want to emphasise how good steel wing is for luring in archen, tailows 19 speed also allows a scarf set to revenge kill stuff like +1 scraggy it can go offensive and defensive and with Scrappy Misdreavus is not safe from boom burst especially because it hits through subs!!!
 
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Do you know what else is antimeta versus sun? Rindo Berry RP Amaura. This doesn't mean that that suddenly pushes Amaura up into B or even A tier. A niche is a niche, yes, but sun simply isn't popular enough to warrant these niche bump ups. Antimeta should not be a factor in pushing for a rise, as "meta" is very subjective, and changes way too often the more people discover new things. Trick Room is so niche, there's no point in putting Pokemon such as Trapinch or Solosis that high. Not to mention that it may "counter" sun, but that implies that you gain control of the battle, which is a feat of itself against a hyper offensive Sun team.
I never said I wanted trapinch up, in usage, frankly I haven't seen dsr play tr and have no judgment on it, but avalanches bad argument made me want to comment. Also tr lasts enough to effectively cancel sun, unless heat rock, which limits them to 2 turns of free abuse, which trapinch will take care of. Also, porygon leads pretty well vs vulpix, and if it isn't hypnosis you can get TR up right off the bat.
 

Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
>snivy to D - 17 speed, dual screens, taunt, knock off makes it a decent enough support mon and probably the best grass type with dual screens
YOU THINK YOU'RE SLY ROWAN THINKING I DIDNT SEE THAT

Also i wanna talk about about Grasshole and how amazing it is for a GRass Support mon. It gets over on Vullaby with one move that most Grass Types dont get.

GLARE. That's right. 100% paralysis and Overcoat doesnt block it. Most Stun Spore carriers wish they were blasted sideways. HOWEVER. That doesnt merit staying in to lose your eviolite. Plus Vull runs BB / HEat Wave commonly. ALSO you can nail Grass type switchins and nullify their ascension into annoyance. Well... Grass/Poison mons like Foongus will Sludge Bomb you so be wary.

Notable Moves includes Knock Off, Leaf Blade, Aqua Tail, Leaf Storm, Torment, Taunt, Glare (explained already), Growth, Coil, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Light Screen / Reflect (also explained already), Mean Look, lol Snatch

There's a LOT of interesting options and while Snivy is outclassed by a lot as a supporter (Cottonee / Foongus) and an offensive threat (Chlorosweepers) It's still has a strong niche. I would like C- but i should get replays and play around with trolly lure sets first so i can have a stronger case. Also i realise im tossing out a bunch of moves that arent seen commonly like Snatch and Torment but i would like to see how what it does, i can play around with Foongus with Light Screen + Torment + Glare theorhetically. . . Like i said i need to test stuff but i would like to try giving Snivy a chance.

That being said it's offenses arent much to write home about but 4 fucking boosting moves and a good enough movepool to get places against some mons is good enough for me.

Lets give it a shot?
 
>snivy to D - 17 speed, dual screens, taunt, knock off makes it a decent enough support mon and probably the best grass type with dual screens
YOU THINK YOU'RE SLY ROWAN THINKING I DIDNT SEE THAT

Also i wanna talk about about Grasshole and how amazing it is for a GRass Support mon. It gets over on Vullaby with one move that most Grass Types dont get.

GLARE. That's right. 100% paralysis and Overcoat doesnt block it. Most Stun Spore carriers wish they were blasted sideways. HOWEVER. That doesnt merit staying in to lose your eviolite. Plus Vull runs BB / HEat Wave commonly. ALSO you can nail Grass type switchins and nullify their ascension into annoyance. Well... Grass/Poison mons like Foongus will Sludge Bomb you so be wary.

Notable Moves includes Knock Off, Leaf Blade, Aqua Tail, Leaf Storm, Torment, Taunt, Glare (explained already), Growth, Coil, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Light Screen / Reflect (also explained already), Mean Look, lol Snatch

There's a LOT of interesting options and while Snivy is outclassed by a lot as a supporter (Cottonee / Foongus) and an offensive threat (Chlorosweepers) It's still has a strong niche. I would like C- but i should get replays and play around with trolly lure sets first so i can have a stronger case. Also i realise im tossing out a bunch of moves that arent seen commonly like Snatch and Torment but i would like to see how what it does, i can play around with Foongus with Light Screen + Torment + Glare theorhetically. . . Like i said i need to test stuff but i would like to try giving Snivy a chance.

That being said it's offenses arent much to write home about but 4 fucking boosting moves and a good enough movepool to get places against some mons is good enough for me.

Lets give it a shot?
Jac , I do agree with you on the snivy thing,but if you want to use a snivy, you're going to have a check and counter to the world's most talked about bird - fletchling. This limits teambuilding also.Fletchling absolutely wrecks snivy in every way and that priority acrobatics really does hinder snivy. But, hey, every pokemon has a flaw of their own. Yes, snivy's relatively small, but amazing movepool is one of its keys to its rise in LC. You never see a support pokemon with knock off(if i recal correctly) except purrloin off the top my head. Knock off is extremely useful for making your sweepers have an easier job and to make it more easier, snivy's light screen and reflect help them last longer and be a bigger threat to your opponent's team. Since it could learn mean look, it can trap pokes that can't do any to almost damage to it and set up screens and knock out them with a combo of knock off and leaf blade/lead storm. It could also glare incoming checks/counters/sweepers to nerf them.Overall,snivy is a pretty cool snake. I don't know what rank it should be though. I'll edit it in when I think of it.
 

Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Jac , I do agree with you on the snivy thing,but if you want to use a snivy, you're going to have a check and counter to the world's most talked about bird - fletchling. This limits teambuilding also.Fletchling absolutely wrecks snivy in every way and that priority acrobatics really does hinder snivy. But, hey, every pokemon has a flaw of their own. Yes, snivy's relatively small, but amazing movepool is one of its keys to its rise in LC. You never see a support pokemon with knock off(if i recal correctly) except purrloin off the top my head. Knock off is extremely useful for making your sweepers have an easier job and to make it more easier, snivy's light screen and reflect help them last longer and be a bigger threat to your opponent's team. Since it could learn mean look, it can trap pokes that can't do any to almost damage to it and set up screens and knock out them with a combo of knock off and leaf blade/lead storm. It could also glare incoming checks/counters/sweepers to nerf them.Overall,snivy is a pretty cool snake. I don't know what rank it should be though. I'll edit it in when I think of it.
Oh dont worry i have some fun things to troll fletchling with.

Plus there's not much teambulding Fletch limits me to. Since Snivy is my Star i'd just have to cover grass type checks. And toss in a sweeper and hallelujah~
 
Can we move Sandshrew up out of C-? People are starting to use sand more, and Drilbur + Sandshrew is a really good core, and since they share each others checks, they can progressively weaken them to pave a sweep. Sand offense is shaping up to be a pretty good playstyle at the moment, and Shrew is pretty essential to this success.It also gets Rapid Spin, which allows Drilbur to run more coverage options. With Sand Rush, it hits 28 speed (max investment + nature), which is good enough to outspeed most scarf mons. It has great physical bulk, and while it does require sand support and share weaknesses with common teammates, I think it should be C or even C+ because of how effective it is in helping something like Drilbur sweep.
 
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Can we move Sandshrew up out of C-? People are starting to use sand more, and Drilbur + Sandshrew is a really good core, and since they share each others checks, they can progressively weaken them to pave a sweep. Sand offense is shaping up to be a pretty good playstyle at the moment, and Shrew is pretty essential to this success.It also gets Rapid Spin, which allows Drilbur to run more coverage options. With Sand Rush, it hits 28 speed (max investment + nature), which is good enough to outspeed most scarf mons. It has great physical bulk, and while it does require sand support and share weaknesses with common teammates, I think it should be C or even C+ because of how effective it is in helping something like Drilbur sweep.
I second this 100%. Shrew deserves more than C-, being able to run insane bulk and attack (only 1 less than Drillbur's) but still out-speeding all un-scarfed Pokemon with only 40 Spe investment. Shrew can also be part of a great defensive core with Lileep/Koffing.
 
I second this 100%. Shrew deserves more than C-, being able to run insane bulk and attack (only 1 less than Drillbur's) but still out-speeding all un-scarfed Pokemon with only 40 Spe investment. Shrew can also be part of a great defensive core with Lileep/Koffing.
Yes Dhaora and Slashari I also agree , and by the way Dhaora, sand rush DOUBLES your speed in sand, so you already outspeed all non-scarfers with no speed investments :). I love sandshrew since it's a heavy hitter(extremely good with sand up and LO) and it has good things that drilbur doesn't have. In my opinion,the biggest difference is knock off and bulk.

Edit: Sorry, you Do need additional speed evs to outspeed all non-scarfers.
 
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Yes Dhaora and Slashari I also agree , and by the way Dhaora, sand rush DOUBLES your speed in sand, so you already outspeed all non-scarfers with no speed investments :). I love sandshrew since it's a heavy hitter(extremely good with sand up and LO) and it has good things that drilbur doesn't have. In my opinion,the biggest difference is knock off and bulk.
Nah, Dhaora is actually right, you do need investment to outspeed diglett, elekid, and voltorb, however you only need 36 EVs; not 40.
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Well I know this is kinda long, but I haven't been posting here and there have been many Pokemon talked about. Some of them I had a lot to say about, and some very little. But here is all my opinions from the last long time lol. I'll try to keep up and post as we go from now on instead haha.

And yes I know, late! Late, late, late. I got it. Thanks.

Abra - I think Abra can stay A-, but I could see A as well. It hits really hard, and pretty much every non-defensive dedicated Pokemon can not survive two hits from it. Also, it is always a mind game as to whether it is Life Orb or Focus Sash, so it can prevent opponents from setting up and sweeping just out of fear of Focus Sash. If it is Focus Sash it can stop any sweeper, no matter how set up they are, and just this ability makes it incredibly good. I could definitely see A, but A- is okay too.
Amaura - It is just weak to way to many types. It doesn't have much it can do either to give it an effective niche. It's a cool Pokemon and I like it, but it is bad. No B rank, please. C or C- rank please.
Buneary - Its ability to set up Cosmic Power and Agility and Baton Pass it to another teammate to allow it to set up is quite good. It also has Switcheroo to pass some cool harmful items to the opponent like Choice items or Assault Vest. However, it is extremely weak to all the Fighting-types running around and it doesn't offer much else.
Chespin - Hype hype. Okay you guys hyped it enough so I won't say anything really. C- please.
Chikorita - I don't really like it all the much. I always feel like GameFreak has been a little mean to Grass-types, and especially Chikorita. Not much coverage, not great support moves. If anything I think it should be D rank at best, and definitely no higher.
Cubone - Cubone is one of those Pokemon that has the potential to be great, but is let down by one stat. While it has massive Atatck due to its Thick Club, it is hindered by its dismal speed. Since it holds the Thick Club it can't hold Berry Juice or Eviolite, so it can't take many hits either (although it can take a couple weak ones on the physical side), and since it has low Speed it will often be hit before attacking. It is also let down by the prevalence of Knock Off in the tier. If its Thick Club is knocked off it becomes weak offensivly and frail defensivly, as well as being slow. If it had more Speed and could outspeed more things without being hit, I would definitely put it high up. However, I think it is suited well in C-, because it needs a great deal of support to take out faster threats and opponents with priority.
Clamperl - I have to say that this should stay in C. While if it sets up it can hit like a truck or two, it just has trouble setting up due to not having an Eviolite or Berry Juice. Also, Clamperl's strength is greatly hindered by the priority in the tier, particularly Fletchling, and lack of a priority move itself. With -1 defenses and no Eviolite, Clamperl is not going to be sticking around very long. Clamperl also suffers the same dreadful fate as Cubone as well, in that it is entirely reliant on its item. If it gets knocked off (and survives the hit lol) it becomes extremely weak for a Shell Smasher and basically useless. I think its massive Special Attack is enough to give it a place in C, but any higher would be overdoing it a bit in my opinion since it is checked by way to many Pokemon.
Cranidos - It just hits really hard, and with a Scarf it outspeed the entire unboosted meta. I think just its sheer power gives it a place in C- or B+. Not much else to say here.
Darumaka - Darumaka is very similar to Cranidos in that it spams high powered moves, and it even uses Hustle to hit extremely hard. Not many Pokemon can take and not much can take a STAB, Hustle Flare Blitz. I think that C+ suits it well, just due to the fact that accuracy lets it down along with recoil damage.
Diglett - Diglett is a great Pokemon for talking out certain threats, and I think it should be A- or B+ for this reason. It's already been discussed a lot, and while it is walled by a lot, it is great at what it does. Its great at its niche, and is a great Pokemon to pick if you need this trait.
Dwebble - When we did the A rankings I said it should be A- or even B+, and I still hold that opinion. The metagame is less hyper offense now, so suicide hazard leads aren't as good anymore, and Dweeble itself just doesn't do as well against some of the most common Pokemon. It is just meh now in my opinion.
Ferroseed - Ferroseed should be B+ or A- in my opinion, but I really think B+. It is great at getting up hazards, and it generally gets up Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes against non-Fighting-type Pokemon, but unfortunately Mienfoo is the most common lead right now and absolutely wrecks Ferroseed. It has no way to heal besides Leech Seed as well, and this really makes it vulnerable in the long run. Also, while it excels at getting up hazards, it lacks a large offensive presence. While it can hurt Ground and Rock-types, it can't do anything against other types. It becomes set up fodder, although it does have Thunder Wave to support the team. I really think moving it out of A- and into B+ is the right move for Ferroseed.
Fletchling - This has already been discussed about a lot, so I don't think there is much need for me to go into to much detail. Its high powered priority makes it really good, and I definitely think it should be at least A+. I think that it could possibly be S due to its ability to clean as long as the opponents are weakened.
Foongus - I am on board with Levi for this one. I think Foongus should definitely be A, and even A+ is not out of the realm of possibility in my mind. Foongus' access to Spore is invaluable, as sleep is so hard to counter for most teams. If you can send an opponent to sleep, you are helping one of your teammates out greatly, as it doesn't have to worry about that Pokemon checking it. And like I said, most teams can't counter sleep. The only way to is to have Spritzee, Vullaby, or a Grass-type, and in Spritzee's case the sleep isn't countered until it can get it and use Aromatherapy. Along with its valuable Spore, it is also very bulky, and its typing allows it to resist some great types like Fighting, which are everywhere. It also checks a lot of common Pokemon like Tirtouga, Magnemite, Chinchou, Carvanha, and Cottonee with its wide range of moves including Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Hidden Power [Fighting]. Add on Regenerator and Giga Drain and it has the longevity that most Pokemon only dream about. In my opinion, this bulk, ability to check a wide range of range Pokemon, and Spore make it deserving of A, and even A+ (even with Fletchling being everywhere).
Gothita - I have never seen Gothita used, nor have I used it myself, so it is kinda hard to say where it should be. It seems like it would be good, and it is similar to Diglett. So C+...? I can't really say unfortunately... :/
Hippopotas - I think it s both very good and bad at the same time. While it sets up Stealth Rocks well and sand for sand teams, it just lacks in other areas. It isn't to threatening offensively, and it becomes underwhelming defensively after having its Eviolite knocked off, which isn't hard to do with something like Mienfoo. However, it does have Slack Off which is a plus. I think B rank suits it well, as it has stuff it does, but it isn't exceptionally great at them.
Karrablast - It seems strong, but I don't really know enough about it to say...
Magnemite - I love Choice Scarf Magnemite. It is great at getting momentum by forcing switches and Volt Switching out. I also find Analytic to be a great ability because it powers up your moves as the opponent switches out. It is great to be able to outspeed some big threats and be able to KO them first. I have never used the Sturdy + Berry Juice set, but when I play against it I find it to be great as well. I think it for sure deserves the A+ rank it has.
Ponyta - Ponyta is a great Pokemon, and I think it every bit deserves to stay A-. It can take two hits from Knock Off by Pawniard, so it can just Morning Sun and fish for a Flame Body burn. Just that is a great quality in my opinion. It can use Will-O-Wisp to spread burns if you aren't happy with the 30% chance of Flame Body too. Flare Blitz hits extremely hard, and with Sunny Day it is powered up even further (including 75% healing from Morning Sun). Just the healing, burn spreading, speed, and power of Ponyta make it easily worthy of A- rank, even though it is weak to Stealth Rock.
Psyduck - It has a small niche of beating sun setters, and this is why it should be D rank. It stops them, but it does nothing else. Niche. D rank. Done.
Purrloin - Purrloin is just more irritating than anything. Prankster Thunder Wave pretty good though, and Foul Play does hit some things pretty hard. C rank in my opinion.
Sandshrew - C or C- Rank please. It is bulky and gets Knock Off over Drilbur, but otherwise it is outclassed.
Scraggy - I think A- is an appropriate rank for Scraggy. While it can sweep if set up, enough things counter or check it to prevent it from doing so. Even with a Dragon Dance Fletchling can revenge, along with other Fighting-types.
Shellos - I think that C+ is good for Shellos because it can set up with Stockpile, and since its Eviolite can't be knocked off it becomes very irritating to kill. It even has Recover to heal and Scald to burn the opponent. I think it is a bit underwhelming before setting up though, which is why I say C+ and not higher.
Shelmet - No. Weak. D rank. Thank you. (EDIT: It was pointed out to me that it is actually a good Fighting-type check, so C- I guess. I don't know, it just looks like it sucks to me.
Snover - Well Scarf Blizzard is pretty good. Otherwise it is kinda meh. To many Fghting-types and Fletchling around. C rank it good for me.
Spritzee - Spritzee tanks hits like a boss, heals the team of status, passes Wishes to teammates, and even hits fairly hard. I think it could possibly move up A rank, but I am okay with A-. I am honestly happy with where it is and there is little discussion about it, so there is no need to expand I think.
Stunky - So people keep hyping this thing, but I am still unsure why. It's not that I don't like it, I just don't really understand what it does or even has. So it doesn't get Sucker Punch and Poison Jab, right? But it does get Defog? I don't even know. Whatever you guys want is fine.
Teddiursa - I don't really know about this one. I feel like it has potential to be okay, but I don't know enough about it to say for sure. D or C- in my opinion.
Venipede - To be honest I'm not even sure what this thing does. It looks cool though.
Zigzagoon - I think this should stay in B+. If there is nothing that can take a hit from it it will sweep, but unfortunately just about every Steel-type can take a hit and/or outspeed to KO. If it was a bit faster and could outspeed more common Pokemon without Extremespeed I would think it deserves A-, but its reliance on Extremespeed to beat faster Pokemon hinders its ability to sweep. It is still a good Pokemon that definitely deserves B+ though.
 
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Anthiese

formerly Jac
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Well I know this is kinda long, but I haven't been posting here and there have been many Pokemon talked about. Some of them I had a lot to say about, and some very little. But here is all my opinions from the last long time lol. I'll try to keep up and post as we go from now on instead haha.

And yes I know, late! Late, late, late. I got it. Thanks.

Abra - I think Abra can stay A-, but I could see A as well. It hits really hard, and pretty much every non-defensive dedicated Pokemon can not survive two hits from it. Also, it is always a mind game as to whether it is Life Orb or Focus Sash, so it can prevent opponents from setting up and sweeping just out of fear of Focus Sash. If it is Focus Sash it can stop any sweeper, no matter how set up they are, and just this ability makes it incredibly good. I could definitely see A, but A- is okay too.
Amaura - It is just weak to way to many types. It doesn't have much it can do either to give it an effective niche. It's a cool Pokemon and I like it, but it is bad. No B rank, please. C or C- rank please.
Buneary - Its ability to set up Cosmic Power and Baton Pass it to another teammate to allow it to set up is quite good. It also has Switcheroo to pass some cool harmful items to the opponent like Choice items or Assault Vest. However, it is extremely weak to all the Fighting-types running around and it doesn't offer much else.
Chespin - Hype hype. Okay you guys hyped it enough so I won't say anything really. C- please.
Chikorita - I don't really like it all the much. I always feel like GameFreak has been a little mean to Grass-types, and especially Chikorita. Not much coverage, not great support moves. If anything I think it should be D rank at best, and definitely no higher.
Cubone - Cubone is one of those Pokemon that has the potential to be great, but is let down by one stat. While it has massive Atatck due to its Thick Club, it is hindered by its dismal speed. Since it holds the Thick Club it can't hold Berry Juice or Eviolite, so it can't take many hits either (although it can take a couple weak ones on the physical side), and since it has low Speed it will often be hit before attacking. It is also let down by the prevalence of Knock Off in the tier. If its Thick Club is knocked off it becomes weak offensivly and frail defensivly, as well as being slow. If it had more Speed and could outspeed more things without being hit, I would definitely put it high up. However, I think it is suited well in C-, because it needs a great deal of support to take out faster threats and opponents with priority.
Clamperl - I have to say that this should stay in C. While if it sets up it can hit like a truck or two, it just has trouble setting up due to not having an Eviolite or Berry Juice. Also, Clamperl's strength is greatly hindered by the priority in the tier, particularly Fletchling, and lack of a priority move itself. With -1 defenses and no Eviolite, Clamperl is not going to be sticking around very long. Clamperl also suffers the same dreadful fate as Cubone as well, in that it is entirely reliant on its item. If it gets knocked off (and survives the hit lol) it becomes extremely weak for a Shell Smasher and basically useless. I think its massive Special Attack is enough to give it a place in C, but any higher would be overdoing it a bit in my opinion since it is checked by way to many Pokemon.
Cranidos - It just hits really hard, and with a Scarf it outspeed the entire unboosted meta. I think just its sheer power gives it a place in C- or B+. Not much else to say here.
Darumaka - Darumaka is very similar to Cranidos in that it spams high powered moves, and it even uses Hustle to hit extremely hard. Not many Pokemon can take and not much can take a STAB, Hustle Flare Blitz. I think that C+ suits it well, just due to the fact that accuracy lets it down along with recoil damage.
Diglett - Diglett is a great Pokemon for talking out certain threats, and I think it should be A- or B+ for this reason. It's already been discussed a lot, and while it is walled by a lot, it is great at what it does. Its great at its niche, and is a great Pokemon to pick if you need this trait.
Dwebble - When we did the A rankings I said it should be A- or even B+, and I still hold that opinion. The metagame is less hyper offense now, so suicide hazard leads aren't as good anymore, and Dweeble itself just doesn't do as well against some of the most common Pokemon. It is just meh now in my opinion.
Ferroseed - Ferroseed should be B+ or A- in my opinion, but I really think B+. It is great at getting up hazards, and it generally gets up Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes against non-Fighting-type Pokemon, but unfortunately Mienfoo is the most common lead right now and absolutely wrecks Ferroseed. It has no way to heal besides Leech Seed as well, and this really makes it vulnerable in the long run. Also, while it excels at getting up hazards, it lacks a large offensive presence. While it can hurt Ground and Rock-types, it can't do anything against other types. It becomes set up fodder, although it does have Thunder Wave to support the team. I really think moving it out of A- and into B+ is the right move for Ferroseed.
Fletchling - This has already been discussed about a lot, so I don't think there is much need for me to go into to much detail. Its high powered priority makes it really good, and I definitely think it should be at least A+. I think that it could possibly be S due to its ability to clean as long as the opponents are weakened.
Foongus - I am on board with Levi for this one. I think Foongus should definitely be A, and even A+ is not out of the realm of possibility in my mind. Foongus' access to Spore is invaluable, as sleep is so hard to counter for most teams. If you can send an opponent to sleep, you are helping one of your teammates out greatly, as it doesn't have to worry about that Pokemon checking it. And like I said, most teams can't counter sleep. The only way to is to have Spritzee, Vullaby, or a Grass-type, and in Spritzee's case the sleep isn't countered until it can get it and use Aromatherapy. Along with its valuable Spore, it is also very bulky, and its typing allows it to resist some great types like Fighting, which are everywhere. It also checks a lot of common Pokemon like Tirtouga, Magnemite, Chinchou, Carvanha, and Cottonee with its wide range of moves including Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Hidden Power [Fighting]. Add on Regenerator and Giga Drain and it has the longevity that most Pokemon only dream about. In my opinion, this bulk, ability to check a wide range of range Pokemon, and Spore make it deserving of A, and even A+ (even with Fletchling being everywhere).
Gothita - I have never seen Gothita used, nor have I used it myself, so it is kinda hard to say where it should be. It seems like it would be good, and it is similar to Diglett. So C+...? I can't really say unfortunately... :/
Hippopotas - I think it s both very good and bad at the same time. While it sets up Stealth Rocks well and sand for sand teams, it just lacks in other areas. It isn't to threatening offensively, and it becomes underwhelming defensively after having its Eviolite knocked off, which isn't hard to do with something like Mienfoo. However, it does have Slack Off which is a plus. I think B rank suits it well, as it has stuff it does, but it isn't exceptionally great at them.
Karrablast - It seems strong, but I don't really know enough about it to say...
Magnemite - I love Choice Scarf Magnemite. It is great at getting momentum by forcing switches and Volt Switching out. I also find Analytic to be a great ability because it powers up your moves as the opponent switches out. It is great to be able to outspeed some big threats and be able to KO them first. I have never used the Sturdy + Berry Juice set, but when I play against it I find it to be great as well. I think it for sure deserves the A+ rank it has.
Ponyta - Ponyta is a great Pokemon, and I think it every bit deserves to stay A-. It can take two hits from Knock Off by Pawniard, so it can just Morning Sun and fish for a Flame Body burn. Just that is a great quality in my opinion. It can use Will-O-Wisp to spread burns if you aren't happy with the 30% chance of Flame Body too. Flare Blitz hits extremely hard, and with Sunny Day it is powered up even further (including 75% healing from Morning Sun). Just the healing, burn spreading, speed, and power of Ponyta make it easily worthy of A- rank, even though it is weak to Stealth Rock.
Psyduck - It has a small niche of beating sun setters, and this is why it should be D rank. It stops them, but it does nothing else. Niche. D rank. Done.
Purrloin - Purrloin is just more irritating than anything. Prankster Thunder Wave pretty good though, and Foul Play does hit some things pretty hard. C rank in my opinion.
Sandshrew - C or C- Rank please. It is bulky and gets Knock Off over Drilbur, but otherwise it is outclassed.
Scraggy - I think A- is an appropriate rank for Scraggy. While it can sweep if set up, enough things counter or check it to prevent it from doing so. Even with a Dragon Dance Fletchling can revenge, along with other Fighting-types.
Shellos - I think that C+ is good for Shellos because it can set up with Stockpile, and since its Eviolite can't be knocked off it becomes very irritating to kill. It even has Recover to heal and Scald to burn the opponent. I think it is a bit underwhelming before setting up though, which is why I say C+ and not higher.
Shelmet - No. Weak. D rank. Thank you. (EDIT: It was pointed out to me that it is actually a good Fighting-type check, so C- I guess. I don't know, it just looks like it sucks to me.
Snover - Well Scarf Blizzard is pretty good. Otherwise it is kinda meh. To many Fghting-types and Fletchling around. C rank it good for me.
Spritzee - Spritzee tanks hits like a boss, heals the team of status, passes Wishes to teammates, and even hits fairly hard. I think it could possibly move up A rank, but I am okay with A-. I am honestly happy with where it is and there is little discussion about it, so there is no need to expand I think.
Stunky - So people keep hyping this thing, but I am still unsure why. It's not that I don't like it, I just don't really understand what it does or even has. So it doesn't get Sucker Punch and Poison Jab, right? But it does get Defog? I don't even know. Whatever you guys want is fine.
Teddiursa - I don't really know about this one. I feel like it has potential to be okay, but I don't know enough about it to say for sure. D or C- in my opinion.
Venipede - To be honest I'm not even sure what this thing does. It looks cool though.
Zigzagoon - I think this should stay in B+. If there is nothing that can take a hit from it it will sweep, but unfortunately just about every Steel-type can take a hit and/or outspeed to KO. If it was a bit faster and could outspeed more common Pokemon without Extremespeed I would think it deserves A-, but its reliance on Extremespeed to beat faster Pokemon hinders its ability to sweep. It is still a good Pokemon that definitely deserves B+ though.
i have a LOT of issues with this list.
Buneary has Encore as well as Thunder Wave, Also Agilipassing is much more effective in my opinion. Passing to like Cranidos + Cubone who have some bulk makes them much more effective in doing their jobs.

Chikorita is one of the bulkiest Grass Types with Dual Screens and semi solid recovery in Synthesis, Also the only other Magic Coat user that's Grass (Sewaddle is the other)

Cranidos should be B / B+ but im agreeing with your points.

Foongus (with its wide range of moves including Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Hidden Power [Fighting]. Add on Regenerator and Giga Drain)

Gothita is a Trapper without Recovery. Literally all it does. It can Scarf to outspeed but it's missing out on power, or it can be a bulky trapper with Eviolite + Twave.

Karrablast a.k.a. MIGHT HORN one of the most amazing scarf mons in LC with NO GUARD MEGAHORN coming off that fantastic 75atk is amazing. Has good coverage in Poison Jab / Knock Off / Drill Run. Slightly bulky enough to do shit as well. Im currently testing LO / Band + Web and it's excelling there as well.

Psyduck OHKOs Vulpix with Surf yes. Does it beat Bulky Purrloin? No.

Shellos is amazing at stopping Fighting types (not Timburr ofc) and Pawniard with Scald.

Shelmet is amazing at walling Fighting types even after losing Eviolite. And it's an amazing Spiker. Also it has access to Recover / Final Gambit / Baton Pass / Acid Armor. It's not D Rank material. It's C- material.

Stunky hits 17 Speed for one. It gets a lot of Good attacking moves like Sucker Punch / Play Rough / Pursuit and great Support moves like Taunt / Memento / Defog. The only downfalls is the illegalities with Defog + Sucker Punch + Play Rough.

Venipede is just a Spiker / Toxic Spiker with Speed Boost. That's literally it.


My other demand is that Snivy be put in D for the fact that Glare / Taunt / Knock Off / Synthesis is absolutely amazing.

Snivy has plenty of other toys to play with and i'll be sure to post on my findings.

EDIT: removing certain info
 
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Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
i have a LOT of issues with this list.
Buneary has Encore as well as Thunder Wave, Also Agilipassing is much more effective in my opinion. Passing to like Cranidos + Cubone who have some bulk makes them much more effective in doing their jobs.

Chikorita is one of the bulkiest Grass Types with Dual Screens and semi solid recovery in Synthesis, Also the only other Magic Coat user that's Grass (Sewaddle is the other)

Cranidos should be B / B+ but im agreeing with your points.

Foongus (with its wide range of moves including Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Hidden Power [Fighting]. Add on Regenerator and Giga Drain)

Gothita is a Trapper without Recovery. Literally all it does. It can Scarf to outspeed but it's missing out on power, or it can be a bulky trapper with Eviolite + Twave.

Karrablast a.k.a. MIGHT HORN one of the most amazing scarf mons in LC with NO GUARD MEGAHORN coming off that fantastic 75atk is amazing. Has good coverage in Poison Jab / Knock Off / Drill Run. Slightly bulky enough to do shit as well. Im currently testing LO / Band + Web and it's excelling there as well.

Psyduck OHKOs Vulpix with Surf yes. Does it beat Bulky Purrloin? No.

Shellos is amazing at stopping Fighting types (not Timburr ofc) and Pawniard with Scald.

Shelmet is amazing at walling Fighting types even after losing Eviolite. And it's an amazing Spiker. Also it has access to Recover / Final Gambit / Baton Pass / Acid Armor. It's not D Rank material. It's C- material.

Stunky hits 17 Speed for one. It gets a lot of Good attacking moves like Sucker Punch / Play Rough / Pursuit and great Support moves like Taunt / Memento / Defog. The only downfalls is the illegalities with Defog + Sucker Punch + Play Rough.

Venipede is just a Spiker / Toxic Spiker with Speed Boost. That's literally it.


My other demand is that Snivy be put in D for the fact that Glare / Taunt / Knock Off / Synthesis is absolutely amazing.

Snivy has plenty of other toys to play with and i'll be sure to post on my findings.

EDIT: removing certain info
So what issues do you have with the list? It seems like all you did was just repeat some things I said and explain the Pokemon that I didn't really know what they did. Thank you for explaining those Pokemon though.

I don't really understand what you're saying for Foongus or Psyduck. Like I said for Karrablast, Shelmet, Stunky, and Venipede, I didn't really know what they did so anything would be fine.
 
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