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Mismagius (Bulky)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by FlareBlitz, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Missy's current analysis

    Okay, so I was rating a team in the RMT forums recently, and it turned out that stallbreaker Mismagius fit the team really well. So I was going to go find the set on Smogon and suggest it, before quickly finding out that...it doesn't exist.

    There's a rather out of date Bulky Ghost set on-site, and this should probably replace that given that it accomplishes mostly the same things except better. Anyway...

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Ghost
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Will-o-Wisp
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Mismagius is most commonly seen as a potent sweeper, this set attempts to make use of her high Speed, precise support movepool, and excellent collection of immunities to turn her into a bulky pivot. This Mismagius functions very well as a spinblocker; she is the only spinblocker in UU who has both access to Taunt and the Speed to use it against common spinners, preventing them from using Foresight. Mismagius can also cause significant grief to stall teams, due to Will-O-Wisp inflicting constant damage to nearly everything while covering Mismagius's lackluster Defense, and Taunt blocking any attempt to heal or pseudo-haze. And finally, she makes a great initial switch-in to Fighting-types, although mispredicted switches into physical attacks such as Stone Edge will still hurt very much.</p>

    <p>This Mismagius plays very differently from more offensive variants. She can actually beat several common switch-ins that expect a more offensive set, such as Registeel and defensive Spiritomb, one-on-one. On the other hand, she needs to tread carefully against several threats that an offensive variant could steamroll, such as Arcanine and Blaziken. Ideally, Mismagius should be brought in on a move she is immune to, or on a weak special attack. She can then Taunt to prevent the opponent from using any status or set-up moves, after which she is free to burn the opponent and use Pain Split to heal herself after taking a few hits. If your opponent lacks powerful physical attackers that are faster than Mismagius or Pokemon that are immune to burn, you can repeat this cycle until the entire opposing team is thoroughly weakened. Note, however, that Pain Split will very often prove unreliable; an intelligent opponent might sacrifice a low HP Pokemon just to ensure that Mismagius cannot heal. In cases like that, you should simply switch out to preserve Mismagius's health.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A few changes can be made to this set while still preserving its purpose, but note that the set presented above is the most optimal for general use. Changes are not recommended unless you are certain that your team needs Mismagius to cover the specific niches mentioned below.</p>

    <p>The EV spread and moves can be tweaked so that this set functions more offensively. Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Fighting can be used over Pain Split with an alternate EV spread of 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe. This spread is best used on offensive teams which focus on stacking multiple layers of Spikes, as Mismagius will still serve as an excellent spinblocker against less offensively-inclined spinners while not being set-up fodder for dangerous threats like Swellow and Houndoom (both of whom she can dent on the switch with her coverage option). Note, however, that this spread is substantially frailer than the recommended spread, and the lack of Pain Split means that this version's survivability is very low compared to the primary version, particularly against stall.</p>

    <p>The set could also be taken in the other direction with a bulkier spread of 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe. This variant loses some power and a substantial amount of speed for increased special bulk, allowing Mismagius to switch into more powerful special threats. Life Orb Venusaur's Leaf Storm, for instance, drops to a 3HKO (factoring in the Special Attack reduction and Leftovers), allowing Mismagius to avoid Sleep Powder via Taunt and heal with Pain Split. The Speed EVs allow Mismagius to outrun all Venusaur and anything else in the base 80 Speed group or lower; however, due to the lower Speed this set utilizes, Mismagius loses out on the ability to counter faster Fighting-types such as Toxicroak and Hitmonlee, who now can strike first before she can burn them. Therefore, this variant should only be used with the understanding that Fighting-types are no longer dealt with as efficiently.</p>
  2. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Ahh bulky Mismagius how I missed you so. Funny how just adding Taunt > HP Fighting back than fucked with every stall team.

    Alternative EV spreads I've used are 252HP/144SpD/112Spe Calm to beat Jolly Absol, and 252HP/96SpD/160 Speed Calm to beat +Spe Base 80's. I think a bulkier spread should be mentioned because....well it's bulky Missy!
  3. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I'll insert a modified variant of the second EV spread (252 HP/160 SpD/96 Spe Timid has the exact same total points but doesn't require mentioning a nature change) into AC, thanks!
  4. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Bump, any other suggestions? I'm primarily looking for comments from QC on whether this should replace the current bulky ghost set on-site or whether it should be a separate set. I really don't see what merit the current set has over this one, but if they play significantly differently we should probably consider them two separate sets...
  5. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I remember when PK used something like this against me, but with Substitute over Shadow Ball. This allows Mismagius to scout stuff and be a dick with Sub/Pain Split. It isn't really setup fodder for Houndoom anyway, since if you're behind a Sub, just Taunt it and go to a resist. Swellow is a problem, but nothing a Stall team (Which this set usually would be seen) can't handle.
  6. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    I'm not very experienced in UU, but I think Perish Song should be mentioned somewhere, because this Missy fits nicely on semistall, and can be a nice way to handle that last Pokemon stat-upper with Perish Song over, or in conjunction with, Taunt.
  7. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    The only problem I have with Substitute over Shadow Ball is that you get beaten by dumb shit like Rotom and Alakazam and you can't do anything to any Pokemon that's immune to burns, which is quite a few Pokemon in this tier. I might mention it in AC, but AC is already getting kinda full so...I don't know. I can definitely see the appeal though.

    I can't mention Perish Song, unfortunately. Mismagius has heavy 4MSS, and Perish Song without a trapping move serves little purpose. Last Pokemon shenanigans can be handled by Taunt/Shadow Ball or WoW anyway.
  8. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    This should replace the bulky set on-site.

    A couple of things:

    -Is 80 SpA for anything? Granted, I didn't find anything particularly special that 80 SpD did.
    -Don't see how Miltank really beats this thing (unless it's through a lucky Body Slam para)

    Otherwise, looks good.

    QC Approved 1/2
  9. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    The 80 SpA guarantees the kill on Rotom 4/0 Rotom without SR (0 SpA does it around half the time), guarantees the kill on 4/0 Alakazam after SR (0 SpA does it around half the time) and nearly guarantees that you 2hko 4/0 Arcanine after SR (0 SpA does it around half the time...again). I think it's fine as-is, unless the special bulk also makes some significant difference?

    Miltank basically spams Body Slam until it procs a paralysis, then it uses Milk Drink/Curse whenever Taunt wears off, eventually using Heal Bell and then killing Missy. In common battle conditions though Missy is just going to Taunt, WoW and then gtfo, so I'm not sure if I should have that on there...
  10. franky

    franky
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    This is a great set surprised it isn't on-site yet, my simple two cents with my history on this set:

    -great set; taunt, wow, and shadow ball are great! however, this set lacks a reliable recovery move. i found pain split to be hurting me more than benefiting me. i've tested rest in the last slot and it proved to be useful on defensive-based teams moreso than bulky offensive. mismagius is a potent spin blocker with taunt but gets hurt by the likes of surf from blastoise or predicted assurance's, so a reliable recovery move is required pretty much to fulfil its spin blocking role at its best. rest will restore its health back in mint condition. with that said, the partner i had with missy was a support clefable (aromatheraphy). it has the ability to cleanse status quite easily for mismagius. it additionally provides wish support if rest isn't your cup of tea for a move. clefable draws in fighting-types; can pass the wish to mismagius easily and start inducing with wow. whether rest deserves a slash or not i think it merits a mention at the minimum.
  11. Folgorio

    Folgorio I KickTehAss
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    I had this very sexy and long post all written up and stuff but the lights in my house went off literally 10 seconds before hitting the post button...

    Anyway I really really dislike pain split... I'd much rather have something like hp ground/fighting or tbolt. The extra coverage helps a lot if you for some reason end up fighting something you shouldn't with missy (drapion/houndoom/registeel/aggron/steelix etc). I guess stall would probably prefer pain split/ rest over the coverage since they obviously want their spinblocker to last as long as possible so I'd probably only recommend the extra coverage moves to offensive teams... Even if the most common pursuiter(I think) ,houndoom, completely fucks this set... Also agreeing with franky that this set LOVES wish support so it should probably be mentioned somewhere
  12. Accipender

    Accipender

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    Just a quick question regarding HP: my experience with Pain Split is mostly with Gengar, and on him, it is recommended to not have any HP, which, in my experience helps it out by draining more HP from the opponent and refilling yours more easily. Thus, I ask why 252 HP and not split that into the two defenses to make it take hits better?
  13. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I don't get all the hate for Pain Split, it's what allows this set to function as well as it does, since without it a lot of special attackers will just keep pounding away at you until you die while not caring about burns or taunt (thinking of Milotic in particular here).

    Rest is nice, but if Taunt expires a lot of Pokemon can recover off any damage you did or switch to a pursuiter who you can no longer burn, or even worse just switch to something like Alakazam and start setting up on you. And if you try to Rest on something like Hitmontop or Blastoise, it's possible they'll escape from Taunt and Foresight you, which is never good. Not really worth it imo, I'll need more input before I put that in there.

    Thunderbolt is an option over Pain Split for more offensive sets and I mention that in the OP (actually I mention it over Will o Wisp, I'll fix that). I suppose I could also include HP Fighting/Ground.

    I'll also mention Wish support, especially from Clefable, in the teammates section.

    @ Accipender

    You raise a valid point, but increasing Missy's HP benefits its balanced defenses way more than just splitting the points, and Missy's HP is low enough that even at max it's still pretty low (hits 334 at max, while 4/0 Arcanine hits 322...) compared to many of the Pokemon it'll be facing down. However, I'd definitely be inclined to change up the spread a bit if someone can give me a spread that makes the defenses nearly as good as what it is now while minimizing the HP.

    Thanks for all the suggestions guys.
  14. whistle

    whistle
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    the classic moveset (shadow ball will o wisp pain split taunt) should be the only moveset without any slashes. this set's job is to annoy stall by blocking spin and being impossible to kill. there are more offensive variants (i.e. here - since this set will replace the "bulky ghost" set and that set will be a new set, we should make them distinct) that have similar moves, but the purpose of these sets are radically different. mentioning the "offensive" spread in the AC of this set makes no sense to me. the sdef bulkier spread works fine though if you don't need to beat the +nature 81-95s so keep that. to be clear, I think you should not mention thunderbolt, calm mind, or an offensive spread in AC - just talk about the more defensive spread.

    for the same reason, I feel like the special attack evs should go into either defense or special defense (perhaps defense since the stat is so low naturally); you don't "need" to guarantee the ohko on rotom or alakazam tbh... and staying healthy while switching into mispredicted physical attacks or after you burn something is more useful in the long run.

    re: maxing hp or not. gengar is not supposed to take any hits which is why it doesn't invest in HP. missy's base HP is so low that I don't think it is possible to get close to its current def/sdef-ive ability without investing in it. pain split is mostly for healing on walls that have very high HP who cannot damage you effectively, anyways, so i don't think it matters. some quick playing around with x-act's defense applet doesn't make me think otherwise.

    approval 2/2 and moving (too lazy to color it lol)
  15. Midniiight

    Midniiight

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    I'd like to testify to the effectiveness of this set. It really patched up a lot of probelms with a relatively good team I already had. Completely shuts down Spinners provided you avoid switching into thier anti-ghost move (Foresight, Assurance). The speed really makes this set beautiful because it outruns everything up to 95s+ I believe. Burns physical attackers than think they can set up. Taunts support moves. Even Doom has to be careful because Taunt outspeeds if it tries to NP. Totally shuts down the usual Clefable and Chansey (actually beats Chansey 1v1 because of burn). Taunts spinning Top's Foresight and burns. This thing is seriously hella useful and annoying to face. It's so useful I may never get around to testing CB Altaria.
    /Praising FlareBlitz
  16. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    The more offensive spread/the moves are basically for offensive teams to use this effectively without getting set up on by dangerous shit that you really can't risk Taunting, like Feraligatr. However, this is still a bulky set first and foremost, which is why all those changes are in AC and the set itself has no slashes and a fairly bulky EV spread. I suppose I could get rid of the mentions in AC, but I view AC as the appropriate place for "suboptimal things that could work if your team needs it but use the standard otherwise" type things so I think they work there.

    Regarding the 80 SpA EVs, I think the extra damage helps more than the extra bulk mostly just because of Arcanine; 2hkoing Arcanine on the switch as it tries to absorb a Will o Wisp is major, because otherwise it'll outstall you with Morning Sun and eventually KO. However, doing some calcs with 80 Def I'm definitely noticing a fairly significant drop in damage taken (although a lot of it doesn't matter, like going from 105% min to 93% min for a Donphan Assurance...) so I'll take that into consideration. I just feel like hitting a bit harder will make it more difficult for things that are immune to/don't care about burn to come in.
  17. Head Smash

    Head Smash

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    Uh it's pretty late, but if you're referring to Thund's posted EV spread, 96 Speed Timid isn't the same as 112 Speed Calm.
  18. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I was actually referring to his second spread. The first spread does not outrun +base 80s, which is absolutely vital.
  19. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    All right, I'm done with this. Note that it's nearly 3am, so I am very much in need of some content/grammar checks on this one.
  20. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Go to sleep Flare ...

    Also I don't know if this should be mentioned, but Rhyperior has 4x weaknesses to which powerful physical moves exist (Leaf Blade, Waterfall). Mismagius doesn't want to switch into those. Finally, after reading the analysis I don't quite see why it's named "stallbreaker". The analysis spends more time talking about how the set cripples Fighting types and so on than how it breaks stall.

    PS: Mismagius is female?
  21. TAY

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    Just posting to say that I used a similar set ages ago and found it incredibly successful. I would strongly recommend moving the SpAtk EVs to SpDef; with only one attacking move, it seems like survivability should be prioritized over a couple of possible KOs. This set should be trying to stay alive as long as possible, not boosting its special attack to score more KOs.
  22. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Thank you Bandeon. I made many of your changes; however, on my editor, the "double spaces" did not show up, so I just ignored that part. If other members also notice them I'll just copy/paste a GP checker's correction into my post, which will hopefully fix it.

    Tay, other QC members have also suggested this, but I am very hesitant to give up the 2hko on offensive Arcanine. At any rate this seems to be a popular suggestion, so if one more member weighs and states that they believe the EVs are better off in Def or SpD I'll make the change. Thank you for your input :)
  23. Heysup

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    I think the SpA EVs are very useful, specifically for Arcanine (who loves switching in otherwise) and general spread damage. I think this set also needs to be renamed "Bulky Ghost" or something. Anyway...

    [​IMG]
  24. Draco Zephyr

    Draco Zephyr

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    Grammar-Prose Check 1/2:
    additions in bold
    removals in red
    comments in green
    Content errors &amp; advice (open)

    Hi FB, nice analysis and great set! Just a few issues dealing with Pokegrammar:

    1) The coined terms "wallbreaker," "stallbreaker," and "spinblocker" are neither hyphenated nor capitalized. (note: this doesn't mean that ALL coined terms are not hyphenated / capitalized, just those three)

    2) You have a tendency to lapse into the future tense during your writing. For example, take this paragraph:
    Try to keep tenses a little more consistent.

    3) It's Will-O-Wisp, not Will-o-Wisp.

    4) Avoid abbreviations unless specifically mentioned before. For example, in Team Options, you listed CB Aggron, which had never been mentioned before in the analysis. So, you would say Choice Band Aggron, because it's the first time you're mentioning it.

    Withholding stamp until changes are implemented. Nice job!


    EDIT: Changes made, so:

    [​IMG]
  25. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Thank you for the grammar check and the advice, Draco Zephyr! I have implemented your changes :)

    Still need one more GP check.

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