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Discussion in 'Ubers' started by calze6, Jan 20, 2011.
Yes, sir, and if you BP to someone with White Herb... Guess what.
lol so by this logic SR and spikes and toxic spikes should be bannable because you need to pack an obscure, rare move like rapid spin (seriously there are only like 6 worthwhile spinners in the whole game :/ and SR alone makes half of the FE pokemon in the game unusable in OU/Ubers)
I wouldn't mind a moody clause, but it's ridiculously easy to counter, there are so many ways to counter it:
Power / Guard Swap
Not hard to plan a team that has one of these moves on someone bulky. Seriously. And they're good even if your enemy lacks a moody pokemon.
Really...have you ever played moody teams? You realize all of the moves you stated have accuracy, and can miss once evasion is boosted. This coupled with the fact that many of the moves stated have no effect on subs/don't phaze through it.
Also if you DO use the ones that actually 'work' against Moody you're going to be 6-5 against ANY non-moody team.
If I see
In ubers, it means one thing and one thing only: they have moody. If they don't, who cares?
Thus, when you see someone with Moody your response should be:
Switch to bulky user of WW/Roar.
Okay, got that? Now, the chance of your opponent getting evasion boost is 1/7. If you don't already have someone out with WW/roar, your opponent has a 15% chance of getting an evasion boost on turn one, then another 15% chance on turn 2. Odds are, unless your opponent gets 2 consecutive evasion boosts (2.04% chance), roar/ww is fairly likely to hit.
Now, it can all go wrong, but you're playing pokemon. You do realize that a lot of matches go to hell all just from a few lucky crits or something right? So accept those moody losses like any other.
And I'm pretty sure Psych Up goes through a sub though I don't have the means to check at the moment. Haze doesn't I don't think, but it's easy to pack dragon tail on some bulky dragon type in ubers. Real easy. So do it.
??? You think I liked using Donphan in UU GenIV? Packing someone with something like roar does not make you 6-5 - don't even joke. Especially not in ubers.
Moody is the same as SR as far as I'm concerned. You can deal with it.
I'm not against a clause for it, since it is a bit too random and some people may hate playing against it. Amd it does piss me off when protect works three times in a row. But to outright ban it like it's that powerful? No thanks.
Also, maybe I wasn't reading the logs right, but yesterday, I switched into my Role Playing Latias against a Smeargle who protected that turn. Guess what happened? lol Role Play still copied his move through protect (though I can't remember if it was after he tried protecting a second time or not) and I proceeded to sweep his team with it, ofc it's not always going to turn out that way, but there are some creative strategies yet to be discovered, is my point (and Role Play is never useless - there are so many awesome things you can roleplay in ubers besides moody)
While we're at it, there are also Perish Song and Ghost-Curse!
Some of those things listed work temporarily, but a big problem is that Moody Pokemon can attack you/status you while you use one of those moves. To take on a Moody Pokemon properly, you need a way to consistently damage it. For instance, it helps a ton to have Toxic Spikes on the field. When you Whirlwind/Roar (hoping it connects, assuming you are not taunted) and inflict Poison, its days are numbered. That being said, there are many things that can go wrong, such as there being a spinner/t-spikes absorber. Thunder in the rain and Aura Sphere are good for breaking your opponent's subs, but they can still ruin your day if they have a sub up and are faster. If your opponent knows what they are doing, Moody users (if not Moody itself) can still be your worst nightmare even if you prepare for them. This is especially true now that Moody Smeargle is a reality.
Toxic Spikes does help a lot actually, more than all those other shit that was suggested by the man who does not know anything. However, a carefully planned substitute can ruin your plans. Smeargle, imo, changes the playing field completely.
Smeargle just needs some Speed passed onto it, a Shell Smash from something like Gorebyss is excellent if you can get a sub to pass over to Smeragle. It has decent enough defenses, and can Swift Swim. Now that the torch has been passed to Smeargle, he can then proceed to Spore, and set up a sub from there, and get to work on the Quiver Dances. At the worst case scenerio, he has +4 boosts when he jumps out, and +4 more to that if he gets a Quiver Dance in, making Stored Power a real doozy to anyone that does not resist it. If a T-tar comes in afterwards, BP all those wonderful boosts to someone else capable of dealing multiple threats, hmmm...!
Alternatively, T-Wave Support can be used in order to slow them down. Groudon is excellent candidate as a Supporter, for it can make Sun, the least popular choice for weather so there is no worry for SSwim that can outrun you, but more importantly, getting rid of the cursed sand that will threaten Smeargle's longevity and his role in the field.
Did we implement Sleep Clause into our uber ladder, since if we don't, you can see how stupid it is with a Smeargle like that.
Sleep clause is implemented in ubers... In my experience in ubers taunt mewtwo destroyed moody and caused lots of switches with them although I do admit the 3/7 (theopponent always gets 3 chances to boost evasion before being taunted if switching in taunter...)chance that evasion will increase during the turn can be annoying... Trick room could let a moody user with a speed boost without a sub and no evasion boost be forced to switch or die (if the protect is predicted)... I haven't tried to but is it possible to set up on a setting up moody user (octillery and glaile) and stall their attacks out of pp (most calm mind users have pressure bulkup dialga for bidoof/ bibareal). If luck is factored a person can try to reflect spore via magic coat but if something with aurasphere is out on smeargle on the turn it's out it's pretty much screwed either way...
24 HP / 232 Def / 252 Spe
-Taunt / Spore
Smeargle is awesome with paralysis support. If Smeargle gets a sub up, it can just go to town. Shell Smash is reliable and lets Smeargle pass away boosts that are actually good. Speaking of which, Dialga, Giratina-O and Ho-Oh are fantastic receivers of Baton Pass due to their Toxic Spikes immunities and notable offensive presence. Give Dialga or Ho-Oh a White Herb for even more fun!
^Shouldn't that Smeargle also be carrying stored power?
Could ingrain be used over shell smash? Being able to start a longer cycle of moody raises seems better in my opinion then +2 in all offensive stats.
I've seen Ingrain on Smeargle, it certainly helps but ultimately to me it's just leftovers recovery (I don't rely on Roar/WW to beat Moody, I use Thunder in the Rain from Gira-O) But yeah Ingrain is viable, personally I still like Shell Smash as it gives that vital guarantee that Smeargle will get his speed up, letting him sub up more and more, I'd probably slash it where spore is (para support is the better way to support Smeargle, the more hax, the merrier!)
On the subject of counters, Focus and I had a discussion on Sub+CM Gira-O either Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere or Thunder/other hit most passers and their recipients hard I feel like Aura-Sphere/Thunder is the ultimate Moody counter, but usually you'll want D-pulse for other dragons.....
Guys, there is a simple method that can stop any Moody, or even set up sweeper. Red card @ Sturdy. I use it all the time, and it works a treat.
Send in Forry whilst they're Protecting/Subbing. Lay down some entry hazards, TOXIC SPIKES ESPECIALLY, and then just use Rapid Spin until they eventually decide to attack. No matter how powerful they are, whatever move they use will get you down to Sturdy, and then Red Card will activate, sending the next one out. Any time a new one comes out, they'll get Toxic poisoned by the TS, so that means they are going to have to attack. pack a spin-blocker just in case, bob's your uncle.
I literally laugh when I see a Moody team.
Doesnt stop poison arceus from absorbing tspikes, sorry. And before you go 'lol poison arceus' please keep in mind your moody check is a Red Card forry.
It's a one-trick pony.
And Poison Arceus is actually decent in Ubers. Despite the weird STAB it does wall Fighting-types well, so eh.
I am really sad that the only "discussion" going on in the Ubers section of Dragonspiral Tower is about how we should ban something from Ubers...
Look, Moody has counters. Taunt Mewtwo, most mons @ Focus Sash, Dragon Tail Giratina. It's something to prepare for. Remember, Moody takes dozens of turns to work. Yeah, Moody Smeargle sucks, so use Roar. Whirlwind. Hell, use a Wide Lens if you need to hit. Use Hone Claws on Rayquaza instead of Dragon Dance or Swords Dance. Just because you have to edit ONE of your Pokemon to counter it doesn't mean it needs a ban. It just makes the Ubers Threat List a little bigger.
Skramory lols at Moody because of Sturdy, Giratina's pretty bulky and gets Dragon Tail and Roar. So is Lugia. If your team is Moody weak then patch up your team to counter it. None of the Moody users are bulky and only Octillery has passable attacking stats. Taunt completely neutralizes Moody.
In OU, if your team is Scizor weak, you add in a Magnezone. In Ubers, if your team is Moody weak, you ban it? I see a little discrepancy here. P.S. Moody has like 3% usage...
I COULD rehash the SAME stuff that's been said multiple times in the thread but that gets boring so...
EVERYTHING you mentioned that is actually reliable(note nothing you said is actually reliable) is available in OU RIGHT NOW. You have 100% accurate Thunders thanks to DrizzleToad and you have Skarmory. You still have Most Mons@Focus Sash and speedy Taunt users. So since you have no problem with it in ubers perhaps you'd have no problem with it in OU again? After all you have the same tools available. I thought not. The only difference between what OU has available and what Ubers has available is that Ubers has a stigma of don't ban anything despite the fact that WE ALREADY DO.
Additionally, just because something is uncommon or even extremely rare doesn't mean it isn't equally broken.
WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Policy review is finally doing something about this.
... i dunno why, but i suddenly have an urge to find someone willing to do this with me: two teams of all-out Moody users, and see who wins, JUST for the hell of it.... however, i agree: this ability is EXTREMELY broken....
Party is over folks. We have been given the green light from Reachzero to ban Moody. As soon as Rising_Dusk feels like programming it Moody will be gone from ubers! (please don't pester him he's very busy and I've already told him about it)
edit: its done.