Most Disappointingly Weak NPC

After just having finished a Yellow Nuzlocke, I have to say that there's one questionable thing about the Elite Four: Why does Bruno have two Onix? Hell, why does he even have one? Bruno is a member of the revered Elite Four, why would he have one of the least threatening Pokemon of RBY on his team? The thing has the same base Atk as a Pidgey >_>.
I never understood why he never had a Primeape. In fact, a team of Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Primeape/Poliwrath/Machamp would have been much more fitting. It makes sense: he specializes in Fighting-types, so he should have all five of the only fully-evolved Fighting-types.
same reason as giovanni

for all of onix's shitty stats it does look more intimidating than primeape and poliwrath imo (badass-looking rock snake versus raging monkey and uh... frog? yeah i'd grab onix). i guess they just went for the intimidating factor (you'd probably be intimidated too by a guy with stretchable legs, something that can punch your head off, and someone with four arms)
Have to agree with the shadow triad. They were extremely disappointing as they were built up to be powerful with super human abilities. Instead they had weak Pokemon and were gimmick battles (triple battle and rotation)
Bugsy, in GSC and HGSS.

Ahem. Rock type.

Also, what's the deal with having Metapod and Kakuna?
I know. Should have had Butterfree and Beedrill.

Butterfree Lv.15
Stun Spore
Sleep Powder

Beedrill Lv.15
Fury Attack
Poison Sting
String Shot

Butterfree's remade is actually decent, while Beedrill sucks because Lv.20 Beedrill with Twineedle at that point seems unfair.


I'll be your 1-Up girl
is a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Falkner in both GSC and HGSS. Mud-Slap is horrible in his GSC incarnation, but at least he has Roost in Gen IV. Trade Onix absolutely demolishes him, and it only costs a Bellsprout.

EDIT: Luvdisc'd
Actually Falkner was anything but a disappointment. If anything, he was one of the most disappointingly strong NPC's. Mud Slap is the reason he is so annoying in GSC. In HGSS, Roost Pidgeotto is really really realllllly annoying to take down even with Geodude. I also do not know why you have great expectations for the first gym leader in a region.....
Actually Falkner was anything but a disappointment. If anything, he was one of the most disappointingly strong NPC's. Mud Slap is the reason he is so annoying in GSC. In HGSS, Roost Pidgeotto is really really realllllly annoying to take down even with Geodude. I also do not know why you have great expectations for the first gym leader in a region.....
I guess it's just that I rolled through him in my experience. As far as my expectations, I guess it was just me being cocky about always having beaten him easily.
Anyone think Karen in GSC is dissapointing.

~ Sand-Attack
~ Faint Attack
~ Mean Look
~ Confuse Ray

I'll give this guy a pass because its Umbreon, and ingame. But the rest of her team?

Karen's Vileplume:
~ Stun Spore
~ Petal Dance
~ Acid
~ Moonlight

Vileplume having Acid is like Blue's Arcanine having Ember...just no. Here's what I woulda used.

~ Sleep Powder
~ Swords Dance
~ Sludge Bomb
~ Giga Drain

Karen's Mukrow
~ Faint Attack
~ Pursuit
~ Whirlwind
~ Quick Attack

Pursuit is useless since the game gives a free switching option, and phasing is dumb too since its not bulky.

How I woulda done Murkow:
~ Drill Peck
~ Faint Attack
~ Steel Wing
~ Quick Attack

Karen's Gengar:
~ Lick
~ Spite
~ Curse
~ Destiny Bond

Gengar is my favourite Pokemon, so I find this offensive.

How I woulda done Gengar:
~ Ice Punch
~ Psychic
~ Thunderbolt
~ Fire Punch

Karen's Houndoom:
~ Pursuit
~ Crunch
~ Flamethrower
~ Roar

Same as Murkrow to be honest, don't see the point of phasing and Pursuit in-game.

My version of Houndoom:
~ Sunny Day
~ Crunch
~ Flamethrower
~ SolarBeam

Coulda been an epic battle, but held back by her Pokemons lame movesets.


is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Super Moderator
Nah, Karen is pretty annoying. That Umbreon just does not die, and Houndoom is really scary. Also don't really see why we need to "recommend" better sets, I think we know by now that in-game sets are crap by now and we ~* competitive *~ players can do better?
Yeah, probably playing competitive has spoiled us. Before I discovered Smogon I remember running Thunder/Thundershock/Thunder Wave/Thunderbolt Pikachu in Yellow.
Generally, it seems Gamefreak doesn't make ingame too difficult for newer gamers who do not understand the mechanics (or most likely never heard of them). On the other hand, veteran players, like most people on smogon are, will find the ingame to be quite easy. I remember that it took me quite some time to establish the difference between special attack and attack, because I did never notice the special or physical symbols for the attacks (gen 4 was my first gen). Most likely, new people won't know these things either. I remember my first battle against gardenia and me insisting to beat her with grotle. It really isn't that smart a choice actually.

This counts for most things actually: physical / special split, move effectiveness (the not so obvious ones, water-grass-fire is logical, while things like dark-ghost-psychic are more difficult to fond out), even stab would take a while.

A well, most people I know that play a new game will look in the Internet for information on the game anyway, unlike me back then.

edit: one more thing which might be a little difficult for newer players is finding out the typing of new pokemon you encounter (instead of looking it up on the Internet)
I did remember thinking water being super-effective against steel back then.

it does make sense though since water is a component in rusting steel, which cripples them and hence steel is weak to water. the fact that water gun hits Aron super-effectively only served to reinforce that...
The elite four and champion in emerald, shockingly easy. I didn't even have Rayquaza! I had 2 attacking pokemon, with one of them severely underleveled (Castform) but decided to use since my Sceptile would probably need some back-up. I didn't even know there was an extremely easy ice trainer.

First of is Sidney. His Crawdaunt knows swords dance and a special attack. A special attack on Crawdaunt is poor anyway! Besides, his other 2 attacks, strength and facade, can't hit a ghost at all. But all I needed was leaf blade from sceptile! He then had Mightyena, with the annoying but easily riddable sand attack (yes, the move Pidgey knows at the start) and roar of all moves. His Cacturne doesn't know spikes, nor do any of his other pokemon, why the hell do you want roar!? Crunch is actually pretty damn good STAB, and double edge is pretty good as well, although it was also his downfall, since after sustaining a large (ish) amount of damage from double edge, and seeing my leaf blade not quite get it past 50%, I switched to a HM slave and let it faint, giving Mightyena some large (ish) recoil, but enough for it to fall to one more leaf blade. We then have Shiftry. Hey, Sidney, ever heard of STAB? Shiftry's only move that does any damage is extrasensory, which doesn't get STAB, and also uses the weaker stat (though not by much) of attack and special attack. He then has Swagger, annoying, avoidable, double team, annoying, but what help is not getting hit when you are doing measly damage to my own pokemon? And then, Torment. WTF!? Torment!??!!? On an elite four member in generation 3 that is beyond horrible... Cacturne, while not giving me trouble because my Castform had ice beam (via TM) which actually 3HKO'd him, (because of Castform being level 36-39, can't quite remember) in which he used: Ingrain first, then leech seed and then, finally needle arm. Which did 50% at best on Castform... Absol was good. Absol was the best pokemon in the elite four, period.

Ok, Phoebe was by far the best member of the elite four easily. But, goind by the scenery in the room, she was going to be either dark or ghost, I thought gamefreak would have to be more than completely and utterly stupid to put 2 of the same type in the same elite four, so I decided ghost and put Castform in the top left of my party because of it's normal typing. I thought it would be mad if Phoebe didn't have one type that wasn't ghost on her team, but I doubted a fighting type, and after the exp. he got from the last match he was now somewhere like level 39, so I thought he could take a pretty hard hit. Plus, I'd taght him shdow ball via TM before that as well (the set was flamethrower, ice beam, shadow ball and thunderbolt for some good coverage on the team) The battle began, and I was right, Dusclops appeared, the lowest-leveled one, you know, the one without an attacking move outside of the ghost type! XD He used confuse ray, and while my first thought was 'oh ****' my mood got better when I saw the shunk of damage that shadow ball did. From a third to a half of the damage on dusclops. Dusclops used protect next time, and I hit myself in confusion, and then he used curse the next turn, but Castform hit it with shadow ball and managed a crit, taking it down easily. My mind was thinking good things at that point in time, but I switched to Sceptile in the break to get rid of his confusion. She sent out one of her Banettes (the attacking one) and I was glad I switched when it used Psychic. No offense, but Psychic was crap... 2HKO with leaf blade. I'll actually asses this Banette, saying that while it has good coverage, it doesn't actually hit a lot of pokemon super-effectively. It had thunderbolt to hit water, flying and steel types. Psychic for the poison and then shadow ball for the ghosts and psychics. It missed all of the starters (mudkip gains ground typing, making thunderbolt useless) as well as a saddening amount of others. It didn't even hit rock super-effectively, which is quite a feat for a pokemon based on coverage... I switched back to Castform and she sent out Sableye. I immediately knew that Sableye had a part-dark typing and would probably have a dark attack, but knowing that the best attack, crunch, was incompatible with Sableye gave me the conclusion of the weak bites or faint attacks. I was right, and when it let off a faint attack I was glad as I burnt it with flamethrower. Sableye saw the danger and double teamed, but flamethrower hit again and Sableye could see red. He clutched on to the last strands with the burn's damage. Then, it tried another double team, and a I used a final flamethrower to finish it off it missed. Not that it mattered, because the burn got it down before you could say 'burnt tomatoes'! Then she sent out her other Banette, sporting a set of grudge, will-O-wisp, faint attack and shadow ball. I used shadow ball, he used Will-O-wisp, I used shadow ball again, he used grudge. Now here was a decision, the 2 shadow balls had him seeing red, but which move should I get rid of? Instead of using a move, I switched to an HM slave, Banette used grudge again, and my Wingull use surf on Banette after he used a final grudge, fainting it. Obviously I switched wingull out as she switched in her final pokemon, a dsuclops, however instead of sending out Castform whom I'd had so much victory with that battle, I sent out Sceptile. I thought that having only 1 pokemon on a team in the elite four with a move outside of 2 types, this time ghost and dark, however easy the battle so far would have been absurd, and I correctly predicted this as her dusclops doesn't even have a dark type attack! Ice beam, shadow ball, rock slide and earthquake. Well, I didn't know the set at the time, nor did I know about the menacing ice beam, so as Sceptile used leaf blade and she used ice beam, and ad Sceptile was actually knocked into the orange (not quite red, but closer to that than yellow) and leaf balde didn't do half I was stuck with a decision. I could either use another leaf blade, but sack Sceptile, or switch to a HM slave, knocking him down but giving me a free (ish) switch to castform, who could hopefully KO it with shadow ball. I chose the latter, switching to Zigzagoon, he used Ice beam, Zigzagoon fainted and castform was sent out. Shadow ball knocked Dusclops dead as he clung on, because she randomly switched to rock slide, possibly looking for flinch hax. It didn't work, dusclops was down and we'd won! As I said first, the hardest battle in the E4, but not KO'ing a single pokemon (other than a HM slave...) still makes her a bit crap! :D

Glacia. Glacia Glacia Glacia. Ho are you an elite four member? I hav a grass type on my team, obviously making me worried as I walked into the room littered with Ice. I later decided it was no big deal, she'll probably have quite a lot of part water types I can hit hard with neutral leaf blades, and castform knows flamethrower. Nevertheless, I walked in there, max revives ready (what a waste of cash)... She sent out Sealeo, oh goody! Thunderbolt + Sealeo = Fainted. Basically, it was a OHKO, and due to Sealeo's abysmal speed, and Castform's ton out EXP from almost sweeping Phoebe one-handedly Castform could outspeed and OHKO her. Then she sent out... Sealeo! Oh for god sake!!! hAven't you learnt your lesson!? Anyway, another thunderbolt got rid of that and she sent out... Glalie! Oh goody, not a seal. Glalie actually has some good defenses and it took me 2 flamethrowers to get it down. In the turn though, it used Hail. Hoorah! At the end of the turn, the first damage happened to Castform. Some hail. Anyway, she sent out another Glalie, and I was beginning to wander if the last pokemon was also a sealeo or Glalie, since that was all that she had thrown at me so far. Glalie went down to one flamethrower due to being 2 levels lower than the last. Then she brought out the big guns. Walrein, go! Anyway, I decided that I could 4HKO Walrein at best, but it was an ice type, Sceptile couldn't be switched in! So, after having a much larger panic than I needed. I used thunderbolt and it paralyzed Walrein. WooHoo! That, coupled with the amazing amount of damage it did, a third to half once again really brightened my day. In that turn though, Walrein used sheer cold. LOL. It didn't hit, shockingly. Anyway, I used thunderbolt again and it ended up a crit, so I'd won and happily collected my winnings and crap-load of Exp for Castform and walked onto Drake, revered Dragon specialist.

Drake. You do not like ice, period. He sent out Shelgon. Who I ice beamed to death. He sent out Flygon. Ice beam. Gone. Salamence, didn't fall immediately to ice beam though. He used dragon claw, ripping over half of Castform's HP! Anyway, I used ice beam and he got frozen (score!) so I ice beamed again next time, and got rid of it. he then sent out Altaria, who outsped Castform and used... Dragon dance. Ice beam and Altaria was gone. Kingdra, the dragon of nightmares. I switched to my more leveled up Sceptile, fearing an ice beam. I instead got... smokescreen. That is the first bliddy move that cyndaquil learns. Anyway, I used leaf blade, which did half on Kingdra. Kingdra then used dragon dance. So, he then outsped me, with... Surf. That is not very effective and wasn't even boosted by dragon dance!!! Anyway, I took it down with another leaf blade, and moved on, on to the revered champion.

Hey! Wallace, you're that stupidly easy gym leader from Ruby and Sapphire! How the hell did you get to be champion with that crappy team!? Anyway, I'll just live with it, and kill him. Recognizing him instinctively from ruby and Sapphire as a water gym leader, I assumed he would be water type here as well, so I switched to Sceptile. He was right, and I leaf bladed Wailord to get rid of it. He sent out Whiscash. I used leaf blade. Now, I switched to Castform when he sent out Gyarados and thunder-bolted him, just because I could. He answered this with Ludicolo, I decided to keep Castform in, and use flamethrower. It did about half on him, as he used leech seed. ... Anyway, another flamethrower got rid of it. After that, when he sent out Milotic, I switched and got rid of it with a leaf blade. Strangely enough he kept a Tentacruel of all things 'til last, but I switched to Castform and thunder-bolted it down. There you go. Easy.

I didn't go into as much detail with the last three as I did with Sidney and Pheobe, because, frankly, what I wrote is all you need to know as to why they are bad. The first 2 would actually have been a challenge to a less-experienced player than I, but I fail to see how the last three could be... Anyway, that is my guide on how bad the Hoenn league is (though it is my favorite generation, don't get me wrong) and I hope you enjoyed the read!

Edit: I'll join in with the conversation though, saying that I too always though water was super-effective on steel, this time because of Steelix. And going with what Present, I thought that Crawdaunt was a water and steel types all the way until a year or so ago. It didn't help that my main move of attack were fighting type attacks on him! It was mainly his design though, it just made me (and still does) think of steel...
I thought Water was SE on Steel as well.

My main problem with RSE is that my team was under leveled before I got to the E4. I just beat Wallace in Ruby, and my whole team is only 37. Urgh, I'll see how I can grind them.


aka Swamp-Rocket
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, the E4 in RSE is a very suprisingly high level in that game. After Wallace, you have seen you're first Level 45 Pokemon or something, you probably have a bunch of Pokemon in their 40s because Wallace/Juan isn't that hard (not super easy, but I didn't struggle), but when you get to Victory Road the wild Pokemon are all of a sudden similarly leveled as you. That was ridiculous to me, and while the E4 wasn't that hard at the proper level, getting to the proper level is actually pretty challenging, and moreover, it takes such a long time...


Robot from the Future
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
I did remember thinking water being super-effective against steel back then.

it does make sense though since water is a component in rusting steel, which cripples them and hence steel is weak to water. the fact that water gun hits Aron super-effectively only served to reinforce that...
This was reinforced in my head because of Jasmine's Steelix being weak to Quagsire's Surf... because I didn't attempt to use water on the Magnemites for some reason...

I always found the jump between RSE E4 and the 8th gym to be quite high.... not as stupid as DPPt though.

Just to stay on topic, I always thought Pryce was a joke in GSC. Dunno if he has been mentioned.
It's not a major character, but there's that guy, on Village Bridge, in B2W2.

It has a Durant (not important, K.Oed by any potent fire attack) Lucario with ONLY Bonemerang/Bone Rush (not sure which) and Quick Guard.
Destroyed it with a Tranquill/Unfezant I kept just to be a Fly slave.

Also, sexiest gym leader is Skyla.