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Most Disappointingly Weak NPC
- Thread starter Chou Toshio
- Start date
Black 2/White 2 League.
E4 has 4 Pokes each, all of them fall to simple type advantage and then comes Champion who has one good Pokemon - Haxorus. I lost Starmie only because I didn't put Expert Belt on her.
I battled trainers with 55 lvs all the time just before E4 so my whole five-man team was 60-64, E4 should be significantly stronger than random guys.
I wouldn't be so harsh on Red/Blue trainers as they had level up moves - just that. Nevertheless Arcanine was laughable with his Ember, I have to admit.
Alder disappointed me in BW. E4 was really strong back then, had great covarage etc. but Alder... The only one who fell to Samurott's Swords Dance sweep. He is definitely the weakest memeber of BW Pokemon League.
No Ice moves = hard battle
Ice move = easy sweep (Charizard and Aerodactyl get drowned by Surf which is on every team).
E4 has 4 Pokes each, all of them fall to simple type advantage and then comes Champion who has one good Pokemon - Haxorus. I lost Starmie only because I didn't put Expert Belt on her.
I battled trainers with 55 lvs all the time just before E4 so my whole five-man team was 60-64, E4 should be significantly stronger than random guys.
I wouldn't be so harsh on Red/Blue trainers as they had level up moves - just that. Nevertheless Arcanine was laughable with his Ember, I have to admit.
Alder disappointed me in BW. E4 was really strong back then, had great covarage etc. but Alder... The only one who fell to Samurott's Swords Dance sweep. He is definitely the weakest memeber of BW Pokemon League.
No. Battles in first Gens were hard only because we were 10yos without Internet. Almost every single Veteran in Gen V poses bigger threat than any trainer in first Gens. Superior Pokemon, movesets, stats and AI.
It's simple:
No Ice moves = hard battle
Ice move = easy sweep (Charizard and Aerodactyl get drowned by Surf which is on every team).
Looking back, yeah Lance in GSC did suck as a Champ.
Hmm, if I were to revamp Lance in GSC...I'd give one gamesharked move per Pokemon seeing as he already Reflect Dragonite in GSC.
Gyarados:
~ Flail
~ Rain Dance -> Aeroblast
~ Surf -> Hydro Pump
~ Hyper Beam
Well, I mean Gyarados never had the best movepool in Gen 2, but gamesharking would have been hilarious. Also forget about Rain Dance, just go straight for Hydro Pump for sheer power.
Charizard:
Wing Attack
Flamethrower
Slash -> ThunderPunch
Hyper Beam
Pretty decent set, only thing I don't like is Slash due to not having the critical hits anymore. ThunderPunch in there for his gameshark move.
Aerodactyl:
Wing Attack
Rock Slide
AncientPower -> Earthquake
Hyper Beam
Doubler Rock STAB is silly.
For the Dragonites.
Physical Dragonite:
~ Wing Attack
~ Cross Chop (His Gamesharked move)
~ Thunder Wave
~ Hyper Beam
Special Dragonite:
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt
~ Thunder Wave
~ Hyper Beam
Mixed Dragonite:
~ Double-Edge
~ Fire Blast
~ Outrage
~ Hyper Beam
Hmm, if I were to revamp Lance in GSC...I'd give one gamesharked move per Pokemon seeing as he already Reflect Dragonite in GSC.
Gyarados:
~ Flail
~ Rain Dance -> Aeroblast
~ Surf -> Hydro Pump
~ Hyper Beam
Well, I mean Gyarados never had the best movepool in Gen 2, but gamesharking would have been hilarious. Also forget about Rain Dance, just go straight for Hydro Pump for sheer power.
Charizard:
Wing Attack
Flamethrower
Slash -> ThunderPunch
Hyper Beam
Pretty decent set, only thing I don't like is Slash due to not having the critical hits anymore. ThunderPunch in there for his gameshark move.
Aerodactyl:
Wing Attack
Rock Slide
AncientPower -> Earthquake
Hyper Beam
Doubler Rock STAB is silly.
For the Dragonites.
Physical Dragonite:
~ Wing Attack
~ Cross Chop (His Gamesharked move)
~ Thunder Wave
~ Hyper Beam
Special Dragonite:
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunderbolt
~ Thunder Wave
~ Hyper Beam
Mixed Dragonite:
~ Double-Edge
~ Fire Blast
~ Outrage
~ Hyper Beam
I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned much before, but Giovanni in RBY and FRLG. Especially the latter, why did they replace his Rhydon with another Rhyhorn?
It's so disappointing, most of his team is really slow (apart from Dugtrio who's weak both offensively and defensively), and you just OHKO everything with Surf. Lt. Surge and Blaine were always ridiculously easy too. You don't even have to try. At least the Persian in Yellow was a bit more interesting.
RBY gym leaders did tend to have much stronger teams, but often their Pokemon knew just their normal level-up moves (maybe + the TM the gym leader gives you), and the AI is stupid, almost seeming like it just uses random moves. In the later generations, at least the AI and movesets are better (they generally use the strongest move against you, and sometimes even switch Pokemon), but the levels are really low.
There are sometimes in-game battles I find difficult, but usually it's just too easy. A mixture of the high levels from Pokemon Yellow (battling L.50 Pokemon at gym 5 is more like it), and the more intelligent AI with better movesets from the later games would be good.
GSC was the easiest of all, especially the Kanto section. I'm glad they made it more difficult for HGSS.
It's so disappointing, most of his team is really slow (apart from Dugtrio who's weak both offensively and defensively), and you just OHKO everything with Surf. Lt. Surge and Blaine were always ridiculously easy too. You don't even have to try. At least the Persian in Yellow was a bit more interesting.
RBY gym leaders did tend to have much stronger teams, but often their Pokemon knew just their normal level-up moves (maybe + the TM the gym leader gives you), and the AI is stupid, almost seeming like it just uses random moves. In the later generations, at least the AI and movesets are better (they generally use the strongest move against you, and sometimes even switch Pokemon), but the levels are really low.
There are sometimes in-game battles I find difficult, but usually it's just too easy. A mixture of the high levels from Pokemon Yellow (battling L.50 Pokemon at gym 5 is more like it), and the more intelligent AI with better movesets from the later games would be good.
GSC was the easiest of all, especially the Kanto section. I'm glad they made it more difficult for HGSS.
When I beat Ghetsis on Black 2, I used two Pokémon - my Serperior and my Unfezant. I came prepared for a long battle, with 50 Hyper Potions and 50 Full Heals, but only used one. I had used around 20 trying to beat Colress, even with Flygon (stupid Sturdy Magneton and Magnezone).
Guys it's a game for freaking kids. Sure adults can play but it's a kid's game first. If they make everything hard no kid would want to play the game and gamefreak and Nintendo would lose money because kids don't want to play a game they can't beat and to them these challenges are epic and grand. Just because you guys over level and over-prepare and get good items. I know some people's ideas here are good but most of you want to make these games unbeatable for the prime audience. So I think most of the ideas here would just break the core essence of Pokemon. And no I'm no kid I'm a adult.
I understand BlackFrostHeeho, but they add a challenge mode, but it's hard to "use it"
I'm going to have to join the bandwagon that Roxie sucks, and I DIDN'T use Magnemite. The first time, I swept her team with a Koffing. Although I had to use a Potion it was still pretty pathetic. It only got easier the second time. I beat her with a Level 17 Venipede using Rollout. Absolutely pathetic.
Honestly if you want to get any challenge out of Roxie, you pretty much have to start with challenge mode on cause her only actual threat is not present in normal mode.
The entire pacing of the second gen games was always on the weak side in my opinion. it seems like after you finish Whitney they next 5 gyms and the league right after have very small level differences. Starting the league with 40s and finishing with a single 50 dragonite is just not high enough. I was expecting higher levels because of how the levels were done in red and blue, but the only real jump in that game was from Lance to Red. They should have just ramped up the levels and ended with the league members having level 60s instead of 40s.
This is because they made the mistake of giving you access to pretty much the entire map of Johto the moment you get Surf, and they didn't want anyone to face overleveled enemies. So everything around and after Ecruteak is like L17 or something. I remember the Dragon gym being significantly tougher though.
I don't think the Elite Four's levels are that outrageously low. My Pokemon were usually around their 40s as well when I'd get there (whereas they'd be in their 50s in RB) simply because there's less EXP to gain in GSC.
Kanto wasn't very well thought out though. All the trainers are weaker than the ones before Victory Road iirc...L27-L29 or something. That makes no sense considering you have to beat a L50 Dragonite to actually get there. The gym leaders are around Elite Four level too. HGSS kinda fixed this though.
I don't think the Elite Four's levels are that outrageously low. My Pokemon were usually around their 40s as well when I'd get there (whereas they'd be in their 50s in RB) simply because there's less EXP to gain in GSC.
Kanto wasn't very well thought out though. All the trainers are weaker than the ones before Victory Road iirc...L27-L29 or something. That makes no sense considering you have to beat a L50 Dragonite to actually get there. The gym leaders are around Elite Four level too. HGSS kinda fixed this though.
GSC Kanto was actually more of a realistical aspect than a practical aspect: you'd not expect the E4 of a region to be weaker than a random bug catcher. Even more notable is Janine, since she's characterised as a new gym leader replacing Koga as well as being his daughter, they made her weaker than her father, which does seem logical, but practically it doesn't work since it just makes her a cakewalk.
It's actually good to see that Kanto is actually worth a challenge in HGSS (really the only trainer considered hard in GSC Kanto outside of Red is Blue, since he is like the only trainer outside the E4 to have a full battle outside of that random guy with 6 magikarps, as well as having levels higher than Lance, again a callback to him being RBY champion and hence logically being stronger than Lance)
It's actually good to see that Kanto is actually worth a challenge in HGSS (really the only trainer considered hard in GSC Kanto outside of Red is Blue, since he is like the only trainer outside the E4 to have a full battle outside of that random guy with 6 magikarps, as well as having levels higher than Lance, again a callback to him being RBY champion and hence logically being stronger than Lance)
The Shadow Triad in BW2. They're shown to be super badass throughout both games, despite never battling against the player in the first BW titles. Then, when you finally battle them in BW2... they always have an absolutely horrendous team. The first encounter is basically like the battle with Zinzolin you just had earlier, but worse. The 2 Cryogonal - which could at the very least do some damage with its good speed and acceptable sp. attack - are replaced by Pawniard, who pose very little threat to most pokemon, especially at the point you encounter them. Even Absol, with its great 130 base attack won't do much simply because of how slow and frail it is, especially without any EV investment. The trend continues for other battles with the Shadow Triad, and instead of mysterious, ghost-like entities they leave the impression of simply being overpaid grunts.
True. They should perhaps have the "easy" game first as the normal thing, then after you complete the game, if you decide to delete your save file and restart the game, you should have the option of getting a more difficult version (so that only people that are good enough to complete the game the first time will be able to attempt the harder version).
I guess with technology nowadays, I'm sure in the future computer games will probably be able to adjust their difficulty during gameplay according to how the player does (Pokemon Yellow did this a bit, with the rival's Eevee evolving according to how you battle him in your first two matches, but obviously now I'm sure they could do something much more complex than this).
Which reminds me, the 2nd Rival battle in RB was pretty difficult actually, with the L9 Pidgey and the L8 starter which usually had an elemental move by then (whilst the player's team would typically be L2-L7 at that point). You could easily skip it though.
can't believe nobody has said Brycen and Skyla in BW1. they are just pathetic.
The problem with these two are they can't really do better. Gamefreak didnt really make an effort to make solid Ice types for him to use they couldn't just give him a Kyeurum or something. As for Skyla she really isn't that bad, considering to get to her you have to go through a full cave of Pokemon that screw her over.
I never even used anything from chargestone cave but I always beat her with the greatest of ease e_e
I remember Bugsy being incredibly easy in GSC. The second gym leader was taken care of by Cyndaquil if you had one, but with a Pidgey/Spearow or Onix/Geodude if you chose the best starter, Tododile.
Metapod
-Harden
-String Shot
-Tackle
With the worst movepool in the game, it is obvious why Bugsy would choose this. He can easily Harden up, and wait out the game until he is KOd. At least he can do not very effective damage against your Rock type of choice, and slow it down so it goes second while its killing you. If you crammed your Pidgey, you could also Whirlwind away it's Hardens.
What it should have: Nothing can be changed, due to it's three move movepool.
Kakuna
-Harden
-String Shot
-Poison Sting
Blessed with the second worst movepool, it is more obvious why Bugsy chose to use this guy to defend his Gym. He could possibly poison you, and attempt to Harden up, and slow you down while you are whittled away. You could just Rock Throw it to death as soon as possible.
What I would change: Again, it is impossible.
Scyther
-Fury Cutter
-Leer
-Quick Attack
This Pokémon is a little more decent. It can lower your defense, and consecutively hit with Fury Cutter, and its awesome priority move, to do some comical damage while you hit it with Rocky's Rock Throw.
What I would change
-Toxic
-Rest
-Endure
-Reversal (If NPCs have egg moves)
Detect
Snore (If not)
With this set, it can Toxic Stall with reliable recovery, and Endure+Reversal can take out your Rock type of choice. Detect and Snore can also help stall, and damage even under the crippling sleep condition induced by Rest.
I remember entering the second Gym, expecting a worse hax battle, like Faulkner's infamous Sand Attack strategy. Unfortanately, I was in and out in minutes.
Metapod
-Harden
-String Shot
-Tackle
With the worst movepool in the game, it is obvious why Bugsy would choose this. He can easily Harden up, and wait out the game until he is KOd. At least he can do not very effective damage against your Rock type of choice, and slow it down so it goes second while its killing you. If you crammed your Pidgey, you could also Whirlwind away it's Hardens.
What it should have: Nothing can be changed, due to it's three move movepool.
Kakuna
-Harden
-String Shot
-Poison Sting
Blessed with the second worst movepool, it is more obvious why Bugsy chose to use this guy to defend his Gym. He could possibly poison you, and attempt to Harden up, and slow you down while you are whittled away. You could just Rock Throw it to death as soon as possible.
What I would change: Again, it is impossible.
Scyther
-Fury Cutter
-Leer
-Quick Attack
This Pokémon is a little more decent. It can lower your defense, and consecutively hit with Fury Cutter, and its awesome priority move, to do some comical damage while you hit it with Rocky's Rock Throw.
What I would change
-Toxic
-Rest
-Endure
-Reversal (If NPCs have egg moves)
Detect
Snore (If not)
With this set, it can Toxic Stall with reliable recovery, and Endure+Reversal can take out your Rock type of choice. Detect and Snore can also help stall, and damage even under the crippling sleep condition induced by Rest.
I remember entering the second Gym, expecting a worse hax battle, like Faulkner's infamous Sand Attack strategy. Unfortanately, I was in and out in minutes.
After just having finished a Yellow Nuzlocke, I have to say that there's one questionable thing about the Elite Four: Why does Bruno have two Onix? Hell, why does he even have one? Bruno is a member of the revered Elite Four, why would he have one of the least threatening Pokemon of RBY on his team? The thing has the same base Atk as a Pidgey >_>.
I never understood why he never had a Primeape. In fact, a team of Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Primeape/Poliwrath/Machamp would have been much more fitting. It makes sense: he specializes in Fighting-types, so he should have all five of the only fully-evolved Fighting-types.
I never understood why he never had a Primeape. In fact, a team of Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Primeape/Poliwrath/Machamp would have been much more fitting. It makes sense: he specializes in Fighting-types, so he should have all five of the only fully-evolved Fighting-types.
As a kid I was always extremely disappointed by Giovanni, being a ground type trainer of course one would expect that you could beat him easily with grass or water, but this wasn't brock with his geodude and onix. This was the mother fucking team rocket boss and the final gym leader. All you had to do was mindlessly spam water moves...
I have a feeling that his team was only for flavor, though. Like, he's the boss of Team Rocket, supposedly an imposing figure. So (for the most part) "just give him a bunch of menacing, tough-looking Pokemon" the designers probably thought.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Falkner in both GSC and HGSS. Mud-Slap is horrible in his GSC incarnation, but at least he has Roost in Gen IV. Trade Onix absolutely demolishes him, and it only costs a Bellsprout.
EDIT: Luvdisc'd
EDIT: Luvdisc'd