1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Lee, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Desch

    Desch

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    1) It isn't guaranteed anything
    2) It takes 50% from a +2 Surf
    3) Meteor Mash is base 100
    4) Fire blast from LO Heatran easily OHKO's
    5) Actually, it does take damage from resisted special attacks.
    6) It is easily 2HKO'd by Zapdos using Heat Wave
  2. iDunno

    iDunno

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,138
    1)It may not be guaranteed, but it's still very likely
    2)That was a typo i meant to say +1 Surf
    3)Meteor Mash is based 150 WITH STAB INCLUDED
    4)With an Occa berry, fire blast from LO heatran does much less
    5)It doesn't take much, but i was exaggerating a bit i do agree
    6)not bulky zapdos with no sp atk investment especially with Occa

    I have tested this set btw and I recently used it with occa and its waaaay better than leftovers. This metagross isn't designed to last long. Its designed to hit hard while taking less from many kinds of attacks and then explode.
  3. Away

    Away

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    445
    Metagross has enough natural bulk to survive every neutral unboosted Special Attack and can also survive that +1 Surf regardless of investment. You can also just as well put that Occa Berry on a 252 att 252 spd set and use it to the same effect, except get much more damage with the attack EV's. Metagross shouldn't stay in on bulky Zapdos anyway, Zapdos can Roost off the damage from Ice Punches and Heat Wave to come out on top, Occa Berry or not. And even if it were threatened by your EQ, it could outpredict that and just go for Heat Wave while you EQ and miss, granted, it may not have that prediction. But regardless, it outspeeds you and threatens you with Heat Waves and can play mindgames with you.
  4. calze6

    calze6

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    552
    I've got a new salamence set I've tested and it has worked really well:

    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    The idea is to switch this to something that can't hurt it, then sub. Your opponent will think that you will DD and switch to something like scarf latias. You, behind your sub, can kill latias. Roost really helps against SR, LO and sandstorm and your opponent can't "wear it down". Sub also provides effectiveness against rotom-a with WoW.
  5. broodjekebab

    broodjekebab

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    [​IMG]
    Bibarel @ Choice Scarf
    Unaware
    Rash, 252 Satk, 168 Speed, 90 Atk
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunderbolt
    -Superpower
    -Superfang/Waterfall

    Yeah, everyone's favourite pokemon finally finds a use in OU!
    The beauty (or ugliness) lies in its ability, which ignores any stat boosts.
    *Bibarel does 72.4% - 85.4% to bulky DD Gyarados
    *Bibarel does 79% - 93.2% to SD Lucario
    *Bibarel does 107.6% - 126.9% to DD Salamence

    As you can see, some of these aren't quite OHKO's, which is why SR and preferably some kind of priority attack is recommended.
    Why would anyone use this over something like Jirachi? There are two reasons: 1) It doesn't get trapped by Magnezone. 2) In the unlikely event that you're n00b/unlucky enough to let your opponent get more than one boost, this guy will redeem you.
  6. Coldcut

    Coldcut

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Does Unaware ignore speed boosts? The Smogon article only says that attack and defense boosts are ignored, and says nothing of speed. This means that the DD Salamence or Gyarados will still outspeed you after a boost, even with your scarf. The main problem is that even an unboosted Life Orb Dragon Claw from DDMence does 87.3% minimum, meaning you can't switch in and you still probably lose even in a revenge situation. If this is the case, you might consider giving up the scarf and speed EVs and investing in some defense/HP, but then you might as well go with Porygon2.

    The scarf would still be useful against slower/non-speed-boosting opponents like Lucario or Infernape, so it depends on what you want to counter. But if that is all it is used for, I would go with a different, preferably physical, moveset, changing the EV's and nature to match.

    Again, this whole idea depends on how Unaware treats opposing speed boosts.
  7. RaichuGuardian

    RaichuGuardian

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    146
    Mr. Annoying as Balls

    [​IMG]

    Spiritomb @ Custap Berry
    208 HP / 184 Atk / 116 SpD
    Careful
    -Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak
    -Endure
    -Momento/Hypnosis
    -Grudge/Hypnosis/Destiny Bond

    Pure theorymon, so excuse me on that. Sucker Punch to hit harder, but if Shadow Sneak for consistent damage. Hypnosis can put your opponent to sleep to avoid them from setting up, but its low accuracy might take you another route.

    Now the meat and potatoes of the set. Custap Berry will make you go first in a pinch, so with Endure, you can predict your KO and then proceed to either Destiny Bond, Hypnosis, Momento, or Grudge. Momento lowers opponents Sp. Atk and Atk two stages, while Grudge will eliminate all PP from the move they used to kill you. And Destiny Bond is great in its own, or put your opponent to sleep. It is up to you and could really piss of an opponent. Gimmicky, yes. Effective...well probably not, but try it out!
  8. EvilMario

    EvilMario

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    573
    You're correct. According to Bulbapedia;

    "Unaware ignores the foe's positive stat changes, with the exception of Speed, positive or negative. For example, if the foe uses Iron Defense, and a Pokémon with this ability uses a Physical move on the foe, the damage dealt will be the same as if Iron Defense was not used."

    Even if Speed was ignored, Bibarel is a work direct answer to Salamence, or Lucario. If Salamence uses Draco Meteor, or Outrage when Bibarel switches in, it will cause trouble. If Lucario uses any of its Fighting moves on the switch, Bibarel will go down.

    Gyarados is the one exception, where a Bulky Beaver won't be threatened by any unboosted move straight away. But he really wants SR down to make sure Gyarados will go down in one hit, because a Bulky Gyarados will survive.
  9. Darkvirus

    Darkvirus

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Messages:
    292
    one small note to add on priority will mess that up and the custap berry is not on shoddy yes (apprantly will be added for SB2)
  10. broodjekebab

    broodjekebab

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    The idea was to revenge kill, not counter. Can anything really counter Mence? But I digress...
    If unaware doesn't ignore speed changes, the concept is utter crap. =(
  11. Boondocker

    Boondocker

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    382
    [​IMG]
    @leftoevers/lum berry/chople berry
    168hp 120def 220spd

    ~stockpile
    ~belly drum
    ~body slam
    ~rest

    This thing can really ruin stall once the ghost is brought down. Stockpile up, then belly drum to gain max attack. Its recomended to pair this with a good pursuiter, however most ghosts cant touch you either. The advantage over curselax is that it instantly destroys most phasers who attempt to ruin your plans. I saw this in a rmt so im not going to claim it.
  12. MegaKick

    MegaKick

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    Whats the point of doing that when you can just curse? Sp. attacks aren't going to scratch you, you gain an extra turn, you spend less turns setting up so less crits against you, and is you get critted at 50% your dead.
  13. maniac200

    maniac200

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    This is the set you're looking for, broodjekebab:

    Bibarel@Choice specs
    Unaware
    Modest
    172 Def 252 HP, 84 sp atc
    Thunderbolt
    Ice beam
    Filler
    Filler

    OHKO's standard offensive DD gyra and mence. Also OHKO's bulky gyra with SR up. Always survives standard DD mence Outrage WITHOUT sr on the field. Not useful for anything else though.
  14. broodjekebab

    broodjekebab

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    Yeah, I guess that set has some utility at least. Just forget the whole Bibarel thing, let the beaver lurk in the shadows due to Unaware not neglecting speed boosts :P
  15. Crisis

    Crisis

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    29
    What do people think of this OU anti-lead spread?

    Spiritomb @ Spell Tag
    Quiet
    208 HP / 184 Atk / 116 SpD

    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-o-Wisp/Hypnosis
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit

    EVs and nature taken from the UU anti-lead set and could probably be improved. Sadly this is my first attempt at a spread so I've no idea where to begin with EVs, lol.

    This set is designed to counter most of the common leads in OU at the moment. Here's a breakdown of the top 10:

    1. Azelf - Will-o-Wisp to break sash and reduce explosion damage/hit a switch-in, or Shadow Ball for 100% accuracy and Taunt immunity. Pursuit/SP are a 1HKO after burn damage. Azelf's most threatening attack, Fire Blast, is a 3HKO on Spiritomb.

    2. Swampert - Rendered impotent once Will-o'd. Gets rocks up, but not much else. Spiritomb can't seriously threaten it beyond status so it can't do much to RestTalk but it can be a pain for leads.

    3. Metagross - Hates being Wisped or put to sleep. Meteor Mash is a 2HKO before Wisp, but both moves are inaccurate so it could be anybody's game. Bullet Punch is likely to be a KO following an attack raise, if Will-o misses.

    4. Aerodactyl - HATES being burned, but has access to a speedy Taunt, so you'll want to open with SB. If it does Taunt, Spiritomb can 3HKO it before it gets 3HKO'd back. If it Taunts and Stealth Rocks, it's well within Pursuit range on the switch. If it does neither, then SB-SP-Pursuit or SB-SP-SP should beat it.

    5. Jirachi - If you can burn it on the first turn then you will beat it with SP 1-on-1. But Iron Head's flinch rate and Will-o's low accuracy make it a bit dodgy. Trick totally ruins this spread but it's so obvious that you might be able to get a sneaky Will-o in if they predict you'll switch. You'll force a switch or neutralise a serious threat either way, even if Will-o misses, thanks to the speed of Choice Scarf. EDIT: Not true. Jirachi still outspeeds after Spiritomb gets Choice Scarf. It would be much better to switch to something that counters lead Jirachi, like say, Scarftran, as Spiritomb can't do anything to it without putting itself in extreme danger.

    6. Infernape - You will kill it before it kills you. Possible, but unlikely, to 2HKO with Shadow Ball. Also hates being asleep.

    7. Roserade - Not a good matchup. Can set up on Spiritomb easily and can seriously hurt with Leaf Storm. There are worse Pokemon to take Sleep Powder than Spiritomb, though.

    8. Tyranitar - Hates being Will-o'd but can 2HKO Spiritomb with Stone Edge. Also hates being put to sleep. Taunt neutralises any threat Spiritomb presents, but none of the Smogon OU sets currently include Taunt.

    9. Ninjask - Shadow Ball breaks subs with 100% accuracy which is the best you can hope for. Hypnosis or Will-o (or your own Taunt) on the switch can seriously screw the BP chain.

    10. Gliscor - Falls into the same category as Hippowdon as a bulky ground that hates Will-o-Wisp, but unlike Hippo he's likely to taunt you before you can get it off. Spiritomb isn't exactly threatened, but he is vulnerable to set up.

    This Spiritomb also either neutralises or seriously threatens other common leads like Machamp (robbing him of his trademark STAB and burning/sleeping him), Ambipom, Anti-Lead Starmie, Bronzong, and Gengar. Plus, it has a really wide movepool to draw from that includes Taunt, priority moves, Toxic/Will-o/Hypnosis, Trick, DBond, Pain Split, Calm Mind, and Curse; which means he is always somewhat unpredictable and that you can adjust his spread to counter specific threats to your team. You could even throw Psychic on there for a more reliable way of hitting Infernape and Roserade. Psych Up is an option to counter set up, but a lot of set up Pokemon carry Taunt and Spiritomb is basically guaranteed to be unable to outspeed them. With wish support, he could also be a reasonable spin blocker.

    What do you think guys?
  16. Instinctive

    Instinctive

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    306
    As the guy who posted the Tomb anti lead spread in that thread...attack EVs and pursuit are useless.

    Put them in defenses or SPAtk, and then replace pursuit with pain split or go double status.

    You'll still 3HKO what you need to, in addition to gliscor as well
  17. NightmareZ

    NightmareZ

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    72
    Going back to my jolt set. I really think that this is a wonderful lead. It really takes people by surprise which allows you to take advantage in the battle. I combined it with a starmie for the spin and its working pretty well. Now to find some kind of team which it works well with.

    NightmareZ
  18. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,422
    That Spiritomb is using EVs that are meant for UU and not for OU. Instead of using the spread it is currently using, it should invest in HP, Attack, and Special Attack rather than use its current spread. Spiritomb should use Shadow Sneak instead of Pursuit so that it can reliably win against Azelf with SB+SS and can break Roserade's Sash before being put to sleep.
  19. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    The Jirachi set can't outspeed Mence because neutral speed mence almost doesnt exist. Plus the coverage of those moves is awful. You'd be better off with something like fire punch + toxic.

    That Staraptor set on the previous page was good, though. High damage and UTurn to escape threats is always nice.
  20. Radon Imbalance

    Radon Imbalance

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    I run a similar Metagross, but with Shuca Berry and a spread of 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD (though I really need to work out a more effective spread) with an Adamant nature. He makes for an amazing Salamence switch-in as he is never KOed by DM + FB / EQ and can take even a +1 Adamant LO EQ. Meta is also a great Lati counter, though Specs Surf does hurt quite a bit. He easily checks CM Lati with Ice Punch. IP also serves as a great way to lure and eliminate Gliscor. In terms of his other moves, EQ doesn't hit too hard, but it's really just for coverage and is useful for grabbing kills on Heatran who likes to switch in. Explosion is generally useful and decimates Swampert and well as other bulky Waters. I have also run ThunderPunch in this spot occasionally, which allows Meta to check Gyarados and (somewhat) Starmie in addition to Mence and CM Lati.
  21. Pollux-Castor

    Pollux-Castor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    You guys realize that Ice Punch has the same power as Meteor Mash against Latias? And I think Meteor Mash handles Salamence due to Clear Body. I'm not so sure it is the best move. At least give other/options.

    And here is my set:
    [​IMG]
    Miltank
    Name: Milky Lead
    Item: Lum Berry
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 128hp 216speed 166atk
    Move1: Stealth Rock
    Move2: Return
    Move3: Brick Break
    Move4: Thunderwave

    Just tested it out on Shoddy and it did a great job. 216speed to outspeed max speed Roserade and 2hko her with Return (and Smeargle). 128hp actually allows her to barely survive Infernape's Fakeout+Close Combat, Miltank would Thunderwave him first then Stealth Rock. Brick Break should ohko Tyranitar and is good for removing that Daul Screen strategy. The leftovers of 166atk EVs doesn't get anyone specific but Return also 2hkos Azelf, forcing her to either SR or Explode after she Taunts. The only real problem lead I face was Aerodactyl, whom I simply Returned to remove the Sash after he Taunted me. Machamp is also annoying but SR is guaranteed. If he used Sub first then I would Return, if he used Encore first then I switch out.

    The good thing about this lead is that it very often gets Stealth Rock and can come in later and cause problems due to her general bulkiness and Thick Fat. Thunderwave is a great tool to stop switch-ins like Gyarados and Salamence from sweeping away.
  22. Coldcut

    Coldcut

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Just a thought, perhaps you could opt for Body Slam to replace both Return and Thunder Wave. The paralysis is not guaranteed and you lose a bit of power, but you still have a chance to paralyze through a Taunt, and it could open up a slot for another coverage move, like Ice/Thunder punch for Aerodactyl. You still get the 2HKO's on Roserade and Smeargle, but lose out on a guaranteed 2HKO on Azelf. I really like this idea, and Miltank certainly has the physical bulk, speed (a cow, really?) and movepool to be effective.

    As for the Metagross, with so little attack investment and no Life Orb, you don't even come close to a OHKO on Salamence with Meteor Mash even after SR with an Adamant nature, whereas Ice Punch is a guaranteed OHKO no matter what. 100% accuracy is a bonus too. You have no choice but to Explode on Gyarados though. Thunderpunch might be worth considering for that reason, but I'm not sure what you would replace.
  23. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,306
    Brick Break isn't a OHKO, in fact it's barely a 2HKO on Tyranitar.
  24. Coldcut

    Coldcut

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    A 2HKO is still ok though, since Scarftar has to crit with Stone Edge to 2HKO back, and Miltank outspeeds everything else for the 2HKO.
  25. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Visual Media Head

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,964
    Pokemon Name: Jirachi
    Moveset Name : Parafusionflichrachi
    Move 1: Thunder Wave/Body Slam
    Move 2: Water Pulse
    Move 3: Iron Head
    Move 4: Wish
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Brave
    EVs: 56/200/0/252/0/0

    This set is a variation of the more traditional thunder wave + iron head. The design is simple; force a switch, thunder wave, then once you're faster, water pulse once or twice until the 40% confusion kicks in. Thens it's STAB Iron Head all the way. Body slam has some utility over Thunder wave, and I have been switching between the two of them. It is annoying to not paralyze the on coming pokemon, but the extra coverage on grounds is nice. It might not seem like that big of a difference adding confusion, but it helps stack damage on opponents that Jirachi hits for not very effective damage and saves Jirachi turns. Some percents:
    Pokemon is confused and paralyzed: 37.5% chance to attack
    Pokemon is confused and Jirachi uses Iron Head: 20% chance to attack
    Pokemon is paralyzed and Jirachi uses Iron Head: 30% chance to attack
    Pokemon is confused, paralyzed, and Jirachi uses Iron Head: 15% chance to attack
    And remember, during the times where the pokemon is confused, part of the chance of failing the attack also involves hurting themselves (I could do those calculations, but I'm to lazy).
    As you can see, this set is good at wearing down pokemon and setting up a sweep. The paralyzation can also help your team with sweeping. I've had some success with this set and it works well when combined with good sweeps.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)