Teams are definitely more prepared for Baton Pass now. I've seen more Hitmontop use multiple priority moves, more Donphan/Steelix (Sturdy), Haze on stuff besides Milotic, more Substitute users that avoid Spore and can kill both the abusers and the Shell Smash users, more Pokemon (also Resttalkers to take Spore) with multiple phazing moves, more Chesto/Lum Berry usage, and powerful LO/Choice users that can KO most of the Pokemon on Smashpass teams. I don't think this is a bad thing at all. Adjusting is good.
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np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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I've had a few users PM me and ask for tips on how to better handle Baton Pass. I assume other prominent players are also helping people on the ladder. Seems that even the average player is now somewhat prepared for baton pass teams, at least from a teambuilding perspective.
The best way to deal with BP IMO is just to pressure them as much as possible. Like, if you see Smeargle or something like that as the lead, sent in your Sub/CM Raikou or something like that and set up in its face. If you see a potential Dual Screen user, send in Mismagius and Taunt it before it does anything. Team Preview allows you to make plans very quickly, and if you see a potential Baton Passers, if you're playing balance or offense, just start attacking straight away, get the momentum as soon as possible. If you're playing stall, you probably have a way of dealing with Baton Pass reasonably easily anyway.
Finally you people realize how broken baton pass is with Espeon. BP will be no where near broken when (hopefully) Espeon gets banned.
Agreed. Chansey has been ignored for serveral reasons this round, and I am sure its usage is down for mainly these reasons:
1). The banning of Kyugem
Kyugem had very few things that could take its hits, mainly due to the lack of useable steels in UU (Cobalion is probably the best, and maybe Steelix/Durant to a lesser extent). Chansey was one of the few pokes who could wall nonphysical Kyugems, and even with 101 subs, this poke really had no way of hurting Chansey.
2). The increase of use of Staraptor
While I haven't laddered as much, during the beginning of round 2, staraptors were everywhere. Banded raptors might be able to 2hko, but it required double edge or BB to do it, since Close combat was, I believe, a 3HKO (sad, isn't it)? Chansey might be able to check staraptor, but it definitely can't switch into it.
3). Being adapted to.
Since Chansey was not banned last round, this round, teams have been built to handle the blob better in multiple ways: Using mostly physical attackers, and maybe 1 or 2 special attackers, or the much more successful "Tickle Trapping" (which involves Wobbafet + dugtrio/pursuit user), the meta shifted around this defensive atrocity.
I am sure there are other factor I may not be accounting for, but having only one weakness, and getting hit oh its weak side with a SE hit and not dying just seems stupid. And that is ignoring the fact that anything special not named Raikou (and even then, Raikou can still lose) is never getting past chansey.
1). The banning of Kyugem
Kyugem had very few things that could take its hits, mainly due to the lack of useable steels in UU (Cobalion is probably the best, and maybe Steelix/Durant to a lesser extent). Chansey was one of the few pokes who could wall nonphysical Kyugems, and even with 101 subs, this poke really had no way of hurting Chansey.
2). The increase of use of Staraptor
While I haven't laddered as much, during the beginning of round 2, staraptors were everywhere. Banded raptors might be able to 2hko, but it required double edge or BB to do it, since Close combat was, I believe, a 3HKO (sad, isn't it)? Chansey might be able to check staraptor, but it definitely can't switch into it.
3). Being adapted to.
Since Chansey was not banned last round, this round, teams have been built to handle the blob better in multiple ways: Using mostly physical attackers, and maybe 1 or 2 special attackers, or the much more successful "Tickle Trapping" (which involves Wobbafet + dugtrio/pursuit user), the meta shifted around this defensive atrocity.
I am sure there are other factor I may not be accounting for, but having only one weakness, and getting hit oh its weak side with a SE hit and not dying just seems stupid. And that is ignoring the fact that anything special not named Raikou (and even then, Raikou can still lose) is never getting past chansey.
1) Sub Hone Claws, which was arguably Kyurem's most deadly set, shits all over Chansey.
2) SE Close Combat is stronger than a neutral Reckless STAB Brave Bird.
3) If it's been successfully adapted to I really don't see the problem.
I don't really see Chansey as broken, but I can certainly see why people do. If it survive this round I wouldn't be all that shocked to see it go next round after Wobb is inevitably banned.
Arguable, I always thought the specs/scarf set was its best set. The only reason Hone claws/sub was good was because of chansey/ other walls.
Nope. Brave Bird deals 270 base after Reckless. Close Combat only dealt 240.
My point was that I felt the meta kind of shifted against it, and not in a good way. Wobb will probably end up getting the axe if its usage continues to rise (its low usage is the only reason it skidded under the radar in UU).
What? STAB Reckless BB has 216 base power.
Standard BB base power: 120
+ 20% Reckless boost: 144
+ 50% STAB boost: 216
Not that I disagree with your fundamental point.
Unless I'm mistaken I think Brave Bird only has 216 base power after Reckless....and CB Close Combat 2HKOes Chansey but Scarf doesn't.
EDIT: Ninja'd by FlareBlitz :/
372 Atk vs 178 Def & 704 HP (120 Base Power): 360 - 424 (51.14% - 60.23%)
Adamant Close Combat vs 252/252+ Eviolite Chansey. And don't even say "JOLLY" because hardly anybody uses Jolly, and even if they DID it's a 2HKO on average without SR; 339 Atk vs 178 Def & 704 HP (120 Base Power): 328 - 386 (46.59% - 54.83%)
Adamant Close Combat vs 252/252+ Eviolite Chansey. And don't even say "JOLLY" because hardly anybody uses Jolly, and even if they DID it's a 2HKO on average without SR; 339 Atk vs 178 Def & 704 HP (120 Base Power): 328 - 386 (46.59% - 54.83%)
So one SE attack on chansey's "week side" from one of the most powerful (and arguably broken) pokemon in UU is a 2HKO..., that really doesn't seem to be a good argument to keep Chansey around
I think the excessive priority may have a lot to do with the Scarf Staraptor on every team and the Scarf Heracross on half of them, as well. Timid Scarf Jolteon is pretty intense though....and when you say Haze+Dragon Tail you are referring to both moves on one set? If such a set ever makes it to an analysis (I doubt it would) it should be referred to as "Non-BP teams are really good in this meta"!
Hey, I'd just like to remind everyone to ask for the Smashpass complex ban to be changed to individual suspects of Gorebyss, Huntail, and Smeargle for next round! We would like the BL tier to be solely for Pokemon and Abilities, and not silly complex bans.
Mew is already a suspect. >_>
Probably since everyone started carrying bucketloads of priority Smashpass(Murkrow's main role)'s effectiveness is somewhat lowered.
159 is a magic number.
It's Wynaut's maximum speed, slower than Wobbuffet and unfortunately slower than Hitmontop as well, but still faster than Chansey, Slowbro and things like that that you would want to Encore and Tickle.
Eviolite helps Wynaut a lot, but I wonder how much the speed loss and Leftovers loss will really hurt Wynaut compared to Wobbuffet. All told I think Wobbuffet is clearly preferable as long as both are allowed, but if and when Wobbuffet is banned, I think Wynaut is worth considering as a plug-in on Wobbuffet teams.
It's Wynaut's maximum speed, slower than Wobbuffet and unfortunately slower than Hitmontop as well, but still faster than Chansey, Slowbro and things like that that you would want to Encore and Tickle.
Eviolite helps Wynaut a lot, but I wonder how much the speed loss and Leftovers loss will really hurt Wynaut compared to Wobbuffet. All told I think Wobbuffet is clearly preferable as long as both are allowed, but if and when Wobbuffet is banned, I think Wynaut is worth considering as a plug-in on Wobbuffet teams.
Actually, I doubt Eviolite Wynaut is good in UU. It lacks the reliable recovery that really pisses off people who face Eviolite users(P2, Chansey, Dusclops, etc.) CB Victini's V-Create easily deals a fuckton to Wynaut, and has a chance to KO 4/252 Bold variants(it's a OHKO after rocks).
Mostly speaking, Wynaut cannot function if Stealth Rock is on its side. It gets OHKO'd by a lot of stuff if it uses a 4/252/252 EV spread(I'm not sure if it optimises Wynaut's bulk). In other words, Wynaut sucks.
I don't know, if you put a choice scarf on it, it might do wonders.
jk
jk
It wasn't an argument for keeping Chansey in UU. It was simply correcting something that someone said that was wrong.
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