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Media One Piece (spoilers!)
- Thread starter some hero
- Start date
Good chapter, though I thought it was kind of weird that Doflamingo shot Law with a gun (it's literally like Superman using a gun on someone). That leads me to believe that Oda wanted to let us know that Law is probably dead, rather than just a random attack that would leave us questioning Law's fate.
It was too much of a public execution to be Quixote's style. I don't think he'd want his people to know he's a wire man given what happened to the old king. I think it was more of a front to the world government, to say one of the shshi was dead. Especially Fujorita.
He's probably going to use Law as trade for Clown, makes sense. Law will say don't do it but Law is luffy's nakama. Heart Pirates will think that Law is dead and disband.
Kinemon and his son aren't official members of the crew. They won't stay around much longer. Law would be a nice addition to the crew but they already have a doctor so nope. Guess it's (ugh) helmsmen Jinbie
He's probably going to use Law as trade for Clown, makes sense. Law will say don't do it but Law is luffy's nakama. Heart Pirates will think that Law is dead and disband.
Kinemon and his son aren't official members of the crew. They won't stay around much longer. Law would be a nice addition to the crew but they already have a doctor so nope. Guess it's (ugh) helmsmen Jinbie
So, I've been thinking about how the next chapter plays out, and I think it's mostly going to be dependent on the effectiveness of Doflamingo's Parasite.
Scenario 1: Doflamingo is only able to immobilize Kinemon.
Scenario 2: Doflamingo is only able to immobilize one of Luffy / Zoro.
Scenario 3: Doflamingo is able to immobilize Luffu and Zoro.
Scenario 4: Doflamingo is able to immobilize Luffy, Zoro, and Kinemon.
Now let's assume that Fujitora will assist Doflamingo, which is likely but not guaranteed. In this case, it is likely that Luffy will fight Doflamingo and Zoro will fight Fujitora, as the two are swordsmen. Kinemon is obviously fodder in this fight, but he's there for a reason, otherwise Oda would've come up with some scenario where Zoro and Kinemon aren't nearby when Doflamingo and Law arrive. This leads me to believe that Kinemon has the capability of cutting Parasite's strings, meaning that, even if Luffy isn't able to overcome Parasite by himself (debatable), Kinemon can still assist and allow Luffu to fight unhindered. Because of this, and Doflamingo's ability to paralyze someone as strong as Jozu, I think that scenario 2 is the most likely. Scenario 3 seems downright improbable since if Doflamingo can paralyze both Luffy and Zoro then there's nothing stopping Fujitora from foddering Kinemon. Finally there is scenario 4, which I think is also very unlikely, but could still happen so that Luffy and co. get captured in order to set up a jail scene where a dying Law tells Luffy about Cora.
So back to scenario 2 being the most likely: That would mean Zoro (and by extension, Luffy) is already admiral-tier if he's able to 1v1 Fujitora. This is obviously a stretch for some people. But you see, I've been thinking that Admiral-tier is a misnomer; rather, I think that there are TWO admiral-tiers.
High Admiral / Yonko Tier: Akainu, Aokiji, Big Mom, Blackbeard, Garp, Kaidou, Sengoku, Shanks
Lower Admiral Tier: Doflamingo, Fujitora, Kizaru, Marco, Mihawk?, Luffy?, Rayleigh, Zoro??, 7th new Shichibukai?
I came to the conclusion that Kizaru was weaker than Akainu and Aokiji when he fought evenly with Marco, who is clearly not Yonko-tier, whereas Akainu (and by extension Aokiji) most likely is since Blackbeard didn't want to go up against him even after having obtained the Gura-Gura no Mi. Fujitora most likely falls under this category as well since he is a new admiral. Really the only odd one-out is Mihawk, who could very well be Yonko-tier, but given that a) he is not a Yonko while Shanks is, and b) he was held up by a Whitebeard fleet commander during Marineford, I'm inclined to believe he's not quite there. I actually considered making a third tier in the middle just to put him in, because I'm having such difficulty measuring him against the others.
Now, you might be wondering "isn't it a bit too early into the timeskip for Luffy to be this strong? Possibly, but we also need to look ahead to the next arc, where Luffy will almost certainly go up against either Kaidou or Big Mom (one of whom is presumably the weakest Yonko, though Blackbeard might hold that title for the time being). This means that, unless one of those two could be placed in my lower tier (which I doubt), that Luffy will by necessity be as strong as a Yonko by that point of the story, which means that logically, at the step before that (now) he would be at Lower-Tier Admiral strength. We haven't really seen anything from Luffy to indicate this is true, but we also have yet to see him go all-out (which he damn well is about to do barring Parasite hax). Even something as simple as Gear Four could be all that's needed to convince us, the readers, of Luffy's newfound strength.
Or Doflamingo could just fly away like a motherfucker and shit on all of my theorycrafting.
Scenario 1: Doflamingo is only able to immobilize Kinemon.
Scenario 2: Doflamingo is only able to immobilize one of Luffy / Zoro.
Scenario 3: Doflamingo is able to immobilize Luffu and Zoro.
Scenario 4: Doflamingo is able to immobilize Luffy, Zoro, and Kinemon.
Now let's assume that Fujitora will assist Doflamingo, which is likely but not guaranteed. In this case, it is likely that Luffy will fight Doflamingo and Zoro will fight Fujitora, as the two are swordsmen. Kinemon is obviously fodder in this fight, but he's there for a reason, otherwise Oda would've come up with some scenario where Zoro and Kinemon aren't nearby when Doflamingo and Law arrive. This leads me to believe that Kinemon has the capability of cutting Parasite's strings, meaning that, even if Luffy isn't able to overcome Parasite by himself (debatable), Kinemon can still assist and allow Luffu to fight unhindered. Because of this, and Doflamingo's ability to paralyze someone as strong as Jozu, I think that scenario 2 is the most likely. Scenario 3 seems downright improbable since if Doflamingo can paralyze both Luffy and Zoro then there's nothing stopping Fujitora from foddering Kinemon. Finally there is scenario 4, which I think is also very unlikely, but could still happen so that Luffy and co. get captured in order to set up a jail scene where a dying Law tells Luffy about Cora.
So back to scenario 2 being the most likely: That would mean Zoro (and by extension, Luffy) is already admiral-tier if he's able to 1v1 Fujitora. This is obviously a stretch for some people. But you see, I've been thinking that Admiral-tier is a misnomer; rather, I think that there are TWO admiral-tiers.
High Admiral / Yonko Tier: Akainu, Aokiji, Big Mom, Blackbeard, Garp, Kaidou, Sengoku, Shanks
Lower Admiral Tier: Doflamingo, Fujitora, Kizaru, Marco, Mihawk?, Luffy?, Rayleigh, Zoro??, 7th new Shichibukai?
I came to the conclusion that Kizaru was weaker than Akainu and Aokiji when he fought evenly with Marco, who is clearly not Yonko-tier, whereas Akainu (and by extension Aokiji) most likely is since Blackbeard didn't want to go up against him even after having obtained the Gura-Gura no Mi. Fujitora most likely falls under this category as well since he is a new admiral. Really the only odd one-out is Mihawk, who could very well be Yonko-tier, but given that a) he is not a Yonko while Shanks is, and b) he was held up by a Whitebeard fleet commander during Marineford, I'm inclined to believe he's not quite there. I actually considered making a third tier in the middle just to put him in, because I'm having such difficulty measuring him against the others.
Now, you might be wondering "isn't it a bit too early into the timeskip for Luffy to be this strong? Possibly, but we also need to look ahead to the next arc, where Luffy will almost certainly go up against either Kaidou or Big Mom (one of whom is presumably the weakest Yonko, though Blackbeard might hold that title for the time being). This means that, unless one of those two could be placed in my lower tier (which I doubt), that Luffy will by necessity be as strong as a Yonko by that point of the story, which means that logically, at the step before that (now) he would be at Lower-Tier Admiral strength. We haven't really seen anything from Luffy to indicate this is true, but we also have yet to see him go all-out (which he damn well is about to do barring Parasite hax). Even something as simple as Gear Four could be all that's needed to convince us, the readers, of Luffy's newfound strength.
Or Doflamingo could just fly away like a motherfucker and shit on all of my theorycrafting.
lol, lots of people here idolize the admirals and would think luffy / zoro being close to that level isn't right for this point in the story (panamxis and franky specifically)
i would have no issue with luffy being there, tbh, because a.) i think the yonko are individually stronger than the strong admirals anyway, so luffy being at low admiral tier strength now would be fine if the yonko are the end goal b.) luffy trained with rayleigh for 1.5 years because rayleigh felt he learned everything he needed to in 1.5 years,not the full 2
I agree with the idea there is a "high" and "low" tier for those in that category, because DD specifically avoided fighting Aokiji at basically full strength, and if we've seen anything of DD, it's that he does not give a fuck and will wreck you if he can
Luffy / Zoro approaching that "lower admiral" tier in terms of strength makes sense to me
the only disappointing thing would be that Sanji is quite behind as he cracked his leg against Vergo and was about to get fodderized by DD so...
i would have no issue with luffy being there, tbh, because a.) i think the yonko are individually stronger than the strong admirals anyway, so luffy being at low admiral tier strength now would be fine if the yonko are the end goal b.) luffy trained with rayleigh for 1.5 years because rayleigh felt he learned everything he needed to in 1.5 years,not the full 2
I agree with the idea there is a "high" and "low" tier for those in that category, because DD specifically avoided fighting Aokiji at basically full strength, and if we've seen anything of DD, it's that he does not give a fuck and will wreck you if he can
Luffy / Zoro approaching that "lower admiral" tier in terms of strength makes sense to me
the only disappointing thing would be that Sanji is quite behind as he cracked his leg against Vergo and was about to get fodderized by DD so...
I don't think that Dofla will approach a fight with Luffy and Zoro now. It seems most likely that he will take Law with him and have him as a bargain to get Caesar back. Not to mention that Dofla would be much better prepared to fight the SHs in his palace (or whatever place he will be), and will have his whole gang ready to assist him. Of course Dofla could beat both Zoro and Luffy and take them as hostages too, but i don't think he will underestimate the SHs that much unless he is 100% sure he can beat the two of them together, which seems extremely unlikely, so he will prefer not go against those two together. Though if Fujitora ends up helping DD, things will get really messy really quick, and seeing Zoro fighting with Fujitora would be fucking great!!!
There is no "low admiral" tier IMO. Well, I might put Akainu and Kuzan in a tier above the other two, but I don't think the gap is as big as you two are implying it would be. I also disagree with the idea that Mihawk is even relatively close to anyone in that tier. The reason why he got held up by Vista for, like, a minute before the Pacifistas rolled in was because of his "only use as much force as you need" philosophy. That and the fact that he was in a 1v1 duel, which obviously would cause him to regulate his power more strictly than in a free for all with 50 guys. As for exactly how much power he's hiding, this is a guy who went even with prime Shanks and currently views him as an inferior fighter. Based on what we know, I'd say he's easily high Yonkou, especially considering that he's the ultimate goal of the deuteragonist.
As for Luffy and Zoro, I'd put them at upper-mid Shichibukai tier, on level with Dofla and a little behind Jinbei and Kuma.
As for Luffy and Zoro, I'd put them at upper-mid Shichibukai tier, on level with Dofla and a little behind Jinbei and Kuma.
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I don't think Kizaru is a lower tier Admiral, it's just that he is essentially lazy and doesn't care enough about any ideal to make a stand for it, the kind of guy who does his job and nothing more. It just so happens that he met his match in the WB war against Marco where his intangibility and super strong haki was able to fend him off for the most part. Or in another way Marco himself is in the High Admiral/Yonko Tier.
I do agree that there a is difference of power between Shichibukais and Yonkos, but there is no such thing as a low Admiral, only super ones.
For example:
Legendary Powers: Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Garp, Shanks, Raleigh, Mihawk, WB (Deceased)
Admiral Level: Fujitora, Green Bull, Big Mom, Blackbeard, Kaidou, Sengoku, Marco, Kuma
Shichibukai Level: Doflamingo, 7th new Shichibukai
Lower Shichibukai Level: Moria, Boa, Law, Crocodile, Jinbei, Vergo
I don't know where to place the Strawhats, but these epic fights almost always puts them against someone one level higher than them. Mihawk being in the same tier as Akainu makes sense he is Zoro's final boss/challenge and is the World's best swordsman.
The rest of the Heart Pirates are waiting on the island of Zo. Law said he'd meet up with them after his plan succeeds.
oh, are we doing power levels for one piece characters? i like the lists that tobes and x5dragon have put up, but i do have my personal disagreements with each of them. tobes, regarding your list, i disagree with your placement of kizaru below akainu and aokiji for the same reasons x5dragon stated. x5dragon, your list is cool, but the only thing that upsets me about your list are the placement of sengoku and most of the yonko below shanks, mihawk, and silvers rayleigh. personally, i'd rank the top dogs in one piece as follows (the order of people in each tier is done alphabetically):
tier 0 (yonko level): akainu, aokiji, big mom, blackbeard,buggy the clown, dracule mihawk, fujitora, gol d. roger (deceased), kaidō, kizaru, marco (?), monkey d. garp, sengoku, shanks, shiliew, silvers rayleigh, whitebeard (deceased)
tier 1 (admiral level): bartholomew kuma, benn beckman, diamond jozu, donquixote doflamingo, jesus burgess (?), magellan, monkey d. luffy (?), portgas d. ace (deceased), shiki (?), zephyr
tier 2 (shichibukai level): basil hawkins, boa hancock, crocodile, dalmatian, don chinjao, eustass kid, gekko moriah, jinbe, momonga, rob lucci (?), roronoa zoro, scratchmen apoo, smoker, trafalgar law, vergo, vista, x drake (?)
i actually had trouble figuring out where to place shiki, so i ended up tossing him into tier 1 for now. his rank will likely change once i get a chance to watch strong world again. i lumped jozu into tier 1 and marco into tier 0 based on their displays at marineford and their ability to give the admirals a tough fight. marco was bumped up a tier because of the gorosei's claim that he and the other yonko are the only ones that can stop blackbeard.
the only people i didn't include on that list that probably deserve to be on there were monkey d. dragon, ryokugyu, the cp-0 agents, and the 7th shichibukai, simply because we have zero to gauge their strength with aside from hype.
anyways, i don't think doflamingo will fight the straw hats right now. rather, i think he'll take law hostage and demand that the straw hats turn over caesar clown in exchange.
e: moved magellan down to tier 1 after browsing through the impel down arc.
e2: innocent until proven guilty.
e3: watched film z again. firmly convinced that zephyr is a tier 1 fighter.
tier 0 (yonko level): akainu, aokiji, big mom, blackbeard,
tier 1 (admiral level): bartholomew kuma, benn beckman, diamond jozu, donquixote doflamingo, jesus burgess (?), magellan, monkey d. luffy (?), portgas d. ace (deceased), shiki (?), zephyr
tier 2 (shichibukai level): basil hawkins, boa hancock, crocodile, dalmatian, don chinjao, eustass kid, gekko moriah, jinbe, momonga, rob lucci (?), roronoa zoro, scratchmen apoo, smoker, trafalgar law, vergo, vista, x drake (?)
i actually had trouble figuring out where to place shiki, so i ended up tossing him into tier 1 for now. his rank will likely change once i get a chance to watch strong world again. i lumped jozu into tier 1 and marco into tier 0 based on their displays at marineford and their ability to give the admirals a tough fight. marco was bumped up a tier because of the gorosei's claim that he and the other yonko are the only ones that can stop blackbeard.
the only people i didn't include on that list that probably deserve to be on there were monkey d. dragon, ryokugyu, the cp-0 agents, and the 7th shichibukai, simply because we have zero to gauge their strength with aside from hype.
anyways, i don't think doflamingo will fight the straw hats right now. rather, i think he'll take law hostage and demand that the straw hats turn over caesar clown in exchange.
e: moved magellan down to tier 1 after browsing through the impel down arc.
e2: innocent until proven guilty.
e3: watched film z again. firmly convinced that zephyr is a tier 1 fighter.
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If we're really doing powerlevels:
High Yonkou: Kaidou, Mihawk, Blackbeard, Akainu, Sengoku
Low Yonkou/Admiral: Shanks, Big Mom, Kuzan, Kizaru, Garp, Fujitora
High Yonkou Crew: Benn Beckman, Phoenix Marco, Kuma, Shiliew, Yasopp
Low Yonkou Crew: Jinbei, Diamond Jos, Vista, Sanjuan Wolf, Vasco Shot, Avalo Pizarro, Catarina Devon, Eustass Kid, X Drake
High Shichibukai: Doflamingo, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Franky, Law, Jesus Burgess, Trebol, Diamante, Pica, Ivankov, Killer
Low Shichibukai: Crocodile, Boa Hancock, Bartolomeo, Bellamy, Caesar Clown, Magellan, Cavendish, Basil Hawkins, Scratchmen Apoo, the rest of the Straw Hats
High Yonkou: Kaidou, Mihawk, Blackbeard, Akainu, Sengoku
Low Yonkou/Admiral: Shanks, Big Mom, Kuzan, Kizaru, Garp, Fujitora
High Yonkou Crew: Benn Beckman, Phoenix Marco, Kuma, Shiliew, Yasopp
Low Yonkou Crew: Jinbei, Diamond Jos, Vista, Sanjuan Wolf, Vasco Shot, Avalo Pizarro, Catarina Devon, Eustass Kid, X Drake
High Shichibukai: Doflamingo, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Franky, Law, Jesus Burgess, Trebol, Diamante, Pica, Ivankov, Killer
Low Shichibukai: Crocodile, Boa Hancock, Bartolomeo, Bellamy, Caesar Clown, Magellan, Cavendish, Basil Hawkins, Scratchmen Apoo, the rest of the Straw Hats
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Eh, Blackbeard's Impel Down crew being stronger than his first mate? Doubtful, though stranger things have happened. On Kuma, he basically is just a Pacifista with Paw Paw powers.. but, idk how effectively he can use them now. Presumably after returning from defending the Sunny, he'd be getting upgraded? Tbh, Mihawk is probably right up there at the very top. Considering he pretty much has to be Zoro's final opponent, and the fact he dueled on an even level with a two armed Shanks.
Lol @ Kizaru being in a different tier to Aokiji/Akainu. The difference between Aokiji/Akainu/Kizaru is so small that for all intents and purposes they're pretty much equal. This isn't really a fair comparison either, for it to be fair it would have to be a situation like Kizaru fights evenly with Blackbeard but Blackbeard runs away from Akainu. I'm sure that Blackbeard would have run away from both Aokiji and Kizaru as well if they showed up instead of Akainu.
Not sure why Kizaru fighting equally with Marco is a point against him either, remember the Gorosei mentioned Marco as a possible successor to the gap that Whitebeard left in his death? Marco is ridiculously strong compared to the rest of the OP world...
Why does fujitora being a new admiral mean that he's weaker than the preskip admirals btw? Until we see more of him, it's reasonable to assume that he's on the level of preskip admirals since he holds the same title (innocent until proven guilty..).
this is true
ugh... Current luffy and zoro stand no chance at taking on Fujitora, Kizaru, Marco, Rayleigh or Mihawk. We're halfway through the story, for Zoro to be approaching a tier that Mihawk resides in wouldn't make sense. Doflamingo is the only character in Tobes Lower Admiral Tier than I can see Zoro and luffy being close to.
Didn't we all see Aokiji effortlessly flash-freeze Doflamingo, and then when Doflamingo broke out he was panting like a madman? Doflamingo is very strong but he's still no big deal for characters of admiral calibre. Some serious Admiral-underrating is going on itt.....
i really do idolize the admirals because of the way oda has portrayed them so far in the series. even in the new world, fujitora was introduced as a character who is clearly above of everyone in the entire arc despite being surrounded by many big names on the island. they just feel like an obstacle you would conquer near the end of the series, not so much at a mid point of the series.
you bring up good points with luffy being at that level and its hard to argue against it, especially since the low admiral level seems like such a favourable position for luffy to earn before he even considers scrapping with big mom or any yonkou in general.
in my opinion, if luffy somehow manages to overcome flamingo convincingly without assistance, then he can earn that low admiral status. right now it just seems so unlikely because flamingo seems ahead of luffy based on his feats so far. not taking anything away from luffy though because i still believe that he has some untapped potential that oda is hiding from us, waiting for the perfect moment to blow our fucking minds. this is why a new power up seems necessary now more than ever, preferably something that can overcome them OP strings.
them bitch ass strings is the only thing making flamingo seem clearly ahead of luffy IMO
it's not fair to use fujitora "wiping the floor with law" as justification tbh
first of all, it was basically DD + Fuji vs. Law
and second of all, wiping the floor the first time doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of _power level_
Crocodile literally wiped the floor with Luffy the first time, and Magellan took Luffy out due to his power
In both cases it wasn't a case of Luffy not being fast enough or his punches hitting hard enough, he just couldn't find a way to hit them properly
It's honestly why I was kicking myself for entertaining tobes' tiers lol...because there is almost no point
Oda rarely gives _power level_ information except in huge general terms (admirals > vice admirals, most of the time), and depending on various factors, like "how much you want it," and "what are you fighting for" and "how do your powers match up" etc. etc., the conversation changes entirely (I mean to say those "external" variables are much stronger in OP than say, DBZ)
first of all, it was basically DD + Fuji vs. Law
and second of all, wiping the floor the first time doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of _power level_
Crocodile literally wiped the floor with Luffy the first time, and Magellan took Luffy out due to his power
In both cases it wasn't a case of Luffy not being fast enough or his punches hitting hard enough, he just couldn't find a way to hit them properly
It's honestly why I was kicking myself for entertaining tobes' tiers lol...because there is almost no point
Oda rarely gives _power level_ information except in huge general terms (admirals > vice admirals, most of the time), and depending on various factors, like "how much you want it," and "what are you fighting for" and "how do your powers match up" etc. etc., the conversation changes entirely (I mean to say those "external" variables are much stronger in OP than say, DBZ)
TheValkyries
proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Look, I'm not gonna lie, I'm just going to out and say it; I think Luffy is the single strongest character in all of One Piece.
Now that may seem crazy to you but here's my reasons:
1. One Piece is a shounen.
2. Luffy is the Main Character
Now that may seem crazy to you but here's my reasons:
1. One Piece is a shounen.
2. Luffy is the Main Character
In regards to a power list, I'm very interested where each of the Super Rookies is located. We've seen a lot of Luffy and a good amount of Law, but I keep wondering more and more about where X Drake, Kid, Hawkins, and the like match up against people like Marco, Kizaru, and Borsalino. X Drake is a particular interest to me. He curbstomped Caribou, and I really wonder what role he's going to play in the future. Will he be an ally or adversary to the Straw Hats? What exactly is his connection to Kaido? I can't wait for these questions to be resolved :)
I don't really understand why people put big mom among the same level as the admirals or not in the top tier. We really haven't seen much of her yet, but there's a reason she's a Yonko and owns a great deal of territory. I'm intrigued to learn just how dangerous she is.
I don't really understand why people put big mom among the same level as the admirals or not in the top tier. We really haven't seen much of her yet, but there's a reason she's a Yonko and owns a great deal of territory. I'm intrigued to learn just how dangerous she is.
Still, look at how incredibly short that fight was compared to this recent one. Also, note that in this fight he was significantly injured, whereas the last fight he was at full power. You'll have to forgive me for assuming that Fujitora did most of the work.
No, none of that bullshit. Crocodile and Magellan were both many times better than Luffy when they fought, as evidenced by what happened when they fought on even ground. And even when Luffy had the wax and an army, he still couldn't put Magellan down, he still just ran away. In regards to Crocodile, saying that Luffy is better because he used water is like saying that Batman is better than Superman because he can use kryptonite. Hell, the Crocodile fight was arguably a draw, since Luffy would've definitely died without Robin's intervention.