Keldeo is really nice to bring in on stuff like Hippowdon, Gliscor & Landorus that Gothitelle is bad at trapping and just nuke the enemy team. Additionally, stuff like Vest Azu, Slowbro, Amoongus & MVenu that Lopunny lures in very well is easily dispatched with Gothitelle, paving the way for Keldeo to break the enemy team.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
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Playing further matches, have replaced Return with Facade on my bulky DD Mega Alt. There seem to be very few situations where the initial drop in power matters, and someone has tried to status, or inadvertently burned, my M-Altaria in virtually every match I've had. Facade lets it use Crobro and Bulky ZardX as setup fodder, in addition to being a pretty reliable Keldeo switch in - specs Icy Wind can't even 2HKO.
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What do you guys think about this Mbro set.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Rest
It's a crobro that works faster. It has enough Def to take 2 hits if you use rest but that will be occasional since you only use that when you get status' d. Plus it's gonna be harder to pp stall since it has 2 forms of recovery. The Pokémon that use status are usually weak hitting Pokémon so it will be easier to rest on them and for strong hitting pokes, you don't have to rely on rest talk.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Rest
It's a crobro that works faster. It has enough Def to take 2 hits if you use rest but that will be occasional since you only use that when you get status' d. Plus it's gonna be harder to pp stall since it has 2 forms of recovery. The Pokémon that use status are usually weak hitting Pokémon so it will be easier to rest on them and for strong hitting pokes, you don't have to rely on rest talk.
Having Rest and Slack Off is completely and utterly redundant... you don't even have sleeptalk
I explained why I have rest and slack off. you have instant recovery and that will be good against strong hitting mons that can 3 hit ko and weaker mons that try to status you will fail. In addition, you can set up much faster.
You can set up much faster when you put yourself to sleep for two turns, right...
You also lose coverage, and I read your "explanation" lmao. You should really go CroBro with RestTalk Scald and CM or CMBrowith CM Slack Off Scald and coverage.
Yeah Facade looks really good for Bulky DD Roost +2 attacks since your intent is to set up twice for crazy power and to make up for no speed investment, thus making you much more vulnerable to status since a wall can just switch-in and status you unabated. In contrast, Return or Double Edge looks better for an DD 3 attacks max speed. I like Double Edge over Return personally to make up for Mega Altaria's good but not great base 110 Attack stat.
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so a little of both i guess. yeah it sounds pretty potent, i'd probably use greninja but something tells me we won't be seein him around much longer
Here's some calcs I did during a game and I found it so hilarious that I need to post them here.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 148-176 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO
0+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 162-192 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
This guy did 48% to me with return and my rock slide did 46% back. I actually could not believe it when he said he didn't have any EVs in defence (barely a fucking 2HKO from adamant excadrill) and when he said he had a positive nature but no EVS in attack. He was mixed with max speed and special attack.
A mega mence with 0 EVs in attack (albeit a positive nature) does more damage on a resisted hit than an adamant excadrill does on a SE hit. LOL
I think I just found my teams new mega evolution.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 148-176 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO
0+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 162-192 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
This guy did 48% to me with return and my rock slide did 46% back. I actually could not believe it when he said he didn't have any EVs in defence (barely a fucking 2HKO from adamant excadrill) and when he said he had a positive nature but no EVS in attack. He was mixed with max speed and special attack.
A mega mence with 0 EVs in attack (albeit a positive nature) does more damage on a resisted hit than an adamant excadrill does on a SE hit. LOL
I think I just found my teams new mega evolution.
Mega Mence is totally going to rip a new one on the metagame. It has next to no real flaws.
Inb4 ShootingStarmie shares with us how Mega Mence is not broken.
thk u bby <3
also i have found a solution to this issue! instead of the IVs being 30 atk / 30 satk / 30 spd, change them to 30 def / 30 satk / 30 spd; keep the rest straight 31's. sceptile is so frail that the 1 def IV makes literally no difference wherease the atk it does, and you still have hp fire! you're welcome.
You must not understand me. Rest is not your main recovery, slack off is. The only time you use rest is if your toxiced and your low, you don't have you use rest if burned or paralyzed until you want to. It's faster to set up than rest talk bro because after you use slack off you can CM but with the rest talk you have to hope you get calm mind or hope you get scald depending on the situation. and also rest talk crobro has only scald as an attacking move.
No shit, it's only real flaw is SR weakness. Otherwise it's impossible to revenge kill at +1 unless you have Weavile lol, and that's assuming you're not behind a sub and about to OHKO that Weavile. It's retardedly bulky. It hits crazy hard. It's EXTREMELY versatile and it can go from Offensive DD, Bulky DD, Mixed, Wish passer, Defogger, it has perfect coverage too...
If we're gonna test Mega Salamence in OU, we might as well test Mega Rayquaza too.
Some people didn't read the title...
It's a pity that GF didn't buff M-Glalie a bit more, or min/max it like Beedrill.
Feh. I'd suggest a tiering philosophy thread for things like this b/c speculation about drops/bans continues to happen.
I don't like the idea of redundant recovery; besides, coverage on M-CroBro allows it to hit Suicune or its worst enemy/best counter, Cacturne (heh). The only circumstances under which Rest would be decent would be a resttalk M-CroBro set, but TBH M-Bro doesn't need its own protection from status; just run a cleric or GTFO when your opponent switches in a Toxic user.
Considering Garchomp's speed tier is being considered not as great as it used to be and the fact Glalie can't hold a scarf and it's megalution turn speed tier is shite, Glalie's speed is only "decent" for... I'm really reluctant to say 'wallbreaking' due to how horribly wrong I was on that subject last time (lol pedobreaker), and really it has like... one spammable attack. 120 attack with no boosts is only good in conjunction with it's ability and STAB for a mega, really, and the fact explosion's all it really has going for it leaves it very predictable, very limited and very outclassed. I've no doubt it'll wreck the lower tiers but here it just doesn't seem worth it imo. Hell I shit on mega beedrill all the time but I can say that thing has a hell of a lot more use than mega lolidie
edit: why did I say one spammable attack; explosion is like the exact opposite of spammable
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Been playing on the ladder for a bit and boy Mega Gallade can be quite the beast! One SD and I go to town on a lot of teams with Close Combat, Knock Off or Zen Headbutt. Unfortunately Mega Salamence spells my doom for my team almost every time he's on the opposing team. One Dragon Dance and it's almost always been GG after that. At this rate I'm gonna have to carry Weavile or Mamoswine and even then that's only a check at best.
I have a core :
Basically, 2/3rds of a FWG core. These two mons have amazing synergy together, and cover up each of their their weakenesses really well. MCamerupt is vulnerable to Water types and Ground types, particularly Keldeo, Azumarill, MGyara, Slowbro, Lando-I and Excadrill which Celebi can switch into without too much difficulty (Celebi even beats CroBro thanks to Nasty Plot). Celebi also hard counters Rotom-W which is a massive pain for MCamerupt since it's pretty much the only electric type it can't beat. In return, MCamerupt checks Steel types that like switching into Celebi like Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, as well as fire types like the Zards, Heatran, and Victini. Celebi is also fantastic at giving a free switches into MCamerupt thanks to Baton Pass, hopefully baiting in something it can take advantage of easily. Also, god help your opponent if you manage to pass a NP boost to Camerupt. Just pair this up with a bulky Water, preferably one that can take on the likes of Talonflame, Mamoswine, Greninja and Landorus-T and you have yourself a really solid FWG core, and you can make the rest of the team as Electric-weak as you damn please since no Electric type is ever going to be able to do anything to a team containing this corewith the exception of Earthquake+Flamethrower EVire
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
Basically, 2/3rds of a FWG core. These two mons have amazing synergy together, and cover up each of their their weakenesses really well. MCamerupt is vulnerable to Water types and Ground types, particularly Keldeo, Azumarill, MGyara, Slowbro, Lando-I and Excadrill which Celebi can switch into without too much difficulty (Celebi even beats CroBro thanks to Nasty Plot). Celebi also hard counters Rotom-W which is a massive pain for MCamerupt since it's pretty much the only electric type it can't beat. In return, MCamerupt checks Steel types that like switching into Celebi like Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, as well as fire types like the Zards, Heatran, and Victini. Celebi is also fantastic at giving a free switches into MCamerupt thanks to Baton Pass, hopefully baiting in something it can take advantage of easily. Also, god help your opponent if you manage to pass a NP boost to Camerupt. Just pair this up with a bulky Water, preferably one that can take on the likes of Talonflame, Mamoswine, Greninja and Landorus-T and you have yourself a really solid FWG core, and you can make the rest of the team as Electric-weak as you damn please since no Electric type is ever going to be able to do anything to a team containing this core
so about weavile and mamoswine being mega mence checks
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 286-343 (86.4 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 271-319 (96.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
No-one runs adamant weavile ever for obvious reasons and mega mence is obviously gonna have more attack and defence/hp investment than that
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 270-328 (81.5 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 283-334 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
oh look, megamence actually has a check that exists
no-onesayglalieis2g
252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 286-343 (86.4 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 271-319 (96.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
No-one runs adamant weavile ever for obvious reasons and mega mence is obviously gonna have more attack and defence/hp investment than that
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 270-328 (81.5 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 283-334 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
oh look, megamence actually has a check that exists
no-onesayglalieis2g
brb pairing this with crocuneI have a core :
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
Basically, 2/3rds of a FWG core. These two mons have amazing synergy together, and cover up each of their their weakenesses really well. MCamerupt is vulnerable to Water types and Ground types, particularly Keldeo, Azumarill, MGyara, Slowbro, Lando-I and Excadrill which Celebi can switch into without too much difficulty (Celebi even beats CroBro thanks to Nasty Plot). Celebi also hard counters Rotom-W which is a massive pain for MCamerupt since it's pretty much the only electric type it can't beat. In return, MCamerupt checks Steel types that like switching into Celebi like Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, as well as fire types like the Zards, Heatran, and Victini. Celebi is also fantastic at giving a free switches into MCamerupt thanks to Baton Pass, hopefully baiting in something it can take advantage of easily. Also, god help your opponent if you manage to pass a NP boost to Camerupt. Just pair this up with a bulky Water, preferably one that can take on the likes of Talonflame, Mamoswine, Greninja and Landorus-T and you have yourself a really solid FWG core, and you can make the rest of the team as Electric-weak as you damn please since no Electric type is ever going to be able to do anything to a team containing this corewith the exception of Earthquake+Flamethrower EVire
What's the general consensus on Mega Swampert and Rain Support? Should Rain be one of it's four moves or will it need to carry Politoed by the hip like Venusaur had to with Ninetails last gen?
Really down to preference; personally tho I find it better to run rain since unlike the venusaur example, sun ain't infinite anymore and swift swim won't activate on the turn of megalution, so it's a little awkward if you don't set it up yourself imo. I guess toed+pert is viable but eeeh... I dunno.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
I played with swamp a few times.on different teams and many thing work. I feel like Politoed is needed just like Rush Excadrill needs T-tar. Imo an all out attacker is the best paired with Politoed because 5 turns of rain + 1 to set up + less coverage isn't the best. Both an all rain team and only Poli + Swamp (like Exca + T-Tar) seems very frightening
Alomomola seems very useful here, checks all of the Pokemon you mentioned and passes Wishes to Camerupt.I have a core :
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
Basically, 2/3rds of a FWG core. These two mons have amazing synergy together, and cover up each of their their weakenesses really well. MCamerupt is vulnerable to Water types and Ground types, particularly Keldeo, Azumarill, MGyara, Slowbro, Lando-I and Excadrill which Celebi can switch into without too much difficulty (Celebi even beats CroBro thanks to Nasty Plot). Celebi also hard counters Rotom-W which is a massive pain for MCamerupt since it's pretty much the only electric type it can't beat. In return, MCamerupt checks Steel types that like switching into Celebi like Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, as well as fire types like the Zards, Heatran, and Victini. Celebi is also fantastic at giving a free switches into MCamerupt thanks to Baton Pass, hopefully baiting in something it can take advantage of easily. Also, god help your opponent if you manage to pass a NP boost to Camerupt. Just pair this up with a bulky Water, preferably one that can take on the likes of Talonflame, Mamoswine, Greninja and Landorus-T and you have yourself a really solid FWG core, and you can make the rest of the team as Electric-weak as you damn please since no Electric type is ever going to be able to do anything to a team containing this corewith the exception of Earthquake+Flamethrower EVire
Was thinking about SpD Rest-Talk Gyarados with T-wave would be decent for a more defensively oriented team, although you'll have probably still have trouble even with the Intimidate drop with some of those physical attackers. So I made some adjustments for the EV spread to make it more of a mixed Rest-Talk Gyara, and I got this.I have a core :
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
Basically, 2/3rds of a FWG core. These two mons have amazing synergy together, and cover up each of their their weakenesses really well. MCamerupt is vulnerable to Water types and Ground types, particularly Keldeo, Azumarill, MGyara, Slowbro , Lando-I and Excadrill which Celebi can switch into without too much difficulty (Celebi even beats CroBro thanks to Nasty Plot). Celebi also hard counters Rotom-W which is a massive pain for MCamerupt since it's pretty much the only electric type it can't beat. In return, MCamerupt checks Steel types that like switching into Celebi like Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, as well as fire types like the Zards, Heatran, and Victini. Celebi is also fantastic at giving a free switches into MCamerupt thanks to Baton Pass, hopefully baiting in something it can take advantage of easily. Also, god help your opponent if you manage to pass a NP boost to Camerupt. Just pair this up with a bulky Water, preferably one that can take on the likes of Talonflame, Mamoswine, Greninja and Landorus-T and you have yourself a really solid FWG core, and you can make the rest of the team as Electric-weak as you damn please since no Electric type is ever going to be able to do anything to a team containing this corewith the exception of Earthquake+Flamethrower EVire
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunder Wave
This dude checks those threats listed pretty damn well, assuming no rocks on your side of the field (even then, he's fairly solid).
You'll still only be 4HKO'd by anything Greninja normally runs like Ice Beam, or even Gunk Shot. Only exception is Grass Knot, but even with Max investment on your part, you'll still get 2HKO'd.
As for the physical threats listed, the Intimidate drop+Defense EVs make a big difference.
If you switch into Standard LO Mamo, Icicle Crash has a ~4% chance of 3HKO'ing you. Waterfall does a minimum of 70% back.
Switch into an Adamant Choice Band Talonflame's Brave Bird, and Lefties mean that it's a 3HKO (barely). Waterfall has a 56% of OHKO'ing back. Harder to check the Sharp Beak Swords Dance Set-if he goes for the Swords Dance on the switch (so he'll be at +1), Brave Bird has a 50% of OHKO'ing after rocks (it does 70-82% otherwise), while Waterfall is a 2HKO even with the highest damage rolls (84% minimum, 99.6% max). Honestly, if you have tanky Gyarados, hazards control has got to be there for you anyways.
Landorus-T fares slightly worse (and you beat Landorus-I just as well even with the decreased SpD investment, Psychic is still a 4HKO). You're a solid check if you switch into it. Bulky Landorus-T (so Impish, no Attack investment) 3HKO with Stone Edge when you switch in, and this is still true (due to Lefties) for Choice Scarf 252 Attack Landorus-T as well. Waterfall is a 3HKO (assuming you switch into Lando and that he doesn't switch in for some reason just to intimidate you) on Bulky Landorus-T, while it does 70-85% on Scarfed Lando's.
And T-Wave neuters the crap out of Greninja and Talonflame, so they'll probably pivot out, but you've done your job.
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