Metagame ORAS/XY PU (Serperior Banned)

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jeronipuff

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PU is seemingly one of the funnest metas right now I really hope it does become an official tier soon, I mean it seems like it is becoming one. Right now people are using a lot of offense but as all tiers do, it will probably become more stally wtih more new players and the top level players fighting for thier spot on the ladder. But seriously, good work guys on convicing the higher ups on making this an actual thing, I knew from the beginning of X&Y that there were going to be way too many Pokemon for the exsiting tiers and this new tier was greatly needed. :]
 
If you really want to use Regigigas, you're best off using this set. A Modest 252 Regigigas has 284 SpAtk while an Adamant 252 Regigigas has 230 Atk for the first 5 turns it's switched in.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave
 

ryan

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If you guys are unwilling to use checks and counters to Sneasel that aren't Poliwrath or Throh, no wonder it's giving you problems. And when you post calcs saying stuff like "with the right amount of hazards." No kidding something fast is unbeatable if you get up three layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock!! And most of the checks I posted were for the SD set, which is what I've seen by far the most complaining about.

Life Orb Sneasel is also a lot easier to handle with bulkier/defensive teams than SD anyways. I won't argue about it against offense because the only offensive team I've used (SmashPass) has little to no issues with it at all due simply to team composition and me preparing for it. But the idea of an offensive Pokemon making offense impossible to run seems odd to me.

You can't just dismiss checks and counters to something as bad and then move on. It's not like I'm asking you to use Wormadam-Trash to counter Jynx.
 
If you really want to use Regigigas, you're best off using this set. A Modest 252 Regigigas has 284 SpAtk while an Adamant 252 Regigigas has 230 Atk for the first 5 turns it's switched in.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave
The real purpose of my set was not to hit as hard as possible (as your suggested set would), but to intentionally use hax to troll my opponent. Basically, it's like a bottom-tiered version of flinch Togekiss or Jirachi, both of which are quite viable in their tiers. The main difference between my set and the mono attacking Return set is that mine also has flinching moves included. If the Pokemon were to be paralyzed, confused, and hit by a Regigigas using Rock Slide, there chances of attacking are next to none. Though it may have many faults, I still think it's at least worth a try.
 
SD Sneasel is not the threatening set, 4 attacks is, and a lot of your counter arguments don't make sense.

My calcs were entirely realistic with the most physically defensive spreads of Pokemon that should actually be running specially defensive ones. I dis not include max hazards, SR was the only one expected as a given, because it basically is a given considering PU has plenty of setters and almost every spinner struggles with spinblockers. Even max hazards wouldn't be unlikely in a very hazard-oriented tier, with maximum Spikes actually being a very plausible scenario. Your counters can't be great if they require spin / defog first.

SmashPass shouldn't struggle with Sneasel but many offenses do. Also your last statement doesn't make sense since you practically are suggesting niche shit, your only reliable counter barring Poliwrath and Throh is Monferno, and since after it takes Knock Off almost the entire tier can easily beat it, I think it qualifies as the Wormadam Trash to Sneasel.
 

WhiteDMist

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2. Sneasel is still very threatening: I said right before the tier shifts that Sneasel was a Pokemon to watch out for. The new shifts brought us little that can check or counter Sneasel, and in fact brought us two Pokemon that are threatened by it (Haunter and Gourgeist-XL). While we lost quite a few Grass-types that Sneasel threatened, that hasn't really diminished Sneasel's threat. Life Orb is just a great all-out-attacker, and many people are quite surprised by Sneasel's usable special bulk with Eviolite and get crushed by Swords Dance boosted moves. I expect many people are already hoping to suspect it, but I want everyone to play with and against it a lot more before making a rash decision.
Sneasel has proven to be a very threatening Pokemon as we all have stated. Great dual STABs, Knock Off's utility, priority, high Speed, and possibly Swords Dance in a tier with few perfect counters make it a definite Pokemon to prepare for. That being said, it has its own flaws that should be accounted for as well. I find that without Swords Dance, its power is just a bit lacking. Trying to set up a Swords Dance isn't exactly simple, even with Eviolite (it makes it significantly easier though). I honestly don't try to fit counters on my offensive teams, as I feel a few general checks and lures are more than enough to contain Sneasel. Something I enjoy is luring Sneasel in with a pivot Musharna and crippling it with Thunder Wave while it fails to OHKO with LO Knock Off. Once paralyzed, Sneasel is significantly less threatening. So let's not be hasty, because PU has only had a ladder for 2 days! Who knows what things will look like after a couple of weeks?
 
I play 50 games and get top 4 using stall. Lickilicky is just awesome, Wish, Heal Bell, inmunity to Taunt and is hard to take down, we have 2 relevant Fighting type in the tier and both are easy to wall with Gour-S and Garbo.
Avalugg is a good mon, ice-type sucks and had bad special bulk, bla bla, but him isn't supposet to take special hits, i use a full physical def set with roar and works just fine. Obviously, only run him for the spin.
The more threatening mon for Stall (or at least for me) was NP Chatot, i run soundproof Bastiodon only for him, and i trully hate Bastiodon...

Sneasel was ok, a good mon, but meh, him is just a late game cleanear and revenge killer, LO cannot take hits and eviolite has much less power.
I try LO 4 attacks this morning using a HO team, snes was cool vs other ofensive teams, but balance, bulky offense and stall can deal with him.

Fun meta, why this cannot be official? :c

If you really want to use Regigigas, you're best off using this set. A Modest 252 Regigigas has 284 SpAtk while an Adamant 252 Regigigas has 230 Atk for the first 5 turns it's switched in.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave
Try Chatot.
 
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I play 50 games and get top 4 using stall. Lickilicky is just awesome, Wish, Heal Bell, inmunity to Taunt and is hard to take down, we have 2 relevant Fighting type in the tier and both are easy to wall with Gour-S and Garbo.
Avalugg is a good mon, ice-type sucks and had bad special bulk, bla bla, but him isn't supposet to take special hits, i use a full physical def set with roar and works just fine. Obviously, only run him for the spin.
The more threatening mon for Stall (or at least for me) was NP Chatot, i run soundproof Bastiodon only for him, and a i trully hate Bastiodon...

Sneasel was ok, a good mon, but meh, him is just a late game cleanear and revenge killer, LO cannot take hits and eviolite has much less power.
I try LO 4 attacks this morning using a HO team, snes was cool vs other ofensive teams, but balance, bulky offense and stall can deal with him.

Fun meta, why this cannot be official? :c


Try Chatot.
Bastiodon already 4x resists both Normal & Flying, how many hit yourself do you need for chatot to beat it?
 
Bastiodon already 4x resists both Normal & Flying, how many hit yourself do you need for chatot to beat it?
bad experience with chatter, my luck sucks, hitting myself to dead for a bird with nasty plots. was a joke anyway, lickilicky was the one confused :c
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
I've been hovering around #1 for a while now (every once in a while Swagilyph attempts to wrestle it away from me :/) by using Stall and here are my impressions:

-The Spinners and defoggers in this tier are unbelievably ass. I literally went without a spinner on a stall team because I felt like I would get more mileage out of just running something thats actually going to win games rather than crippling my team to save some percent. As of so far, sticky web has been more of a threat to my team than Spikes and SR in terms of pressure, mostly because there's some things (like Marowak!) that are slow as molasses but hit really damned hard.

-Sneasel is probably a necessary evil for the meta. I really can't imagine what this tier would look like without it, and with Gourg-S probly being an A+ threat, it really needs to be around to kill the damn thing. It's not really that hard to counter if you're willing to make your team worse to beat it, but it's still threatening enough to where you can't mindlessly use some of the bulky mons that lose to it.

-Musharna is a fucking boss, but this point has been discussed fairly heavily in the last page already.

-Theres been a lot of discussion on how Poliwrath is a good mon without Sneasel around. TBH, no, it really isn't. If Sneasel wasn't around I'd drop it for something thats more relevant vs the meta. It just feels like a dead mon on a stall team, but you pretty much need it as you need something that can come in on sneasel multiple times without fail. It doesn't do well on offense anymore either since Gourg ends it.

-More people need to run Fire Blast Tauros. It's just too relevant now to skip. Drop Rock Slide or something, do you really need it?

-Licki is, as expected, a stall staple. It plays out exactly as anyone would imagine it does. Its also great support for Musharna so they can afford to run Dazzling Gleam, with Licki having Heal Bell.

-I hate using Garbodor, he's literally trash. But hey, at least he's a pretty good spiker, just wish he got Knock Off.

-Marowak really needs to have a real counter in this tier. Like. REALLY. Why does this thing learn Knock Off, that's not even fair.

-From an outside view, I'm guessing the prelim rankings were based on last month PU? It's just that most of like A through B+ is like flipped upside down now lol.

-I ran into a single Quilladin on the ladder, and it carried their entire team. That thing is a monster, probably the most underrated Pokemon in the entire meta. It gets Spikes, Taunt, is kinda fast (faster than a lot of other stall mons, and you have some room to creep), and just doesn't die. Not a whole lot of things can kill this, and out of them, Simisear is probably the only one that isn't piss easy to wall with other stallmons. Potentially a better Pokemon than Gourgeist if the meta shifts to something more defensive after the recent tier changes, and Gourg is already one of the best mons in the meta. Pair this thing with Haunter and/or Spinner and you basically cannot lose to a stall team. It's still a bulky grass with spikes vs offense and balance, so its not dead vs those teams either. Grats to whoever figured this monster out.
 
Dusclops is a terrible mon I completely knowwhy it's nu and that's because it has no offensive presence, no good recovery, bad defensive typing, and so many more thuings that are bad. Dusknoir isnt much better but it is better. Avalugg is not good in nu due to it's papaer thin special defense. Not to mention that lilligant is handled by a fire type such as Ninestales laughably easy. Why use meowstic when I coulduse something like purugly, having more speed and bulk. Mushy is really meh this gen with the knock off buff and sd gatr running around I mean it could be good in pu. Tangelawil lnot leave the tier but it will be good. Chatot is not gonna leave anytime soon since it's common knowledge to not bank on hax. Basculin is extremely outclassedby feraligatr. I don't really know about bouffalant and scyther but Samurott most likely will move up because people know it is a great wallbreaker. That is why these mons will not rise.
I, being a fan of dusclops think that your points about it being terrible are invalid. It has no offensive presence, true, but it can scare things away with will o wisp and offensive presence is not everything. Ever heard of a defensive pokemon? Ever heard of chansey? No good recovery.... Well it has pain split which with its massive bulk is useful and then it has access to rest talk. Bad defensive typing? Sure it is weak to knock off and ghost moves but there are virtually no ghosts in PU that can hurt it and there isn't too many knock off pokes.
 
Ok now i want to talk about a truly amazing Pokemon i haven't seen at all on the ladder but i feel like it has a lot of potential


Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp / Heal Bell
- Shadow Ball / Foul Play
- Pain Split

In a metagame in which Stall can run rampant this set is particularly good. With Taunt+Will-O-Wisp it can beat a great majority of the Pokemon commonly found in stall teams like this and at the same time protecting entry hazards (you are faster than all defoggers so just double switch and you are good, you can even run tbolt because fuck mantine) against balanced and offensive ones. If you run Toxic Spikes Heal Bell might be the better option but i like burning steel types and physical attackers so...
Foul Play is obviously an option too to smack Flareon looking to switch in and such. The only real problem is Knock Off but with Poliwrath support you can get easily around that.
 
I gave PU a try, people were saying it was really good and I tried out and I wasn't disappointed! This is a guy that I used and turned out being really deadly especially when accompanied by Sticky Web support!


@ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Earthquake

This set is self explanatory, Toxic Orb makes Guts activate which boosts its already high Attack by 1.5 and doubles Facade's BP into 140 which allows it to 2HKO most of the metagame. Crunch is for Ghost-types that are immune to Facade, Close Combat for Rock- and Steel-types and Earthquake can be used on the previously mentionned types if it's a guaranteed KO to avoid defenses drop, here is a replay to show how it works: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-160289728
 


Based Ferret (Linoone) @ Sitrus Berry / Silk Scarf
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Seed Bomb / Other
- Belly Drum

This thing is actually terrifying, and it hardly even minds being burned (I've swept teams with it while burnt). Come in on anything defensive, or that can't kill it, Belly Drum, click Extreme Speed. Obviously Shadow Claw is there for any ghosts you couldn't manage to take out prior, and Seed Bomb is just there for lack of a better move. This thing doesn't have much bulk, but the Sitrus Berry comes in handy for living a hit or two from a less offensive Pokemon or getting a few extra turns out of status damage if you have to.
 

Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Milk Drink
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide / Earthquake

This thing has been my MVP so far. Rock Slide + Horn Leech gets excellent coverage in PU, and with his great 123/62/81 bulk (aided by Bulk Up obviously) and usable 100 attack stat, it's really underrated at the moment. You can set up on a LOT of the metagame without fear, as basically every fire, flying, and bug type minus Camerupt is OHKOd by Rock Slide at +1. Give it a try!
 

Tricking

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Now, i'd like to mention two fantastic mons in the PU tier: Piloswine and Machoke. I used them in my team which worked pretty well.



Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Superpower / Stone Edge

This is an hazard lead which can't be taunted thanks to Oblivious. Earthquake and Icicle Spear are powerful STABS. Superpower and Stone Edge could be very useful vs Rotom-Frost, but Ice Shard is preferred for the priority.



Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

This mon is amazing. Dynamic Punch is used as a powerful STAB and to confuse the target. Knock Off is used for the Ghost Type switching-in. Ice Punch to hit Flying Types and Bullet Punch for the Priority. Dynamic Punch forces switches because of confusion-hax, so Machoke, thanks to the high Attack Stat and the Rocks, can easily provide some kills in every match.
 
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Now, i'd like to mention two fantastic mons in the PU tier: Piloswine and Machoke. I used them in my team which worked pretty well.



Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Superpower / Stone Edge

This is an hazard lead which can't be taunted thanks to Oblivious. Earthquake and Icicle Spear are powerful STABS. Superpower and Stone Edge could be very useful vs Rotom-Frost, but Ice Shard is preferred for the priority.



Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

This mon is amazing. Dynamic Punch is used as a powerful STAB and to confuse the target. Knock Off is used for the Ghost Type switching-in. Ice Punch to hit Flying Types and Bullet Punch for the Priority. Dynamic Punch forces switches because of confusion-hax, so Machoke, thanks to the high Attack Stat and the Rocks, can easily provide some kills in every match.
Oblivious? Seriously? I don't see much Taunters in PU...
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Now, i'd like to mention two fantastic mons in the PU tier: Piloswine and Machoke. I used them in my team which worked pretty well.



Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Superpower / Stone Edge

This is an hazard lead which can't be taunted thanks to Oblivious. Earthquake and Icicle Spear are powerful STABS. Superpower and Stone Edge could be very useful vs Rotom-Frost, but Ice Shard is preferred for the priority.



Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

This mon is amazing. Dynamic Punch is used as a powerful STAB and to confuse the target. Knock Off is used for the Ghost Type switching-in. Ice Punch to hit Flying Types and Bullet Punch for the Priority. Dynamic Punch forces switches because of confusion-hax, so Machoke, thanks to the high Attack Stat and the Rocks, can easily provide some kills in every match.
Thick Fat is way better on Piloswine: Taunt isn't very common in PU, and the neutrality to Fire and the resistance to Ice Thick Fat brings are just too good to pass up for something as bulky as Piloswine.
 

fran17

(1999)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Now, i'd like to mention two fantastic mons in the PU tier: Piloswine and Machoke. I used them in my team which worked pretty well.



Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Superpower / Stone Edge

This is an hazard lead which can't be taunted thanks to Oblivious. Earthquake and Icicle Spear are powerful STABS. Superpower and Stone Edge could be very useful vs Rotom-Frost, but Ice Shard is preferred for the priority.



Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

This mon is amazing. Dynamic Punch is used as a powerful STAB and to confuse the target. Knock Off is used for the Ghost Type switching-in. Ice Punch to hit Flying Types and Bullet Punch for the Priority. Dynamic Punch forces switches because of confusion-hax, so Machoke, thanks to the high Attack Stat and the Rocks, can easily provide some kills in every match.
I laddered for a bit and all the taunter i saw were Monferno and Kricketune, that lose the 1v1 againist Piloswine, so Thick Fat is a better choice for the ability
 
While Thick Fat is way better, the statement that there are few Taunters in PU isn't really accurate. Aside from running an offensive Defogger (read: Swanna), using fast Taunt mons is the best way to stop offensive teams from being demolished by Sticky Web. Even with Samurott gone, there are still plenty of good fast Taunt mons to help against webs, especially since Kricketune only has base 65 Speed (Leavanny is faster but Kricketune is much better in general for several reasons, like Taunt, Knock Off, Endeavor, and most importantly its cry). My personal favorite is Taunt Dodrio. Dodrio really only needs its STAB moves and Knock Off to function well, and because its only other usable option in the 4th slot is Roost, Taunt is pretty useful on it. (If only it got Defog RIP ;_;) Others include CM Taunt Serperior, Mr. Mime (though it doesn't really like losing a moveslot), and random stuff like Glaile. There's also Kricketune itself which counts too. Granted, that isn't that many, but Taunt is still a great, underrated move in PU.
 
While Thick Fat is way better, the statement that there are few Taunters in PU isn't really accurate. Aside from running an offensive Defogger (read: Swanna), using fast Taunt mons is the best way to stop offensive teams from being demolished by Sticky Web. Even with Samurott gone, there are still plenty of good fast Taunt mons to help against webs, especially since Kricketune only has base 65 Speed (Leavanny is faster but Kricketune is much better in general for several reasons, like Taunt, Knock Off, Endeavor, and most importantly its cry). My personal favorite is Taunt Dodrio. Dodrio really only needs its STAB moves and Knock Off to function well, and because its only other usable option in the 4th slot is Roost, Taunt is pretty useful on it. (If only it got Defog RIP ;_;) Others include CM Taunt Serperior, Mr. Mime (though it doesn't really like losing a moveslot), and random stuff like Glaile. There's also Kricketune itself which counts too. Granted, that isn't that many, but Taunt is still a great, underrated move in PU.
Yeah, I saw a Taunt Dodrio, but this move isn't used as is needed(it can stop SSmash, most of stall pokes and some hazard users), so Oblivious isn't a good choice, but if the Meta changes that could be a cool option(if they don't ban Pilo :P).
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Luckily, that Piloswine is only prevented from setting up Stealth Rock if it gets Taunted. If it were a more supportive set with Toxic and/or Roar, then Oblivious might make more sense.

Plus, that Pilo can beat Dodrio, Serperior, Glalie, and frail-ass Mr. Mime (common-ish Taunters) so they would be reluctant to stay in and Taunt it anyway.
 
I finally peak #1, GG dudes c:
Some impressions:
I was testing Tauros, a great mon (possible rank A+ or even S); Fire Blast is decent at least, can 2HKO Physically defensive Gour-Super with rocks up (but the special version is better and more common), the last slot is just a filler anyway.

LO Rapidash with Morning sun is pretty cool, a good counter for Gour and has good coverage (FB, Wild Charge and Low Kick hit super efective more than half tier).

Sub LO Chatot with Stabs and HP Fight is hard to deal with, die fast but can create many holes, and also is hard to revenge kill and chatter can be annoying as hell.
 
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