Please don't discuss the prelim rankings in this thread by the way. We're posting them as a general resource to help quality. We'll have a proper viability thread in due time
Once Sneasel leaves, I fully believe Musharna is gonna skyrocket into the same level of brokenness many see Sneasel as. Once Sneasel goes, literally nothing in the tier can handle it and not be deadweight outside of doing so (except maybe bae Scraggy, haven't tested yet). I'm actually terrified for if we ever decide to ban Sneasel.One Pokemon I've been having a bit of trouble beating recently is Musharna. Despite the fact that Sneasel is a thing and is absurdly broken, Musharna is still a very difficult mon to take down. This is thanks in large part because we lost Exeggutor and Pangoro, Sneasel will more than likely be banned at some point, and the fact that out of the few offensive mons that have super effective STAB on it are all either crippled by paralysis or OHKOed by Psychic, not to mention the fact that none of them can do more than 75% to it with a single attack (These are Sneasel, Haunter, and Mightyena; pretty much no other offensive darks and ghosts exist). So outside of the living legends Scraggy and Krokorok, what do you guys think can actually handle Musharna effectively?
Also linking the viability rankings again because the ladder was seriously awful (I saw way more Ninjask than I did Tauros, Musharna, Purugly, Kricketune, Garbodor, and Poliwrath combined looool (ninjask is still awful in this tier, so are regigigas, slaking, and shedinja; don't even bother e.e)
http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.Wn9lfLPl24W/latest
Plz Avalugg has a pretty huge Defence an good HP...Avalugg is complete garbage, Monferno is absurdly niche outside of beating Sneasel, leaving the only good counter to be Poliwrath, which is easily walled and hates losing its lefties.
That Ice typing and wet-toilet-paper Special Defense, though.Plz Avalugg has a pretty huge Defence an good HP...
Yeah Musharna is pretty a god in this tier, that thing can't die. But Sneasel owns it.Ok i think drops have been talked enough and i don't have much to say bar how disappointed am i after i have seen that Leafeon left the tier.
On stuff i have used a bit on the ladder
Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Moonlight
Ok this pokemon is simply amazing. After it gets 2-3 boosts it becomes very hard to stop for bulkier teams thanks to its awesome bulk on both sides and self healing capabilities meaning if you don't have something like Sneasel or Scyther you are kinda screwed. If your team has a cleric you can opt to run a coverage move like Dazzling Gleam, Psyshock or some Hidden Power but the set above is more standalone.
Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baton Pass
- Thunder Wave / Toxic / Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Moonlight
This Musharna is more of a pivot for Balance and bulky offensive teams and is very useful to spread status around and to give free switches to your offensive Pokemon.
This set deals very well with physical attackers like Tauros who just get statused and Moonlight stalled and can switch into almost any non super effective move lol
This isn't OU, there aren's so many fking Steel and Fire type... if u want to get raped by a Sneasel it's your fault.That Ice typing and wet-toilet-paper Special Defense, though.
It's literally been addressed a thousand times that PU doesn't stand for anything, but refers to how the mons in the tier stinks. Please stop redirecting actual tier discussion back to this trivial matterPU stand sfor PerfectlyUsed, PoorlyUsed, PersonallyUsed, PainlesslyUsed, PainfullyUsed, PatrioticallyUsed, PiteoslyUsed, PatheticallyUsed???
We need a Poll for this. NOW.
No they aren't? I covered like nine different checks in my post, and then I even offered a couple of good lures. None of those counters are niche Pokemon except for maybe Monferno, but I'm not the one hyping it up in this thread. You just have to learn different ways to beat it outside of using Poliwrath on every team, and you don't even need to use physically defensive Poliwrath because offensive sets like SubPunch handle it just fine.I think a larger sample size of games will change your mind, Treecko. For one, while Poliwrath is a good Pokemon on its own, being forced to run it to not get demolished by Sneasel is kind of bad, especially when heaps of Poliwrath lures exist such as Shell Smash HP Grass Carracosta. Specifically offensive teams are often shoehorned into running defensive Poliwrath which isn't completely suboptimal, but it does give up momentum in many cases. Another thing is that mant of those supposed counters are either absurdly niche outside of "countering" Sneasel, can barely counter it anyway with hazards and some of their lack of recovery, and ones like Monferno hate losing Eviolite. Barely any Sneasel use SD as the standard 4 attacks sef covers a huge pool of Pokemon. Sneasel lures are a thing (I've used HP Fighting Musharna), but by tanking that Knock Off you get forced out by the next Pokemon and then the next Pokemon Musharna checks has a much easier time. I'm very sure I'm the most conservative member of the council and if it comes to Musharna, I'll likely vote DNB if only due the PP of Moonlight. I was even not sure about Sneasel yesterday, however I had a conversation with Magnemite where I basically realised myself that Sneasel was broken, and my vote will not change from Ban after my experiences playing PU.
Honestly, I think SD is really sub-optimal on Sneasel since it makes you give up a valuable coverage move or Ice Shard just for a setup move that will rarely even be of use because it can be really hard to set Sneasel up. I'd rather just 2HKO the entire tier aside from Poliwrath and a couple of other things without even needing to setup.double posting now that I've had a chance to play more
I'm not sure why everyone hates dealing with Sneasel so much. Of the three games I've lost so far, Sneasel was only a problem in one of them, and the only reason why I had problems with it in that game is because the opponent put too much pressure on my Poliwrath. I realize that it sounds stupid for me to say Sneasel isn't an issue while I've been using Poliwrath, but:
1. I'd be using Poliwrath even if Sneasel was banned. It has so many things going for it in this metagame. Aside from Throh, it is the only relevant Fighting-type in the metagame, which makes it an auto-include on lots of teams. It is also by far the best answer to Carracosta and Barbaracle, both of which would likely be really nasty without Poliwrath around. And it is one of the only Rock resists in PU that doesn't get fucked up by Ground-type coverage. Poliwrath also has Circle Throw to phase, which is great for bulkier teams, especially alongside the fantastic Garbodor.
2. I also played a bit with SmashPass and had no problems with Sneasel there.
Sometimes you have to think outside of the box to handle Sneasel, but there's nothing wrong with that. I was using Wigglytuff on my SmashPass team, and it handled Sneasel just fine. One thing that people seem to be forgetting is that Sneasel can't run Swords Dance, Ice Punch, Ice Shard, and Low Kick (unless it forgoes Knock Off lol). A lot of the Sneasel I have seen have been using Swords Dance / Ice Shard / Knock Off / Low Kick, and that set is handled fine by physically defensive Togetic, Wigglytuff, Poliwrath, Pelipper, probably Prinplup (was thinking about trying this) and Marshtomp, Carbink, Monferno, Throh, etc. There are lots of good checks out there, but you have to be willing to play around with unconventional Pokemon to fit a good check onto every team unless you're willing to use Poliwrath every time you play PU.
Other things can lure Sneasel in just fine. Musharna can easily take one Knock Off and hit back with Signal Beam or Dazzling Gleam. Gogoat is really fat and can take a hit before striking back with Rock Slide or Horn Leech. You don't always hard wall this thing, but plenty of Pokemon can take a hit and kill it in return. Of course, you can't always switch these Pokemon in, but there are better counters out there anyways.
I don't think anything is outright ban-worthy, but Musharna is pretty close. I ran into some issues with Bastiodon while using Musharna, but aside from that, not many Pokemon can immediately pressure Musharna before setting up, and once it does, it's even harder to do anything against it. Thankfully, Toxic can put it on a timer if it isn't running Heal Bell, and even if it is, Metang and Bastiodon can easily stall it out of its 8 Heal Bell PP and spam Toxic against it. And if it doesn't have Heal Bell, Toxic handles it well enough because it usually doesn't offer enough immediate pressure to pose a huge threat before dying.
I just think this is a really balanced metagame. Some things work really well and force you to prepare for them while teambuilding, but it wasn't anything I ever felt I couldn't handle.
Also, I'm top 25 on the ladder now. B) Come at me boys.